SnorriSnorrison Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Well, thanks for reading so far, I appreciate it very much! I’d like to repeat that I am not the oldest veteran when it comes to DC, but I use them every game. Some things get stuck in your mind after a few battles, and that is what I share with our forum users. I don’t claim that these lines are the ultimate way of using DC in battle, but rather a collection of my knowledge gathered in many games. So, enjoy. Basically, the DC is a thick as a brick and spawns fear in the majority of our opponents’ hearts. Let this work for you. Without being in combat, this unit makes an impact on your opponent’s strategy and plans for this game. Capable of destroying almost everything due to the amount of attacks and re-rolls from a chaplain/Lemartes, the DC will become an essential part of your army once fully integrated. Do some games, learn how to use the DC to its best effect and have fun while doing that. One charge lead by DC can end the game in the very same turn. Never let your units fight without support, weaken the elite units with suppressing fire, take out the big guns with precise melta-shots. Let the massacre begin. "To achieve victory we must mass our forces at the hub of all power & movement. The enemy's ’centre of gravity’ " - Carl Philipp Gottfried von Clausewitz Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Might I add: Elite Chaplain: Whilst not as powerful as the Reclusiarch, you are striking at I4 which means his PW attacks cannot be allocated on the charge as the Reclusiarch's can striking at I5 with all of the other DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Another fantastic review from you Snorri! It is always a pleasure to read your analysis. There is only one thing I would add to Combinations section: the humble Chaplain. But all in all a very good shot from you Snorri! :) Cheers Sang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Well, thanks for the feedback, guys! :) I agree with you about the Elite Chaplain, however there's small problem. Every time I try to edit posts in which I used BBcode, every code tag is totally messed up. I don't want to be editing this all the time as it is rather time consuming to fix all those errors over and over again...so I'll gather the suggestions made by the community and include them afterwards. I hope you can understand this. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darligulv Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Very cool! I love the DC, and Lemartes, he was the reason I started playing BA. (And I say his name with a Spanish accent, every time.) Question/s: Advantages of Reserving a Land Raider over a Stormraven? I port my boys-in-black around in the SR, so far I've gotten lucky, but a few times it's crashed and burned before it could really pay for it's points. Are Land Raiders more of a 'sure thing'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I'd never thought about reserving the Land Raider and dropping it in.... Hmmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Awesome! thank you snorri will revisit the DC in a list, thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Very cool! I love the DC, and Lemartes, he was the reason I started playing BA. (And I say his name with a Spanish accent, every time.) Question/s: Advantages of Reserving a Land Raider over a Stormraven? I port my boys-in-black around in the SR, so far I've gotten lucky, but a few times it's crashed and burned before it could really pay for it's points. Are Land Raiders more of a 'sure thing'? Both the Stormraven and the Landraider are huge targets and priority no. 1 for your opponent. Biggest advantage for the SR is its speed, while the landraider offers more protection. Even if you choose the LR over the SR, your opponent will get through that armour anyways, so I'd stick with the SR, just because that speed and 24" move and Machine Spirit-MM after that, and of course 4++ coversave. Awesome! thank you snorri will revisit the DC in a list, thanks again. Thanks, dude! Glad you liked it. :P Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daboarder Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 DUDE YOU TOOK MY SIG!! AWESOME (can I get some kudo's for that) one thing of note: alot of people say JP DC are easy to kite I would like to suggest that this is NOT the case. In particaular is a DOA list your JP DC should be your mayhem unit, you drop em on a flank and let them hold it, or in the middle and let your enemy try deal with them, or near a death star and hammer it. basically if they come in from reserve odds are that you are with 12-7' of one of their units, as such anything wishing to kite your DC must be CLOSER than the unit you want them to munch, and even if your opponent manages to pull that off they have really only bought themselves an extra turn at most, if you combine this with the 30+ FC/FNP RAS with 2x MG's that are probably now on his doorstep and the Vanguard that is tieing up his fire support units then your opponent has ALOT to worry about before he tries to deal with the DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'm kind of a stuck record with DC, I really don't think they're worth taking from a competitive point of view. Assault Marines can get FNP/FC from Priests now, making DC kind of worthless as they're subject to Rage. As a comparison 10x ASM with Jump Packs, Meltagunsx2, Power Weapon Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack, Power Weapon =315pts 10xDeath Company with Power Fist, Power Weapon, Infernus Pistolsx2 =305pts in a Rhino =420pts with Jump Packs Assuming both get the charge (and DC have gone for 2xCCW rather than Bolter) ASM/Priest=6.11 dead MEQ or 14.44 GEQ DC=8.19 dead MEQ or 15.3 GEQ So DC aren't scoring, subject to rage, massively more expensive if jump packs are taken and only marginally more killy than Assault Marines. DC are probably not too bad if put in a list without Assault Marines or Priests - I'd imagine a Rhino full of DC would complement Rhino based Tacticals quite well. But for the majority of us fielding Assault Marines and Priests, I can't see that they're worth it. Love the DC kit though ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'll swap that 10 man unit of DC for a 6 man unit with a Chaplain and see the wounds go up by an enormous amount. DC are a unit that needs the charge. That's why you put them in transports to hopefully ensure that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'll swap that 10 man unit of DC for a 6 man unit with a Chaplain and see the wounds go up by an enormous amount. 6xDC, PF, PW, Chaplain kills about 13 MEQ on the charge, so yes it does go up massively. However, you're blowing through the unit in your turn leaving your seven models out on foot in your opponents turn. A savvy opponent would feed them a unit, then rage them around the board. The ASM would end up killing the same unit in their opponents turn leaving them free to move, shoot, assault etc DC are a unit that needs the charge. That's why you put them in transports to hopefully ensure that happens. Rhinos aren't very good for getting the charge, Raiders/Ravens are better of course but come at a large cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I'm only taking DC to send them to a point that needs breaking in my opponent's line. I don't expect them to survive. I just expect them to kill double their points before they all fall down. Literally point, click and laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanct Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 DC are a unit that needs the charge. That's why you put them in transports to hopefully ensure that happens. Rhinos aren't very good for getting the charge, Raiders/Ravens are better of course but come at a large cost. Why are you trying to get death company to do assault marine jobs? They're more akin to assault terminators - but use their bare hands. Put then in a raider/raven and pick a target Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 DUDE YOU TOOK MY SIG!! AWESOME (can I get some kudo's for that) one thing of note: alot of people say JP DC are easy to kite I would like to suggest that this is NOT the case. In particaular is a DOA list your JP DC should be your mayhem unit, you drop em on a flank and let them hold it, or in the middle and let your enemy try deal with them, or near a death star and hammer it. basically if they come in from reserve odds are that you are with 12-7' of one of their units, as such anything wishing to kite your DC must be CLOSER than the unit you want them to munch, and even if your opponent manages to pull that off they have really only bought themselves an extra turn at most, if you combine this with the 30+ FC/FNP RAS with 2x MG's that are probably now on his doorstep and the Vanguard that is tieing up his fire support units then your opponent has ALOT to worry about before he tries to deal with the DC. Haha, I knew I had seen it somewhere around these forums! :lol: Of course man, next time I edit my post I'll give the correct source. :D I agree with that. I only field JP DC, and in 90% of my games they have been utterly devastating at least, thanks to Lemmy and terrain that blocks either LoS or gives cover. I try make sure that anything capable of kiting them around gets wrecked on turn one. Having fast Multimeltas is very nice. :cuss It's only that the article was thought to help especially new gamers, as our veterans around this board field DC very often(well, mostly) and know how to handle them with JP. :D I'm only taking DC to send them to a point that needs breaking in my opponent's line. I don't expect them to survive. I just expect them to kill double their points before they all fall down. Literally point, click and laugh. I agree as well. The DC are the wreckingball in our armies. They take out what's needed to be taken out, and they look darn good while doing that! They die in the end, but that's cool. No need to keep the High Chaplain busy all the time, eh? Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Nice guide, thanks for that :lol: Is it worth adding an entry for Razorbacks and/or Land Raider variants in the transport section and do you plan on adding a bit about Death Company Dreadnoughts seeing as Death Company (in multiples of five) unlock them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Nice guide, thanks for that ;) Is it worth adding an entry for Razorbacks and/or Land Raider variants in the transport section and do you plan on adding a bit about Death Company Dreadnoughts seeing as Death Company (in multiples of five) unlock them? Well, in my opinion the Landraider variants add nothing but similar weaponry, but that's not the point. The point is to get your DC into the enemy's ranks, and the variants are equally good in doing that. The transport capacity changes, but that's something the gamer needs to decide for oneself. Would be more of a Land Raider Tactica. B) Razorbacks I see inferior to Rhinos. If you field DC on foot, you will want to take more than 5(plus Reclusiarch/Chaplain) and the RB's weapon options are not worth the loss of those bodies in my humble opinion. But for completeness' sake, I think I should add it. :) Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandrinus Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Great reading and great review SnorriSnorrison, what i think is dificult is to get a balanced and competitive straight DC list, 3 ravens Astorath Lemmy and Chaplain/Reclusiarc with 3x10 +THammer DC and 2 Scouts CmSnML is nearly 2000 points, but how competitive is this list? it seems very killy. But what other options are there for good DC heavy list but competitive? I have been playing with various DC themed List, but want to know if rhino heavy lists with dc is viable or a dc podlist like this: HQ Astorath@ 220 Libby Shield+Rage @100 ELITE Chaplain @100 FURIOSO DREAD FRag HFlamer EA Pod @185 FURIOSO DREAD FRag HFlamer EA Pod+LBeacon @195 TROOPS DC 9 + THamer + 1PW + 1IP+ POD@240 DC 9 + PFist + 1PW + 1IP+ POD + LBeacon@245 DC 10 + THamer + 2PW + IP @275 DC Dread @125 Scouts Cloack Snipers ML @100 HEAVY Storm Raven(MM/LC)+EA @215 @ 2000 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Great stuff. I always opt to use JP on my DC whenever possible. Last Apoc game I was in a fielded a 18-man jumper DC with Lemmy and a spare libby with Might of Heroes and Shield. Everyone on the other team had eyes the size of dinner plates when they dropped in. XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Great article Snorri! You know...you've just made me want to try an all black list, even though I don't usually field them much nowadays. I was thinking of : Astorath 2 Chaplains with PFists 4 JP DC with Lemartes and a TH 9 DC+TH+3PW+IP in Drop Pod 9 DC+TH+3PW+IP in Drop Pod DC Dread+Grapple in Drop Pod DC Dread+Grapple in Drop Pod It's 1750 on the spot! 28 DC 2 DC Dreads 4 Drop Pods Do you see this working? Is the body count too low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Yep Liked SnorriSnorrison's tactica and decided to compile this list but there is one variation read the end note. Anyone run DC with Dante using hit and run? I will give it a go with the DC and a DC dread the list reads like a riot at a rock concert. HQ Dante 225 Elites 1 Sanguinary Priest: jump pack & power sword IP 105 Troops 10x RAS: 2x meltagun, thunder hammer storm shield 260 10x RAS: 2x meltagun, thunderhammer 240 Sanguinary Guard: Chapter banner 2x IP & 1 power fist 260 5 Death company with jump packs 175 Lemartes 150 Thunderhammer x1, power weapons x4 90 Total Death company Dread blood talons 125 Heavy Support Stormraven TL lascannon TL MM EA 215 Total 1845 One Priest attaches to Dante with his Sanguinary Guard. The Death Company and Dread go flat out into combat. Point, click, laugh. OR There is one twist to the list, I may decide to drop one DC and attach Dante to the Death Company, for 2 reasons. Pin point DS no scatter (no need to drop the 5th DC) Or run from the SR using Hit and Run for the Death Company with Dantes rules, plus Dante's death mask? Means repeated DC shooting and charges each round of combat. With the dread at work on something else :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Great article Snorri!You know...you've just made me want to try an all black list, even though I don't usually field them much nowadays. I was thinking of : Astorath 2 Chaplains with PFists 4 JP DC with Lemartes and a TH 9 DC+TH+3PW+IP in Drop Pod 9 DC+TH+3PW+IP in Drop Pod DC Dread+Grapple in Drop Pod DC Dread+Grapple in Drop Pod It's 1750 on the spot! 28 DC 2 DC Dreads 4 Drop Pods Do you see this working? Is the body count too low? Well, thanks man! I don't play DC armies normally, but nontheless I'll try to answer your questions. 1. I can see it working. You'll need some bolters on them DC to make the impact as painful as possible for your opponent. The Dreads are good to tear vehicles towards them and by clever positioning you can even deny LoS while using the grapples. The Lemartes squad looks good, and thanks to all those Drop Pods the target priority from turn one is extremely difficult to settle up. Gotta be careful, though, as DP lists can easily be countered by holding units in reserve and charging from turn two, which would deny you the charge bonuses. And of course, the whole army rages. Thats not really a problem as you'll be in their face anyway, however it can lead to some certain difficulties, especially when playing clever opponents. Just saying, it's possible to fool those madmen around, but not likely when fielded as a DP army. However, the more 'competitive'(which I find an awful, awful word for a hobby) your environment gets, the more difficulties will become apparent, especially Anti-Tank weapons. If I counted correctly, you have 4 melta-weapons, and while you are able to drop them behind tanks with ease, they might be insufficient when fighting massed transports/battletanks as it is usual in those 'competitive' environments(god I hate that word!). 2. The body count is low, but this is migitated by the fact that you'll be able to deepstrike with your whole army, probably in cover, so I'd say, simply give it a try! Even when losing some Marines, those DC units with Chaplains(Lemartes) will tear some stuff apart bigtime! @ Drunken Angel: I'd stay with your first suggestion. Drop Dante and SG behind a tank(you can drop one IP, though) and let the DC get into combat after a 12" move in turn 3. If they arrive, that is. You have a good chance of Dante arriving on turn two, popping a tank, and in turn 3 the DC should be able to charge. That way, they are able to support each other very well by eliminating threats(battlecannons and such) and opening the paths to bloddbath(transports and such). Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Lets take list ideas/questions to the BA ARmy List subforum, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 This may be a foolish question, so please forgive me. Do the Death Company cause rending? I've heard twice in the last two days that the DC can rend, but I haven't tracked that rule down in the codex. I never thought they did do this, but it keeps coming up at a local shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 DC rended in the old codex, but no longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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