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Osprey for the win!

You are correct. Vahl wasn't a High Lord at the time of Guilliman's return and wasn't even among those he initially picked as replacements. Presumably, she wound up filling one of the slots later opened up during the Hexarchy crisis, which took place some time after Guilliman left on the Indomitus Crusade.

Spent this afternoon doing a test model for my Deathguard project. I'm really happy with how its come out so far. Still paralyzed about what to do for their bases, but at least the models are going to look great!

@The Pounder- thanks for the kind words, WiP FireBlade - trying to make a hex type camo cloak, it turned out ok I think Cheers M

Chapter master Ryoto in Tacticus armor

That is how it's currently come to be portrayed, in recent Black Library novels. A weirdly serene, above-it-all, in-group. If the model team ignores all that, though, and decides to make an Emperor's Children release "the Noise Marine army" (in the same way that the other three [Cult Legions] have been implemented as "the [Cult Troop] army"), then the fiction editors can't run in and veto it. The fiction will just change (back). (Not saying that's what will happen, but just stressing that GW doesn't really respect its own canon.) // I mentioned elsewhere, but I really think the concept of Noise Marines have been (hopefully not) irrevocably hurt by a lack of models. Like, looking at it: 1991: the original Emperor's Children Marine (at least once labelled as a Noise Marine) with speaker faces, studded leather, etc. 1991: the original Noise Marine comes out alongside the D-Rok album Oblivion (which includes the song Noise Marines). It's a gimmicky (and awesome) Slaanesh marine with a guitar. 1996: a Noise Marine release consisting of three bodies, three heads, a backpack, a Sonic Blaster, a Blastmaster, a Power Claw arm, and a Chainsword arm. 2002: an Emperor's Children Lord (with combat drugs, studs, speaker faces, face speaker, and one heck of a Doom Siren). 2002: an upgrade kit with: three heads, one torso, one Power Weapon arm, one Doom Siren, one Sonic Blaster, one Blastmaster. 2013: FW's resin Kakophoni for 30k (who are mainly wearing fancy-but-standard MkIV, with tabards, a cool gun design, and five super-cool heads.) 2019: a remake of the 1991 Noise Marine. And like, that's it. You haven't been able to buy Noise Marines that look like their artwork in twenty years. Is it any wonder that Emperor's Children players drifted away from them? // In verifying a couple of those years, I stumbled upon a couple unreleased c2002 (I assume) Emperor's Children models, and now I'm a mix of grumpy (that they never came out) and happy (hope for the future).

Yea that does sound awesome. And really that was my favourite combo with Ultras which I feel like may do it better, because I’d have Calgar leading it. I always started it on the board and advanced constantly. The extra AP and twin linked fists really allowed this combi to often carry my Ultras. But this does sound very cool. And definitely unique to Space Wolves which is what I really love. this begs the question; what are you doing for shooting options. My competitive meta has definitely shifted to vehicles / monsters and a decidedly heavy bias to shooting.

@Inquisitor_Lensovenyou say that, but I've had them put the hurt on some tough targets. You need to go whole hog with the. (10 + SPriest, though a captain is optional) or not at all.

I would also argue that most of those novels could have the elements of overall setting changes scaled back and still be just as good. 40k worked a lot better as a galactic wide setting where almost anything could happen, rather than a universe were apparently nothing happens at all without involving 1 of like 3 people.

Dark City didn't advance a single thing. It's a lore blurb from the Ad Mech codex of years ago. Cawl is a trash addition. The Night Lords series, and Wrath of Iron are better than anything in the last decade.

I wouldn’t mind a 3 man squad for VVs if they made them actually good in melee again. as it stands now all they’re good for is clearing chaff

Well, AoS has the Twinsouls/Painbringers to look at, although I'm not sure how that translates to space marines.

I disagree with this. The two Cawl books Watchers of the Throne The Dark City All of the above are advancing the story in the most current timeline. These are easily some of the best stories I've read in the 40k setting, keep in mind I've been eating the lore up since the 90s.

Also got my chapter master's other shoulder. I'm putting the master of the chapter metal mini on a 40mm base with his original base. Hopefully it works OK.

Completely disagree. All the best fiction came from when it was a setting, not a story. The current path GW is on is a failed one. Meta plots suck.

I could see SG going that way, but i doubt DC will. I really hope VVets don't too.

So, I've been toying with the idea of creating a vaguely fluffy 2000pts list for my chapter (see sig for their IA), but keeping them vaguely competitive. For it to work, I've made them 'Ultramarines' running the Vanguard Spearhead. The list (ordered so you can see who is with who): "Marneus" (185) with Bladeguard Vets (180) and Judiciar (70) - Target of 'Master of the Fleet' from "Ventris" "Ventris" (75) with Tactical Squad (Plasma Gun x2) (140) Apothecary Biologis (+Blade Driven Deep) (80) with Eradicators (190) Lieutenant w/ Combi-Weapon (+Shadow War Veteran) (100) Tactical Squad (Plasma Gun x2) (140) Devastator Squad (5 marines) (2x Heavy Bolter, 2x Multi-melta) (120) Infiltrators (Helix & Comm Array) (100) Repulsor Executioner (220) with Devastator Squad (5 marines) (2x Lascannon, 2x Grav Cannon) (120) Whirlwind (180) Callidus Assassin (100) Total = 1995pts The general concept is that "Marneus" and cohort jump into the midfield to secure an objective and provide a decent combat threat, supported by the heavy firepower of the Repulsor and the Devastators. "Ventris" follows up with his Tactical squad, the other Tactical Squad, and the second Devastator Squad. The Apothecary and his Eradicators jump in and can threaten other units. The Whirlwind and Infiltrators guard home and provide indirect fire, whilst the Callidus and Combi-Lieutenant do secondaries and provide annoyance. I'm contemplating changing the Biologis' unit from Eradicators to Flame Aggressors and a Scout Squad. Anyone have any thoughts? Am I going massively wrong somewhere? Thanks in Advance for any feedback!

More or less, yeah. And objectively the game is less complex, even as its bloated with extraneous rules. That isnt opinion, a lot of movement and decision making forks have been removed. Whether that's a good thing or not is of course a matter of opinion. Vehicle facings, scatter templates, only charging what you shoot, and only with pistol/assault weapons, consolidate movement, game length, etc, theres a lot, are all complexities that are gone now. Some of that can be placed at the feet of nostalgia for some of us old timers, in other cases its, imo, the game actually being worse, with 5th often being considered the high water mark. Especially compared to the editions immediately afterward, 6th and 7th almost killed the game. I don't miss, for example, the finicky night fighting rules, or playing against guard wyverns with 4 small blast templates, all rerollable, but vehicle facings and slightly abstracted LoS is way better than "the antennae of my tank is visible over this wall, so for all purposes it's fully visible and can shoot all its guns" (Feels weird to call myself an old timer, I just turned 30, but I have been playing since 4th edition, I started real young with my Dad)

Sort of. I'd say it's like Chess, but...bigger. You used to have pawns, Knights, Rooks, Bishops, a Queen and a King; everything was useful in different ways with some more useful than others, but you could have any piece make a major move and suddenly the game shifted, making that moment memorable - now you've got Big Queens, and then you've got Biggest Queens on top of that. Sure, you can bring your pawns and Rooks to play, but when someone brings their Big Queens, you need to have an answer for them or, well, you get stomped on because Big Queens can't realistically be hurt by Rooks (Bishops can, but it takes a bunch of them); and if they bring a Biggest Queen, well you'd better have your own Big Queens, or at least a heap of Bishops and Queens to stand a chance. Basically - Knights, Primarchs and Titanic units in general skew the game upwards, away from the smaller, more individual units of the game/setting. When you're fighting armies of Knights, it's harder to play with the smaller units because you need the firepower to bring them down; and as you escalate the scale of the individual units, the scope of the game is similarly 'zoomed out' if you will. Where previously you might have a single Tactical Squad make a significant play in a battle and that makes for a memorable game - it's much harder for that to happen now, because realistically a single Tactical Squad isn't going to acheive anything noteworthy since the scale of the battle has increased to the point that individual units really aren't all that relevant unless they're a Queen, Big or Biggest. It's still possible, but it's much rarer - that unit of Guardsmen holding in the face of a unit of Chaos Terminators might happen, but it happened rarely enough before the scale increased; and now even if they manage to just survive against the Chaos Terminators, well there's still a Knight to deal with, so now their maybe noteworthy acheivement just isn't that important. And while things like OC sort of even out the playing field of some units being valuable and others not, well it actually hurts the little guys: previously, that one last, stoic Guardsman that survived the onslaught of Knight and Terminators might actually hold the objective, but now that last guy is out-OC'd anyway, so they lose the objective. Fundamentally, the game has shifted in scale to the point that the little guys are out of focus, and in the process of this zooming out we lose some of the characterisation we could previously get - there's still some, but it's harder to grasp when there are a dozen fights across a game, or when units just get outright deleted with ease in a single unit's shooting. Primarchs and Knights are cool in their own ways, but they have increased the scale of the game (whether someone likes that or not is entirely up to that person of course). Some of us feel that this increased scale is not actually beneficial (and in varying ways for different folks: some don't like the game balance part where armies need answers for these balancing-skewing units; some the lore aspect where Primarchs should have remained as mythic figures so far away from the current day that they may not even be real, instead of being characters that interact with the setting and in turn warp it further; and so on).

I just hope DC, Sang Guard and Vanguard don't get turned into 3 man squads on 40mm bases.

I wouldn't be shocked by purple and gold, but I think it would be darker (more like the Painting Guide: Slaanesh I mentioned): On the other hand, the Chosen box art and the Eternal animation do make me think that black and pink have good odds of sticking around.

It would be interesting to see humans with a conqueror/explorer mindset instead of the more defensive Imperial Guard. The Angel of Fire books were of like that.

So essentially, if I’m understanding it correctly, the game has shifted from something more akin to a tactical strategy game (maybe something like chess, or Stratego) where the decisions you made felt meaningful to something more like “I win because I have the hardest hitting, most durable units.” or at least, that’s the view the dissenting opinion holds. The game has been simplified, decisions matter less, and tactical acumen is no longer as important as a data sheet?

I skimmed your list and instead of nickel and diming every detail, I'll just leave a few tid-bits that I've learned. First thing is that if your squad isn't maxed, it's probably not worth taking a character in them. DC are a notable exception for the OC issues, but don't go overboard with 5man+chappy units. One troubleshooting unit will do. The other notable exception is Assault Ints with captain. Whereas all other SM leaders are primarily there to buff the squad, the AI+cap combo flips this dynamic on its head as they are there to guard the captain and sergeant, so they get a pass. Next is that BA have no way to buff shooting. This is not to say that you shouldn't take shooting units, only that there are certain other detachments that simply do it better. The shooty units we have pretty much have to rely on the strength of their datasheet, because that's all they've really gotten. The last general thing is that slow melee units (movement less than 8") without a delivery system will regularly disappoint. My only specific item is this: VanVets are only worth it in squads of 10 while accompanied by a SPriest. The Priest's high (even higher as of today) points cost makes him prohibitive for squads that aren't maximizing his benefits. I say this as someone who runs them regularly. I also like adding a captain to my vanvets, but that's just preference. You don't have to. Edit: Jump DC with boltguns are way too expensive for what they do.

Amazing paint jobs!