DH "Gotcha" FAQ, Quick Ref to DH Codex RAW Quirks Options

[Marid]

An Unofficial List of Daemonhunter Codex Rules Gotchas

T

he purpose of this list is to point out some significant and not so significant variations between rules in Codex: Daemonhunters (DH) and rules in the 5th Ed. Warhammer 40k Rule Book (BBB) and other “modern” codexes, especially Codex: Space Marines (SM) and Codex: Imperial Guard (IG). In the current climate of “Codex trumps BBB” many rules, units, and equipment vary between codexes—sometimes drastically. This list is intended merely as an aid for DH players so that they are prepared to point out such differences before gameplay. Note that in some instances the DH rule would be considered a boon and in other cases a bane.

Codex Trumps Rulebook
GW has made it mostly clear that unless a codex's FAQ says otherwise, we should use the rules in our codex. There are at least three statements concerning Codex vs. Rulebook variations in rules in the BBB. The first, concerning smoke launchers on p. 62 reads, "As normal, the rules in the Codex take precedence." Later, in the section on Universal Special Rules (p. 74) it states that "... if any of the Codexes include one of these special rules and the rule is different, the one in the Codes takes precedence ..." Finally, on p. 289 concerning army lists, the support continues: "in the event of any contradiction between this section and any of the individual codexes, the codexes always take precedence."

Comments to the effect that Codex Trumps Rulebook continue in at least one FAQ. The comment about dedicated transports in the BBB Oct, 2008 FAQ p. 4 states that rules in a codex should be followed: "... if a Codex clearly says that dedicated transports can only be used during the game by the unit that bought them, that overrules the general rule in the rulebook, as normal. " The final emphasis is mine.

These statements all imply that the rules in a codex are the standard ruleset for its army.

Grey Knight Special Rules
The following clarifications result directly from the current 40K 5th Edition FAQ, which states that references to rules or conditions that no longer exist or are applicable in 5th edition should be totally ignored.

* Rites of Exorcism: References to daemonic instability and instability tests should be ignored except where Daemonic Adversaries as provided in the DH Codex are concerned. Daemons in other codexes no longer take instability tests.
* Rites of Exorcism: Because daemons assaulting Grey Knights units are required to take a difficult terrain test when assaulting, they will fight at Initiative 1 in the first round of close combat (unless they have assault grenades -- like frag grenades -- or their equivalent).
* Daemonic Infestation: This rule no longer has any application because the Sustained Attack special scenario rule no longer exists. Sustained Attack was a scenario rule in the 4th edition BRB.

What units are considered Daemons for the purposes of a DH army?
The DH codex, p. 20, provides a non-exclusive list that defines those units that were considered daemons at the time of publication of Codex: DH. Additionally, all models in Codex: Chaos Daemons are Daemons as stated on p. 27 of that newer codex.

Retinues
A GK Hero, Inquisitor Lord, or Inquisitor is not an Independent Character as long as he has a surviving Retinue, which he cannot leave. This means that he functions as an upgrade member of a unit and cannot be singled out in close combat. Some (newer) codexes do not use Retinues. Characters in those codexes follow IC rules for close combat.

Orbital Strikes
(In)accuracy for Orbital Strikes works as described in Codex: DH. The rules for (In)accuracy of Orbital Strikes in Codex: Witch Hunters are FAQ’d to follow the scatter rules described in the BBB.

Dedicated Transports
Transports bought for a unit may not be used by any other unit. They are truly “dedicated.” This is not the case for transports in many other codexes.

Land Raiders
* Land Raider Crusaders may fire their Hurricane Bolters regardless of how far they move. This means a LRC, with POTMS, can normally fire all but one of its standard weapons even after moving 12”. This rule does not exist in the SM Codex.
* Grey Knight Land Raiders carry fewer models than their SM counterparts. The GK LR can carry 10 and the GK LRC can carry 15 (8 terminators). The SM LR can carry 12 and the SM LRC can hold 16.
* Land Raiders taken as transports by Inquisitors do not benefit from the Power of the Machine Spirit (PotMS) special rule.

Rhinos
* Only one model may fire from a Rhino’s single fire point. SM Rhinos allow two passengers to fire.
* A DH Rhino does not have the Repair special rule. The WH Rhino and SM Rhino do. (F)
* If someone fires from a Rhino and any passenger has armor of 4+ or worse the Rhino is counted as open-topped (DH p. 30). This rule no longer exists in the SM codex.

Chimeras
* The six hull-mounted lasguns provide no benefit for either DH Chimeras (DH p30) or IG Chimeras (IG p99).
* A DH Chimera has two fire points. The IG Chimera has five fire points.
* A DH Chimera does not have the option of choosing a pintle-mounted heavy stubber.
* A DH Chimera is not amphibious or a command vehicle. The IG Chimera is.
* IG Chimeras have the option to take Camo Netting, which DH Chimeras cannot.

Vehicle Armory
* Smoke Launchers reduce all penetrating hits to glancing hits. BBB Smoke Launchers grant 4+ cover saves.
* The Assault Cannon mounted on either a GK LRC or GK Dreadnought is Heavy 3. The SM AC is Heavy 4 Rending. (F)
* Dozer blades may be used by DH and WH vehicles as long as they do not move more than 6". An IG or SM vehicle may travel any distance and still benefit from a dozer blade.

Weapons and Wargear
* DH Force Weapons cause opponents to be “slain outright.” In the BBB Force Weapons can cause Instant Death, which Eternal Warrior prevents. A RAW interpretation is that DH Force Weapons ignore the Eternal Warrior rule.
* DH Psychic Hoods have unlimited range. The SM Psychic Hood is limited to 24”.
* DH Storm Shields grant only a 4+ invulnerable save and may only be used in assaults and against only one opponent. RAW, this means the SS save may only be used against wounds generated from a single model during CC. SM Storm Shields grant a 3+ nonspecific invulnerable save.
* A DH Storm Shield counts as a weapon (DH p. 16). It might therefore grant an additional attack if it also counts as a CCW, which is not actually stated. Note that the rules concerning THs in the BBB p. 42 explicitly state that a model must have two THs to gain a bonus attack. While one may argue that a SS counts as a CCW, it is not a TH and will not grant a bonus attack to a model with the usual TH/SS configuration. A SM Storm Shield does not grant a bonus attack.
* A DH Thunder Hammer causes a model wounded by it to be unable to attack until the end of the next assault phase (effectively slowing them to “Initiative 0” in the next phase). This allows the possibility that a model struck round after round would never again be able to attack. The SM Thunderhammer lowers the stricken model’s initiative to 1. In the next phase each model would then strike simultaneously at Initiative 1.
* A DH Thunder Hammer causes a bonus 'crew shaken' result when it hits a vehicle. A SM TH must hit and then glance or penetrate to cause the bonus 'crew shaken' result.
* Bionics in the DH Codex grant a 1 in 6 chance that a model killed will return to play in the next round with a single wound. In later codexes, bionics grant an additional save to be taken if a model fails its armor save except under certain conditions (melee attacks that do not allow saves and instant death attacks). Bionics was removed from SM Codex in the 2008 edition.
* DH Teleport Homers provide no benefit as written since the codex describes an old blast template rule for teleporting. The new version prevents scatter if the first teleporting model is placed within 6” of the homer.
* DH Digital Weapons grant an extra Initiative +2, Strength 4, hits on 4+ attack in close combat. SM digital weapons allow a re-roll of a failed roll to wound in close combat.

Allies
A number of units in the IG and SM codexes were removed or have changed since publication of the DH and WH Codexes. The recently published IG FAQ addresses this. The list of allied units available on DH p30-31 should now read:
Troops
* Space Marine Tactical Squad
* 0-1 Space Marine Scout Squad
* Imperial Guard Infantry Platoon
Fast Attack
* 0-1 Space Marine Assault Squad †
* 0-1 Space Marine Land Speeder Squadron †
* 0-1 Space Marine Bike Squadron †
* 0-1 Armored Sentinel or Scout Sentinel Squadron ‡
* 0-1 Rough Rider Squad ‡
Heavy Support
* 0-1 Space Marine Devastator Squad †
* 0-1 Space Marine Land Raider †
* 0-1 Space Marine Predator †
* 0-1 Space Marine Dreadnought †
* 0-1 Leman Russ Battle Tank ‡
Note that this allows only a single basic Leman Russ Battle Tank and not a squadron or other variants.

Upgrade characters for allowed allied IG and SM units are permitted. This is explicitly stated in the IG FAQ and by extension assumed true for SM upgrade characters.

(F) The French-language DH codex uses the latter rule.

A PDF version of this list is available from here.

This post has been edited by Marid: Dec 2 2009, 02:07 AM

[Gentlemanloser]

The DH Thunder Hammer causes models wounded by it to strike at the end of the next assault phase. This is opposed to striking at Initiative 1 on the next assault phase.

Just to clarify, if the DH TH hits you before you've attacked that round (and doesn't kill you), you don't get to attack again until the round after (you attack again the *next* round, and lose the change to attack in the current round), so you can potentially keep something 'stunlocked' until it dies.

One thing that causes arguements and bad feeling. But hey, it's our Codex rule. Old and outdated it may be, but GW have told us to use it.

This post has been edited by Gentlemanloser: Oct 19 2008, 11:32 PM

[Marid]

The DH Thunder Hammer causes models wounded by it to strike at the end of the next assault phase. This is opposed to striking at Initiative 1 on the next assault phase.

Just to clarify, if the DH TH hits you before you've attacked that round (and doesn't kill you), you don't get to attack again until the round after (you attack again the *next* round, and lose the change to attack in the current round), so you can potentially keep something 'stunlocked' until it dies.

One thing that causes arguements and bad feeling. But hey, it's our Codex rule. Old and outdated it may be, but GW have told us to use it.

Noted, and fixed above.

[jakehunter52]

You know, I actually like what you are doing there Marid. If we compile all the differences between us and SM and print it out on a sheet for opponents to read beforehand, it might make for better games. Plus, outlining it like that makes all the positives we gained not broken because of all the negatives as well, which is about even. Oh and unlike the SM codex, we can claim the additional attack for two close combat weapons from our storm shields.

[Arkaniss]

But I can see more inquisition armies than Blood Angels'one for example.

I collect both these armies!

I'll admit to chickening out here. I've not used my Grey Knight models in 5th Edition at all. Been working on and using my Blood Angels instead.

That said, i think a document of some kind the likes of which Marid is constructing is a grand idea! It'd be helpful for opponents and also us - as it can be confusing using one codex one day and another the next. Especially when there are such inconsistencies between some depending on their age.

[revnow]

@Marid: On the Land Raider Crusader entry, you need to change it to the Hurricane bolters may fire no matter how far the LRC has moved. If the Crusader is shaken it may still only fire one weapon (ie one of the hurricane bolters) with PotMS.

[Marid]

Thanks, Revnow and Jakehunter52. Changes made.

I'll keep making updates for awhile. When we are happy I'll make a PDF for download.

[ferrous]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought our codex says something about the rhino having one firepoint that two models can fire out of?

[Marid]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought our codex says something about the rhino having one firepoint that two models can fire out of?

Unfortunately the DH Codex doesn't say anything about the number of models that may fire from a Rhino's fire point. The BBB says that generally only one model may use a fire point.

I also don't see anything about the Rhino Repair special rule yet.

This post has been edited by Marid: Oct 21 2008, 04:06 AM

[Sahansral]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought our codex says something about the rhino having one firepoint that two models can fire out of?

Unfortunately the DH Codex doesn't say anything about the number of models that may fire from a Rhino's fire point. The BBB says that generally only one model may use a fire point.

I also don't see anything about the Rhino Repair special rule yet.

Rhinos get the repair special rule in the WH/DH FAQs.

About fire points: Does the english WH codex state how many modell may fire from one fire point?

[Marid]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought our codex says something about the rhino having one firepoint that two models can fire out of?

Unfortunately the DH Codex doesn't say anything about the number of models that may fire from a Rhino's fire point. The BBB says that generally only one model may use a fire point.

I also don't see anything about the Rhino Repair special rule yet.

Rhinos get the repair special rule in the WH/DH FAQs.

About fire points: Does the english WH codex state how many modell may fire from one fire point?

In the 2004 printing of the WH Codex Rhinos got the Repair rule. The rule does not appear in the 2008 DH FAQ.

The codex does not specify how many models may fire either.

[Marid]

Second list deleted. See the first post for the list.

This post has been edited by Marid: Oct 26 2008, 08:41 AM

[Arkaniss]

I don't know if its still available - but the Wargear book had the entry showing firepoints allowing 2 models to fire from it. I've not been into GW for ages so i'm not sure if its still around.

[Marid]

I don't know if its still available - but the Wargear book had the entry showing firepoints allowing 2 models to fire from it. I've not been into GW for ages so i'm not sure if its still around.

I have a copy of the Wargear book at home. I'll check it, but I'm not sure it is valid anymore. IIRC, Grey Knights were included in the SM section where the AC was Hvy 4 Rending. I hesitate using the Wargear book because the 5th Ed Book clearly shows the weaker AC in the the Forces of the Imperium.

[mortiferum]

Here is the most up to date list:

I belive you also need to include the GK Hero Retinue rule - The GKBC or GKGM is not considered an Independant Character when he is accompanied by a retinue. This means he cant be singled out in an assault

[jakehunter52]

Here is the most up to date list:

I belive you also need to include the GK Hero Retinue rule - The GKBC or GKGM is not considered an Independant Character when he is accompanied by a retinue. This means he cant be singled out in an assault

However, this is due to a change in the rulebook, not something that conflicts w/ rules of an item or unit of similar type. This list is really just about making sure the opponent knows hows our codex differs from current rules. But that is something cool that I like, makes sure that your GM is going to wipe out Abbaddon because he can't cut through the other termies fast enough!

[Marid]

I don't know if its still available - but the Wargear book had the entry showing firepoints allowing 2 models to fire from it. I've not been into GW for ages so i'm not sure if its still around.

I have a copy of the Wargear book at home. I'll check it, but I'm not sure it is valid anymore. IIRC, Grey Knights were included in the SM section where the AC was Hvy 4 Rending. I hesitate using the Wargear book because the 5th Ed Book clearly shows the weaker AC in the the Forces of the Imperium.

I checked the Wargear book. It does list the Rhino as having a two-man fire point. It also shows the Chimera as having six lasguns as well as only a single fire point. The problem with the Wargear book is that I don't know if it holds any weight in 5th Edition. Has anyone heard something official concerning its status? Otherwise I think we have to consider it obsolete.

[Marid]

Here is the most up to date list:

I belive you also need to include the GK Hero Retinue rule - The GKBC or GKGM is not considered an Independant Character when he is accompanied by a retinue. This means he cant be singled out in an assault

However, this is due to a change in the rulebook, not something that conflicts w/ rules of an item or unit of similar type. This list is really just about making sure the opponent knows hows our codex differs from current rules. But that is something cool that I like, makes sure that your GM is going to wipe out Abbaddon because he can't cut through the other termies fast enough!

I'll include it for now since I think the list is starting to look more like a "Beware of these gotchas in the DH Codex" list.

[mortiferum]

I'll include it for now since I think the list is starting to look more like a "Beware of these gotchas in the DH Codex" list.

It's shaping up very nicely - I plan on printing the summary up and handing it to my opponents during a pick up game for quick reference and so that there are no surprises mid game. I'd like to include page references for each of the difference so that I and my opponent can quickly find the relevant rule should there be any doubt. Any chance of adding them in, I've done the leg work below. For anyone interested here are the DH Codex page numbers:

p22, 23, 24 - Retinues
p30 - Dedicated Transport vehicles
p32 - Land Raiders / Crusaders
p30 - Rhinos
p30 - Chimera
p19 - Smoke Launchers / Assault Cannons
p17 - Force Weapon
p18 - Psychic Hood
p18 - Storm Sheild
p19 - Thunder Hammer

Chimera's - aren't the IG Codex versions also amphibious whilst DH/WH Chimeras are not?

Edit1:LR / LRC - Power of the Machine Spirit, IIRC, aren't DH ones (along with Codex SM) different to BT/DA and BA ones?

Edit2: perhaps you should split this from this thread (slightly off topic) and start a seperate one - if you did, I'd recommend that it gets stickied so that any potential new DH players are immediately aware of the variations.

This post has been edited by mortiferum: Oct 23 2008, 08:34 AM

[revnow]

@Marid: After some re-reading of the entry I think that the Thunderhammer explanation might be a bit confusing. The Thunderhammer cannot actually initailly prevent a unit from not hitting in a given phase since it strikes at I1. The Daemonhammer can against Daemons, which is noteworthy. It is neccesary to explain though that a model wounded by a thunderhammer from the DH codex strikes at the end of the next assault phase. As in after I1. If the model is then wounded again by the thunderhammer at I1, it does not recieve its attack.

[number6]

Also noteworthy:

* Teleport homers: Refers to 40K 3rd edition deep striking mechanics. This has never been Errata'd/FAQ'd so, technically, RAW-wise, they wouldn't function at all. (Though I can't think of anyone who would deny you use of them as described in Codex: Space Marines.)

* Bionics: Slightly different mechanics from what is seen in other more recent codexes. Instead of a straight-up saving throw, you get a 6+ save only after the model would otherwise be removed as a casualty.

[benmothershaw]

Also we have digital weapons which are different? (wargear)
I.e. doesn't allow reroll.

[Marid]

Excellent suggestions. I'll work them into the list after work this evening.

[Gentlemanloser]

@Marid: After some re-reading of the entry I think that the Thunderhammer explanation might be a bit confusing. The Thunderhammer cannot actually initailly prevent a unit from not hitting in a given phase since it strikes at I1. The Daemonhammer can against Daemons, which is noteworthy. It is neccesary to explain though that a model wounded by a thunderhammer from the DH codex strikes at the end of the next assault phase. As in after I1. If the model is then wounded again by the thunderhammer at I1, it does not recieve its attack.

Rev, that's why I said if the TH hits you before you've attacked in a round. It won't happen normally (Unless it's Daemonhammer versus Demons as you say) in the first round of combat, as the TH goes at one. But anything alive in the second round won't go again until after the TH hits, and if they live, they won't attack in that second round, but be forced to the third.

Where they then have to live past another round of TH attacks, before being forced to the forth. And stunlocked until either the TH fails to wound, or the mini in question dies.

[- 7eAL -]

[Stealing this list to update the Inquisition Project.]

... Oh hi everyone!