IA: Angels Pyriel

[Dazzo]

ANGELS PYRIEL

Light of Heaven

Perditions Flames

Homeworld: Pristine Tower, wild space, segmentum Obscuras
Geneseed: Dark Angel
Founding: 21st
Colour Scheme: Pale metallic blue and gold
Symbol: Winged flame

Upon their founding the entire chapter left imperial space along with their Dark Angel mentors to found their fortress monastery, they were not seen again for more than a three centuries. Upon their return to the Imperium the Angels Pyriel set about making up for lost time and flung themselves into the breach, answering all calls for aid that their astropaths detected. They appeared un heralded, struck hard and the head of the enemy and then left, leaving the broken armies of the enemy to be mopped up by local forces and imperial reinforcements. It remains a mystery as to why they were gone so long, the chapter maintains they had difficulties in transit through the warp, however their is suspicion in some quarters as to the veracity of that claim.

The fortress monastery of the Angels Pyriel is the xenos artifact known as the Pristine Tower. Located in a star forming region of wild space the Pristine tower sits amid the glowing radioactive clouds of dead giants and the first light of newborn stars. The Tower is a gleaming spike of gold and rare stone almost 200 miles in legnth. Its shimmering heights are garlanded with a profusion of minarets, weapon batteries shield nodes sensor spines. Its pinnacle is surmounted by golden eagles wings up swept, from whose backs burst the light of heaven, a thousand mile long plume of plasma. It is only know about by the Angels themselves the Imperium has no knowledge of its existence. It is here the Angels Pyriel conduct all their experimentation on weapons and genetics. The Pearl Gate is the original fortress monastery of the Angels and it sits upon the edge of the nebula, it is here all interaction with the Imperium takes place.

Despite the mix, the Geneseed of the Angels Pyriel is rock solid, it does require extensive and rigorous genetic screening to maintain that stability, but the Celestials have managed to come up with a quick and simple procedure developed over millenia to allow for a swift compatibility test. This test is about 40% accurate, but with the right genetic markers appearing in only 1:18,000,000 it is accurate enough for expediencies sake. The test itself is a genecoded virus released into the atmosphere of an unclean world, all those who are worthy of the geneseed will survive to become aspirants. Failed aspirants are mind scrubbed and turned into servitors.

Physically the Angels Pyriel are perfect, they have distinctive white skin, black eyes and hair that is either jet black, honey gold or pure white. It is not the physical nature of the Angels Pyriel that is the problem however, psychologically they are a mess.

The Angels Pyriel only give the appearance of following the organizational rules laid down within the codex, on truth they have completely abandoned the codex as being a flawed and heretical text devised by a flawed individual. The Angels Pyriel are grouped into 12 hosts, each host is led by a marshal not a captain and is divided into 12 orders which are split between 4 choirs:

1st Choir
Supernal (the holy 12 of the supreme council,Michael, Suriel, Metatron, Samael, Astanphaeus, Saraqael, Phanuel, Jehoel, Serafiel, Uriel, Yefiah, Akatriel)
Celestials (Apothecaries)
Illuminators (chaplains)

2nd Choir
Thrones (hunters of the fallen)
Pillars (Zealots or the purge squads)

3rd Choir
Dominions (command staff)
Powers (Librarians, psychic nulls, astropaths)
Arch Angels (1st host veterans)

4th Choir
Principalities (techmarines)
Angels (veterans)
Heralds (marines)
Redeemed (Scouts & aspirants)

There is little or no scope for advancement through the ranks for the vast majority of the chapters marines, the highest most could aspire to is the 3rd choir Dominions. The Angels Pyriel also do not follow the strictures of the codex when it comes to the size of the chapters and do not set limits on recruitment. It is a fact that the Angels Pyriel will elevate any person found to be genetically pure to the order of the redeemed, and as soon as possible, whether battle loses require it or not, elevate them to the order of Heralds. The holy council is drawn from the 11 orders of the host and the grandmaster himself, the supernals are rarely seen outside of the fortress monastery, relying on the marshals to carry out their grand schemes.
They do not stop at acquiring more bodies, but have a sizable collection of tanks, artillery light vehicles and warships. Indeed the Angels use many vehicles that are generally associated with other imperial organizations and have even appropriated a capitol imperialis for their own uses.

Their doctrine is simple, cleanse and purify. The Angels Pyriel do not employ delicate measures, when they go into battle they go in hard and with overwhelming fire power. A population found to be harboring heretics will be exterminated, without recourse to the innocence or guilt of the individuals. On every world they visit they begin an immediate pogrom against mutants aided by their redemptionist allies, again they will kill indiscriminately, often fire bombing entire settlements if a mutant is found therein. They are despised by almost all sane quarters of the imperial war machine and so work alone, though there are enough Inquisitors willing to employ the Angels to ensure that they are not overtly censured. The Angels Pyriel appear to be very limited tactically, the repeated use of brute force being their first, preferred and only option.

"cleanse and purify" or "purity"


Annealing chamber. Upon attaining the rank of herald a marine will enter the chamber and leave purified of base emotions and concerns. Will also be physically altered, will be be perfect to look at. Those who fail this test are cast into the pit if their flaws are to great or mind wiped and turned into servitors. High degree of failure means high degree of recruitment is required. More than one entry into the chamber will allow you to rise through the ranks, further changes happen. Failure at this stage simply means the marine will advance no further in the chapters hierarchy. Each time a marine enters he will become more perfect that is to say removed further and further from humanity the grandmaster himself is now immortal and virtually indestructable, but also bound to the pristine tower so he may only ever leave for very short periods. Physically he is the most perfect being since the emperor however such is is mental and physical 'change' that no one who is not part of the chapter is allowed to look at him lest they die. That is to say to protect the chapter from the inquisition anyone who sees him will be killed.

The angels pyriel are now a weapon forged exclusively to fight chaos, they are mostly immune from its touch but because this in itself would draw to much attention to the chapter they cannot use this gift in plain sight and will often dispatch warriors under the guise of a crusading chapter to fight the most dangerous of foes.

The tower was actually discovered by the alpha legion, before the heresy proper, when the angels arrived they found several ships and battle barges crammed with goodies but completely abandoned. Also found many xenos ships aswell. Inside the tower were thousands of suits of power armour in perfect working order but no bodies. The tower built by creature of law seemingly recognized the threat of the alpha legion and purged itself of their biological components. The ships were claimed for the chapter as well as all the battle gear.

Tower is not evil or chaotic, neither are the angels, they will oppose both vigorously. However their methods are, from a human point of view perhaps to extreme, their success in rooting out darkness however cannot be denied. most world recover after a few centuries and they are better, fairer worlds for having the scourge of the angels pyriel applied. Overtly they are brutal and straight forward however this is a cover for a more subtle scheme which changes how the planet is ruled. The governor always dies and is replaced by someone who will enact the changes the angels require. Edited October 7, 2008 by Dazzo

[Octavulg]

The Angels Pyriel are yet another survivor of the 21st founding, a flawed and deeply disturbed chapter in many many respects, it has survived by dint of its stable geneseed and the many apothecaries that have ensured it stays that way.

 

I'd cut one of your "many"s and perhaps use they instead of it - a chapter is a group.

 

Upon their return to the Imperium the Angels Pyriel set about making up for lost time and flung themselves into the breach,

 

In this context, it should be spelled breech. As in "once more unto the breech, dear friends, once more". Which is I think what you may be thinking of.

 

Like the Dark Angels the fortress monastery of the Angels Pyriel is built onto and from a titanic asteroid and is known as the Pristine Tower. Located in a star forming region of wild space the Pristine tower sits amid the glowing radioactive clouds of dead giants and the first light of newborn stars. The Tower is a gleaming spike of gold and marble and was carved from a 200 mile long rogue moonlet.

 

Yeah. Right. 200 miles long? Leaving aside the question of an asteroid made of marble and gold - 200 MILES? That's a LOT of work, even for a full chapter with support for a full century. Especially when you account for travel time, time to find the damn asteroid, etc.

 

a thousand mile long plume of plasma.

 

You REALLY need a sense of scale. The tower alone is a fifth of a mile high for every marine, meaning it's probably bigger than the damn Rock.

 

It is only know about by the Angels themselves the Imperium has no knowledge of its existence. It is here the Angels Pyriel conduct all their experimentation on weapons and genetics. The Pearl Gate is the original fortress monastery of the Angels and it sits upon the edge of the nebula, it is here all interaction with the Imperium takes place.

 

Yes, there 200 mile tall giant asteroid in the middle of the nebula with the thousand mile vent of plasma streaming out the top.

 

Seriously. I think this sort of engineering MIGHT be a TINY bit beyond your average Space Marine chapter. Or the above-average ones.

 

Despite the mix,

 

What mix? You didn't say nothing bout no mix.

 

the Geneseed of the Angels Pyriel is rock solid, it does require extensive and rigorous genetic screening to maintain that stability, but the Celestials have managed to come up with a quick and simple procedure developed over millenia to allow for a swift compatibility test.

 

Oh. It's nice to see that they're apparently smarter than all the First Founding chapters.

 

This test is about 40% accurate, but with the right genetic markers appearing in only 1:18,000,000 it is accurate enough for expediencies sake. Failed aspirants are executed.

 

Why does this matter? Seriously, this is completely extraneous.

 

Pyriel that is the problem however, psychologically they are about as stable as wet sand.

 

A) This metaphor is not in keeping with the darkness of the far future, where there is only blahdeblah.

B ) Wet sand is actually relatively stable. Ever build a sandcastle out of wet sand? Build one out of dry sand?

 

The negative psychological traits of the Dark Angels and the Iron Hands seemed to have been merged and increased making them sadomasochistic psychopaths with little or no empathic reasoning.

 

Charming. And rather odd, seeing as neither the Iron Hands nor the Dark Angels are in any way particularly sadistic or masochistic. Or psychopathic.

 

The Angels Pyriel only give the appearance of following the organizational rules laid down within the codex, on truth they have completely abandoned the codex as being a flawed and heretical text devised by a flawed individual.

 

I like them more now.

 

Supernal (the holy 12 of the supreme council,Michael, Suriel, Metatron, Samael, Astanphaeus, Saraqael, Phanuel, Jehoel, Serafiel, Uriel, Yefiah, Akatriel)

 

A) Why would they change all these names and organizational structures? Restructuring makes sense, ripping the Judeo-Christian angelic structure does not.

B ) Ripping all the angel names directly is not particularly subtle.

 

Both of which are assumed to be legitimate chapters, each with almost 900 marines, but are in fact simply the excess of the Angels Pyriel, over active recruitment program.

 

So they're (another) chapter who just expands willy-nilly. And who are having each of their companies masquerade as other chapters.

 

Seriously - wouldn't the AdMech notice the sudden demands for tons and tons of power armor? For the incredible numbers of bolter shells required? That none of these "chapters" are recorded in the database?

 

Their doctine is simple, if its a heretic kill it, if its a mutant kill it, if its not human kill it, if it is human but not loyeal enough or devout enough kill it.

 

Be more gothic.

 

If it is a heretic, cleanse it. If it is a mutant, cleanse it. If it is a xeno, cleanse it. If it is a traitor, cleanse it. If it is a heretic, cleanse it. Cleanse the galaxy, and the Emperor shall come again. Or somesuch.

 

he Angels Pyriel do employ delicate measures...ever, when they go into battle they go in hard and with overwhelming fire power.

 

This sentence as is makes no sense. And don't put ellipses on the middle of sentences.

 

receptionist allies,

 

Adeptus Astartes, how may we direct your call? The Angels Pyriel, sir? I'm afraid they're out to lunch right now, but if you leave your name and address they will cleanse you after lunch.

 

again they will kill indiscriminately, often fire bombing entire settlements if a mutant is found therein. They are despised by almost all sane quarters of the imperial war machine and so work alone,

 

Why? So far they sound more balanced than a lot of Inquisitors. :down:

 

Tactically the Angels Pyriel are very limited, being that their only tactic seems to be hit it hard and hit it often and if that fails hit is harder and more often.

 

You're too informal. Something along the lines of "The Angels Pyriel appear to be very limited tactically, the repeated use of brute force being their first, preferred and only option.

 

This also doesn't mesh with the whole "super-secretive clever and innovative chapter". Diabolical machinations and growing beyond the approved boundaries and maintaining a secret fortress monastery seem a bit subtle for these guys.

 

The Techmarines are required to prove their loyalty to the chapter by upgrading its equipment with alien sciences, the cult of the omnissiah is seen as heretical and therefore any edicts made by its followers to be unclean.

 

So they all fight naked, what with refusing to associate with the Adpetus Mechanicus, due to being lunatic extremists.

 

Logically inconsistent, and needs some spelling/grammar work. Has lots of potential, though. And I do quite like the colors (and the monastery. It just makes no sense for them to build it. If they found it, inhabited it, and it twisted them, that'd work fine.)

[Ferrus Manus]

Geneseed: Dark Angel with Iron Hand and Raven Guard mix

I wouldn't have the mix of geneseeds. Maybe justy have one as i don't that that the mix is integral to the chapter.

 

deeply disturbed chapter in many many respects

maybe just one many.

 

began to reveal the true flaw of the Angels Pyriel.

What is their flaw? from reading this i haven't got that, explain.

 

I agree with what has been said above about the Homeworld section.

 

This test is about 40% accurate, but with the right genetic markers appearing in only 1:18,000,000 it is accurate enough for expediencies sake.

Again im not sure if thats completely nessecary.

 

The Angels Pyriel are grouped into 12 hosts, each host is led by a marshal not a captain and is divided into 4 choirs with each choir being divided into 12 orders:

So you have the four choirs with each containing tweleve orders, thats 48 orders in effect, so either thse orders are very small or the chapter exceeds the 1000 marine 'limit.' If so how do they hide their numbers from the Inquisition.

 

. A population found to be harboring heretics will be exterminated, without recourse to the innocence or guilt of the individuals. On every world they visit they begin an immediate pogrom against mutants aided by their receptionist allies, again they will kill indiscriminately, often fire bombing entire settlements if a mutant is found therein. They are despised by almost all sane quarters of the imperial war machine and so work alone, though there are enough Inquisitors willing to employ Angels to ensure that they are not overtly censured.

Surely their duty is to protect the people of the Imperium and this type of approach must have been noticed by the Inquisition, so they might not have the best relationship with the Inquisition.

 

. The Techmarines are required to prove their loyalty to the chapter by upgrading its equipment with alien sciences, the cult of the omnissiah is seen as heretical and therefore any edicts made by its followers to be unclean. Only the Grey Knights are viewed as equals in piety by the Angels Pyriel and they seek to emulate that chapters deeds.

 

If they felt like that towards the cult of Mars surely they would be on bad terms with them and then suffer equipment wise, but since our chapter is slightly bigger than normal they would need more equipment?

Also i didn't think that the Grey Knights were known to that many chapters. only those they have Honour debts with. So how does your chapter know of this secret order?

 

Apart from that i like it, the Orders of Angels has always intrested me. I will be watching this one with great intrest.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Ferrus Manus

[StratoKhan]

Ok Dazzo, I shall be a bore.

 

I have a few important notes to make -

 

1/ Mixing Geneseed. Why? It shouldn't be done unless there's an excellent reason for it, and if it is done, perhaps it would be better to hint at it obliquely. The reason here is that the Chapter seem to have a psychotic crazy streak. I think they can be like that without it being 'just because', which is what the geneseed solution often seems to be. It can be explored in different ways, meaning that you get to think more about the Chapter and its background.

 

Also, you seem to have gone one step up from the usual decision, and made them a 3 Geneseed mix! It's just too much not to strain credibility.

 

I would also change that, a "Dark Angel with Iron Hand and Raven Guard mix" just sounds like Pick n Mix. You know, the candy. It doesn't really sound like the kind of description you would give the most sacred of genetic data.

 

2/ Another thing I find problematic is the beginning of the Homeworld part. It starts off with "Like the Dark Angels...", which is a problem because it shows just how similar that particular part is to the Dark Angel background. It kind of weakens the strength of the idea, due to its similarity.

 

Another thing. You end the Origins section with -

 

For 500 years this was the way they fought, and the high rate of attrition and subsequent recruitment slowly began to reveal the true flaw of the Angels Pyriel.

 

And then we get to the Homeworld section. The way you've written it is a lead-on to a part discussing this true flaw. Whne you fail to mention it for an entire paragraph, it seems out of place.

 

3/ Chapter size.

 

The Angels Pyriel also do not follow the strictures of the codex when it comes to the size of the chapters and do not set limits on recruitment.

 

Considering that the size of the Pre-Heresy Legions was a great facilitator of the devastation caused during the Heresy, it is surprising to me why so many insisit on having a larger than average Chapter. Aren't people satisfied with 1000 Space Marines any more?

 

I'll leave it at that for now, I think the idea needs a bit more work, for it to truly work (for me at least) it should be less obviously divergent from the background, and be slightly better developed. It is not simply differences that make a chapter unique, but the development of these differences.

 

In this context, it should be spelled breech. As in "once more unto the breech, dear friends, once more". Which is I think what you may be thinking of.

 

Actually, there is no context in which the word 'breech' is more suitable. Especially as the correct terminology for a gap or hole in a wall (amongst other things) is 'breach'. In the wider context it could be suitable, although slightly florid and one of those annoying 'packaged' terms that are perhaps best avoided. Like a 'tall dark stranger.'

 

Breech on the other hand could be, amongst other things, the loading part of the gun, at the back. Which makes less sense. It seems to have evolved, etymologically, from the word buttock. And 'Once more unto the buttock, dear friends...' is not what was intended, I'm sure.

Edited March 2, 2008 by StratoKhan

[Octavulg]

Actually, there is no context in which the word 'breech' is more suitable.

 

Well, quoting Shakespeare...:rolleyes:

 

Especially as the correct terminology for a gap or hole in a wall (amongst other things) is 'breach'.

 

Indeed. On the other hand, that's not exactly how he used it here. Of course, Shakespeare used it that way in that famous little line, so I am both wrong and sort of right at the same time.

 

In the wider context it could be suitable, although slightly florid and one of those annoying 'packaged' terms that are perhaps best avoided. Like a 'tall dark stranger.'

 

In that case, perhaps the phrase should be removed altogether.

 

Breech on the other hand could be, amongst other things, the loading part of the gun, at the back. Which makes less sense. It seems to have evolved, etymologically, from the word buttock. And 'Once more unto the buttock, dear friends...' is not what was intended, I'm sure.

 

Also a term for pants. Perhaps it can be attributed to the rather...inconsistent spelling of the era.

[StratoKhan]

Well, in my Henry V edition they had it standardised as breach, that's all... But maybe we're getting a bit off-topic.

[Dazzo]

Well if mixed geneseeds is out of the question then it shall have to be unexplained exotic radiation and a strange incident in which no one, not even me knows what happened, that has caused their psychological divergence ;)

 

Yeah. Right. 200 miles long? Leaving aside the question of an asteroid made of marble and gold - 200 MILES? That's a LOT of work, even for a full chapter with support for a full century. Especially when you account for travel time, time to find the damn asteroid, etc

i can reduce the size, but it is still going to be big, and all the work was done by servitors so it doesnt really matter how hard it would be.

 

Yes, there 200 mile tall giant asteroid in the middle of the nebula with the thousand mile vent of plasma streaming out the top.

In a nebula over 50 lys wide its less than a grain of sand on a beach besides sensors dont work to well.

Oh. It's nice to see that they're apparently smarter than all the First Founding chapters.

 

Why does this matter? Seriously, this is completely extraneous.

Take another look at this bit and see of you feel the same ^_^

 

This metaphor is not in keeping with the darkness of the far future,

Fair point.

 

And rather odd, seeing as neither the Iron Hands nor the Dark Angels are in any way particularly sadistic or masochistic.

Well technically thats not true, the Dark Angels have real self esteem problems what with the shame of the fallen, and the Iron hands have the odd perversion of cutting bits of to replace with bionics cos they think flesh is weak. Talk about disturbed, I could see both flaws if magnified and reversed being quite bad.

 

A) Why would they change all these names and organizational structures? Restructuring makes sense, ripping the Judeo-Christian angelic structure does not.

B ) Ripping all the angel names directly is not particularly subtle.

Why, because I thought it would be cool(and still do, you ever seen prophecy)

At what point in the description did I allude to sublty ;)

 

So they're (another) chapter who just expands willy-nilly. And who are having each of their companies masquerade as other chapters.

 

Seriously - wouldn't the AdMech notice the sudden demands for tons and tons of power armor? For the incredible numbers of bolter shells required? That none of these "chapters" are recorded in the database?

No they are new chapters of the Angels Pyriel, they are independant, it is not a case of empire building either.

 

The Mechanicus have been removed from the equation as the Angels Pyriel are perfectly capable of maintaining and constructing their own wargear, and if they cant they steal it under the pretext of legitimate invasion.

 

Adeptus Astartes, how may we direct your call? The Angels Pyriel, sir? I'm afraid they're out to lunch right now, but if you leave your name and address they will cleanse you after lunch.

LMAO :eek Point taken

 

Diabolical machinations and growing beyond the approved boundaries and maintaining a secret fortress monastery seem a bit subtle for these guys.

Add schizophrenic to the list of problems ;)

 

It just makes no sense for them to build it. If they found it, inhabited it, and it twisted them, that'd work fine.

Yes, that works aswell if not better.

 

What is their flaw? from reading this i haven't got that, explain.

They have mental health issues :P

 

So you have the four choirs with each containing tweleve orders, thats 48 orders in effect, so either thse orders are very small or the chapter exceeds the 1000 marine 'limit.' If so how do they hide their numbers from the Inquisition.

No no, its just 12 orders through out the chapter, so actually your right ive written that wrong, its about 3-4 orders per choir, you are in an order, and that order belongs to a certain choir and a host contains marines from all orders.

 

Surely their duty is to protect the people of the Imperium and this type of approach must have been noticed by the Inquisition, so they might not have the best relationship with the Inquisition.

Depends on the Inquisitor really

 

lso i didn't think that the Grey Knights were known to that many chapters. only those they have Honour debts with. So how does your chapter know of this secret order?

I doubt other chapters would never have heard of the grey knights, perhaps the imperium in general doesnt know about them, but I reckon space marines would.

 

"Like the Dark Angels...", which is a problem because it shows just how similar that particular part is to the Dark Angel background.

Yeah I can dump that part if its a problem.

 

Aren't people satisfied with 1000 Space Marines any more?

If there were new chapters every 50 years I could live with it, but the fact that its millenia between new foundings... so no its not enough, why put a limit on your best troops when the enemy keeps increasing in size and there by negates the effectiveness of marines as they become more and more streched.

 

it should be less obviously divergent from the background, and be slightly better developed. It is not simply differences that make a chapter unique, but the development of these differences.

But surly the older a chapter gets the more divergent it will inevitably become?

 

I think i'll leave the breach as is, truly it seems the most controversial part but buttocks and shakespear aside I think I got the right word :lol:

Edited March 3, 2008 by Dazzo

[Octavulg]

i can reduce the size, but it is still going to be big, and all the work was done by servitors so it doesnt really matter how hard it would be.

 

Keep in mind that Servitors require at least some direction and oversight, to say nothing of the vast swarm of servitors which would be needed to do this.

 

In a nebula over 50 lys wide its less than a grain of sand on a beach besides sensors dont work to well.

 

No, but the vast amounts of supplies and equipment needed WOULD garner attention. Not to mention they apparently also built ANOTHER fortress monastery, so that's a lot of building.

 

Take another look at this bit and see of you feel the same happy.gif

 

I do. The bit about killing aspirants isn't necessarily extraneous, but the exact percentages is (and why not servitorize the failed aspirants. Much more horrible - and less wasteful).

 

Well technically thats not true, the Dark Angels have real self esteem problems what with the shame of the fallen,

 

Yes, but these aren't directly tied to the geneseed.

 

and the Iron hands have the odd perversion of cutting bits of to replace with bionics cos they think flesh is weak. Talk about disturbed, I could see both flaws if magnified and reversed being quite bad.

 

There is no evidence this is tied to the geneseed. And technically the reverse of cutting off bits and replacing them with metal bits is cutting off metal bits and replacing them with bits. Tricky for humans. :sick:

 

They being psychologically disturbed is fine, but it could just be the results of a Cursed Founding attempt to create fearless marines. It worked. If only they weren't insane. And then (if you like) their 200-mile tower could malevolently twist them.

 

No they are new chapters of the Angels Pyriel, they are independant, it is not a case of empire building either.

 

They're not new chapters, then, they're more companies et al. They're still only one Chapter.

 

The Mechanicus have been removed from the equation as the Angels Pyriel are perfectly capable of maintaining and constructing their own wargear, and if they cant they steal it under the pretext of legitimate invasion.

 

*Blink-blink*.

 

You mean they have the equipment to produce power armor, bolters, bolter ammo, plasma weapons, melta weapons, missile launchers, missiles, dreadnought chassis, rhinos, and associated vehicles, landspeeders, servitor parts, narthecium, reductors, power fists, power weapons, chainswords...

 

I doubt other chapters would never have heard of the grey knights, perhaps the imperium in general doesnt know about them, but I reckon space marines would.

 

Under old fluff, marines who fought against a Daemonic infestation were mind-wiped. That suggests at least a certain amount of secrecy.

 

On the other hand, the Gk are a numbered Chapter, so there would probably be at least some knowledge.

 

If there were new chapters every 50 years I could live with it, but the fact that its millenia between new foundings... so no its not enough, why put a limit on your best troops when the enemy keeps increasing in size and there by negates the effectiveness of marines as they become more and more streched.

 

Becuase NOT limiting your numbers gets you all destroyed. Because increasing beyond this point will see you without supplies, cast out of the very place you broke that rule to defend.

[Dazzo]

(and why not servitorize the failed aspirants. Much more horrible - and less wasteful).

Thats what happens, and why i said to take another look :D

 

If only they weren't insane. And then (if you like) their 200-mile tower could malevolently twist them.

Yes its the towers fault, it does something or it did something to them that changed them into something that was a bit more removed from humanity than most marines. Its not chaos though, more like pure law.

 

They're not new chapters, then, they're more companies et al. They're still only one Chapter.

Yes ok technically they are one chapter but for the purpose of this IA they are separate entities.

 

You mean they have the equipment to produce power armor, bolters, bolter ammo, plasma weapons, melta weapons, missile launchers, missiles, dreadnought chassis, rhinos, and associated vehicles, landspeeders, servitor parts, narthecium, reductors, power fists, power weapons, chainswords...

Short answer, yes. The same as the space wolves, ultramarines, blood angels and a great many other chapters who have their own weapon shops. :)

 

Becuase NOT limiting your numbers gets you all destroyed. Because increasing beyond this point will see you without supplies, cast out of the very place you broke that rule to defend.

I think it could be done if you have a good resource base and manufacturing capacity.

[StratoKhan]

You mean they have the equipment to produce power armor, bolters, bolter ammo, plasma weapons, melta weapons, missile launchers, missiles, dreadnought chassis, rhinos, and associated vehicles, landspeeders, servitor parts, narthecium, reductors, power fists, power weapons, chainswords...

Short answer, yes. The same as the space wolves, ultramarines, blood angels and a great many other chapters who have their own weapon shops.

 

Hmm, as far as I know, no Chapter is fully self-sufficient in terms of armaments and munitions, but your stance certainly brings up an interesting point - it's not something that I can recall being explicitly discussed in any recent background.

 

Don't know if anyone can help me out with sources, but I seem to recall some material discussing how no Imperial organisation was truly self-sufficient in terms of production.

 

Becuase NOT limiting your numbers gets you all destroyed. Because increasing beyond this point will see you without supplies, cast out of the very place you broke that rule to defend.

I think it could be done if you have a good resource base and manufacturing capacity.

 

Rather than from an industrial standpoint of possibility, I think Octavulg was referring to the political possibility. Sure, a Chapter could try to expand, become considerably larger than the standard codex size. But - would this be possible politically? Wouldn't they come into conflict with too many Imperial institutions?

[Dazzo]

Wouldn't they come into conflict with too many Imperial institutions?

If they were careless or arrogant yes they would indeed have big problems, but the Imperium isnt exactly air tight, its big and fragmented and you could easily hide stuff away if you wanted to. Being that beyond the Imperial sectors little is known about, a chapter that inhabits such places could more than easily get away with what ever the hell it wanted...its not imperial space so the Imperium really wouldnt know. It has more than enough trouble holding onto what it already has to go chasing of into wilderness.

 

Don't know if anyone can help me out with sources, but I seem to recall some material discussing how no Imperial organisation was truly self-sufficient in terms of production.

The basics would be no problem, but if you want vortex grenades you will need to get in touch with your local mechanicus representative, ammo shouldnt be to much of a problem if you were to cut back on the exotic stuff and just give every one bolt pistols instead of plasma pistols and tanks are STC so that means as long as you have the plans you can build it. And what self respecting techmarine wouldnt know how to throw a rhino together. And as for power armour im pretty sure the chapters mange that themselves but I would accept that terminator armour would be a mechanicus only deal.

[Octavulg]

Yes its the towers fault, it does something or it did something to them that changed them into something that was a bit more removed from humanity than most marines. Its not chaos though, more like pure law.

 

THAT is a nice idea. I like very much.

 

Read much Moorcock?

 

Yes ok technically they are one chapter but for the purpose of this IA they are separate entities.

 

If they're seperate entities with seperate color schemes, eventually someone will notice that one of these groups isn't registered in the database.

 

Short answer, yes. The same as the space wolves, ultramarines, blood angels and a great many other chapters who have their own weapon shops.

 

OK, I think the burden of proof is on YOU here. Where does it say that all these chapters are self-sufficient and capable of producing all the supplies they need?

 

Everything I have ever read suggests the exact opposite.

 

I think it could be done if you have a good resource base and manufacturing capacity.

 

Even assuming you did possess the resources to produce enough stuff to expand at that rate, it still doesn't avoid the issue of how you keep the Inquisition from finding out.

 

They watch for stuff like that.

[Heru]

I'm going to be brutally honest (when am I not?), your trying too hard to make your Chapter unique.

 

Now don't get me wrong this is where allot of DIYers go wrong (heck I know I did). The problem is such Chapters never even make it to "good", and always ooze the fact that they are little more than themes sledge hammered into an unfitting Universe (can we say 300 Spartan Marines...). Now this is all well and good if you want to play around in your own little Universe, but it doesn't mesh when you try to have it accepted in a collective Universe that has rules that aren't meant to be ignored because they don't fit with a theme.

 

The key to a successful DIY is to find the parts of the theme that can fit or that stretch the rules alittle (ie Chapters with 1200 Marines, Chapters that really don't follow the Codex Org etc). So my suggestion is to take a long look at your theme (which is obviously Angels), and pick from it what works and lay the rest to one side.

[Sigismund Himself]

You mean they have the equipment to produce power armor, bolters, bolter ammo, plasma weapons, melta weapons, missile launchers, missiles, dreadnought chassis, rhinos, and associated vehicles, landspeeders, servitor parts, narthecium, reductors, power fists, power weapons, chainswords...

Short answer, yes. The same as the space wolves, ultramarines, blood angels and a great many other chapters who have their own weapon shops.

 

Hmm, as far as I know, no Chapter is fully self-sufficient in terms of armaments and munitions, but your stance certainly brings up an interesting point - it's not something that I can recall being explicitly discussed in any recent background.

 

Well, the Black Templars are noted for having forge ships as they are a fleet based chapter. Maybe if there were enough, they could become self sufficient. The only problem I could see is ship construction and maybe something like Terminator armour.

[Dazzo]

Hmmm so

No mixing the geneseed

No massive independent companies

No manufacturing of exotic or large technologies and equipment

Anything else?

 

Can I

Keep the structure and names of the chapters constituents(hosts, choirs ect)

Manufacture tanks, basic weapons and equipment

Say they have a means of replicating some of the rarer technologies(power weapons)

Have psychic nulls

 

I will

be saying it is the tower that caused the change

be introducing an ancient race of law aligned xenos who were very powerful

Be sticking two fingers up to the mechanicus(cos I really hate them)

 

Well, the Black Templars are noted for having forge ships as they are a fleet based chapter.

Point proven.

 

Read much Moorcock?

Yes, but I was thinking more along the lines of WFB gods of law like Solkan

[Heru]

Keep the structure and names of the chapters constituents(hosts, choirs ect)

Yes.

 

Manufacture tanks, basic weapons and equipment

All Chapters manufacture their equipment to some degree. Things like Plasma weapons have to be made on Forge Worlds that specifically tailor to make them.

 

 

Say they have a means of replicating some of the rarer technologies(power weapons)

Astartes just don't have the manpower or technical know how to refine many of the raw materials needed to make certain weapons and vehicles (plasma, and melta weapon + Landspeeder technology etc), even the traitor Legions aren't self sufficent (they get their stuff from the Dark Ad Mech and from raiding Imperial supply routes).

 

 

Have psychic nulls

Blanks/blunts/pariahs are extremely rare, most Chapters are lucky even if they meet one in their entire existance.

 

 

be saying it is the tower that caused the change

That's fine, and quite interesting to be honest.

 

 

be introducing an ancient race of law aligned xenos who were very powerful

The galaxy is a big place I'm sure there are Xenos like that.

 

 

Be sticking two fingers up to the mechanicus(cos I really hate them)

Why what purpose does it serve your Chapter?

[Dazzo]

Why what purpose does it serve your Chapter?

None, but I just cant in all good conscience bring myself to like the AM and even though this is all made up I have to oppose them on moral grounds, someone has to make a stand :(

 

Astartes just don't have the manpower or technical know how to refine many of the raw materials needed to make certain weapons

Thats fine, I can live without an abundance of melta and plasma weapons, but power weapons shouldnt be on the same level as those or are they?

[Heru]

Astartes just don't have the manpower or technical know how to refine many of the raw materials needed to make certain weapons

Thats fine, I can live without an abundance of melta and plasma weapons, but power weapons shouldnt be on the same level as those or are they?

Power Weapons are forged by Artificers (Master Crafters), along with Artificer Armour, Master-crafted Weapons etc, and generally Artificers are Techmarines and regular human craftsmen (that have learned their trade from the Ad Mech).

 

Whilst it is possible to have a Chapter without any formal ties to the Ad Mech it does mean you have to do allot of explaining.

 

The first question would be how do they get their new weapons, equippment, materials etc. You could say they trade the spoils of war with Rogue Traders who give them weapons and materials in return.

 

Then there's the question of how their Techmarines or equivilent even know how to build, and maintain their Armour, Vehicles and weapons (seeing as it's the Ad Mech who teach Techmarines how to do that in the first place). This one is more tricky as there is no way around it. Whilst it is feasible that Techmarine teaches Techmarine it would still mean the original Techmarines were trained by the Ad Mech. It also leads to the problem of degradation of knowledge, where over the generations of Techmarines the knowledge on how to maintain or build certain things is lost (Landspeeders, Terminator Armour, Dreadnoughts, Plasma Weapons all need allot of maintence). This also means the Chapter's Artificers aren't going to be as good as those in other Chapters.

 

Then you have to explain why your Chapter is so at odds with the Ad Mech, and you have to actually justify it beyond "just because", or "because I don't like them". I don't particularly like the Ultramarines but I don't write that into my Chapters (heck my Black Falcons have Ultra Geneseed).

Edited October 7, 2008 by Heru Talon

[Dazzo]

Still have to make lots of changes as the comments made were fair ones, so I will be trying to incorporate those into the finished thing it will just take some time. I have added a few new ideas about where Im going with this beneath the warcry section. Some of it, and by some I mean all, is fairly radical. What I want is essentially like a wedding cake, the Angels Pyriel are all lovely icing and pretty frills on the surface(model imperial warriors) but the cake beneath is a mystery that will kill you if you taste it(to bizzare to be allowed to live). So look, be happy with the appearance of your cake but dont try to eat it. If that makes any sense at all, mmm cake.