Sousetsu Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Make sure your bolters are primed ready, and aimed, because I have a feeling that I'm walking on a fine wire with this question. In the meantime, I'll be hiding behind my couch. So, I've been so codex indecisive of late that I decided to look into the Inquisition to see if I can get a definite. I always did like the Grey Knights. Three days ago, I pulled my head out of the sand long enough to check my email and find out that the Inq. is getting new beautiful models, and a new codex to boot, which has made me seriously consider going demon hunting. However, I wanted to see if I can create my own force, because it feels a lot more satisfactory, at least to me. Your own children, as flawed as they might be, are infinitely better than the kids next door, as my mother says. So, I've already written up an IA that has what I'd consider a valid reason to have had some experience working for the inq. and fighting demons, as well as a reason for them to have similar gear and abilities. I've stated it in no uncertain terms that my chapter is not, and cannot, match the awesomeness of the Grey Knights, but have enough similarities to use their codex and remain fluff compatible. My question is stands: Would you guys even consider it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I might somewhat moderately consider it if it was that they had fought a lot of daemons because of location. Not if it was because they worked for the Inquisition. As long as they don't work for the Inquisition, I'm somewhat ok. But make sure you have excellent reasons and very good writing. You have been warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Might be best to wait to see the rules. I mean, you can (possibly) imitate the aesthetic and rules effects without taking the Daemonhunting aspects and other aspects of the Chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 It it's Daemon Hunting you love, trying giving an IA in the form of a document about a particular GK force? Much in the way an Index Traitoris article is about a particular warband generally, rather than a whole army. If you see what I mean. Otherwise, I agree with Batman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 So, I've already written up an IA that has what I'd consider a valid reason to have had some experience working for the inq. and fighting demons, as well as a reason for them to have similar gear and abilities. To be honest, I would like to see ho do you explain Chapter full of psykers... I've stated it in no uncertain terms that my chapter is not, and cannot, match the awesomeness of the Grey Knights, but have enough similarities to use their codex and remain fluff compatible. This logical fallacy, though. If you have this chapter count-as Grey Knights, then they *are* for all means and purposes as awesome and bada$$ as Grey Knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sousetsu Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 So, I'll list out the main ideas here, that way I can edit my IA before putting the entire thing up. The psyker abilities come from the chapter being a cursed founding chapter. They go berserk during battle and their cumulative rage manifests physically as part of their curse. However, this leads to some of the chapter's members to turn to worshiping Khorne, and other nasties. Due to this, the monodominant parts of the Iquisition have kept a very tight leash on the chapter, running it to ground and denying it glory (which why you haven't heard about them yet). In response, the Imperial Knights now hate the monodominants and due all they can to support the radical inquisitors. Caught in the poker game between the forces of the Inquisition, the chapter has gained a lot of experience fighting all forms of chaos, and due to them being from either Vulkan or Ferrus Manus gene-stock, they have the skills to evolve their weapons to their needs. The reason why they armor is so decorated/covered in icons is due to the Chapter's homeworld, which is a fuedal world. Most of the time, the chapter will recruit an entire squad from the same country, and in pride, the squad carries the livery/decorations of its home nation in a show of respect to their past. I think that covers most things, from fluff to modeling, and of course it's much more elaborate in the IA, but if there are any other major concerns, list them now so I can fix them as soon as possible. As for rules and being inferior to Grey Knights, seeing as its a new codex, and hence probably an overpowered one, I now have a fluff excuse to handicap myself if I feel like a challenge every once in a while. I'm not the greatest of players, but I have a feeling that once I eventually get the hang of the Demon Hunters, I can enter into matches with more fluffy / for fun lists and still nab myself a few wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 the chapter will recruit an entire squad from the same country, So the culture uses armies of prepubesent boys to fight wars? Cause their the only ones that can become Space Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sousetsu Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 the chapter will recruit an entire squad from the same country, So the culture uses armies of prepubesent boys to fight wars? Cause their the only ones that can become Space Marines. I guess I should have been clearer. Lets say we have squad A. All of Sqaud A has been recruited from the same country, so they have the same basic military training. If squad A comes from a Country A, whose ideologies on war are very focused on close combat, then the country's best and brightest potentials will be recruited to serve as a close combat specialists. The Space Marines are worshiped as the sons and physical manifestations of the God-Emperor, and so they can get away with taking some of the toughest, brightest and strongest of each of the separate countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 All of Sqaud A has been recruited from the same country, so they have the same basic military training. Again I have to ask, what military training to 8 to 12 year old boys get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 In a martial society, quite a lot. Sort of like the any child who can't old an axe at age x is chucked in the water for the monsters to eat thing they have on Fenris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecritter Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 In a martial society, quite a lot. Sort of like the any child who can't old an axe at age x is chucked in the water for the monsters to eat thing they have on Fenris. Okay, I'll give you that but it'd be nice if Sousetsu could put that somewhere in the IA is all I'm getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Have you studied the Exorcists? They're daemonhunters that might fit your concept with a few tweaks, and they'd save you the hassle of having to come up with a background for some other Chapter. You'll find their rules in Imperial Armour Volume Ten: The Badab War - Part Two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothete Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 So, I've been so codex indecisive of late that I decided to look into the Inquisition to see if I can get a definite. I always did like the Grey Knights. Three days ago, I pulled my head out of the sand long enough to check my email and find out that the Inq. is getting new beautiful models, and a new codex to boot, which has made me seriously consider going demon hunting. However, I wanted to see if I can create my own force, because it feels a lot more satisfactory, at least to me. Your own children, as flawed as they might be, are infinitely better than the kids next door, as my mother says. The Simple Answer: Of course you can write an article about your counts-as Grey Knights. That is, assuming you're physically capable of doing so. A Much Longer Answer: I wouldn't personally recommend doing so, not least because you're going to be running into the issue of explaining an awful lot of things that are made convenient for the Boys from Titan. Just off the top of my head, you'll need a good excuse for the Chapter being completely comprised of psykers, of stature, talent, and training even more surprising than that of merely normal Astartes, the possession of rare and complex wargear that does things not even possible in most of the rest of the Imperium (I'm thinking psycannons, Aegis Armor, the proliferation of Nemesis weapons, etc), the fact that the Chapter is known to work closely not only with the Inquisition but also with conventional Imperial military and other Astartes as well, and, and, and... I'm sure someone else either already has or probably will bring up this point, and it's the reason that I dropped the idea of covering counts-as Grey Knights in a very early draft of my own work, but trying to justify in-game rules in your fluff is going to lead to headaches, indigestion, and looking like Octavulg. It's just bad news. Rather than roping yourself down and being beholden to explaining the differences between your Chapter and the Grey Knights - which will need to be substantial for the article to stand on its own - why not adopt a policy of deciding what it is you want to write about that will makes them interesting, then branch out from there? You've already done the hard part and come up with a concept, so now you need to undergo the far, far easier process of weeding out untenable ideas and building up the structure. Okay, that's a lie. Ideas are the easy part, it's really the construction that makes most people want to throw in the towel, especially once exposed to the myriad and curiously bowling-ball shaped holes that have been poked in their writing. You've got the underpinnings ready to go, though. Start with the idea that you want them to have expertise in confronting daemons, then figure out how they got it, how it informs the rest of their characters, and what it is about them that makes the Chapter different from the Grey Knights and the Exorcists, and how their experience might have altered them over the course of their existence. Would you guys even consider it? Of course we'll consider it. We've argued over countless themes, concepts, executions, and suggestions. What really matters at this point is whether you want our approval and help or if you want to be completely self-contained. The two aren't always compatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shiny One Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I have to admit that I am guilty of the same idea. I am too really fond of a teleporting only powerarmor army. I started with lots of crazy ideas how i can explain similar powers and finally I came to the conclusion that a warband of chaos marines could represent it the easiest way, be it mutated or blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 The psyker abilities come from the chapter being a cursed founding chapter. They go berserk during battle and their cumulative rage manifests physically as part of their curse. However, this leads to some of the chapter's members to turn to worshiping Khorne, and other nasties. Due to this, the monodominant parts of the Iquisition have kept a very tight leash on the chapter, running it to ground and denying it glory (which why you haven't heard about them yet). No, they would be declared Excommunicate Traitoris on the first occasion. Frenzy-psykers are bad news, frenzy-psykers falling to the Chaos are very bad news. Second, if the psyker goes berzerk, it will be possessed by daemon in no time. Psykers have to be calm and collected, otherwise are easy prey. the chapter has gained a lot of experience fighting all forms of chaos, So you have this Chapter full of frenzy-psykers and you are leaving them to fight chaos.... Hmmm, this is like sending bunch of pyromaniacs to extinguish a fire. :o The problem with creating the Chapter-count-as-Grey-Knights lies in the count-as for the most part. Writing your IA as justification for the Table-Top simply doesn't work and Ace summarized it pretty well, "It's the literary equivalent of having Space Wolves and Blood Angels wearing thick spectacles with fake moustaches attached, putting on dodgy accents." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 If you really want an army of deamon murderers They could have a patrol near one of the stable warp-rifts. They could have magic armour developed by their own Librarians and Tech-marines independently of the GK. It almost certainly won't be as good because they won't have the resources of the entire Inquisition to use in the research of it. They could justify their tendency to get distracted (Like the Dark Angels and the Fallen) when ever they see CHAOS because they recognise chaos as not only a threat to the Imperium and Humanity but to the very laws of physics themselves. they fight the unmaking of the universe. They could have slightly less xenophobia towards xenos who they have seen actively fighting Chaos because its hard to feel bad towards the Eldar Ranger who snipered that deamonette sneaking up on you whilst you were busy trying to mach blades with a really big Blood Thirster. I would drop them having psychic powers. really. its something like 1,000,000 - 10,000,000 are born with a psychic ability and even then it usually stays dormant or manifests its self too weak to be of use, like you are abnormally good at cards and not even you know why. And an appreciable fraction of the useful ones are insane. So we are looking at a chapter that recruits only 1 in 100,000,000,000. Taking the book Sons of Dorn as a typical fall out rate for Aspirents you have a chapter that can only recruit 1 in ~250,000,000,000,000. Gene-seed mutation can only take you so far. And if you do have a mutation in the gene-seed that manifests as psykerness then the High Lords and the =I= and the Sister of Silence and the Space Wolves are all going to nuke your chapter, your chapter fortress, homeworld, people who owe you money, people who you owe money to, the sub-division of the Mechanicus who made you armour, you neighbors, your dog and your neighbor's dog because no one wnats the Thousand Sons re-emerging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sousetsu Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 What you guys are saying is very much true, so I'll be returning to the drawing board for a little while. My problem is the fact that I like Space Marine fluff, but I'm not crazy on some of their models, and I like Chaos models, but not their fluff, which always left me a bit disgruntled. Finding common ground is where I'm stuck at. I like Grey Knight models a lot, but their "we're perfect" fluff isn't to my taste. I guess I'm too picky, huh.... Anyways, for now, I'll return to brainstorming. Mostly, I'm trying to find a fluffy reason for my chapter to have highly customized/ green stuffed models without it turning into a "my chapter is really vain and likes shiny objects" type deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacklight Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 If you're trying to shoot for a Grey Knight army purely because of their new models and codex, it'll be hard to justify them having psyker powers, as was already mentioned. You could use something like the Black Templar codex and have them fight daemons, using the Grey Knights models. Or you could go the route I'm trying. Since I don't have many people around my home that play 40k, I won't be playing games all that often. I'm just going to try and create myself a new codex, with rules and everything included. Instead of making rules from scrap I'll pull them from other codices, and then try and balance it enough so that people won't mind playing against them. So if you were to do that, take the Grey Knights codex, get rid of their psyker powers, get rid of the force weapons and replace them with, say, power weapons, and then fill in the gaps from there. There's still a lot of work to be done, obviously, but it's a start. I personally really enjoy the Grey Knight models as well and I'm considering getting a few packs of them to use in my chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 An easy way to have a different looking armory is for them to make it all themselves. they could have a following of a really obscure Mechanicus sect that sees it as their holy duty to help 'The War Effort'. The most efficient way to do this is to make sure that the marines always have an adequate supply of armour. If they make it to their own specifications then it will look different. Or they could be looting it of the choas boyz. After performing the proper purifying rituals, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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