BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I love to see the furries have their arses handed to them. Beautiful !! G :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 With LD 10 and a melta bomb in the unit you didn't exactly have good odds on that tank shock! Nope!! Not at all! 1/3 chance of succeeding (1 or a 3 out of 6 options) after the (very likely) pen. But, it was a chance I needed to take as it was all I had. The MB was also directly in front of the Razor - so i couldnt have avoided it. Luckily it paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Game 5 - Capture Control - Pitched Battle Opponent - Grey Knights Coteaz 8 Purifiers - 4 Halbers, 2 Psycannons, Hammer Rhino Vindicare 10 Strike Squad Marines - Psybolt, 2 Psycannons, Hammer Rhino 10 Strike Squad Marines - Psybolt, 2 Psycannons, Hammer Rhino 3 Warriors Psy-back 3 Warriors Psy-back 3 Warriors Psy-back 3 Warriors Psy-back Psy-fleman dread Psy-fleman dread Psy-fleman dread ***** I had a test game with Gareth and his GKs, and had beaten him even though I had lost mephy in the 2nd turn, and without effect. I knew at least I had a chance to outplay him. I set up my razor on my objective in the bottom left, mephy and bikers on far right flank, and DC and Corbs mid field. With the VV and jumpers coming in later. More spread out than I usually like, but with strong attack options on his objective. I was hoping to take the fight to him, and keep him on that side of the board. Unlucky for me, he seized!! He knows how I rock my bikers, and went about targeting them with impunity with the dreads - knowing a failed save meant a popped biker. I list one on each side, and a few damage results on vehicles, but nothing too heavy. In my turn, i tried to move up where I could, mephy failed wings, so had to walk and then do a quick run up as far as possible. I took 4 shots at his vindy, with double S weapons - 3 in total wounded, and he passed all three 3+ saves. In his second turn, he continued moving, splitting his forces quite considerably, a small contingent going around my left flank, to intercept my objective, and then a bigger contingent on the right, where mephy and DC were closer to. He immobed my DC rhino, took a weapon off my Razor, and managed to take out more bikers. In my turn, it was time to launch the counter offensive! The VV came down, and combat squadded, ready to take out two psy-backs on the far right flank. The RAS came down on the left, blocking the oncoming path of the 2 Psybacks, dread and Rhino Strike squad there. Mephy got wings off- and headed straight for the Dready on the right, supporting the VV. I immobed the one Psyback, Blew up another, and beat all the weapons off the dready. DC, stayed in the rhino for a turn. I also boosted corbs razorback within 6" of the RAS, who had blown up a psy-back with meltaguns. I prepped for the counter. Fight was ON! I took a bit of shooting on the left, and on the right, my 2x5man VV got targeted by both purifiers and strikes. I had 2 men left in the one squad, and 1 in the other. Mephy made short work of the dread and moved forward towards the near 20 GKs. In my 3rd turn, I prepped another counter. My jumpies moved up, to engage the strikes, and corbs got out of the razor to join them and help out with the combat. I had positioned them in such a way that I'd get off a multicharge on the 3 warriors too, allowing me to up my combat resolution numbers nicely. The DC thought it high time to get out of the rhino, and did, and moved aroudn the small ruin the vindy was hiding on. (They wound up boltering him to death :tu: ) The RAS with corbs stayed in the razor and moved up to take a melta shot on the dread that was walking towards my objective. They missed :P Mephy and the VV was a tough call. I knew I was in trouble there. See, if I charged one, the other would counter and destroy Mephy. Instead, what I did was, I got the 2man VAS up, and positioned them to do a double charge, and a single charge with mephy on the Troops This would mean that I would lock both units in combat, and only take whatever wounds mephy took +2 from the VAS. The VAS weant down without contest, but Mephy did a whole bunch of wounds on the Strikes, and only took 1 in return from the hammer. (I also blocked the FW). The Purifiers passed their LD check, but....the Strikes did not - and since I was in combat, I couldnt chase, and since they were on the board edge, they were gone. I had now cleared that entire flank of Troops and the game would essentially be fought on the bottom right, for my objective- and my opponent would be fighting for the draw. Corbs and the guys were fighting out on the other side. They had taken melta shots and pistol shots going in, thinning out the strikes, and then engaging the remnants. The charge saw the majority of guys get taken out and combat locked in. The next 2 turns was some of the most intense and harrowing nailbiting moments ive had in a while. The dread on the left joined the fray with corbs and the jumpy ras remnants. The other dread charged the 5man and started thumping away. Mephy killed off Coteaz, but in turn got FWed to death. The DC then moved up and started killing what they could. I had 1 strike marine to kill, and my powerfist missed in 3 combat phases, time was running out and the dread in the center was slowly whittling down my 5man squad. Corbs started beatin on the dread on the left, but to no avail. Finally my powerfist killed the last strike squad and could now start wailin on the dread. My enemy now had only 1 3man razorback squad left as scoring and mobile. I used my razor to block off the path to the objective and had dedicated the last VAS member to the dread killing the 5man RAS in the center - he killed them both and moved forward towards my objective. The game went on another turn (6th). His center dread edged even closer to my objective, chosing to not risk the run (maybe 3-4+ needed) and instead took shots at the razor blockin the way, hoping for another turn so he could contest with the razor. in his 6th turn, Corbulo got his vengeance and his rending chainsword took out the dread, the RAS were free -melta and PF in tow! Corbs moved to engage the razor, while the ras moved up to shoot and engage the dread. The RAS meltad the dready and immobed him. That was all i needed for now (the DC at the top were busy eating through purifiers and their transports). The game ended in 6th tun with me on my objective, and an immobed dread a few inches from the objective, as well as a razor squad a near way away! Victory to the BA ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Top 20 for those interested! 1. IG 2. Dark ELdar 3. CSM 4. Blood Angels 5. CSM 6. Daemonhunters 7. Daemonhunters 8. Chaos Daemons 9. CSM 10. Eldar 11. Orks 12. Eldar 13. Space Wolves 14. Blood Angels 15. Black Templar 16. Chaos Daemons (girl player :tu: ) 17. Chaos Daemons 18. Daemonhunters 19. CSM 20. Blood Angels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I accidentally posted up in the list forum and not here. I thought after last year's Nationals thread that Mephy was deemed a crutch that was going to be retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I accidentally posted up in the list forum and not here. I thought after last year's Nationals thread that Mephy was deemed a crutch that was going to be retired. He was retired for quite a while. I started using Dante, regular libbies and astorath ! After much discussion from friends however, it was clear that Mephy suited my particular style of lists- without him the lists actually just folded. Reason being he added to the armour saturation of a generally unsaturated list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 How did you like the DC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 How did you like the DC? They were super stars, Glendor. It's unlikely i'll go into battle without them ever again. (barring rule changes) They're consistent and solid. They don't require a priest, and as a result suit my playstyle well (since I only use one priest at 1750). They're not scoring, so, you can really afford to throw them at the enemy and get stuck in if need be. Only really didn't do anything game changing in the 5th game, where their Rhino was immobed, and I kept them in for a turn. I'll post my finals game vs guard in a bit, and you can read about their last heroic stand!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Final Game - Dawn of War, Annihilation. Opponent: Luca (Current ranked SA number 1)- IG Command Squad- MG, Astropath Chimera - stubber Marbo Junior Platoon - MG Chimera - stubber 3 Lascannon Team 3 Lascannon Team Platoon squad- MG Platoon squad- MG Veteran - (1?2?) Flamer Vendetta - HB Vendetta - HB Vendetta - HB 2 Russes 2 Hydras 1 Medusa -hullbreacher (possibly enclosed crew) ***** Luca and I always play each other at tournaments. The guys down here dont figure to change their list to beat him so, they just get blown away when they face him. As a result, we always wind up facing up either 5th game, or 6th game. I also make sure any tournament I go into, my list is able to take his. I was in a fortunate situation in that I was playing DoW. Usually the other mission types are hell vs. an alpha strike army like this. At least id stand a decent chance now. I knew that there would be one roll that decided who would have a HUGE upper hand and possibly even win the battle- it all came down to who went first. The IG got it! ><; Luca combined his platoon squad into a 20man long line to form the pushback. I deployed the DC and mephy and struck the jumpers. http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/SA%20Nationals%202011/IMG_4295-1.jpg In his first turn he moves backwards with the line, and uses the run order to get them away from mephy. I boosted up two biker squads and moved everything into cover, getting as much cover from his main forces as possible. The vendettas would still be a problem. I took 2 lucky shots with lascannons on the vendettas, but both came up short in nightfight. In his turn, i lost my one Razorback at the rear, had my DC immobed, and had my bikers shot at- luckily the 3+ saves held up. In the next phase, my jumpers came down (not the VAS though). I chose not to reroll just yet, since the line of troops were protecting his tanks. Mephy jumped out (after snake eyes perils) and engaged the 20man squad. The DC ran out of the their rhino and started heading towards the fray. The bikers darted out and took shots on the 'dettas. 2 bikers were in MM (and charge) range of the vendetta. Both missed :P The other bikers also failed to do anything. I was now in an unfortunate situation. I charged with mephy, i used Rage to reroll the dice i had hit with, to try minimise the amount of hits i made on him, so he wouldnt break in my turn. He removed the sargeants with the 2 wounds i caused, and then even wound up inflicting a wound on mephy. He passed his break check! Mephy was safe, and trouble would begin next turn! mwuhaahha Marbo came on- he was about to put marbo in the thick of things, but realised it woudl be a KP throw away, instead he put him in a defensive position in the back line. He continued shooting at the bikers, and the jumpers. The bikers went to ground (out in the open) vs the vendettas, i saved 1 biker in each squad, from 6s !! woot! The RAS also went to ground, and got a 3+ thanks to the biker cover. I lost Corb's razor. At ld8, i was hoping to break with my bikers, but they both held fast. However, the RAS broke! Bonus for me. Mephy unleashed the rage, and destroyed the guardsmen and readied to launch himself headlong into the Russes. Mephy has a history with Luca's russes D: heheheh In the next phase the Van Vets came down. I combat squadded them (not smartest for KP - but it was a necessity). One squad would engage the lasteam and russes on the right, and one team would engage the lasteam and vendetta on the left. The trick was to make 4 of the 5 touch the tank, while only one touched the men, so that (again) the guardsmen wouldnt break, and id be locked in combat. The scatter on the russ group was good. The scatter on the vendetta group was bad, and i needed a reroll from corbs. Corbs saved the squad, but i was out of range for a double charge, meaning id lose that squad :wacko: The RAS regrouped and moved up to take melta shots at the vendetta, while the DC, now joined by corbs, started moving up. Mephy then rolled an 11 for his wings :huh: HUGE balls up. This was going to cost me big. The VAS on the left destroyed the vendetta, the VAS on the right, managed to only stun a Russ - even the thunderhammer duffed it up hitting on 4s :( To add insult to injury, the guardsmen las team broke too, meaning i was a free target. I had taken out the vendettas by this stage, so i just needed to keep pushing forward. http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/SA%20Nationals%202011/IMG_4296-1.jpg in his turn, i took serious fire, from everything, losing all the VAS, and the one biker squad. (I managed another go to ground at some stage too!) Mephy wound up biting it too. The next few turns, saw what little I had moving, and running towards him. I got the RAS into combat with his Russes, but again, failed to do much. The DC kept running as fast as they could, and it got to the stage where he stopped firing, and instead moved away from the oncoming death. It went into 6th turn, and the DC and remnant RAS were almost in the lines. They did some damage, the RAS taking out a medusa now in the corner, the DC trying desperately to get into combat with something. If memory serves, the game ended in the 6th turn. I had lost 7Kill Points, and my opponent had lost 6. SUCH a tight game :( So many small factors that had any of them gone my way, would have been a different story. The 3 big disappointments were mephy failing wings when i REALLY needed it and 2 sets of PF/TH attacks all hitting, but doing NOTHING to tanks (lots of 1s and 2s on pen rolls). Overall a great tournament, but I couldnt help but feel a little upset at the closeness of it all. The last defeat I had to Luca was almost more "satisfying" in that it was very solid. ( It also brought our tourney record to 3-2 to me, but Luca's new list sitting unbeaten by me in tourney, and overall unbeaten in 12 tourney games) Hope you enjoyed the batreps. Would love some feedback/thoughts/ideas/comments/questions ! (and a quick pic of the BA players at the tourney -> http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/SA%20Nationals%202011/IMG_4282.jpg ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 ouch, such bad luck on the Mephiston 11 for wings. Nice reports and well done at the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 IG is always such a tough matchup... the dice can be huge. I think you did awesome especially seeing the dice could have been kinder to you. As always thanks for sharing m8 . ;) G :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 sounds like a close game m8 :) i know how it feels to do fapp damage against armour a few turns in a row :D (also against guard) its tough but not much you can do about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakim Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Awesome batreps, thanks! One game mephi was down to 1 wound, none of them caused by my oponent - 2 perils and 2 dangerous terrain rolls. Refused to cast another spell the whole game :D Had him fleeting around killing random transports and leftovers. And he still managed to pop a dread the last turn. S7 charge thanks to nearby priest landed me a pen and a wreck :D He still needs an invul save. I'm still partial to the Stronos razorback. Mostly because even if i hit the dice refuse to pen. So having 2 extra s7 shots at close range tends to help against transports, marines and pesky demonprinces. Will you stick to the TLLC or return to the good old Stronos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I am really wanting to try out some death company they sound great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Will you stick to the TLLC or return to the good old Stronos? Will entirely depend on how much shooty support I have in my list. If my support is decent, i'll def go for at least one las/plas. If its minimal, Ill keep the TLLC! I am really wanting to try out some death company they sound great. Glendor - they really are awesome, just remember that with the way rage is worded, it is essentially only the first (and closest) model to the enemy that needs to move as fast and as directly as possible towards it. Thereafter the other DC can move wherever they want. (a lot of people seem to miss that point!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 I am really wanting to try out some death company they sound great. Glendor - they really are awesome, just remember that with the way rage is worded, it is essentially only the first (and closest) model to the enemy that needs to move as fast and as directly as possible towards it. Thereafter the other DC can move wherever they want. (a lot of people seem to miss that point!) Just for those that are confused by this comment, or are new to 40k or have gaming groups that believe otherwise or are bullied into believing "its not the right way to play".... Here's the explanation behind the above comment: Take the example below where an Ork player attempts to kite our DC with the Kopta, after blowing up the DC rhino: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Dork%20Stuff-%20Fun%20Stuff/DCrage.jpg According to rage the unit must move as fast as possible to the nearest visible enemy unit. By moving as fast as possible, our unit of DC must end up closer to the target enemy. This criteria can actually be fulfilled by one move: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Dork%20Stuff-%20Fun%20Stuff/DCrage2.jpg Since "number1" has moved as fast as possible to the enemy the outline of the DC unit- and therefore the unit, no matter where it ends, will have moved closer to the enemy unit as fast as possible. The rest can then move without penalty. http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Dork%20Stuff-%20Fun%20Stuff/DCrage3.jpg Why? Because your unit is still closer and has still moved as fast as possible to the enemy. Just as another explanation for those still not convinced: Here is a non-descrip BA blob. http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Dork%20Stuff-%20Fun%20Stuff/DCrage4.jpg It is closer to the Kopta than the boys. If we applied Rage rules to the blob....we can move it like so: http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb447/Brindleysa/Dork%20Stuff-%20Fun%20Stuff/DCrage5.jpg Is the blob closer to the Kopta? Yes it is. Remember, just cause the tail end got further away, this doesn't change the fact at all, that the unit got closer. When measuring ranges to a unit, we dont measure to the back of it- we measure to the front! Rage references the unit, not models in the unit. Had it mentioned the models needing to move as fast as possible, it would be a completely different story, but it doesnt. Hope that helps if you were of the opinion it was otherwise. EDIT: It is important to note, that the unit (for all intents and purposes usually the first model) must move as quickly and directly as possible to the enemy. As a result, Difficult Terrain rolls will often be decided based on this models path. So, even in cases where we're wanting to move our DC elsewhere, if that first unit has to cross DT, then obviously the unit must roll. This is also the case for DC out of wrecked rhino's. Sometimes, the closest visible enemy unit is through the rhino - forcing us to make dangerous and DT rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Morticon, I thank you from the bottom of my heart from that explanation. Also, always enjoy reading your batreps, very well done as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Just a quickie Morticon, I then went about setting up a blocked-charge.This is a great tactical move for dealing with deathstar units. it works better if you have jumpers and either bikers or speeders to help. What you do is you tank shock through a unit, splitting them in two. You then use your other mobile units to block off their pile in move area, meaning that at max 2, maaaaybe 3 if you're lucky wolves will be able to strike you, while all your forces charge one wolf and allow the wounds to follow through to the squad. I positioned my DC where I could, moved corbs and the ras squad out, ready to engage, moved one biker squad...and then tank shocked forward. With this, do you end up splitting the squad down the middle and parking the tank there so the rest don't move back, or? The reason I ask is that I remember the Tank Shock rules to be if you Tank Shock a squad and they pass their Leadershop test they move out of the way to let the tank pass through and then move back to their original position (seeing as they would be out of coherency otherwise). Am I getting myself confused with an old version of the rules (i.e 4th edition) or do I just play incorrectly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 Just a quickie Morticon, I then went about setting up a blocked-charge.This is a great tactical move for dealing with deathstar units. it works better if you have jumpers and either bikers or speeders to help. What you do is you tank shock through a unit, splitting them in two. You then use your other mobile units to block off their pile in move area, meaning that at max 2, maaaaybe 3 if you're lucky wolves will be able to strike you, while all your forces charge one wolf and allow the wounds to follow through to the squad. I positioned my DC where I could, moved corbs and the ras squad out, ready to engage, moved one biker squad...and then tank shocked forward. With this, do you end up splitting the squad down the middle and parking the tank there so the rest don't move back, or? The reason I ask is that I remember the Tank Shock rules to be if you Tank Shock a squad and they pass their Leadershop test they move out of the way to let the tank pass through and then move back to their original position (seeing as they would be out of coherency otherwise). Am I getting myself confused with an old version of the rules (i.e 4th edition) or do I just play incorrectly? You're correct in your first assumption, and youre not getting confused/playing it incorrectly! The trick here it know your inches. You declare a distance that will not put you past the squad, but rather in the models space they currently occupy. According to the tank shock rules, if the tank ends where they are/were, then the enemy needs to move the models in the shortest distance possible to maintain coherency. This in turn allows you to set up the blocked charge. Its much much more difficult with regular sized models due to their base size and he minimum distance from enemy requirement. For Thundercav and Termy bases, its a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Great seeing another strong showing Mort! As a long time DC fanboi i have to thank you for showing some interesting ways to use them. DC are IMO one of the best terror troops in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 DC are IMO one of the best terror troops in the game. That they are :wallbash: For those of you that were confused by me joining Corbs to the DC in that last ditch against IG by the way, it was so Corbs could soak up all the small arms fire en route in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Just a quickie Morticon, I then went about setting up a blocked-charge.This is a great tactical move for dealing with deathstar units. it works better if you have jumpers and either bikers or speeders to help. What you do is you tank shock through a unit, splitting them in two. You then use your other mobile units to block off their pile in move area, meaning that at max 2, maaaaybe 3 if you're lucky wolves will be able to strike you, while all your forces charge one wolf and allow the wounds to follow through to the squad. I positioned my DC where I could, moved corbs and the ras squad out, ready to engage, moved one biker squad...and then tank shocked forward. With this, do you end up splitting the squad down the middle and parking the tank there so the rest don't move back, or? The reason I ask is that I remember the Tank Shock rules to be if you Tank Shock a squad and they pass their Leadershop test they move out of the way to let the tank pass through and then move back to their original position (seeing as they would be out of coherency otherwise). Am I getting myself confused with an old version of the rules (i.e 4th edition) or do I just play incorrectly? You're correct in your first assumption, and youre not getting confused/playing it incorrectly! The trick here it know your inches. You declare a distance that will not put you past the squad, but rather in the models space they currently occupy. According to the tank shock rules, if the tank ends where they are/were, then the enemy needs to move the models in the shortest distance possible to maintain coherency. This in turn allows you to set up the blocked charge. Its much much more difficult with regular sized models due to their base size and he minimum distance from enemy requirement. For Thundercav and Termy bases, its a lot easier. With that tactic in mind renember you are allowed to premeasure your movement :lol: so you can actually measure how far you want to move them :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israfel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 With that tactic in mind renember you are allowed to premeasure your movement ;) so you can actually measure how far you want to move them :cuss I'm not sure that you are allowed to do that?! @ Morticon I'm preparing for a tournament and I am considering adding the same configuration you used to my hybrid army. I have some queries concerning the performance of the death company. I know that you playtested this unit a lot, I would really apprecaite your opinion on the following: 1) Does their rhino need EA? I'm guessing that is would be priority target for enemy shooting, do you think that the EA would add a significant benefit? Or did you miss it at all? 2) Why the PW? Isn't the PW's effectiveness reduced because of the flurry of non armor piercing attacks delivered at the same initiative? Didn't your opponents allocate the PW wound to the same model? 3) What would you think about adding a second PF instead of the PW? Overkill? Bad idea? Would you keep the PW anyhow? 4) Why not add a chaplain to the DC? 5) How would hou feel about reducing their numbers for bling? Is 8 the magic number? Thank you very much! :eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 @ Morticon I'm preparing for a tournament and I am considering adding the same configuration you used to my hybrid army. I have some queries concerning the performance of the death company. I know that you playtested this unit a lot, I would really apprecaite your opinion on the following: 1) Does their rhino need EA? I'm guessing that is would be priority target for enemy shooting, do you think that the EA would add a significant benefit? Or did you miss it at all? 2) Why the PW? Isn't the PW's effectiveness reduced because of the flurry of non armor piercing attacks delivered at the same initiative? Didn't your opponents allocate the PW wound to the same model? 3) What would you think about adding a second PF instead of the PW? Overkill? Bad idea? Would you keep the PW anyhow? 4) Why not add a chaplain to the DC? 5) How would hou feel about reducing their numbers for bling? Is 8 the magic number? Thank you very much! ^_^ 1) I find this to be a matter of playstyle and list design than real necessity. If you're playing a more shooty counter than an all out aggressive list, then id consider EA - on accuont of you spending more time maneuvering around the terrain as opposed to charging head first. List design also comes into play, because it depends on how many other high priotiy targets you have. In the list above, the Razors and the bikers form the highest priority against Mech lists. Playstyle comes into it depending on how you like to set up if you're not going first. If you go first, its obvious. If you go second, then i'll either deploy my DC rhino fully behind cover, or off the table. Ive also found that when a DC Rhino is stunned it still draws fire, so the enemy can deal with them. They very rarely say "Okay, hes not moving next turn i'll shoot something else" they usually keep shooting till its dead - but as said again depends on what turn it is, and its position. For me, I'll put a dozer blade on a Rhino. Thats it. 2) The DC in my list specialise in taking on certain heavy enemy units. Units that most of my other guys cant deal with. With the help of FC/FNP, my RAS can deal with standard tactical type marines and standard infantry units. But my DC need to help out with other things. Daemon princes, terminators, leaders, etc etc. That power weapon turns a DPs save from a 3+ to a 5+, or a termy save from a 2+ to a 5+ for example. Also, when they do target regular marines, if they stack wounds, im not too cocnerned, cause they lose specials, and more importantly its one less enemy my opponent can save - its kinda like an insurance policy for at least 1 death - but usually more. For what its worth, at full strength and the way I run my DC (1PF/TH, 1PW and 2 additional bolters) I get 22 regular attacks and 4 other attacks by the pw. This means that on the charge vs. MEq im looking at 10 or so regular wounds and 1 or 2 PW. Im alright with that. 3) When I have points, I usually play a DC with Hammer, Fist and PW. If you have more points, definitely go for 2 PF over 1PW, 1PF ! 4) I love the idea, but to put a chappy into this list, id lose too much from other areas. My shooting is hidden in the bikers, and the meltas. Everything is working in sync with each other to such a clinical level that Id need to rework the whole list to make a change like that. My general philosophy however is not to put too much stock in one unit. Rather spread the work and use the models/units in sync with each other. Having a chappy in their makes it target number 1 and its a big investment in one target. 5) I ran a 7man DC with 6 PWs, and 1 PF -was incredible. But, I wouldnt go lower than 7. They are scary, and as a result draw too much fire. Its not so much about how much damage they do at full strength, but being able to still do damage when they get there. 300 points for a rhino, PW, PF and TH and 9 guys is very, very good bang per buck i feel. Hit me back if you have any more thoughts/questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israfel Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Hey Morticon, Thank you very much for the detailed response, I`ll drop in my list (1850) so maybe you can elaborate further :( HQ Mephiston Elite SP w. JP Troop RAS 5 - MG - Rback LC/TLPG RAS 5 - MG - Rbcak LC/TLPG RAS 10 - PF - 2 MG FA Baal Pred TLAC/HB Baal Pred TLAC/HB AB x 3 MM HS Pred Ann AC/LC Pred Ann AC/LC This brings me a grand total of 1600 for the remaining 250 pts I am undecided between adding a 10 man RAs squad or the DC. With the points limit the combinations are a little restricted I`m afraid. 250 is 8 man PF PW and Rhino, another combination I can do is to exchange 1 MM AB to HB and make a 7 man squad with 2 PF PW and a Rhino with a dozer blade for 260. I don`t like the idea of losing a MM on the AB`s, even if it opens the door for wound allocation shenanigans. Moving back and forth in the 250 pts barrier I could drop a DC and the PW to add PF TH and dozer. I really like the dozer idea though thus I might also drop a dc and add a PW and the DB. For a grand total of 7 DC PF 2 PW Rhino w DB Any suggestions? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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