Captain Engelhardt Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ok, he's obviously not, but he's darn mighty, even for his points, with his "immune to ID"-rule and a 2+/4+ save...and then his weapons ! Dear god, how could you stand before him, if not shoot with all your units on him ? And even if he rolls some 1s, he has 4 wounds :P Oh, and another thing; I plan to use Abaddon as a "counts-as" for my Chaos force, does anyone ever use him in games and if so, how ? I assume the best way is to teleport him right into battle, right ? thanks for any opinions, Capt. E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roultox Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Treat abbadon as a type of greater daemon. In that sense, just kill him with the same attention you would down a GD. Abbadon can be counts as if you want. Teleporting a solo lord is asking to get him killed, have him inside a land raider or among a number of other deep strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Yeah, he's pretty much unstoppable. That's why he's 275 points. Honestly, there's not much to be done about him. Genestealers strike simultaenously and rend. Harelquins have a shot at it. Our Marines, I'm afraid, really don't. It'd take dozens of marines and multiple powerfist sargeants to seriously threaten him in combat. You shoot him a bunch and avoid him if you can. He's tough to take down with normal shots, but if you pull two or three wounds off him, a squad powerfist might get lucky and finish him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Using the things that Chaos has at its disposal? My guess would be lots of Tzeentchian Terminators with Power Fists. The 4+ Inv will help them stay around and they'll be striking after him anyway so might as well hit harder. Couple that with alot of lesser daemons and hope to swamp him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Can he start the game in a LR or does he have to embark first turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 jump pack librarian with +1I and force weapon . with chaos termi deep strikers or oblits sniping, but it takes luck/more then one turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAryan Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 You can start him inside the raider. Honestly the +1I isn't going to help without furious charge, and even then your really battling the odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'll admit that beating Abbadon to death with lesser daemons would be A: awesome and B: actually not that bad an idea. For his points you get 21 lesser daemons. They get the charge (cause daemons always do, basically). He swings first. We'll give him a 4 on his DW roll, which gives him, what, 8 attacks? Ouch. Well, he swings and hits 5 or six, wounds with everything, kills about four. The remaining 17take 51 swings back, hit with, say, 25, do eight or nine wounds--that's one, quite possibly two failed saves. If he kills four the next turn, again (and he's doing reasonably well if he gets eight in two rounds) there'll still be 26 swings coming back at him, which probably put on another wound. They've got reasonable odds of actually killing him before he kills all of them. So, how's that for all you lesser-daemon nay-sayers? 273 points of lesser daemons stand up to Abbadon the Despoiler (at 275 points) in combat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 why 6 attacks 3 should hit 1.5 should wound he saves half and then you pass Ld and he dies . a fifty/fifty chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAryan Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 How about 8 thousand sons, aspiring sorcerer with warp time. Roughly the same points, the sons tie up Abaddon for two or three rounds giving your sorcerer time to get in that force weapon attack. The sorcerers aren't IC's so the can't be picked out and Abaddon has to eat through a lot of 4+ saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Jeske: He's toughness five. The Librarian is strength four. The Librarian'd need 5s to wound, not 4s, which leaves him with less than 50/50 odds. The librarian has, actually, a 62.08% chance of failure. For the record :P The Thousand sons occured to me, too, though Warp Time won't matter since you can't cast Warp Time and use your force weapon on the same turn. The Thousand Sons champion only has about a %21.2 chance of success (a little more than half as likely as the Librarian) but those piles of extra wounds and 4+ invulnerables will certainly help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Cadente Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I'd just get a Librarian with the adamantine cloak, terminator armour, and some form of extra CCW (anything will do) familiar and ram a force weapon in his face, there you dead abby, you only need 1 wound to get him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Considering a Librarian with a Combat Shield and an Adamantium Mantle, and presuming the Librarian gets the charge: Abbadon has a 52.20% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 2 on his daemon weapon. He has a 64.79% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 3 on his daemon weapon. He has a 74.80% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 4 on his daemon weapon. He has a 82.37% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 5 on his daemon weapon. And he has a 87.91% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 6 on his daemon weapon. Note that this is his chance of dealing at least 3 wounds to the Librarian. Meanwhile, the Librarian, as I said, only has a 37.92% chance of killing Abbadon on his first turn, and only a 32.79% chance of killing him on subsequent turns. So, basically, the Librarian is very outclassed. He might get lucky and win, but it's definitely a long shot. While an Adamantium Mantle helps, it just doesn't help that much. Odds are, Abbadon is still murdering the Librarian and the Librarian is probably not even going to do a single wound to Abbadon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella Cadente Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Considering a Librarian with a Combat Shield and an Adamantium Mantle, and presuming the Librarian gets the charge: Abbadon has a 52.20% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 2 on his daemon weapon. He has a 64.79% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 3 on his daemon weapon. He has a 74.80% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 4 on his daemon weapon. He has a 82.37% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 5 on his daemon weapon. And he has a 87.91% chance of killing the Librarian if he rolls a 6 on his daemon weapon. Note that this is his chance of dealing at least 3 wounds to the Librarian. Meanwhile, the Librarian, as I said, only has a 37.92% chance of killing Abbadon on his first turn, and only a 32.79% chance of killing him on subsequent turns. So, basically, the Librarian is very outclassed. He might get lucky and win, but it's definitely a long shot. While an Adamantium Mantle helps, it just doesn't help that much. Odds are, Abbadon is still murdering the Librarian and the Librarian is probably not even going to do a single wound to Abbadon. ahh yes but your using maths to define your reasoning, it never works out like that, the Librarian could hit and wound with everything and Abaddon might miss every attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Actually, Stella, it does work out like that--fairly frequently in fact. =P You're certainly right that the Librarian has a shot at it--I certainly never said that he didn't. What I said is that his shot at it isn't very likely to succeed--and that is entirely true. "Maths" don't "define" my reasoning. Rather, I made a statement of a mathematical nature and, appropriately, used math to verify that statement. The Librarian is far more likely to fail to kill Abbadon than not. Even with the Adamantium Mantle and Combat Shield, this remains plain, simple, and true. No matter what arguments against math you manage to muster. =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAryan Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Models with the MoT may attempt to use up to two psychic powers per turn. I return my unit of thousand sons with an aspiring sorcerer with the warp time ability to the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAryan Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Also if were just talking about who can kill Abaddon and we don't care what codex it comes from, either C'Tan will eat him a live, and Mephiston will stand a better chance then other Librarians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Sorcerers with the Mark of Tzeentch may use two powers per turn, yes, but they may not use a power and a Force Weapon. The Force Weapon rules specifically forbid using a Force Weapon and another power in the same turn. This restriction is entirely separate from the normal restriction against using more than one power per turn, and it is not ignored because of the Mark of Tzeentch. The T-Sons sorcerer-and-squad is a good suggestion, but it can't benifit from both Warp Time and the Force Weapon effect--and I think the Force Weapon is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAryan Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I'm not sure I agree with you on that one, but I'm not really in the mood to debate it right now. Still, C'tan will eat him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I'm not sure I agree with you on that one, but I'm not really in the mood to debate it right now. Still, C'tan will eat him... Probably a fluke on my part, but I have taken down Nightbringer with Abaddon before. It's not a foregone conclusion that using a C'Tan will eliminate Abaddon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Abbadon's got more swings, but he doesn't wound as well or ignore the saves. CTan certainly has a better shot than anything I can think of. Also, DAryan, you're not really required to agree with me, but it's been debated, on these very forums, quite a lot. Do a search. I'm basically just right on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAryan Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I haven't seen a debate on the subject in this forum since the new 'Dex came out, anyone want to throw me a link? From my reading on the force weapon entry, along with the entirety of the shop I play at, I can most certainly use a force weapon and warp time if I'm a Tzeentch sorcerer. But lets not hijack this post, some one throw me a link or I'll just start up a new debate under a fresh topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I know these rules are kinda out of date (I still use them tho :)) Librarian (Could be a Captain if you waned but I like the familiar fir the extra I ;) althogh your wasting loads of points for a force weapon you won't use XD.) give him Veil of time because those rerolls will help along with either Termi armour and a mantle or Iron Halo and Artificer armour and then (Out of date) Give him the Shard of the Monolith and Artekus' Scourge (IA:elictors rules) and if you have points to waste even a command squad with furious charge. Thats 4 attacks (no charge) at I7 and S5 you can re-roll hits wounds and everything else and if the enemy takes a wound they must then roll under its leadership (so a 9 or less for Mr.Abaddon) on 3d6 which hurts alot... However if he fails to kill Mr.A he will in all probabillity entre a world of pain XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tfcdogbert Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 As a weird idea, a coupla cheap sorcerers with gift of chaos, they each have a one in three chance of spawning him and it doesn't count for his immune to ID rule (although i dont recall whether it can only be used in CC or not, even if it is, a pair of cheap princes with it might do it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cale Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Turning Abbadon into a spawn would be hilarious, but remember that he's toughness five, not four, so the Gift of Chaos only has a 1/6 chance of spawning him (and that's not counting the 1/12 chance of the sorcerer/prince failing its psychic test). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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