Rider's True Scale Dabblings.

[Rider-75]

Well, having looked at the various true/actual/art scale tutorial, models and so on, I have finally succumbed to the urge to do a 5-man squad of these brutes.

 

Now, I've tackled a range of marine chapters in my time, but the only one i've ever managed to field in their painted splendour are my current Black Templars.

 

So i dutifully set out all the bits to start having a look at "what goes where" and do a little planning.

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/DSCF5420.jpg

 

And that's where i hit my first quandary. I began to think. Which for me is usually a baaaaaaad idea.

 

I came up with two questions/dilemas:

 

1) Would these not look out of place in my current army? even if i do them as say sword brethren where the more imposing models might seem more acceptable...

 

if the answer to Q1 is yes, then i come to:

 

2) What do i do with them then? Do i pick another chapter? or just accept that they will simply be display models?

 

this then lead to the inevitable path of:

 

if i choose a new scheme, what Era do i go for. M30 or M40?

 

I'm open to ideas, as i started this at 11pm and it's now 2am.... lol!!

[Debauchery101]

make them into a command squad since normally you never use models from your hq squad with any other unit, they just be bigger and badder than the rest of your army which is why they are in the hq squad with the Captain

 

a champion, apothecary and banner bearer in true scale would be pretty cool man. of course this would mean that your current commanders and hq units might need to be remade but that would rock too!

 

if your going to do it based of termis and are worried about having enough bodies or spending too much id suggest ebay or some bits site and grab up some aobr termies for a cheap way to get legs and arms

[Rider-75]

ebay's been kind so far :)

 

termies about 1/2 price, 6 pairs of TH/SS arms for £6, the tac squad, BT bits and Comm sqd were all a fair few ££ cheaper too.

 

and i already have a bucket of spare SM bits that aren't in the pic.

 

one reason for sticking with BTs would be to use the scibor pads you can see - that and the fact i've ordered their new "Knight" model. will be interesting to see how he scales to regular SMs and termies.

[CaptainForge]

I'm really big on the pre heresy armies and I think true scale just goes well with that. So I would recommend a pre heresy army of your choosing. But then that would mean you would have to start another army and it wouldnt go with your Black Templars.

[Rider-75]

I'm really big on the pre heresy armies and I think true scale just goes well with that. So I would recommend a pre heresy army of your choosing. But then that would mean you would have to start another army and it wouldnt go with your Black Templars.

 

yup. if i go M30 i have to start again.

 

unless i go with shortly post-heresy and go for Sigismund as he heads out with his new Black Templars to bring angry fury to the heretics fleeing from the aftermath.

[Innus Bade 9]

I would go 30k Imperial Fists Command Squad Led by Sigismund. That way you can use the current bits you have and add afew Forgeworld IF pads to the mix. If you are going True Scale you have to go all out. You have half the battle done already, you have most of the models (if not all) that you need.

[lionofjudah]

all out is true...i have 25 TS grey hunters using termi legs, 9 blood claws and 12 long fangs using chaos warrior legs, 2 baneblade land raiders, 2 forgeworld repressors as rhinos, a leman russ with the banesword bit from a shadowsword I painted for a friend as a vindy, the filipino wolves for twolves and have 6 FW SW termi's up n running...a true scale army is 1 that should stand alone and your ability to bask in the fact that for once your marines truoly do tower over your opponents as they should...

I alos recommend looking in to some resin bases...I picked up enough of the celtic ruins from back to basix in australia to do my whole army...and a few extra for the future:)

[Debauchery101]

one question though, is it in violation of modeling rules in RT and Gt tournements for using larger bases than normally allowed for regular troop infantry that count as one model in vehicles?

 

that would be my only worry since i mainly make models for armies i play with

[pueriexdeus]

one question though, is it in violation of modeling rules in RT and Gt tournements for using larger bases than normally allowed for regular troop infantry that count as one model in vehicles?

 

that would be my only worry since i mainly make models for armies i play with

The base size of Troops was debated a couple of versions ago. When GW decided to put 40mm bases with the latest version of terminators, there was the gnawing of teeth, tearing of clothes etc... Every one thought that older models needed to be up graded to the 40mm base (as opposed to the 25mm base they came with)

GW was nice enough to FAQ that "models can/will be played on the base they came with. And they can be up-graded to the larger base 40mm." Unfortunately it has been so long ago that I cant locate the relevant FAQ that mentions it. And I am sure/hoping that someone on the B&C will find it and bring it up.

 

The things to keep in mind with base size, (besides the coolness factor) is that they all, regardless of size act identical for shooting and moving, measure from the base.

The only time IMO that they are different is in CC. The smaller base 25mm vs 40mm makes a difference as to how many figures are in B2B contact. Its a double edged sword. What side do you want to be on?

 

As to your question on troop base size and vehicles, it's irrelevant. The vehicle can hold X troops, base size has nothing to do with transportation capabilities.

 

With that said I am working on a MoTF/Techdread on tracks, I want to deploy him in a DP, so I am working him on a 60mm base ( the same as a Dread) so he will fit into a DP.

[Rider-75]

well. i've gone with BT. lack of imagination i guess. but i AM going to do them as the first batch of the new chapter at the beginning of the 2nd founding.

 

thus, one of my aims will be to create my marshal as none other than Sigismund himself.

 

but to get going i thought i'd start with "basic" marine - or not to do things by half... THREE marines.

 

so here's a few pics:

 

comparison of the first "mk7-esque" legs ready for sculpting alongside regular mk7 legs:

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/legs1.jpg

 

the first 3 pairs of legs with the greaves done:

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/legs2.jpg

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/legs3.jpg

 

notice (maybe, note sure how clear it is) that i have tried to sculpt in the divide on the back of the greaves and the vent, a la the actual mk7 legs. i've also elected to keep the faulds, as i think the marines would appreciate the hip protection <_<

 

i'll be tidying these up with some very fine sandpaper and a scalpel tomorrow once the GS has set. then next up will be the cuisses.

 

well, it's a start anyway.....

[Hashshashin]

Great Job!

 

Make them look BIG! <_<

 

I <3 True-Scale, Doghouse pattern FTW.

 

When I make TS I use all Termie parts also, I think its comes out really nice

Good Luck

[Rider-75]

thanks. as my GS skill isn't quite up to standard, i'll be using Lamenter's style with the normal (but bulked up) chests.

 

doghouse's method with the full sculpt over the termy chest is currently probably beyond me. start simple, then go for the next step.

[Rider-75]

update. legs have been all GS'd up. left thighs and butt plates are still curing, so final touch ups to them will be done after that.

 

i've tried to follow some of the patterns from the "normal" legs to add a little detail, thus the addition of the extra plate on the bum!

 

Fronts:

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/gslegs1.jpg

 

Backs:

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/gslegs2.jpg

 

i'm not happy with a few of things though.

 

1) I'm slowly getting to grips with GS, so there are a lots of little imperfections in the legs that i'll either try to work out, or cover with some details once the basic marine if complete.

2) The thickness of the sole. Think the spacer i used was too big, so his boot soles are.....chunky..... i'll either slice him free and file it down, or build the base level up around his feet to hide some of them.

3) The base size. 40mm is just too big i feel for a PA marine, even a big 'un ;) but 25mm bases are looking was too small. My thought would be to try and get some 30mm bases, maybe even go for some of the pre-detailed reason bases. Anyone recommend any?

 

So far i have these three legs, plus two yet to start. And thanks to the joy of ebay, picked up another box of termies (shooty unfortunately) and 10 legs for much cheapness. what i am going to be raking around for now though are LOTS of storm shield arms......

 

next is going to be tacking the torsos. what i'm not looking forward to is trying to rebuild the abdomen..... i'm hoping that any untidiness in my GS work will be hidden by bolters etc...

 

the aim will be to start with these 20 as 2 tactical squads and go from there.

[Shepard]

Those are coming along nicely. I like how you have gone to the effort of the little details in the greenstuff.

How did you do the raised boots?

[Lestat]

Looking good so far. I'm liking the detail you have added to the legs. The only thing I would change would be to clip off the thigh plates to make the legs look more like PA rather then terminator legs.

Heres a link to a tutorial which Lamenter has written on his website. He uses a 1mm spacer under the soles with GS. http://masteroftheforge.com/tutorials/

[tehreverend]

Looking good so far. I'm liking the detail you have added to the legs. The only thing I would change would be to clip off the thigh plates to make the legs look more like PA rather then terminator legs.

Heres a link to a tutorial which Lamenter has written on his website. He uses a 1mm spacer under the soles with GS. http://masteroftheforge.com/tutorials/

 

 

i've also elected to keep the faulds, as i think the marines would appreciate the hip protection ;)

[sar mikael]

very nice gs work, i recently did some true scale dudes but i only filled in the termi legs, i didnt bother with the PA detailing but this makes me wish i had. really good work so far, i shall be watching. dragon forge may be a good place to look for resin bases, not sure if they do 30mm but should do , i think, if not theres scibor miniatures they do a few. worth a check anyhow.

[Lestat]

Looking good so far. I'm liking the detail you have added to the legs. The only thing I would change would be to clip off the thigh plates to make the legs look more like PA rather then terminator legs.

Heres a link to a tutorial which Lamenter has written on his website. He uses a 1mm spacer under the soles with GS. http://masteroftheforge.com/tutorials/

 

 

i've also elected to keep the faulds, as i think the marines would appreciate the hip protection :)

 

I think you missed my point entirely. I said The only thing I would change would be to clip off the thigh plates to make the legs look more like PA rather then terminator legs. In other words, that is something I would do differently - all down to personal preference.

The other thing I would do differently is to actually write a comment rather than just quote from other posts ;)

[Rider-75]

thanks for the comments folks.

 

@ lestat: it's lamenter's work that i am using as the basis for the work. i have deliberately opted, rightly or wrongly, to keep the faulds (hip plates) to add to their size and bulk. if it doesn't look right with this combat squad, i'll ditch it for the next.

 

@ shepard: it's a piece of thin (or in this case i feel not quite thin enough....) plastic under the sole, slightly smaller than the actual size of the sole. GS is then packed under it and around it and then shaped to make a rim at the back half, and flush at the toes.

 

@ sar mikael: i've seen scibor's bases and i'll have a look for the dragon forge ones. thanks.

 

please keep the comments and crits coming!

[Lestat]

thanks for the comments folks.

 

@ lestat: it's lamenter's work that i am using as the basis for the work. i have deliberately opted, rightly or wrongly, to keep the faulds (hip plates) to add to their size and bulk. if it doesn't look right with this combat squad, i'll ditch it for the next.

 

please keep the comments and crits coming!

 

I've experimented with Lamenters method before - mainly on rank and file troops. You could be on to something with keeping the faulds - it would help the command squad stand out from the other Marines.

[Rider-75]

Presenting Captain Aguilon Argoroth. Commander of the 2nd Company of 4th Chapter, 13th Legion. Yup...he's an Ultramarine. Maybe! I might change my mind.... He might be demoted to squad sergeant too..... lol!!

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain3.jpg

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain5.jpg

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain4.jpg

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain1.jpg

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain7.jpg

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain6.jpg

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain2.jpg

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain8.jpg

 

And a scale comparison:

 

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/scalecomparison.jpg

 

He still has some tidying up to do, but thought i'd better at least roughly finish one as a guide for doing the others.

 

I think i may also have a look at trying a simplified version of Doghouse's method with the termy chest to see how that goes.

[tiny sam]

if he is an pre-heresy Ultramarines, why is he wearing a custom Mk8 armor and and a shoulder plate saying imperator deus?:rolleyes:

 

otherwise, YOU ROCK!;)

[Rider-75]

if he is an pre-heresy Ultramarines, why is he wearing a custom Mk8 armor and and a shoulder plate saying imperator deus?<_<

 

otherwise, YOU ROCK!:)

 

lol. i noticed that myself when i saw the blown up pics....

my glasses have gone awol and i'm struggling with small details - thus i can see some extra cleaning up that needs done now too.

 

i'll fill in the shoulder script with GS and try adding some filigree effect instead. always one for a challenge!

 

they are mk6 legs (proper mk8 has ball joint on the ankles and seperate knee pads) with a stylised/artificer breast plate as befits his rank. the rest of the marines will have more recognizable earlier style breast plates mostly of the mk4/5/6 styles. i think studding for the mk5 should be easy enough. but i'm not keen on trying the banding and knee jointing on the mk3 and mk4.....yet!

 

as for armour history - all marks up to and including 7 were in production during the heresy. mk 4 was the standard, with mk5 being a stop-gap while development and production of mk6 was completed. mk7 began production on earth after the loss of mars, so i guess would only have been initially available to those legions defending terra directly.

 

my next thoughts are bases. as PA marines they should be on 25mm bases - but they are i think too small. also the 40mm bases look to big.

compare:

 

40mm:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain9.jpg

 

25mm:

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l8/rider_in_black/GW/captain3.jpg

 

now, i have seen them based on 25mm, 30mm, and 40mm. what are people's thoughts on base size? i know the should be on 25mm, but will anyone argue over 30mm? i know that it could be considered modelling for an advantage by some pedantic rules lawyering types as a bigger base can mean more models in combat - but does it?

 

do you actually manage to fit any more models around a 30mm base than you do around a 25mm?

 

and also would anyone argue over the bases with the rounded lip, rather than the straight chamfer?

 

any answers to these queries gratefully accepted!!

please keep the C&C coming folks - keep me on the right lines!!

[tiny sam]

they are mk6 legs (proper mk8 has ball joint on the ankles and seperate knee pads) with a stylised/artificer breast plate as befits his rank.

 

I was indeed talking of the torso, but presented like that ;)

 

30 mm base ??? where is it from? it would be ideal i think (if it's legal...)

 

maybe 25mm for his squad mate and 40mm for the man itself. bringing the spot light on the cool mini is always a good idea.

[Epistolary_Kalphanian]

The Sergeant is about 90% perfect as far as true-scaling goes.

 

If you could smooth out the leg greaves a little more then he'd be fantastic.

 

Not bad though, I'd certainly love to do some true-scaling myself one day.

 

Keep up the good work,