Ein Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Hey guys. I don't really post much here, but I may take a shot at correcting that, as I'm going to be working up a Salamanders army. Since Vulkan He'stan is practically a requirement for fluffy Salamanders rules, he's one of the first few things in my army I'm endeavoring to convert good and proper. I'd like to share where I'm at so far. :) The most important starting point for this is the art in the Codex, since it's really all I have to go on. I'd post it here, but I'm not sure how the rules are about such a thing, so if somebody tells me later on that it's okay, I'll edit an image from the codex into this post. For now, I trust you can all thumb through your (well-used) codex to take a peek at the picture. My first impulse after seeing the art in the codex was to use a Techmarine as a basis for the conversion. I thought it over a little while longer, and decided against it, largely because of the ridiculous amounts of cabling that generally layers a techmarine, and the fact that I'm a barely passable sculptor most of the time. Although I was put off by the techmarine idea, I did smash this doodle together really abruptly of the ideas in my head: http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkansketch.png I'd come back to this a week or two later and change a few things about the concept to be closer to the art. I think I sort've pictured Vulkan's armor being similar to that of a techmarine because they both share a common 2+ save and I didn't know how to depict Artificer armor adequately on a model. I do realize that AA is essentially just tooled-up power armor, but I thoughtthe techmarine armor looked better in concept because of the way it was crafted from segmented plates. This sort've gave me the impression of a drake or dragon's scales, so my goal thereafter was to find armor that looked sufficiently segmented. Since I wasn't going to convert off a techmarine, I set about looking for other models with this (MK 8?) segmented looking armor for Vulkan. I looked around for a while, and I did give the Master of the Chapter models some thought, but I just didn't like them enough for various reasons. The Master of the Arsenal, while having cool and fairly heavy looking armor, looked a little plainer than I really wanted. The Master of the Fleet would be a good choice, but I don't like the fact that he's holding his cape, as it doesn't allow for much variety in terms of posing him (though I did bitz order his hammer arm for a project down the road). The Master of the Watch has that axe that could probably be turned into a spear with a bit of effort, but I wasn't sure how to represent the Gauntlet at the same time (though now that I look at him, I have a few ideas if Sicarius is a wash). Lastly, the Master of the Recruits, while posed better than all of the other ones, just didn't seem like anything special. My decision to use the new Sicarius model stemmed from a couple things. The first is that, if you look carefully, you will notice he does have the segmented armor appearance on his power armor, where visible (such as his legs). Secondly, he comes in a lot of pieces, which should make converting him easier. Thirdly, I saw a bit of potential in posing him, though I came to realize after I got the model that I couldn't have him comfortably holding the spear across his torso. Lastly? Sicarius is a big dude next to your average Space Marine. He'll stand out nicely as an HQ. So, enough babbling. I'll start by throwing in some more photos: http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan1.jpg http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan2.jpg http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan3.jpg The first thing I set about doing was hacking off the left arm entirely at the shoulder. I did this because I didn't think the existing shoulder pad had much of a Salamanders aesthetic, and it would let me repose that arm for the Gauntlet of the Forge. It's a hard cut to make, even with a jeweller's saw, because of how integrated the cloak and shoulder pad are at the shoulder, but it's nothing that can't be fixed later on. Next, I grabbed my dremel and set about grinding off the ultramarine buckles on the front of his torso, as well as the roman-esque tassels that extended below the gutplate. This was covered up with greenstuff to make Vulkan's 'loincloth' and scales were then added overtop. The cloak on the back is another matter entirely. I came to realize that it's way, way too 'rippley' to properly sculpt scales on, so I've worked on smoothing the cloak out in larger sections.This enabled the addition of scales to the back similar to like what I have on the front. (We'll get to that in a minute) The helmet is a pretty standard piece for an HQ character, but it matches the one Vulkan has in the codex artwork. If I could get my hands on an old Maximus helmet, like what the red scorpions have, I'd probably prefer to use that instead, but for how I'm just going to use this one. The spear is something I've been working on. I did some digging in my bitz box and came up with what looks like an old force weapon from a 2nd-ed librarian that looks rather interesting: http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan4.jpg I'm considering using that weapon as the 'spear' part of Vulkan's weapon, because it's rather elaborate looking. The alternative would be to make and detail a styrene blade, which might be the better choice in the long run so that I can make the blade larger. Obviously the spear has a lot of work still to go, in any case. Now, let's take a peek at his back. I grabbed some greenstuff and liberally smattered scales on the back of Vulkan's cloak. I'm going to need to add about twice as much as what's on there before I'm done with the cloak, but I think it's looking alright. I'm considering just going over the whole cloak with some really watered down elmers glue before I paint in the hopes that it'll help these little globs of greenstuff stick better to the cape, because I'm worried that they might come off through handling. http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan5.jpg You can also see the Gauntlet of the Forge I've been working on. I've gone pretty simple with it. After digging through my older edition marine parts, I found a power fist that looked like a nice fit on power armor (rather than terminator armor) and an old flamer bit. I hacked the flamer up some and stuck it on the back of the glove, and with a bit of twisted wire 'attached' it to the mechanisms of the arm. Here's more pictures of it, as well as the shoulderpad I think I'm going to use on that arm: http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan6.jpg http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan7.jpg I may consider sculpting tiny flames onto the back of the gauntlet, but it's such a small area I might be better off painting it. I should probably warn that I work pretty slowly, because I am in graduate school and thus have very little free time... particularly these days, when finals are rearing their ugly heads. Still, I will be cranking away at this. I'd like to hear what you guys think so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 This is really well done. One of the best salamander-skin cloaks I've seen done on the boards, in part because it's so subtle. I can't say I like the helmet, though - it seems a little too large, and a Mk.IV helmet would likely fit better (and be more consistent with the artwork.) I really look forward to seeing this concept develop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vespasian Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 That sir, is amazing. Awesome scales, awesome use of the Sicarius miniature and awesome looking conversion in the making. Keep it up Brother Vespasian For a helmet use a Company Champion style helm- that just screams antique especially in a Salamanders newest tech army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 ... and a Mk.IV helmet would likely fit better (and be more consistent with the artwork.) I think these are the same as the Red Scorpions helmets I mentioned above, but they're not really readily accessible. I'm not going to drop money on Forgeworld kits just for a single helmet. For a helmet use a Company Champion style helm- that just screams antique especially in a Salamanders newest tech army I'm still a bit wet behind the ears as far as marines go - is the Company Champion helm the one with the knight-shaped front visor? (where it makes a V down the front) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Vespasian Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Yes, thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurasuke Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 You could get one that is effectively the same in a Black Templar upgrade sprue, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Cassern Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 What are you using for the helmet? And are you going to do anything with the right ( cloak ) shoulder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 What are you using for the helmet? And are you going to do anything with the right ( cloak ) shoulder? Haven't decided on a helmet yet. The right cloak and shoulder are going to be pretty simple, I think. I've done scales all along that edge, and I'm going to put a crux terminatus on the shoulder pad post where Sicarius' ultramarine icon usually sits, sort've mimicing the left shoulder on Vulkan in the art. I'm not really up for sculpting a drake's head over a shoulder pad - the scales are hard enough for me, as I'm more of a styrene guy than greenstuff. I'm open to ideas, though. Anyway, I put some more scales on the cloak. I might pull a couple off and replace them so they have a good density to them, but I think it'll look okay when it's all painted over. In hindsight, I probably should have smoothed over that rippley part to the right and below the backpack hardpoint, because it's a pain to get 'scales' in there. http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan8.jpg http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan9.jpg http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan10.jpg I'm intentionally trying to keep the scales from going all the way to the edges so that it matches the same coverage as the loincloth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wokkers Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 hooray for Ein on the B&C :) he looks ace so far. i look forward to seeing the completion of the spear in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrike22 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 WOW when my friend told me about this topic i thought :cuss? Using sicarius? but WOW that is great good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scolar Visari Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I think Ein you should take off lots of the cape scales from the latest picture so the cape looke like the first set of pictures, it has a subtle scaled effect in that one and looks tonnes better than the dotty cape it has become. Also you could use a stanley knife and square off the sides of the scales so they look more angular, I think these changes would vastly improve the model. Looking great so far :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 I think Ein you should take off lots of the cape scales from the latest picture so the cape looke like the first set of pictures, it has a subtle scaled effect in that one and looks tonnes better than the dotty cape it has become. Also you could use a stanley knife and square off the sides of the scales so they look more angular, I think these changes would vastly improve the model.Looking great so far :) You think the cape'd look okay with most of the shoulder and right side bare like that? I wasn't honestly for it, but the scales on the front do look much better than the ones I have on the back at the moment, and I'm trying to figure out why. Obviously, I'd prefer not pulling off all that tedious work and doing it over, but I'll give it some thought while I'm at work today. It just seemed strange to have that much 'bare' cloak; I figured the scales were tough as to afford him some protection, which is why he would bring it around his shoulder, so that he could grab it and use it to cover against fire. Well, I'm overthinking functionality rather than aesthetic. I'll look at this more when I get back from school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 This looks great thus far. Very nice. On the scales on cloak versus loincloth topic you're struggling with: I think it's a matter of density. The loincloth has a lot of closely-packed scales in a small area. the back center of the cloak has the same. But, as the scales move outward toward the edge of the cloak, they get farther and farther apart. This might be by design. Maybe whatever drake he skinned had fewer plates on its belly, and he aligned the spinal skin right over HIS spine. But, it does make the visual difference between the scales on front and on the cloak. Also notice that the cloak has folds and such at the shoulder. Would big old dragon scales fold along with the cloak, or remain rigid? That'd be a tough modelling challenge, folding scales. Perhaps you could fill the empty spaces between some of these outer scales with smaller ones, to increase the overall scale density on the cloak? I agree with the assessment that you'd want to keep the very edges clear of scales, as I think any hunter would remove them from the cloak edges when curing the hide. I can agree with Scolar Viscari, however, that the first set of pictures you shared do make the cloak look better. Fewer scales seems to be better. I think it's an "all or nothing" situation. Lots of scales (high density), or very few (low density). Your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Chaplain Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 wow, this thread is very promising-- i think you're conveying hestan very nicely, sicariu's ornate armor is perfect for the artificer armor. only thing im not sold on is the helmet (as others have stated) also, i think the flamer needs to be intergrated into the gauntlet more, like strapped/wired in on the sides? or sculpting a dragons maw over it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Mick Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Great idea and fantastic worked already cant wait to see a update again :P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 Based on the comments I've been getting on the cloak, I popped off about half of the scales - mostly the ones on the right shoulder and right half - and I'm redoing it. I dremelled down some of the ripples and folds in the cloak on the right side where I was having trouble, and resurfaced it smooth with greenstuff so that I'll hopefully have an easier time adding scales without worrying about how they sit over the creases. I'm probably going to try and keep the scale concentration dense around the backpack hardpoint, and thinning out as they move away from there. This means I'm going to be thinning them out and making them smaller as they come around to the shoulder. It's probably going to be trial and error. :P I'll get back with more on this tonight or tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbrad Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 As a fellow Vulkan builder I must say i like the use of Sicarius as a base, my own is much more like your concept using the Techmarine as a base. Love the loincloth although I'm not so sure with the main cloak. My interpretation was this was a scaled hide, the Sicarius cloak looks a bit .. well clothy. Gauntlet of the Forge looks a bit chunky on this model, something I had on my own which I've since bought more in line with the GW artwork. Nice work though love to see him with some paint on. PhilB :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 A quick photo pair: I smoothed the back of the cloak down a bit more, and plucked off some of the more uniform scales. I'm going to try filling them back in so they look a bit better varied. The flatter area on the right of the cloak now should make my life easier doing the scales. http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan12.jpg I dug a MK8 helmet out and put it on here just to get a look at it. The details on the one I have in particular seem a bit soft, but it's still a better head than what I had on there, I guess. http://www.fusedcreations.com/adam/vulkan11.jpg Looking at the gauntlet, I may make one or two other variants before I settle on a final version, because this does look a bit slapped on and clunky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminatorinhell Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 get that one iron warriors helmet that looks like the knights helmet with the slits on one side and the piping on the right side, itd look perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted December 2, 2008 Author Share Posted December 2, 2008 get that one iron warriors helmet that looks like the knights helmet with the slits on one side and the piping on the right side, itd look perfect! That might be wishful thinking. I remember ordering that piece for a Grey Knight HQ, but that was back when GW offered such things for bitz ordering. These days, there's no easy way to get my hands on one that doesn't involve getting stuck with a lot of stuff I don't want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asmodeus' Swordhand Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Great conversion. Coming together really well, although the spear looks like it might be a little thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Toddius Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Well, so far this model has WIN all over it. All the little details are really cool. I'd actually would leave the raised scales on the center portion of the cape, then paint more on until it fades in the cape altogether. It would keep it cleaner that way and give you a way to resolve the cape itself. The tabard is nearly flawless. The 2nd ed. PF and Handflamer conversion is awesome. I like the start of the spear as well. Good stuff :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunchBox Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 BLEH...in fact...DOUBLE BLEH!!! I was thinking about doing this conversion with Sicarus...after seeing yours, I know mine will dwell in suckitude. Excellent job...but I hate you a little for crushing my dreams! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DibbZi Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 This is turning out to be a good conversion! The BT helm on there is the one I used for mine, and it turned out great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryJohnny Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Looking at the gauntlet, I may make one or two other variants before I settle on a final version, because this does look a bit slapped on and clunky. If you're interested, here's what I did for my Gauntlet of the Forge: http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/AngryJohnnyWH40K/WIP/Anyon_003.jpg http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/AngryJohnnyWH40K/WIP/Gauntlet-of-the-Forge-001.jpg http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/AngryJohnnyWH40K/WIP/Gauntlet-of-the-Forge-002.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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