The 2 unnamed Legions, will they ever be revealed?

[Chris186]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but do you think that the 2 original legions that have never been named, will be revealed, or even alluded to in the HH series of books? have they ever been referenced in any GW fluff? I assume they keep them unnamed so gamers can create their own original legions, but it is an intriguing part of the SM history.

[c-wrex]

Nope. GW wants the community to have at it with those two.

[FerrumIgnatus]

I don't believe GW will ever fill the gap about the two missing legions, but there are numerous rumours on what have become of them. One of my favourite -but slightly un-realistic- theories is that one of the two lost legions scared the bejesus out of the 'Nids so that they fled into our galaxy. Another theory I've heard is that the two lost legions have established a "new" imperium in another Galaxy, free from those pesky Orks, nibbly 'Nids, menacing Necrons, arrogant Eldar, traitorous Chaos and dumbfolded Tau.

 

There will always be that "Missing two Legions" gap in the Space Marine Codexes, so that those marine player always will have something to build their own Legion Fluff on...

[Ravingbantha]

I always thought that those 2 legions were completly wiped out, there's not much other reason for their names to be strickened. Obvously betrayal dosen't get your name taken off the list, so it was either something worse then Joining horus, or they were completly killed off. Even so that would be kinda harsh punishment for a chapter. So it begs the question what could a Chapter do that was so bad that their names were forever stricken from the books? Perhaps they were sent away to return at a later date, sort of like a secret weapon. Or perhaps all data on them was simply erased

[Focslain]

As for references to the two missing legions in GW fluff I can recount two events in the Horus Heresy series of them.

 

First is in the dream sequence in the Emperor's Lab while Horus was healing on Davin. There is reference to him 'sensing the lost potential' of the occupent of one of the tubes. Later he is shown hitting one of the tubes and later another was bashed when they were drawn into the warp.

 

The next reference is in the short story Lightning Tower and I believe the scene shows Dorn in a plaza with twenty podeums all but two have statues and those of the traitor primarchs are covered with sheets.

 

Other then that I don't know of anymore.

[DuskRaider]

The explanation is actually quite simple. The guy in charge of keeping the records spilled his coffee all over the documents, and BLAM! Lost Legions...

[Eirik_Xenobane]

The theory I subscribe to id the Primarchs for the misisng two legions died before they where recovered. They where probably then disbanded and their marines sent to other legions.

[Jarulek]

The theory I subscribe to id the Primarchs for the misisng two legions died before they where recovered. They where probably then disbanded and their marines sent to other legions.

 

It's known that they were found and fought during the Great Crusade, their statues were present in the gallery beneath the Imperial Palace but were later removed.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

The theory I subscribe to id the Primarchs for the misisng two legions died before they where recovered. They where probably then disbanded and their marines sent to other legions.

 

It's known that they were found and fought during the Great Crusade, their statues were present in the gallery beneath the Imperial Palace but were later removed.

 

Does it actually state somewhere that they were removed? It could be that they were never made/put it place?

[Kurasuke]

I've heard several times that GW lost the employees who created those legions so they lost the copyright. I am not totally sure of this, however.

[Jarulek]

I've heard several times that GW lost the employees who created those legions so they lost the copyright. I am not totally sure of this, however.

 

You're probably thinking about the 5th Chaos God Malal. I've heard numerous reasons why GW never cleared that story up, never hear that one. I believe it started to let players make their own legions and fluff. But now I think that they just keep the mystery and speculation alive, since we now have numerous renegade chapters. Maybe it's time for GW to clear this thing up.

 

@ Lucifer

 

It states their nameplates were removed. So we can assume that they were found and that their names were known.

[Daeothar]

They were originally left out, just to add some mystique to the whole thing. I mean; 10,000 years of history is bound to casue some loss of data, even in the far future, which was probably the whole idea behind the fact. This was way before the Horus Heresy was anything other than something out of myth and history, only touched upon by the games Space Marine and Horus Heresy.

 

Only later, people began to wonder, when the history and events were slowly built up into a coherent universe, what happened to the two missing Legions. This was because we received so much info on the other Legions, that it seemed odd that absolutely nothing was known about the two.

 

We can't look for meaning in every small fraction of official fluff either, as individual writers have different views on the matter and will leave contradicting clues in their work. One notable one is a short story, originally in Warhammer Monthly (if I recall correctly) where there is mention of the Iron Hearts and their Primarch Rubinek. This is the only place this info can be found and most probably there was just a small error on the writer's part, where he wrote Primarch instead of Chapter Master, which was overlooked.

 

Then there is the semi-official information that Sigmar of WHFB fame is actually a Primarch and that the Warhammer world is actually a world in the 40K universe (and there actually is compelling information that this might be the case). This once was an official angle but has since been abandonned. However, at times some references are still being made, one of the better known ones the treasure objects that could be claimed in the WHFB Albion summer campaign of a couple of years ago. These consisted of Boltpistols, Powerfists etc.

 

I doubt there will ever be an official revelation regarding the lost legions, no matter how extensive the iniformation is on the rest of Imperial history. In several books, there is mention of erasure squads venturing deep within the archives of Terra, incinerating certain tomes that contain historical data deemed too dangerous by whomever in power gave the order to erase it. most probably, that is how the information of the two Legions got destroyed and lost for posterity.

 

This topic has been raised so many times, we're running out of horses to club though, so perhaps trying Searchy will help you finding more opinions (and that's all they ever are!) on the subject since this topic pops up just about every fortnight or so...

[Bigger-than-Jesus]

There's also mention in legion of a Primarch overstepping their bounds Make of that what you will.

[DeffWolf]

i like the idea of mystery in 40k as it kinda adds depth. but thinking about it it posts the idea that 40k is near the end of the galaxy so all could be revealed?

[Pacific81]

Interestingly at the recent Gencon in the UK, during an interview and when asked about this subject, apparently Abnnett said that he and some others had some ideas about the Lost Legions, but had not discussed it with GW as to whether it will ever be taken any further....

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

Revenant has some interesting ideas about the last two in the greatest of 40k fanfics, Rise of the Tau.

 

In a nutshell, the Emperor made them Pariahs and then when he realized the horror he had created, he put them into stasis until he could figure out what to do with them.

[jamsight]

I was told by my local GW manager it is a nod to the Roman Legions, One betrayed the empire and the other was wiped out as for who they are it was never writtern coz some old long fang would have remember by now who they are . They just keep it there as a what if, like the Heresy before the novels came out

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

hey jamsight, thats what i was told also.

something about how the roman legions exploits are recorded, with the exception of 2 which were totally erased from history.

 

wolf lord kieran

[Pacific81]

I believe this was what was originally intended, but I believe that this will evolve into something. We are getting more and more titbits of information, and now Abnett has at least acknowledged it I would say it stands more chance than ever of being revealed..

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

They were originally left out, just to add some mystique to the whole thing. I mean; 10,000 years of history is bound to casue some loss of data, even in the far future, which was probably the whole idea behind the fact. This was way before the Horus Heresy was anything other than something out of myth and history, only touched upon by the games Space Marine and Horus Heresy.

 

Only later, people began to wonder, when the history and events were slowly built up into a coherent universe, what happened to the two missing Legions. This was because we received so much info on the other Legions, that it seemed odd that absolutely nothing was known about the two.

 

We can't look for meaning in every small fraction of official fluff either, as individual writers have different views on the matter and will leave contradicting clues in their work. One notable one is a short story, originally in Warhammer Monthly (if I recall correctly) where there is mention of the Iron Hearts and their Primarch Rubinek. This is the only place this info can be found and most probably there was just a small error on the writer's part, where he wrote Primarch instead of Chapter Master, which was overlooked.

 

Then there is the semi-official information that Sigmar of WHFB fame is actually a Primarch and that the Warhammer world is actually a world in the 40K universe (and there actually is compelling information that this might be the case). This once was an official angle but has since been abandonned. However, at times some references are still being made, one of the better known ones the treasure objects that could be claimed in the WHFB Albion summer campaign of a couple of years ago. These consisted of Boltpistols, Powerfists etc.

 

I doubt there will ever be an official revelation regarding the lost legions, no matter how extensive the iniformation is on the rest of Imperial history. In several books, there is mention of erasure squads venturing deep within the archives of Terra, incinerating certain tomes that contain historical data deemed too dangerous by whomever in power gave the order to erase it. most probably, that is how the information of the two Legions got destroyed and lost for posterity.

 

This topic has been raised so many times, we're running out of horses to club though, so perhaps trying Searchy will help you finding more opinions (and that's all they ever are!) on the subject since this topic pops up just about every fortnight or so...

i never heard that thing about sigmar, if it were true, i'll bet u that the assault termies all used thunder hammers.

 

but if it were true, that WHFB to place on a 40k planet, then why arent the orks using their stuff?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I believe this was what was originally intended, but I believe that this will evolve into something. We are getting more and more titbits of information, and now Abnett has at least acknowledged it I would say it stands more chance than ever of being revealed..

but, in the long term would that be a good thing?

 

what ever book it is that reveals the truth, will sell monumentally compared to everything else, but will that hurt the game and player fluff and fanfics, causing some players to leave? possibly, i myself would be outraged, if GW did something that ruined my well thought out fluff for my armies.

[Hobo Willie]

but if it were true, that WHFB to place on a 40k planet, then why arent the orks using their stuff?

 

Feral Orks, sir. The same could be said about the Exodite Eldar and their lack of Shuriken weapons. But such things may have been forgotten.

[BrianBlessed]

I like the Sigmar theory best myself.

 

It was all nice and dandy there being two missing legions, until they started writing the Horus Heresy series.

 

They have expanded on the Hous Heresy so much I think it would be hard to base your DIY chapter on a missing legion, cos you can't write them in to the Horus Heresy History. They will have missed every major event.

[Chris186]

I like the Sigmar theory best myself.

 

It was all nice and dandy there being two missing legions, until they started writing the Horus Heresy series.

 

They have expanded on the Hous Heresy so much I think it would be hard to base your DIY chapter on a missing legion, cos you can't write them in to the Horus Heresy History. They will have missed every major event.

 

thats pretty much what sparked my question, i understand that they left the 2 legions unamed to allow Gamers ( like myself :mellow: ) to create their own original Legion, but with all the HH books, its seems strange to have no mention of them at all, sure they could be off fighting in the Segmentum Obscurus or somewhere else out of the way, but youd think that they would at least merit a mention.

[lunawolf01]

the two missing legions were :

 

the star hippies : numbering only 10001 with there primarh MAD Harry Hemp... the legion was destroyed when harry led a rebellion after the emperor illegalized many harmfull drugs

 

the cute fuzzie bunnies , led by the great primarch hugo hephner known for there great looks and wild labedo, there legion was lost after all of there legion contracted a very lethal std.

 

 

 

Thats my story and im sticking to it.