New Codex: Space Marines, It's going to be huge Options

[turelhim vampire]

I don’t know if this has already been mentioned but I don’t have time to scrawl though 38 pages whilst I am at work. I just got off the phone with a GW employee – this was from ringing GW mail order at Nottingham - who had the book in front of him and gleaned a few tid bits.

Salamanders Special Character:
NOT Tu’shan – his name is Vulkan Estan he is the ex-4th Company Captain and is a kind of wandering champion. Apparently he has almost inquisition like leverage over the Salamander Chapter, as his task is to seek out and recover 9 holy relics made by Vulkan before he disappeared. Apparently if all 9 are recovered Vulkan will return. Estan has recovered 3 and is using them. One is a Salamander Hide Cloak, one is a Gauntlet which counts as a Heavy Flamer and allows him to re-roll to wound. The third is the Spear of Vulkan - a S6 master crafted power weapon.

On top of this he allows any and all Salamanders in the army to replace their “vanilla” Combat Tactics with the Salamanders version – they get Master Crafted Thunder Hammers for free. All Melta/flamer weapons in the army, no matter their source, count as twin linked – also for free.

In addition (this is a general marine rule) Storm Shields now grant a 3+ Inv. Save against shooting and combat. And all Salamanders Terminator Assault squads come with them, and there thunder hammers are master crafted if Estan is present.


Also I heard the Spearhead will include:
Codex
Drop pod
Telion
Cantor
Sicarius
Tank Commander character
Scout Bikes
5 Vanguard
5 Sternguard
1x Speeder (could be a storm)


Just thought I’d contribute.

[mitchell93]

Awww no Tu'Shan

[Gentlemanloser]

The Strom Shields 3+ Invulnerable save is general right? Not a Salamader specific thing?

If so, Damn that's a fine reason to use Terminators!

[Night Stalker]

well, sound like tunderhammer terminators will be very good :>

also WS6[1 re-roll] S6[re-rollable] A4 [guess] and immunity to instant kills with 2+/3++ make him damn powerfull

This post has been edited by Night Stalker: Jul 4 2008, 06:10 PM

[pwrserge]

2+ / 3+ inv on all thunder hammer terminators
Whow, did that terminator titan hammer formation just get retarted or what?

But on a more serious note... Any clue how combat tactics work?

[Gentlemanloser]

BT Titan Hammer Squad. Fearless, Righteous Zeal, run, S8, 2+/3+i Save!

It might actually be worth using, even if they stand there for a round looking preety.

[turelhim vampire]

From what I hear - although I didn't really ask for clarification, Combat Tactics apparently allow you to voluntarily pass or fail any fall back or sweeping advance type tests.

And yes, the Storm Shield rule is for all marines, not just Salamanders.

This post has been edited by turelhim vampire: Jul 4 2008, 07:11 PM

[Julius Firefocht]

The Storm Shield rule is sick. I mean, this changes the dynamics of Assault Terminators completely, especially with the new wound allocation rules in place.

Powerfist hit? Allocate to Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield guy. Lascannon Hit? RAILGUN Hit? Allocate to Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield guy and laugh it off with a 3+ Invul save.

Coupled with the fact that powerfists now get less attacks as compared to before, I can see a squad of Assault Terminators winning combat more easily than ever. Even monstrous creatures would have reason to fear the charge of a properly kitted out Assault Terminator squad now.

This post has been edited by Julius Firefocht: Jul 4 2008, 07:49 PM

[turelhim vampire]

Right, now work is over and I can talk in some depth, here is what I was told:

-The special characters are designed to be taken by any chapter using "counts as" rules.
-If you give a commander a bike, bike squads are troops.
-Tac squads can have any number of marines - from 5 to 10, but can only have special/heavy weapons if you take a full 10 man squad. They can be split into combat squads during deployment. To make up for the "must have 10 for special/heavies" rule flamers, missile launchers, multi-meltas and heavy bolters are now FREE - you only pay points to take the rest of the options.
-Drop pod assault: Half the drop pods deploy on turn 1 - these half have "deployment beacons" that allow the rest (held as reserves) to come in more accurately. Tac squads choose to deploy as combat squads AFTER they land.
-Scouts in all their forms (including the storm) infiltrate in one of two ways - normally or can come in as reserves from ANY table edge and get to use their free "scout" move when they arrive. Scouts are still troops - Marine Airbourne Cavalry of Doom anyone?
-3 Dread options - Standard, Venerable, and Ironclad - all separate elite entries. Venerables are back to how they used to be and have WS/BS 5. Ironclads have 13/13/10 armour, can take 2x DCCW, Hurricane bolter, twin linked heavy flamer, and some others, I forget now. It also has a rule which could be a weapon option called the "seismic hammer" which counts as a thunder hammer and allows difficult terrain tests to be re-roll as it batters terrain out of the way.
-Dreads are crazy now weapons include - Assault Cannon, Multi Melta, twin Heavy Bolters, twin Heavy Flamers, twin las cannon, twin autocannon, plasma cannon, DCCW, Missile Launcher, and maybe more I have forgotten. Oh, and AT LEAST the twin autocannon can be purchased for BOTH arms.
-Sternguard vets have DW style ammo, 2 can take special/heavies/special CCW - Including HEAVY FLAMERS. For +5pts each they can also take ANY combi weapon - and still keep the specialist ammo type.
-Vanguard vets are similar but are combat-heavy and can have jump packs as an option. Interestingly, they can be further upgraded to "Honour Guard" if you take a Company Master.
-Scouts and Characters can take Combi-Grenade launchers, which are the same as they used to be but are now RAPID FIRE.
-Crusader is now cheaper but does not come with the multi-melta - but this can be purchased as a pintle mounted weapon - possible for ALL land raiders. Redeemer flame cannons are S6 AP3 but are NOT inferno cannons - the template has to touch the weapon - however the machine spirit now allows each weapon on the raider to fire at a separate target.
-There are 13 special characters in total. White Scars character confirmed. No model as yet for him or Vulkan.

Thats all I can remember.

[boreas]

Wow, with the Inquisition gone, I guess I'll play SM. I can already hear my opponent whine about how they find this overpowered...

Phil

[Julius Firefocht]

I'm only commenting on the rumors that interest me the most:

-If you give a commander a bike, bike squads are troops.

The final nail in the coffin for the pure Ravenwing army. Hooray for White Scar players though.

-Tac squads can have any number of marines - from 5 to 10, but can only have special/heavy weapons if you take a full 10 man squad. They can be split into combat squads during deployment. To make up for the "must have 10 for special/heavies" rule flamers, missile launchers, multi-meltas and heavy bolters are now FREE - you only pay points to take the rest of the options.

If thats the case, the individual point cost for Marines might increase to compensate for the "free" weapons. If the point costs stays constant....holy cow, the most common Flamer/Missile Launcher combo just got way cheaper.

-Drop pod assault: Half the drop pods deploy on turn 1 - these half have "deployment beacons" that allow the rest (held as reserves) to come in more accurately. Tac squads choose to deploy as combat squads AFTER they land.

So in short we get all the advantages of the Codex: Daemons deployment pattern with none of the disadvantages. Granted we pay for our drop pods, but I can see drop pod armies becoming very common and very deadly in the future. A properly built drop pod army could easily drop 30 Tactical Marines onto enemy lines in turn 1, with additional reinforcements accurately guided in every turn via the deployment beacons. Necrons, Tau and to a certain extent Guard players beware...

A clear ploy by GW to get people to buy their new drop pods, but damn its gonna work...

-3 Dread options - Standard, Venerable, and Ironclad - all separate elite entries. Venerables are back to how they used to be and have WS/BS 5. Ironclads have 13/13/10 armour, can take 2x DCCW, Hurricane bolter, twin linked heavy flamer, and some others, I forget now. It also has a rule which could be a weapon option called the "seismic hammer" which counts as a thunder hammer and allows difficult terrain tests to be re-roll as it batters terrain out of the way.

Cool. So much for the BA Venerable Furioso Dreadnought. The Ironclad will fulfill all its roles while being tougher and having access to more options.

-Dreads are crazy now weapons include - Assault Cannon, Multi Melta, twin Heavy Bolters, twin Heavy Flamers, twin las cannon, twin autocannon, plasma cannon, DCCW, Missile Launcher, and maybe more I have forgotten. Oh, and AT LEAST the twin autocannon can be purchased for BOTH arms.

This is where it gets more hilarious. So vanilla Marines get access to the BA Furioso Dreadnought and the DA Mortis Dreadnought, when the Mortis pattern is not even in the DA Codex? Talk about rubbing salt into an open wound...

-Sternguard vets have DW style ammo, 2 can take special/heavies/special CCW - Including HEAVY FLAMERS. For +5pts each they can also take ANY combi weapon - and still keep the specialist ammo type.

Nice. Especially the heavy flamers.

Crusader is now cheaper but does not come with the multi-melta - but this can be purchased as a pintle mounted weapon - possible for ALL land raiders. Redeemer flame cannons are S6 AP3 but are NOT inferno cannons - the template has to touch the weapon - however the machine spirit now allows each weapon on the raider to fire at a separate target.

And the Land Raider and all its varients receive the needed buffs. Not too sure about the Machine Spirit though, it sounds kinda iffy to me. Perhaps the weapons have a lower BS when the tank is firing at different targets?

All in all, these titbits are nice enough that I might consider playing vanilla Marines, until a new Blood Angel codex that incorporates all these changes get released. Thats the nice thing about playing Marines, you get a few armies rolled into one and you can easily "test-drive" the rules for other Marine armies. All you need is the correct codex and you are good to go!

[Captain Idaho]

aye, look at this way, its almost certain a DA codex will be made for 5th edition! after all, they got 2 for 3rd, one for 4th while other armies got single for each!

im getting optimistic! i may even take Assault Terminators with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields now! what a great counter foil for units like Bloodletters , Holwing Banshees and Genestealers!

[Syphid]

Lol, in the meantime I'll be using the new infiltrate rules for my DA scouts, and 3+ inv SS with my terminators... No way I'm missing out on that.

[King Tiger]

NOT Tu’shan – his name is Vulkan Estan he is the ex-4th Company Captain and is a kind of wandering champion. Apparently he has almost inquisition like leverage over the Salamander Chapter, as his task is to seek out and recover 9 holy relics made by Vulkan before he disappeared. Apparently if all 9 are recovered Vulkan will return. Estan has recovered 3 and is using them. One is a Salamander Hide Cloak, one is a Gauntlet which counts as a Heavy Flamer and allows him to re-roll to wound. The third is the Spear of Vulkan - a S6 master crafted power weapon.

On top of this he allows any and all Salamanders in the army to replace their “vanilla” Combat Tactics with the Salamanders version – they get Master Crafted Thunder Hammers for free. All Melta/flamer weapons in the army, no matter their source, count as twin linked – also for free.

WOW, he sounds mightly cool indeed.................why did I start ultras

In addition (this is a general marine rule) Storm Shields now grant a 3+ Inv. Save against shooting and combat. And all Salamanders Terminator Assault squads come with them, and there thunder hammers are master crafted if Estan is present.

holy mother of jesus, terminators have finally become what they always should of been, A BIG THREAT

-Tac squads can have any number of marines - from 5 to 10, but can only have special/heavy weapons if you take a full 10 man squad. They can be split into combat squads during deployment. To make up for the "must have 10 for special/heavies" rule flamers, missile launchers, multi-meltas and heavy bolters are now FREE - you only pay points to take the rest of the options.
-3 Dread options - Standard, Venerable, and Ironclad - all separate elite entries. Venerables are back to how they used to be and have WS/BS 5. Ironclads have 13/13/10 armour, can take 2x DCCW, Hurricane bolter, twin linked heavy flamer, and some others, I forget now. It also has a rule which could be a weapon option called the "seismic hammer" which counts as a thunder hammer and allows difficult terrain tests to be re-roll as it batters terrain out of the way.
-Dreads are crazy now weapons include - Assault Cannon, Multi Melta, twin Heavy Bolters, twin Heavy Flamers, twin las cannon, twin autocannon, plasma cannon, DCCW, Missile Launcher, and maybe more I have forgotten. Oh, and AT LEAST the twin autocannon can be purchased for BOTH arms.
-Sternguard vets have DW style ammo, 2 can take special/heavies/special CCW - Including HEAVY FLAMERS. For +5pts each they can also take ANY combi weapon - and still keep the specialist ammo type.
-Vanguard vets are similar but are combat-heavy and can have jump packs as an option. Interestingly, they can be further upgraded to "Honour Guard" if you take a Company Master.
-Scouts and Characters can take Combi-Grenade launchers, which are the same as they used to be but are now RAPID FIRE.
-Crusader is now cheaper but does not come with the multi-melta - but this can be purchased as a pintle mounted weapon - possible for ALL land raiders. Redeemer flame cannons are S6 AP3 but are NOT inferno cannons - the template has to touch the weapon - however the machine spirit now allows each weapon on the raider to fire at a separate target.

holy crud holy crud holy crud HOLY CRUD
HOLY CRUD
.............................................I need to change

I've NEVER been so excited about Marines, GW have actually done something RIGHT

[Brother_Dan'l]

And I heard that if the marine players fills his FOC he automatically wins AND gets to take home his opponents army.

It all sounds a little too good to be true. Not that I dislike all the concepts, just that it will bring out the biggest wave of Marine hate the web has ever seen if even half of that stuff comes true.

[pwrserge]

Other than being a bit dissapointed by combat tactics, I like what I hear. Sounds like the thunderhammer terminator squad is back with a vengence after the stupidity of 3rd and 4th ed. Does anyone else see the potential for utter horror in a 5 man thunder hammer squad led by Calgar?

[The Defiler]

It all sounds a little too good to be true. Not that I dislike all the concepts, just that it will bring out the biggest wave of Marine hate the web has ever seen if even half of that stuff comes true.

Yep, same here...

I do love Space Marines, but that's way too much... Such an army would be unstoppable/unbeatable... and somehow boring to play against...
But, hey, GW has to sell minis... so... maybe these rumours ARE totally true !



the def' ,
and I remember a year and half ago, saying the DA codex was a sad joke... I just cannot wait to see what's happening to the Space Wolves.. They gonna be even better than regular SM if JJ's writing their codex... (he loves puppies, not angels, remember that !)

[pwrserge]

He may like wolves, but he liked guard too and we all know how THAT turned out. I'm just crossing my fingers and praying that they keep Jervis he hell away from any books that I have armies for.

[Gentlemanloser]

Such an army would be unstoppable/unbeatable...

Play against Daemons with the Skulltaker and Bloodletters while promising not to use Mystics and Psycannons.

[King Tiger]

He may like wolves, but he liked guard too and we all know how THAT turned out.

yep, he made a very easy to use and read codex, that allowed some rather nasty combos in there lists, so the wolf codex done by him, would be a masterpiece.

This post has been edited by King Tiger: Jul 4 2008, 10:40 PM

[pwrserge]

Back on topic though...

I was hoping for a bit more from combat tactics. Not necessarily power wise (the proposed version is rediculous in that regard.) I had just hoped for a bit of flavor.

This post has been edited by pwrserge: Jul 4 2008, 10:23 PM

[The Emperor'...]

I like the part where he was all excited about the Dreadnought weapons. I guess he's too new to remember when we used to have all those
Granted we couldn't go Mortis, but hey *shrug*

I could believe the Land Raider Spirit letting you split fire. That would FINALLY explain the Land Raider Helios.

In summary I'd just like to say HOLY CHRISTWAGONS! It's a grand time to be a Space Marine player!

[Night Stalker]

looks like i will use codex space marines :> looks like full of cheese

[Captain Idaho]

did anyone elses mouths start involuntarily salivating when they read about the Dreads...?

[pwrserge]

I needed a bucket under my chin... OOOH 2x DCCW AV13 dreads...