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Working with 3d Printed bolters


twopounder

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Hey everyone.

 

I've been working with 3d design for a short time, and started to make replacement bolters for my Dark Angels and I'm using shapeways to 3d print them. I just received my first round of bolters (one done in frosted ultra detail, and one in white detailed). First off, I wouldn't recommend white detailed. It's not fine enough for small detail, but FUD seems to be very good.

 

There is a normal bolter and an elongated combi-bolter:

 

Packaging:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/2012-02-23_18-52-47_630.jpg

 

Sprues:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/2012-02-23_18-54-06_699.jpg

 

Raw:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/2012-02-23_18-54-20_778.jpg

 

Inked for detail:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/STA73403.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/STA73395.jpg

 

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/STA73399.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/2012-02-24_00-03-17_341.jpg

 

3D originals:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/Combi-BolterPlasmaBasev2cleanprofile.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/BolterBase.png

 

Semi-painted:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/STA73408.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/STA73407.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/STA73406.jpg

 

Overall, I'm not happy with the combi-bolter, but I do like the holographic sight. Thus, I'm working on some fully customizable sets. This includes interchangeable optics, magazines, combi-weapons (plasma, flamer, meltagun) and probably additional heavy weapons.

 

Also, I'm turning the "long" bolter into a heavy bolter and making a slightly shorter version. Essentially I wanted a larger bolter that better reflected an assault rifle. Bolters have always looked like sub machine guns to me:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/HeavyBolterv2WIP4.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/HeavyBolterv2WIP.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/HeavyBolterv2WIP2.png

 

What do you guys think?

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Interesting stuff, but those cross-hatched carving lines seem like they'd be a major detractor when painting.

A lot of folks do the "long rifle" bolter look, and it always looks a tad unbalanced. If you look at the historicalprogression of the LMG and HMG, handgrips never extend the length of the barrel. Perhaps more barrel and less grip? Something to make it look more like a volume of fire weapon, and less like a "this thing is too big for me!" weapon.

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My first impression was `chunky and boxy` but - particularly looking at the painted one - they began to grow on me and I see a lot of potential in them.

If you work up some more, refine your designs, I'd love to see them.

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Thanks for the replies, guys.

 

Interesting stuff, but those cross-hatched carving lines seem like they'd be a major detractor when painting.

A lot of folks do the "long rifle" bolter look, and it always looks a tad unbalanced. If you look at the historicalprogression of the LMG and HMG, handgrips never extend the length of the barrel. Perhaps more barrel and less grip? Something to make it look more like a volume of fire weapon, and less like a "this thing is too big for me!" weapon.

 

When I made the original models, I had no way of knowing exactly where the hand would be on the bolter. I had a general idea from studying a normal bolter model. I have since fixed this issue (I hope). Pictures are below. I'm also working on a way to make the bolter less "boxy" and have more character.

 

My first impression was `chunky and boxy` but - particularly looking at the painted one - they began to grow on me and I see a lot of potential in them.

If you work up some more, refine your designs, I'd love to see them.

 

Honestly, I hated the combi-plasma at first. I felt is was way too large. But after leaving it on my desk for a couple days, it kinda grew on me. I still think it is too large to replace a normal bolter, but I'm turning it into a heavy bolter and using it as a base for other heavy weapons, such as a lascannon. I want to make heavy weapons that are more portable looking than the current ones.

 

Note, this is a WIP of my medium bolter (longer than the normal bolter, but shorter than the heavy bolter). It has sections pre-formed for magnets that are .125" x .031". It will also come with a cap for people who don't want to magnetize. Other things I'm looking into are different grip styles.

 

EDIT: I had some better pictures, but photobucket decided it no longer wants me to upload images. Maybe it will work later.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP2.png

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I like what you have done so far and the magnet idea is of course brilliant. I would recommend adding some type of "rail" system and accessories to stick on it like modern tactical weapons. I think it would be pretty interesting to have options as to where I could place some type of targeter or auspex or even a tactical light to the weapon. I like the different types of magazines you have going on and would like to see a round drum type as well. You could also make some type of folding or detachable stock as well as a suppressor or silencer for the business end. To sum up then, more options all around would make a killer product that I would definitely buy to kit out my scouts or Alpha Legion marines. Keep updating us and pm me if you plan on selling any of these little beauties.
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Great stuff - I'm really interested in the applications of rapid prototyping for wargaming minis. i have a couple of questions...

 

1.) it looks like you are using sketchup to do your 3D modelling, can you run me through how you export it to make it ready for upload to shapeways?

 

2.) how smooth is the ultra detail material? I tried white detail before and the surface texture wasnt really good enough for minis.

 

Thanks & keep up the good work!

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I like what you have done so far and the magnet idea is of course brilliant. I would recommend adding some type of "rail" system and accessories to stick on it like modern tactical weapons. I think it would be pretty interesting to have options as to where I could place some type of targeter or auspex or even a tactical light to the weapon. I like the different types of magazines you have going on and would like to see a round drum type as well. You could also make some type of folding or detachable stock as well as a suppressor or silencer for the business end. To sum up then, more options all around would make a killer product that I would definitely buy to kit out my scouts or Alpha Legion marines. Keep updating us and pm me if you plan on selling any of these little beauties.

 

Thanks. The "rail" system is basically the guide at the top. You can slide the optics to whatever position you want and glue them on. The combi-weapon locks in place with the magnet, and also has guides on either side. It's kind of like RIS, but you aren't able to take the items back off (except the combi-weapon).

 

I've contemplated stocks, but it would require either custom arms or conversion work on the part of whoever is using them. Though flashlights are definately doable. Suppressors are also on the list, and they will probably fit right into the muzzle of the bolter/bolt pistol. I imagine the medium size bolter with suppressor and scope would make for a sniper rifle as well.

 

Great stuff - I'm really interested in the applications of rapid prototyping for wargaming minis. i have a couple of questions...

 

1.) it looks like you are using sketchup to do your 3D modelling, can you run me through how you export it to make it ready for upload to shapeways?

 

2.) how smooth is the ultra detail material? I tried white detail before and the surface texture wasnt really good enough for minis.

 

Thanks & keep up the good work!

 

1) That's not really a simple question or task. Exporting itself is easy (file > Export >3d Model > .dae file

But you need to make certain that the model is not manifold and that it is closed (has all of its faces). A good place to start is here:

http://www.shapeways.com/tutorials/

 

Think of a box. That box needs to have all 6 sides on it in order to be fully closed. If you want an open box, then you need to define the thickness of the wall on the other 5 sides. In addition, it can't have another box stuck half-way through it. Both boxes need to be separated. I know it's a lot at first. It took me about a week to figure it out. Another website you should bookmark is http://sketchucation.com/. Create an account on there because you are definitely going to be downloading some plugins to make life easier.

 

2) FUD is pretty smooth, but has a lot of striations. These fade after primer and paint is added, but are still somewhat visible. You could try liquid greenstuff to help fade them out a bit, but it's not very easy to notice on a finished model. It does not have the porous issue of WD.

 

I would NOT recommend WD at all. It's very poor at capturing fine detail and is very porous (almost like Styrofoam balls you get at craft stores). It's probably okay for larger models, like those in the 1:32 range.

 

And here is some progress on the combi-melta component:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP3-1.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP4.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP6.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP7-1.png

 

Not to worry, the line in the middle will be gone once I'm done.

 

Okay, I gotta put the update in here. It's starting to look rather decent:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/MediumBolterBaseWIP10.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/MediumBolterBaseWIP12.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/MediumBolterBaseWIP13.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/MediumBolterBaseWIP15.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/MediumBolterBaseWIP16.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/MediumBolterBaseWIP11.png

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What do you guys think of angel wing jump packs? I know the blood angels have a version, but I think I can make some that look better and less... chunky. I'm thinking of starting on a set of those after I wrap up the bolters. Potentially even full kits for eldar as well to replace their swooping hawk wings (though I think these would be far more high speed, low drag looking).

 

Any thoughts?

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If the combi-flamer really comes out looking like that image (which I can only imagine it would) then it would be fantastic!

 

As for angel-jump packs: sure, why not see what you can make? Push yourself! :)

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It's actually a combi-melta attachment. But you're the second person to call it a flamer, so I guess I need to make some adjustments :(

 

No biggy though, there are some other adjustments I wanted to make anyway.

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here is a preview of the updated version. Hopefully it's looking more like a combi-melta weapon instead of flamer.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP17.png

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I think the easiest way to turn it into a melta-weapon would be to make the barrel completely round, the elongated rectangle seems far more flamer-ish to me. Nice work anyway, and it's always nice to see people making their own bits.
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Really liking the modular design, wish I had access to something like this to add some character to my marines.

 

Keep up the great work!

 

Thanks! Keep an eye on this thread. I'll let you know how to get your hands on them ;)

 

I think the easiest way to turn it into a melta-weapon would be to make the barrel completely round, the elongated rectangle seems far more flamer-ish to me. Nice work anyway, and it's always nice to see people making their own bits.

 

Yeah, but I wanted to make something more original so it's not exactly like the GW versions. I started on the flamer, and I think the two look different enough that you'll appreciate the squarish melta barrel. If not... well, circles are easy to make.

 

I'm a little surprised that nobody picked up on the muzzle evacuator pattern. It's exactly the same as a melta weapon.

 

I'd say it's looking like a combi-melta now.

Though Dark Link does have a point there, if you could make it fully cylindrical that would be even better.

 

You guys keep making me indecisive. I'd probably change it, if I didn't already have hours of work into it. But I can always make more attachment variations. It's just a matter of time.

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Time for an update:

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP19.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP20.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP21.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP22.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP23.png

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This is probably going to be the last update for a few days. Once I finish the plasma gun, I'll be making 3 more optics and 2 more magazine types.

 

I have a couple questions though. If you were to consider buying these, would you prefer to get sets of 5 bolters with everything included, or a set of 5 with only the basics and the ability to buy upgrade kits?

 

Would you want the upgrade kit to have everything, or just 1 specific type (5 combi-flamers or 5 combi-plasma or 5 combi-melta or 15 sets of optics or 20 sets of magazines).

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP25.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP26.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP27.png

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/GunMonkey/3d%20Prints/MediumBolterBaseWIP28.png

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Awesome! Really. Your thread is part of the inspiration for me sitting down with SketchUp and giving 3D modeling a try. It's great to actually see your skills evolve from post-to-post, and I hope you keep posting your progress.

 

Once thing I would suggest; Be careful for material shrinkage, and paint thickness. With items this small, even thin layers of paint, or a tiny amount of shrinkage can mean a lot.

 

Give yourself a small amount of extra room for your magnets, and the paint layers, that will come into play. Even just 1/10 of a millimeter should go a long way to make sure you have clearance. Magnets need room for glue, and paint can add up surprisingly quick. I've learned the hard way.

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Wow, I really like what I can see here :P Is there any possibility to order some of those from them based on your models? ^^

 

Thanks. I made reference to that in my latest post:

 

I have a couple questions though. If you were to consider buying these, would you prefer to get sets of 5 bolters with everything included, or a set of 5 with only the basics and the ability to buy upgrade kits?

 

Would you want the upgrade kit to have everything, or just 1 specific type (5 combi-flamers or 5 combi-plasma or 5 combi-melta or 15 sets of optics or 20 sets of magazines).

 

Awesome! Really. Your thread is part of the inspiration for me sitting down with SketchUp and giving 3D modeling a try. It's great to actually see your skills evolve from post-to-post, and I hope you keep posting your progress.

 

Once thing I would suggest; Be careful for material shrinkage, and paint thickness. With items this small, even thin layers of paint, or a tiny amount of shrinkage can mean a lot.

 

Give yourself a small amount of extra room for your magnets, and the paint layers, that will come into play. Even just 1/10 of a millimeter should go a long way to make sure you have clearance. Magnets need room for glue, and paint can add up surprisingly quick. I've learned the hard way.

 

I'm glad I'm being inspirational :). While sketchup is easier than Blender, Autocad or Maya, it's still a challenge, and doesn't do organic models very well (It's made for architectural work). That said, stop by Sketchucation and look into some plugins. They'll make life much easier. Still, expect to spend a lot of hours on projects.

 

I haven't seen any shrinkage on the 3d printed models so far. Thickness of paint is a valid point, but I can't do much for that. It's impossible to know how many layers someone will put on their model, or how thick they will be. As with everything else, it still requires the end user to do some modelling.

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If you need more detail in your 3D printing I would recommend having a look at Moddler.com. Those guys are out of California, if I am not mistaken but they 3D print with the latest technolgy available. 0.01mm accuracy. Its better than I can sculpt for sure ^^.

 

Prices for small stuff are quite good - but you could even have molds printed, so you can cast from the molds.

 

Hope that was of interest. ^^

 

Oh and YAY! I was lurking since 1847 - and now my first post ^^

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I haven't seen any shrinkage on the 3d printed models so far. Thickness of paint is a valid point, but I can't do much for that. It's impossible to know how many layers someone will put on their model, or how thick they will be. As with everything else, it still requires the end user to do some modelling.

 

Fair enough. It's just something that I noticed mentioned by one of the companies I was researching for 3D printing. The amount of shrinkage they mentioned was very small, but even a faction of a millimeter could make placing a magnet a real pain if the hole is exact in the design. I'm aiming to give magnet holes an extra 0.05mm radius, to hopefully compensate. Same goes for any object that will 'sit on rails' or 'tongue-in-groove', to try and compensate for a layer or two of paint. I was amazed how quickly paint made a nice fit into a too-tight fit on some of my early scratch build projects.

 

Also, if you plan on making moulds and resin casting, you really need to take shrinkage into account. Make sure you find specific information about just how much shrink your chosen resin will have. All of the components will shrink uniformly, so fit to each other will be fine, but again, things like magnet holes might tighten up too much.

 

To give you an example; The prototype Chaos Havoc Launcher I designed and built in my WIP thread fit perfectly into the mount. After casting with Smooth-Cast 300 (rated to shrink 0.01\in) the fit was noticeably looser. Testing with my caliper confirms it lost ~1% - From 'L24.70mm x W16.15mm' to 'L24.35mm x W15.87mm'. In that case, losing ~0.33mm wasn't a big deal, but I was surprised how noticeable it was for fit. Once I verify how consistent the shrinkage is, I plan to try to compensate at the design stage. It's just too easy to expand a design by 1%, and avoid the problem.

 

Just some food for thought. I'll stop rambling now. :tu:

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Wow, looks like I'm going to have to do my own hosting. My photobucket account just got thousands of views and ate up 10.1 gb of bandwidth (supposedly).

 

If you need more detail in your 3D printing I would recommend having a look at Moddler.com. Those guys are out of California, if I am not mistaken but they 3D print with the latest technolgy available. 0.01mm accuracy. Its better than I can sculpt for sure ^^.

 

Prices for small stuff are quite good - but you could even have molds printed, so you can cast from the molds.

 

Hope that was of interest. ^^

 

Oh and YAY! I was lurking since 1847 - and now my first post ^^

 

Welcome to the posting side of the forum.

 

Moddler is extremely detailed, but also extremely expensive ($25 for 1 bolter). I would definitely consider it if I was printing a master to use for mold making. I have no plans to do that at this time, though maybe in the future.

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