{Old idea up for review} The Bloodsworn

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Before I get into this too much I want to point out that this is all rough work. Very rough. I've had the idea for this chapter in my head for a fair while now but have only recently decided to put it to paper properly.

 

Overview.

 

Blood Angels geneseed.

Before we get into discussions on the viability of creating any more Blood Angels successors I'll just say that the Blood Angels have always been one of my top three favorite chapters. I say top three because they shuffle occasionally depending on my mood.

 

Martyrs.

They don't actively martyr themselves like the flagellants from Warhammer Fantasy might do, though they consider themselves servants to the Imperium and the Emperor beyond all else. If this means fighting a desperate last stand for a cause that would otherwise require a force to withdraw and regroup, this chapters marines will not. In other words they possess some of the Imperial Fists bloody-minded stubborn attitude. They consider themselves subhuman or abhuman rather than superhuman as other chapters may.

 

Themes.

 

Self-effacing attitude.

Dedication to service of the Imperium.

Discipline, this might seem like a given but take the concept of discipline to the extreme due to the blood curse.

'Good of the Many' attitude towards themselves, they will gladly sacrifice themselves for the good of a wider battlefront or campaign.

Introspection, they encourage their brothers to meditate and take time to look to themselves for days at a time. Meditation in the snowy landscape of their chapter fortress is considered essential to keep both self-discipline and to keep oneself mindful of their duty as servants of the Emperor. Being alone amongst the elements gives one a sense of being small and insignificant by comparison.

 

Dislikes.

 

Self-important attitudes. They take issue with other chapters who consider themselves supermen, worth more than any other of the Emperors servants.

This chapter perceive themselves as servants of the Emperor, and as such they serve all of the Emperors subjects, they are there to protect the Emperors realm and make the choice to do so. They choose knowingly their fate as protectors till death and nothing else. Attitudes of self-aggrandisement of position or status aggravate the self-effacing chapter.

 

- Brawlers, they do not have the same 'knightly honour' as other chapters, they are honourable, but more in a bare-knuckle fighter or bar-brawlers way, crude explanation but I'm still pinning it down to a better definition.

 

- They have a 'Clint Eastwood' mentality. When presented with Injustice and wrongdoing they deal with it in a way that makes sure it can never come back. However they will not be overly nice about it and do not engage in polite or political niceties. They are considered politically backward by other chapters.

 

- As brawlers the weapons they use are not typical of astartes. Instead of chainswords they use maces, axes and mauls. Some even make their gauntlets into 'knuckledusters' by affixing studs and spikes to them. (this is more an aesthetic tangent than anything else)

 

They are considered somewhat backward by some of the more arrogant and high and mighty chapters for this.

 

 

Possibilities.

 

Black Rage is helped through their meditation and introspection somewhat. Any who fall to the Rage are simply given the Emperors Mercy, being viewed as no longer able to serve the Emperor properly. They are no longer acting for the 'good of the many', but are in fact doing so by putting their wayward brothers out of their misery.

 

Perhaps less overall occurrence of Black Rage, but less time spent overall in the field due to increased time spent in meditation/introspection.

 

Possibly hired out as bodyguards? Being utterly dedicated as servants and viewing themselves as less than human perhaps they would make good guards, like the Space Wolf guards for the Astropath houses (hope I got that right).

 

 

Name ideas:

 

{The Pledged.

The Sworn.}

 

-Edit: Bloodsworn was chosen.

 

The Bloodsworn

 

Homeworld is a cold, snowy planet. Not much else in my mind as of yet.

 

Colour scheme is to be very much like the Pre-Heresy Luna Wolves, yet with typical BA styling.

 

Any thoughts are appreciated.

 

*Edit* Bloody typos.

[Codex Grey]

I've never been a big fan of the Blood Angels. There are certain aspects I like, but in the end, I just can't get myself to like the whole Vampire thing.

I have expressed this feeling before when someone else started a BA successor, and how I felt that the Black Rage and Red thirst are such huge burdens, that it's difficult to create anything other than Vampires in space, with small differences. People disagreed, but that's okay.

With these guys on the other hand, you downplay the Rage, going so far as to executing those who are affected. Suffice to say, I like it so far.

 

they consider themselves subhuman or abhuman rather than superhuman as other chapters may.

 

IMHO this is brilliant. And you don't even have to explain it, really. We've seen the arrogant warlords, we have seen the humble knights, we have seen the near-indifferent warriors, but I have never seen the Servant aspect played out as much as these guys.

 

The brawling style of them is very cool as well.

 

Black Rage is helped through their meditation and introspection somewhat.

I see that you're trying to reduce the cases of Rage and I personally feel this makes sense. Be prepared that people might not go for it, as it may seem as a 'cure' for the Black Rage, if you know what I mean.

 

I'm interested in seeing a bit more on the bodyguard thing, as I'm not exactly sure how that will work.

 

Looking forward to see more of these guys.

 

EDIT: also, before you mentioned their color scheme, I envisioned brown marines. Dirty, bloody, full of scars and damage, brown marines.

[Telveryon]

I seem to recall a chapter very much like this one minus a few quirks.

 

Possibly hired out as bodyguards? Being utterly dedicated as servants and viewing themselves as less than human perhaps they would make good guards, like the Space Wolf guards for the Astropath houses (hope I got that right).

Off all the ideas you presented, this is the only one I can't see working. Like it or not, they are Blood Angels successors, which means that in a tense situations the Black Rage might kick in. Having a guard that can go berserk at a rather inopportune moment is not a guard you'd want to keep around, in other words, Blood Angels successors are bad guards by definition.

 

Name ideas:

 

The Pledged.

The Sworn.

{The} Bloodsworn

 

The Bloodsworn sounds most cool! I'd go with that.

 

IMHO this is brilliant. And you don't even have to explain it, really. We've seen the arrogant warlords, we have seen the humble knights, we have seen the near-indifferent warriors, but I have never seen the Servant aspect played out as much as these guys.

I resent that! I would direct you attention to (if Grey Hunter Ydalir will excuse my shameless self-pluging in his thread) to the Will of the Lost!

 

The brawling style of them is very cool as well.

Now that's something I can agree with!

 

I see that you're trying to reduce the cases of Rage and I personally feel this makes sense. Be prepared that people might not go for it, as it may seem as a 'cure' for the Black Rage, if you know what I mean.

Actually the chapter I referenced before had a similar idea, it is perfectly workable if done well.

[ChaplainMathreyn]

Black Rage is helped through their meditation and introspection somewhat.

 

Perhaps less overall occurrence of Black Rage, but less time spent overall in the field due to increased time spent in meditation/introspection.

 

Nice. I Will argue that the Black Rage will trigger no matter what position you're in; Praying before battle, in the midst of a slaughter... While reading the newspaper, etc, but I like the semi-solution presented here. Nice. :huh:

 

How are you going to incorporate the Red Thirst?... Maybe I missed it, though...

 

*Edit* Bloody typos.

 

Heyo! Ba-dum-dum.

[Guest Mordray]

Commissar Molotov wrote up a 'rough' draft for a BA successor that had a similar take on the Black Rage...

 

I'm honestly not that sure what exactly the Red Thirst entails... off the BA forums!

[Codex Grey]

Interesting read. I missed most of Molotov's and Darrell's 'Chapter rush' when I was in the army. One thing in that topic that stuck out to me was Octavulg's notion that every Blood Angels successor is more or less defined by their quest for curing or controlling the Black Rage. Although I more or less agree, in the case of the Bloodsworn (catchy!) this is somewhat sidelined by the other themes, methinks. You should read through it though, Ydalir, maybe even take some inspiration from it.

 

I resent that! I would direct you attention to (if Grey Hunter Ydalir will excuse my shameless self-pluging in his thread) to the Will of the Lost!

With all due respect, that's a bit different. I mean they're skeletons, for Pete's sake! :P

 

And before I go, I just want to put it out there that if the whole BA gene-seed turns out to complicate things.... you could alway drop it, focus on the other themes and change their gene-seed to..... Ultramarines...

 

*Runs away*

[ChaplainMathreyn]

I've always been under the impression that the Red Thirst is an ongoing thing, the lust and urge to actually consume blood. While the Black Rage, while not only being a mental state of insanity, actually drastically increases the demands of the Red Thirst, which leads to Death Company members actually tearing enemies apart to "bathe in their blood", so to speak...

 

But, I coulda be wrong. I don't know! B)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Thanks for the comments guys. Now to get responding.

 

IMHO this is brilliant. And you don't even have to explain it, really. We've seen the arrogant warlords, we have seen the humble knights, we have seen the near-indifferent warriors, but I have never seen the Servant aspect played out as much as these guys.

 

The brawling style of them is very cool as well.

 

Now that's something I can agree with!

 

They like me, they really like me! ;)

 

Thanks Grey and Telveryon for the encouraging comments. I just had to get the praise out of the way before I deal with proper issues. ;)

 

I see that you're trying to reduce the cases of Rage and I personally feel this makes sense. Be prepared that people might not go for it, as it may seem as a 'cure' for the Black Rage, if you know what I mean.

 

That's right, reducing the Black Rage is the key here. I never intended it to be a 'cure' at all but I do understand how some people might not catch on there. I see it as being a way to keep the marines centered in themselves, to calm their thoughts and to be able to more objectively control the Rage somewhat. Obviously it cannot be fool-proof given the nature of the curse but the aim is to reduce the cases in the chapter.

 

One thing in that topic that stuck out to me was Octavulg's notion that every Blood Angels successor is more or less defined by their quest for curing or controlling the Black Rage. Although I more or less agree, in the case of the Bloodsworn (catchy!) this is somewhat sidelined by the other themes, methinks. You should read through it though, Ydalir, maybe even take some inspiration from it.

 

I agree with Octavulg's assessment and the meditation aspect of the chapter is meant to fill out that side of them. I didn't think that it would be sidelined by the others, though the idea of the rage being sidelined in a BA successor didn't occur to me at all, though I see now I might have to balance them out a bit more. Or perhaps integrate the 'quest' into the rest of their themes more fully. Something to think on.

 

I did also peruse Molotov's IA there and the themes present there are very similar to my own. I looked it over and did actually grab some inspiration from it. There are some things he has expanded upon that I was only thinking of in terms of possibilities so far. It's a good resource for me to see what path he took with that chapter and to allow me to take a step back and see where I want to go.

 

And before I go, I just want to put it out there that if the whole BA gene-seed turns out to complicate things.... you could alway drop it, focus on the other themes and change their gene-seed to..... Ultramarines...

 

*Runs away*

 

Yeah you'd better run! Ultramarines indeed..... Pfah! ;)

 

I've always been under the impression that the Red Thirst is an ongoing thing, the lust and urge to actually consume blood.

 

Honestly I've never really rated the Red Thirst at all. It's a cheesy link to Vampires and turns the Blood Angels from being tragic descendants of the most resplendent and progressive of primarchs into..... Vampires. The Black Rage works perfectly, turning the artistic, perfectionist, refined Angels into raging monsters. The Red Thirst has always been a bit much to me and I tend to try and minimize any mention of it at all.

 

I didn't mention it mainly because I'm not entirely sure how to fit it in and not have it become just as 'tack on' as the Red Thirst is for the BA.

 

 

But, I coulda be wrong. I don't know! B)

 

It's all about interpretation, that's how you interpret the Red Thirst and Black Rage, this is how I interpret it. But on another note that's why the chapter puts them out of their misery, they are no longer good servants of the Emperor if they just constantly want to maim and kill everything.

 

Nice. I Will argue that the Black Rage will trigger no matter what position you're in; Praying before battle, in the midst of a slaughter... While reading the newspaper, etc, but I like the semi-solution presented here. Nice. B)

 

Thanks. Though to a point I agree I think that battle would be the most obvious flash-point. Though in the fluff the Rage has always been brought on by either battle or the prayer before battle, where they actually force themselves to concentrate on their visions of death and whatnot in order to test themselves. Bit of a dance with the devil but then that's their choice.

 

Off all the ideas you presented, this is the only one I can't see working. Like it or not, they are Blood Angels successors, which means that in a tense situations the Black Rage might kick in. Having a guard that can go berserk at a rather inopportune moment is not a guard you'd want to keep around, in other words, Blood Angels successors are bad guards by definition.

 

It's true it's not the best of ideas. I was simply intrigued by their perseverance and total dedication to discipline within oneself. Perhaps though, this is a good one to be dropped. A berserk bodyguard would quite rightly not be the best at his job.

 

The Bloodsworn sounds most cool! I'd go with that.

 

Done and done. That was the best out of the three I agree, and I see Grey has caught on to it as well. Seems this is the preeminent choice!

 

I resent that! I would direct you attention to (if Grey Hunter Ydalir will excuse my shameless self-pluging in his thread) to the Will of the Lost!

 

So excused! There are some common themes here, it's true.

 

The way I was going about it was that the Bloodsworn view themselves as Astartes to be less than human, that their developed abilities and minds are in fact something that removes them from their humanity rather than being an evolutionary step forward for example. They see the choice of becoming an Astartes as one that you consciously make to remove yourself from the rest of humanity, to become a servant to the Emperor forever. To consider yourself more than any of the Imperiums citizens is a dark path to follow.

 

Thanks for the comments everyone! This has given me some food for thought.

[Ace Debonair]

Themes.

 

Self-effacing attitude.

Dedication to service of the Imperium.

Discipline, this might seem like a given but take the concept of discipline to the extreme due to the blood curse.

'Good of the Many' attitude towards themselves, they will gladly sacrifice themselves for the good of a wider battlefront or campaign.

Introspection, they encourage their brothers to meditate and take time to look to themselves for days at a time. Meditation in the snowy landscape of their chapter fortress is considered essential to keep both self-discipline and to keep oneself mindful of their duty as servants of the Emperor. Being alone amongst the elements gives one a sense of being small and insignificant by comparison.

 

Dislikes.

 

Self-important attitudes. They take issue with other chapters who consider themselves supermen, worth more than any other of the Emperors servants.

This chapter perceive themselves as servants of the Emperor, and as such they serve all of the Emperors subjects, they are there to protect the Emperors realm and make the choice to do so. They choose knowingly their fate as protectors till death and nothing else. Attitudes of self-aggrandisement of position or status aggravate the self-effacing chapter.

 

- Brawlers, they do not have the same 'knightly honour' as other chapters, they are honourable, but more in a bare-knuckle fighter or bar-brawlers way, crude explanation but I'm still pinning it down to a better definition.

 

- They have a 'Clint Eastwood' mentality. When presented with Injustice and wrongdoing they deal with it in a way that makes sure it can never come back. However they will not be overly nice about it and do not engage in polite or political niceties. They are considered politically backward by other chapters.

 

- As brawlers the weapons they use are not typical of astartes. Instead of chainswords they use maces, axes and mauls. Some even make their gauntlets into 'knuckledusters' by affixing studs and spikes to them. (this is more an aesthetic tangent than anything else)

 

They are considered somewhat backward by some of the more arrogant and high and mighty chapters for this.

 

 

Awesome. Just awesome. :)

 

They would appear to be the exact polar opposite of my work-in-progress chapter, the Red Lords - I bet that'd make for a tense alliance. :P

The Bloodsworn is a fantastic name, too. ;)

 

The only bit that confused me is the bit where you talk about the 'last stands' and stuff:

If this means fighting a desperate last stand for a cause that would otherwise require a force to withdraw and regroup, this chapters marines will not.

I'm not sure if you mean your marines won't retreat from the battle, or won't get involved.

I'm almost sure you mean the former, though.

 

Also, if they see becoming an astartes as a concious decision, how do they go about recruiting people?

That's not a criticism, by the way. I'm just intrigued. :P

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

lso, if they see becoming an astartes as a concious decision, how do they go about recruiting people?

It's more about the applicant making the decision for himself. They don't accept anyone who has not taken it upon themselves to travel to them (or however they gather their recruits, I haven't worked it out yet). No pressure from the community, no influence from parents or friends. The decision must be theirs and theirs alone.

It also mixes fairly well with the older customs, that you are a man when you turn thirteen for example, the age for that right of passage has only increased with the societal changes that have happened in the last few hundred years. It is admittedly a relatively slow process, but the chapter would have it no other way.

I'm almost sure you mean the former, though.

You got it.

I'm just intrigued.

Always a good sign! :lol:

EDIT: also, before you mentioned their color scheme, I envisioned brown marines. Dirty, bloody, full of scars and damage, brown marines.

That's intriguing and frankly, sounds more in character for these guys than the LW scheme I initially thought of. Perhaps you could be more on the money than I was. I'll have to do a few tests.

*Edit*

Here's a test I did based on what you said Grey, tell me what you think.

Also here is a small bit on the Homeworld culture as I see it.

- Westernised Shaolin monk-esque culture, heavily influenced here by the Jaffa from Stargate SG-1. Meditation and lifestyle and such a key component to affect the chapter. More Middle-Eastern than true Oriental eastern culture, but definitely possessing the more brutal traits of western culture, if that makes sense.

- Small towns and villages localised in the warmer areas of the world, valleys mostly between the windswept plains and snowbound colder regions.

- Very few effective militarily developed weapons, culture and conditions prohibiting. Maces, staffs, spears and axes being the most common. A towns warriors are trained extensively in hand to hand techniques. Not Kung-Fu esque, more brutal, probably like Pankration or Kickboxing. Really any combination of western martial arts. Nothing flashy, just practical and brutal.

- Skirmishes between villages and towns are rare but brutal. Key word here is brutal it seems. A greater concern than other towns is helping the community survive the more immediate concerns. Only conflicts arise when two settlements require the same resource or some such, in which case the communities warriors are sent to best the other.

Obviously that is too much information that really needs to be cut down from what can be drawn from it.

As an aside, if your interested. The song I identify with these guys is the version of 'All Along the Watchtower' by Bear Mccreary as part of the soundtrack to the 'new' Battlestar Galactica series.

[Ace Debonair]

Here's a test I did based on what you said Grey, tell me what you think.

I dunno what Grey thinks, but I like it - that colour set-up is almost exactly what I pictured when reading the chapter's details. :)

Would the more important marines have robes/tabards in the same colour as the cloth your tactical marine has?

That might be a bit too monk-ish for your chapter, so feel free to discard this suggestion as you see fit.

The culture stuff for the chapter also sounds genuinely cool. This is one of those ideas where I'm sat here going "hey, why didn't I think of that?" :D

Also, I'm all for the traditional melee weapons in place of chainswords. Great stuff.

[Codex Grey]

Here's a test I did based on what you said Grey, tell me what you think

Too much color IMHO. I see the Bloodsworn as brutal and gritty, not flashy.

I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty, but here is how I envisioned them.

Mainly brown with some black thrown in to give a dark and gritty look. Changed eye lences to yellow, as I quite liked the combination of yellow and brown, and yellow cloth is something that I think would look good on certain members of the Chapter, to give them a bit of monkish look as well. White markings to provide some contrast to the dark colors. Helmet stripe is there mainly because I think they are a good way to add something extra to an otherwise simple scheme. Could represent rank or just be part of the standard uniform. Finish it all off with mud, soot and blood.

Very few effective militarily developed weapons, culture and conditions prohibiting. Maces, staffs, spears and axes being the most common. A towns warriors are trained extensively in hand to hand techniques. Not Kung-Fu esque, more brutal, probably like Pankration or Kickboxing. Really any combination of western martial arts. Nothing flashy, just practical and brutal.

This made me think about Batman's martial art.

Keysi

Now imagine something similar in power armor...

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I don't mind the liberty taken at all Grey!

 

The reason I had the colours was to tie it in to the themes. The Red pads were to link them to the Blood Angels seeing as they are a successor, and the orange cloth was kind of me thinking of their Shaolin inspiration, though really it was a first draft and subject to changes as usual. Maybe we can consolidate both efforts?

 

I like your interpretation of a darker look to the chapter, but I think without at least a splash of colour they are a little dark for Blood Angels successors. I might have yet another play around. I appreciate the effort and input though Grey.

 

Would the more important marines have robes/tabards in the same colour as the cloth your tactical marine has?

That might be a bit too monk-ish for your chapter, so feel free to discard this suggestion as you see fit.

 

The loincloth was there to give the marine more of a tie to his homeworld than anything else and the culture there. I see them as mostly browns with some oranges and greens as natural colours being used by the people. Robes don't really fit with these guys and as much as I think tabards are kinda cool, they don't really fit either. It's not so much that robes or such are in their nature, as the culture would fit them in quite well, it's that the way they are represented on Space Marine figures makes them look too much like christian monks or knights, and that isn't the image I'm going for.

 

Also, I'm all for the traditional melee weapons in place of chainswords. Great stuff.

 

Thanks. I envisioned them to go for more crippling/killing blows with heavier, more solid weapons than for swordplay.

 

This made me think about Batman's martial art.

Keysi

Now imagine something similar in power armor...

 

Keysi KFM is an incredibly brutal new martial art and would work well for this chapter. Obviously they wouldn't need it so much against the more fragile enemies, a simple strike of any description would kill a guardsman, small gribbly tyranid or most other normal sentient beings in a single blow. Though I do envision it becoming interesting vs Chaos Marines and the tougher Orks. It gives me lots of very cool imagery in my head. KFM was a good call.

[Codex Grey]

The reason I had the colours was to tie it in to the themes. The Red pads were to link them to the Blood Angels seeing as they are a successor, and the orange cloth was kind of me thinking of their Shaolin inspiration, though really it was a first draft and subject to changes as usual. Maybe we can consolidate both efforts?

I like your interpretation of a darker look to the chapter, but I think without at least a splash of colour they are a little dark for Blood Angels successors. I might have yet another play around. I appreciate the effort and input though Grey.

Fair enough, it's your Chapter after all. I'm eager to see this 'consolidation'.

The loincloth was there to give the marine more of a tie to his homeworld than anything else and the culture there. I see them as mostly browns with some oranges and greens as natural colours being used by the people. Robes don't really fit with these guys and as much as I think tabards are kinda cool, they don't really fit either. It's not so much that robes or such are in their nature, as the culture would fit them in quite well, it's that the way they are represented on Space Marine figures makes them look too much like christian monks or knights, and that isn't the image I'm going for.

I was bored and got some ideas ;)

Mortal Kombat-esque, more martial artsy robes and accessories. This could be a way to add some color as well. Ignore the quality of the drawing, twas a quick sketch :P

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Mortal Kombat-esque, more martial artsy robes and accessories. This could be a way to add some color as well. Ignore the quality of the drawing, twas a quick sketch :P

 

The quality is fantastic Grey, if this is low quality I wonder how good it would look if you put your full range into it. :(

 

The headband is a little strange, but I like it. I love the 'less is more' robes you have which fit the character completely. I like it a lot.

 

Considering the Mortal Kombat reference, I just got an image in my mind of a few of these marines standing on a windswept ledge, watching some greenskin speed-freaks roaring on the plains below. Very cool.

 

With info on the chapter:

 

I'm still at a loss to what their symbol could be, I used the Imperial Fists fist as a 'stand in' for all intents and purposes, given their brawler nature, but I can't think of a better image that ties in with their name. Something will come to me eventually no doubt but suggestions are welcome.

 

As for founding I was thinking like 8th or 10th, something round that mark.

 

As for homeworlds position, somewhere near an Ork Empire would be great. That's who I see as their main nemesis in their home region. It's a good juxtaposition, the justice/meditative/dedicated/servant marines against the emotional, brutal and savage orks.

[Ace Debonair]

Would the more important marines have robes/tabards in the same colour as the cloth your tactical marine has?

That might be a bit too monk-ish for your chapter, so feel free to discard this suggestion as you see fit.

 

It's not so much that robes or such are in their nature, as the culture would fit them in quite well, it's that the way they are represented on Space Marine figures makes them look too much like christian monks or knights, and that isn't the image I'm going for.

 

Fair enough. It was just a sort of random idea that came to mind. :D

For the chapter's symbol, the best I can come up with is either a stylized closed fist with the traditional blood-angel teardrop on it, or an open hand (fingers extended, but pressed together) with the same symbol on the palm.

Don't ask me to draw it though - my artistic skills roughly equate to those of a drunken toddler.

Doubtless you'll come up with something better, anyway, but what the heck. :o

 

I look forward to seeing this all come together - it's sounding cooler by the minute.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Don't ask me to draw it though - my artistic skills roughly equate to those of a drunken toddler.

Your not the only one! I too ascribe to the pencil and paper talent of a suitably inebriated child. :)

This post is going to be pic-heavy.

My first try only succeeded in making an even darker scheme than Greys.

The second try was pretty much not the way I really want to go, I just want to incorporate the traditional BA namesake red somewhere as a paternal link.

Then I went back to the first effort and tried to incorporate the things I had mentioned earlier, like the red and homeworld colour splashes. I think the red looks alright but It's hard to get it right since I don't have the same level of control over the painter as I do my imagination. I think the red on the pads should be more BA stylized, while the loincloth is just representative of Greys effort for MK style robes as seen above.

If I was talented with Photoshop things would be different I think. ;) As it stands, imagination will have to be sufficient to fill in the blanks.

For the chapter's symbol, the best I can come up with is either a stylized closed fist with the traditional blood-angel teardrop on it, or an open hand (fingers extended, but pressed together) with the same symbol on the palm.

I like both ideas, but the latter appeals to me the most. It is more representative of how the chapter is now than how it initially started, it's also very, very similar to the symbol of Helm, the Dungeons and Dragons Forgotten Realms god of neutrality. Known as the Watcher and the Guardian. Fits very well actually. Very cool indeed. Good Idea Ace. :)

[Codex Grey]

The quality is fantastic Grey, if this is low quality I wonder how good it would look if you put your full range into it

Fantastic is pushing it, but I'm glad you liked it. Maybe if I'm properly motivated one day, I'll try to draw something better of the Bloodsworn.

 

For the symbol, I was thinking the same as Ace, so it get's my vote.

 

For some reason I can't explain, I see the Bloodsworn as a slightly younger Chapter. But around 10th founding is what I've always seen as when BA gene-seed was used less and less, due to all the genetic instability, so it's sounds about right to me.

 

Orks are everywhere, so I think you should just pick a place that is usually not chosen, like Pasificus.

 

I quite like the third scheme you posted, as it incorporates all the elements you wanted, but also has that dark look I like. Nice!

 

It could be worthwile asking board members for help regarding both symbol and scheme. freej (creator of Shadow Warriors) helped me with the WE symbol scheme, and I know he is good at manipulating SM Painter pics. Haven't seen him around in a while though.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

It could be worthwile asking board members for help regarding both symbol and scheme. freej (creator of Shadow Warriors) helped me with the WE symbol scheme, and I know he is good at manipulating SM Painter pics. Haven't seen him around in a while though.

 

freej was working on a piece for my Blazing Sons DIY after he did a chapter symbol for me, which was fantastic. That was however, before he dropped off the face of the earth. I've looked but I can't find him. :tu:

 

In any case I'll have to find someone at some point as the marine painter has a hard time living up to the imagination sometimes.

 

Orks are everywhere, so I think you should just pick a place that is usually not chosen, like Pasificus.

 

Pacificus sounds good, and like you said Orks are everywhere so it's as good a place as any. Plus I like the 'Pacificus' in relation to a chapter that so struggles with retaining it's centered, neutral form.

 

It's interesting when I think about it, and your Mortal Kombat reference really sparked my imagination. When I see them I sort of imagine a Skorpion (and ninja-friends) mask and the angry look, but more of a feeling of the effort it takes to keep the rage in check in the eyes, rather than just say, burning hatred.

 

For the symbol, I was thinking the same as Ace, so it get's my vote.

 

Glad you agree, it was a fine idea there by Ace.

 

Maybe if I'm properly motivated one day, I'll try to draw something better of the Bloodsworn.

 

What more motivation do you need than working for- err... working with the illustrious Grey Hunter Ydalir? :cuss

 

I kid obviously, but I do appreciate the effort you've put in already with just the quick sketch. It provided the spark of enthusiasm that inspiration gives and that's all you can ask for really!

 

I quite like the third scheme you posted, as it incorporates all the elements you wanted, but also has that dark look I like. Nice!

 

That's what I was thinking when I made it. It's the best of the bunch in my eyes and I think that will be the one that stays on for the ride.

 

For some reason I can't explain, I see the Bloodsworn as a slightly younger Chapter. But around 10th founding is what I've always seen as when BA gene-seed was used less and less, due to all the genetic instability, so it's sounds about right to me.

 

I personally don't think 'young' but I certainly don't think 'old' either. I agree with you in the geneseed being used less and less as time wears on, and I like the middle aspect of the tenth founding right through to the fourteenth. I just don't like the 'new' chapter feel of anything nearing the 26th founding, and I don't see these guys as being so new as to have just stumbled upon the use of meditation and entrenchment of it in the chapter cult.

 

Simply put, I agree with you. I suppose I could have saved on the word-count there.

[Donkey Kong]

I know it's to the point of beating a dead horse. But I love :( the brawler idea. Though I can't help but imagine a marine tying a chain around his arm and punching out the filth with that.

 

I know this is very poor criticism, but how exactly is brown and black like the Pre Heresy Luna Wolves :D ?

 

I think your marines would have more Chaplains based on the meditation aspect alone. If the marines already think they're subhuman or abhuman, how do they feel about psykers? There'd also be a sense or irony with how the marines feel inferior if the populace produces beautiful children/ marines.

 

I'll try and read more soon, hope it helps.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I know it's to the point of beating a dead horse. But I love wub.gif the brawler idea. Though I can't help but imagine a marine tying a chain around his arm and punching out the filth with that.

 

Beating a dead horse with a chain wrapped around your arm? Sounds very Astartes-crossed-with-Rocky-ish. :P

 

Thank you, I had just had it up to here with the knightly and honourable chapters and really wanted to create something that felt markedly different. I really like the idea of brawlers as Astartes simply because if you think about a Tactical Squad, they might not all have combat knives or be able to get to them in time in a swirling melee. Also, not like they actually do anything except provide an aesthetic touch on the models either.

 

My first thought was just how cool it would be to see a marine beating his way through a unit of Orks or traitor guardsmen using just his fists, elbows and anything else to hand. Seems more like KFM that Grey mentioned all the time actually.

 

I know this is very poor criticism, but how exactly is brown and black like the Pre Heresy Luna Wolves :P ?

 

I just knew there was more in the first post that I had to edit, good thing you caught that. :P

 

Yes the scheme changed after some discussion with Grey, as you can see above. As good as the Luna Wolves scheme is, it's gone out the window in favour of a more in-character one.

 

I think your marines would have more Chaplains based on the meditation aspect alone. If the marines already think they're subhuman or abhuman, how do they feel about psykers? There'd also be a sense or irony with how the marines feel inferior if the populace produces beautiful children/ marines.

 

The Blood Angels and their descendants have always been considered rather 'refined', even if the population of their homeworld are like something from the Fallout series of games. Which kind of makes them a blood-red Brotherhood of Steel, in 40k, somewhat. /tangent.

 

Anyway, the extra chaplains is a good addition and something I should have had in there already, well spotted KHK, thanks for the suggestion.

 

About psykers? Well, I would guess that if they consider themselves subhuman, a psyker would be a simple step down further into the dirt and therefore not much of an issue.

 

The other way they could go is -considering the Emperor was the greatest human psyker that ever lived- they view them as a step back towards the light. Perhaps they put them on a pedestal as being closer to the Emperor than they ever will be. It's an interesting point and something I'll have to think about. Good one again KHK.

[Codex Grey]

It's interesting when I think about it, and your Mortal Kombat reference really sparked my imagination. When I see them I sort of imagine a Skorpion (and ninja-friends) mask and the angry look, but more of a feeling of the effort it takes to keep the rage in check in the eyes, rather than just say, burning hatred.

How bout changing all 'Hard C's in your marines' names into 'K's ? :D

 

Some good thoughts here. Maybe this translates into their combat doctrine. I had some ideas of 'combat meditation', kinda instead of getting all worked up and angry when fighting, they focus on the beauty of battle, the art of war if you will. Through the perfection of one's personal martial ability, they achieve inner peace. The Blood Angels themselves were known for the finer arts, so this could be their art?

 

Or something. Just a random thought. Probably doesn't make sence.

 

Plus I like the 'Pacificus' in relation to a chapter that so struggles with retaining it's centered, neutral form.

Aahh, yeah thats right... I mean, I knew that, that's why I suggested it :rolleyes:

 

As good as the Luna Wolves scheme is, it's gone out the window in favour of a more in-character one.

And IMO, while the Lunar Wolves scheme is cool, the bright white shiny armor reeks of the Honorable and Knightly, which you have had it up to there to. Just look at my Heralds. They're so Knightly and Honorable you could puke.

 

What more motivation do you need than working for- err... working with the illustrious Grey Hunter Ydalir?

 

I kid obviously, but I do appreciate the effort you've put in already with just the quick sketch. It provided the spark of enthusiasm that inspiration gives and that's all you can ask for really!

Heh, well I guess you're right :) I realize I've been quite active in this thread. It's been fun developing my two Chapters over the few years, but I've long wanted to work with something new and these guys just sparked my inspiration.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Just look at my Heralds. They're so Knightly and Honorable you could puke.

 

My friend you just cracked me up. :rolleyes:

 

The Blood Angels themselves were known for the finer arts, so this could be their art?

 

That's a great idea and something that fits really well with these guys. Very cool and very apt.

 

 

It's been fun developing my two Chapters over the few years, but I've long wanted to work with something new and these guys just sparked my inspiration.

 

I'm glad I could provide that spark with this idea! It is satisfying to know that other people other than yourself are getting a kick out of discussing your chapter.

[Ace Debonair]

For the symbol, I was thinking the same as Ace, so it get's my vote.

 

Glad you agree, it was a fine idea there by Ace.

 

I'm allowed one or two. :P

 

That last colour scheme rules, by the way.

Kind of "gritty-marines-you-dont-want-to-cross" and "harmonizing-with-the-inner-self" all at the same time.

 

The chain around the fist idea is pretty amusing, too.

Nothing like improvised brass knuckles for that really brutal martial artist look. :)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The chain around the fist idea is pretty amusing, too.

Nothing like improvised brass knuckles for that really brutal martial artist look. :cuss

 

Well if you wrap the chains around properly then the marines would resemble Cambodian fighters that practice an older style of Pradal Serey (I think I got that name right). Before boxing gloves were introduced by the french the fighters there wrapped rope around their hands and forearms for the same reason.

 

This also ties into the marines feel and style itself, so it works all-round.

 

As an aside I think I'm going to update this thread soon with some more conventionally compiled ideas and remove the rough draft at the top.