BA - Anti AV13/14 choices

[syypher]

Hello fellow BC BA players! There's been a problem I've been having whenever I create Mech lists...anti AV13/14. These high armor values always give me problems because I lack some punch in my firepower. I can easily drown hordes in all the Autocannon/Assault Cannon/Heavy Bolter fire but bring in 2-3 Monoliths or 2-3 Land Raiders...I start to flail.

 

Anyways, this here is just a compilation of thoughts on weapons as listed on the Summary section pg96 of our Codex. I'm putting this hear just to get my thoughts out and that hopefully someone will find this helpful.

 

 

One question though, which anti av13/14 choice do you prefer in a mech/razorspam/av13 spam style army?

 

 

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Anti-AV 13 and 14? Which choices should even be considered? We all know and probably have read the math about Assault Cannons with Rending vs Lascannons. I'm not going to factor that rending in with my analysis. I know it is a weapon we can get and almost spam all over all of a Mech builds tanks, but that is not the point here. I want to try to analyze and hopefully get some input from you Generals as well on how which wargear is your "weapon of choice" vs high AV vehicles, specifically 13/14, that does not require rending.

 

With that said here is a Assault Cannon, TL Assault Cannon and Lascannon graph done by Labmouse on Dakka just in case you've never heard or read about why Assault Cannons shine over Las Cannons in anti-av matters past AV12.

 

http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/1/14/76241_md-AC-vs-LC.jpg

 

*I will be listing only weapons that are Str8+ or have Melta effects.*

*Almost all calculations will be including a 5+ cover save due to the BA Librarians Shield of Sanguinis. IMO a BA Libby should be included in every mech list and thus most lists will have coverage all over the place with up to two Librarians in the higher point range games*

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Bloodstrike Missles

Str 8, fires once, AP 1, 72" range.

Stormraven

 

This is amazing. This is a great anti av 13 vehicle. The Bloodstrike Missle are a One Shot fire only but it does not say anything about how many you can fire a turn. So as a Fast Skimmer being the only vehicle that can house this weapon it can effectively move 6" and fire 4x Bloodstrike Missles at once! That is one dead AV13 vehicle. This also has a fair chance at hurting AV 14 since there are 4 missles but it is much better used at AV 13 imo. vs AV14 you need to score a 6 just to glance then score 4+ to destroy/explode a vehicle. Fair chance but not as assured as a AV13 vehicle with chances to glance and at least pen.

 

One thing I don't like about the Bloodstrike Missles is the vehicle carrying it. It's an assault vehicle transport that will be wanting to get in someones face asap. It is not very survivable. One str 8 weapon has the following chances against the Stormraven with Extra Armor and a 5+ cover save (Shield of Sanguinis Librarian):

 

Chance of atleast 1

Shak : 14.815%

Stun : 0%

Weap : 3.704%

Immo : 3.704%

Wrec : 2.469%

Expl : 2.469%

 

A more realistic view of Str8 weapons vs a Stormraven would be a Devastator Squad shooting at it with 4x Str8 weapons.

 

Chance of atleast 1

Shak : 47.343%

Stun : 0%

Weap : 14.012%

Immo : 14.012%

Wrec : 9.517%

Expl : 9.517%

 

Adding together the Wrecked and Explode results net's you about a 20% chance to stop a Storm Raven from getting to you. Most people who run Devastators do not just run 1 but 2 squads. This is what turns me off from running a single Stormraven. However in doubles they will have increased effectiveness of getting their shots off. However, once again these bad boys want to get in your opponents face with a 24" move ASAP so they aren't going to be firing all 4x BS Missles. Probably 1 or even better their TL-MM. So with the only vehicle able to house a Bloodstrike Missle being a vehicle that cannot properly serve as a gun platform I don't think Bloodstrike Missles are an effective choice to use as Anti-AV 13/14.

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Cyclone Missle Launcher

Str 8, AP 3, 48" range, Heavy 2.

Terminator Squad

 

I don't think I'm going to even go into detail about this one. In order to get it on a 2+ 5++ model you will need to pay 230 points. For two shots...You could get 5 more terminators so you can equip another CML, but that will be 460 points total...Yes I'm sure they will take a lot of shooting and your other Terminators without the CML can be removed as ablative wounds but do you really want to pay 230 for two shots? When I read this in our book my eyes widened with hope and thought hey, what the heck this might be good. Then I saw the price and read that only 1 Terminator could take the ML per 5. Ouch. Pass this one up as viable anti av13/14...

 

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Demolisher Cannon

Str 10, AP 2, 24" range, Ordnance 1

Vindicator

 

This weapon is well-known, very deadly, and will attempt to be stopped at all costs. This choice is also a very fun choice. Spamming AV13 is BA's specialty and this monster fits right in. It can easily take care AV13 and even has a really nice chance at AV14. Not to mention any Infantry including Terminators and Nob Bikers fear this.

 

Here are the statistics vs a AV14 vehicle:

Chance of atleast 1

Shak : 13.889%

Stun : 8.333%

Weap : 8.333%

Immo : 8.333%

Wrec : 5.556%

Expl : 5.556%

 

and now with a 4+ cover save considering the enemy is trying to hide their vehicles.

 

Chance of atleast 1

Shak : 5.787%

Stun : 3.472%

Weap : 3.472%

Immo : 3.472%

Wrec : 2.315%

Expl : 2.315%

 

That is still fairly low. If your playing a competent player most of the time they will be providing cover saves to their vehicles in some shape or form. Combining the Wrecked and Explode results is about 5% to do something to a vehicle with AV14 and cover. Not as great as some of our other choices to come. I say the Vindicator belongs as an anti-infantry/elite infantry vehicle and clearly not a dedicated anti heavy AV hunter.

 

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Infernus Pistol/ Meltagun/ Multi-Melta

 

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Lascannon

 

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Missle Launcher

 

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Typhoon Missle Launcher

 

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I'll update this later and fill in the other slots when I get more time.

[the jeske]

am not a math person . But A you should nto be shoting at monoliths . you go after phase out when playing against necron. As LR or IG builds go , BA run MM attack bikes , drop units in either pods or landing close due to DoA . And if those games are 2-3 monliths and 2-3 LR then those armies are either very undermaned or your playing 2.5 k and then you should have to problems with runing anti tank meta .

 

wait . why are you runing hvy bolters in a BA army 0_o ?

[SamaNagol]

A score of 12 is impossible when firing Assault Cannon. You either pen AV 12 or you don't

 

Personally I take 2 TLAC Razorbacks, 3 MM Attack Bikes and 2 Vindicators at 1500pts. That will deal with absolutely anything it could possibly need to shoot at.

 

And as Jeske said, why would you want to shoot a Monolith?

[Sanct]

the cyclone missile launcher is heavy2 asaik

[BAJake]

My two cents: The Cyclone Missile Launchers fire 2 shots, not 1. Terminator Armor also grants relentless on marines which means they can move and fire their Heavy weapons (and assault too!) I always have a squad of Termies with a cyclone screening a 4 ML, dev squad. Thats about 360 points for 2 simple squads that can dish out six 48" S8 shooting attacks and Defend the line at the same time with 2+ saves and powerfists.

[4RC71C FOXX]

Cyclone Missle Launcher

Str 8, AP 3, 48" range.

Terminator Squad

 

I don't think I'm going to even go into detail about this one. In order to get it on a 2+ 5++ model you will need to pay 230 points. For one shot...You could get 5 more terminators so you can equip another CML, but that will be 460 points total...Yes I'm sure they will take a lot of shooting and your other Terminators without the CML can be removed as ablative wounds but do you really want to pay 230 for one shot? Oh, it's heavy also so you can't even move. When I read this in our book my eyes widened with hope and thought hey, what the heck this might be good. Then I saw the price and read that only 1 Terminator could take the ML. Ouch. Pass this one up as good anti av13/14.

 

 

The Cyclone is Heavy 2 in both firing modes, and any model wearing terminator armour has the Relentless USR

 

 

Edit: Beaten to it :-p

 

FOXX

[*Riken*]

Models in Terminator armor are also relentless so they can move and fire heavy weapons. How ever I agree 460 for 4 S8 shots is a serious waste of points. I have always been a fan of Assault cannons vs just about everything though i rarely ever play mech lists.

 

Edit ^ Fox beat me to it.

[syypher]

.thanks for correcting me every single person on B&C.

 

I'll make the changes when I get a little more time ;) Busy with Christmas stuff!

[Fortunate Son]

I run multimelta speeder squadrons. Those typically do well against high armor mech lists.

They only have problems under too much return fire, or when they run out of high armor targets.

Try a squadron and see what you think.