irwit Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Hi all Ordered myself a set of vallejo model air varnishes, gloss, satin and matt. Having some plus and minus point with them so far. I'm using the gloss to help with the washes as I am told they flow into the creases better. Well I tried this stage and it worked really well, I was much happier with results vs putting the wash straight on the paint. Then I put a layer of matt varnish and things went very wrong. Basically i ended up with a powder layer all over my model, like dust? Did I do something wrong? Hopefully someone can let me know where I went wrong. Anyway, did another test later and the matt varnish worked a treat, kind of. EG. I use an airbrush for the marine paint then paint sections black. Now before using varnish I never liked using black as it always had a gloss finish next to the matt finish from my airbrushed layer. Now using a matt varnish over everything the black looks correct. However the final finish of the model now looks a bit flat? Should I be using satin ? Basically just after some advice using varnishes with an airbrush, any help much appreciated ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glaeken Templaris Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 just found this guidance for your issue bud, hope it helps Step 1: Try warming up your models. Sometimes, on rare occasions, that might be help enough. For some reason the heat can melt the layer of varnish or something and restructure it... I don't know the technical reasoning for this, but it works. If it doesn't, don't put your hair dryer away just yet. Step 2: Apply a gloss varnish (any make will do but I noticed the GW and Vallejo work best). Before you do it, warm a model just a little bit as in step 1. Step 3: After the gloss varnish has dried out, heat it up again and apply matt varnish. This should fix your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 just found this guidance for your issue bud, hope it helps Step 1: Try warming up your models. Sometimes, on rare occasions, that might be help enough. For some reason the heat can melt the layer of varnish or something and restructure it... I don't know the technical reasoning for this, but it works. If it doesn't, don't put your hair dryer away just yet. Step 2: Apply a gloss varnish (any make will do but I noticed the GW and Vallejo work best). Before you do it, warm a model just a little bit as in step 1. Step 3: After the gloss varnish has dried out, heat it up again and apply matt varnish. This should fix your problem. Hey man Thanks for the advice, will definitely try it out. To be honest had another try and the Vallejo matt varnish really seems to be sucking the life out the paint, I may try applying with a brush to make sure its not my lack of airbrush skills being the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdyne Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Very flat finishes do look dusty. You'll probably find te satin finish is what you're actually looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Yeah maybe I am expecting something that I shouldn't. Are there any issues in mixing the varnishes? The satin had maybe a little too much sheen, so say 5 drops satin 2 drops matt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdyne Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 No, the Vallejo varnishes can be mixed freely. In fact they mix pretty well with everything. You may want to try Windsor and newton's galleria range, the satin and matt from those are very good, and far cheaper than dropper bottles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Will the winsor newtons airbrush ok still? Also Ive been mixing my varnishes with airbrush thinner, Im assuming this should make much difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdyne Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 Try thinning with water and a little flow improver instead. Your powdery finish can also be a result of the mix drying in-flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 When you say flow improve, is that thinner or retarder? Or is flow improver something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacinda Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 http://www.liquitex.com/flowaid/ http://www.misterart.com/painting/acrylics...w-improver.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 |Cheers for the links, I will get hold of some asap. So in terms of quantities. For The vallejo varnish I am currently using around an even ammount of drops of thinner to drops of varnish in the airbrush. What would you guys suggest in terms of ratios. How many drops varnish/flow improver/ thinner/ water ? Also would these be any different for the windsor newton matt varnish, Im going to try and get hold of that too as it sounds like it may help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdyne Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 I don't get too worried about being precise. Usually I'm thinning varnish with a roughly equal amount of water with a good few drops of flow improver. If you thin with an airbrush type medium that's alcohol based, the medium will evaporate VERY quickly. If your spray distance is long, this means your paint is dry when it hits the model, and effectively you're just coating it in dust; the varnish droplets don't flatten out (level) when they hit, and you get a chalky finish. You could spray with less flow (ie don't pull the trigger back so much) and much closer, but for varnishing this would take too long; better to use plain ol' water and flow improver; both of these keep the mix 'wetter' when it hits. You want the paint/varnish to look slightly glossy when it goes on (even with matt for the most part), you DON'T want it looking wet/runny - that just means your flow is too high. W&N varnish is pretty much the same as the Vallejo stuff in terms of behaviour (and hardness / protection). Still not as hard as a gloss lacquer, but it's good enough, so long as you (or your mates) don't pick up minis by the fist full and keep them loose in an ice cream tub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 I don't get too worried about being precise. Usually I'm thinning varnish with a roughly equal amount of water with a good few drops of flow improver. If you thin with an airbrush type medium that's alcohol based, the medium will evaporate VERY quickly. If your spray distance is long, this means your paint is dry when it hits the model, and effectively you're just coating it in dust; the varnish droplets don't flatten out (level) when they hit, and you get a chalky finish. You could spray with less flow (ie don't pull the trigger back so much) and much closer, but for varnishing this would take too long; better to use plain ol' water and flow improver; both of these keep the mix 'wetter' when it hits. You want the paint/varnish to look slightly glossy when it goes on (even with matt for the most part), you DON'T want it looking wet/runny - that just means your flow is too high. W&N varnish is pretty much the same as the Vallejo stuff in terms of behaviour (and hardness / protection). Still not as hard as a gloss lacquer, but it's good enough, so long as you (or your mates) don't pick up minis by the fist full and keep them loose in an ice cream tub. Thanks so much for all this advice, its such a great help! Sounds like I am doing a multitude of things wrong so Im really hoping this will help. I guess with varnish you'll only know if you have done it right after it is too late! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdyne Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 A dusty finish with AB'd on varnish is almost always drying in flight. Bad varnish reactions tend to result in firing stringy masses (which you should notice and stop immediately, unless you're doing it on purpose for a spiderweb effect). Wet a brush (water) and brush it on the model. If the dusty / fogging goes, you're safe to put a coat or 2 of gloss on to hide the dustyness (it's an artefact of the rough surface given by matt varnishes). Then, once dry, hit the model with satin or matt again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustydave Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Dudes. Save yourself a ton of money with gloss varnishes and buy some Johnsons Klear multisurface floor wax. You get 750ml for about £3 and it goes a LONG way, is very easy to airbrush and brush paint and is very high gloss, therefore is perfect for an intermediate layer for applying decals to, before applying a final flat coat. Its found in most supermarkets and places like Robert Dyas too. I realise it sounds odd to use floor wax, but it is acrylic based and ive been using it for years with very good results on all my models, (mainly plastic aircraft models) and furthermore its so relatively cheap compared to a specific modelling product you can spray many many layers and have multiple stages of chip protection on your models. It also aids blending of paintwork and gives a good filter effect like "propper" varnishes do. CHECK IT OUT! for the flat coat I would recommend Xtracrylix flat varnish http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/XA1FF its easily thinned with water for spraying and is DEAD FLAT when dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Dudes. Save yourself a ton of money with gloss varnishes and buy some Johnsons Klear multisurface floor wax. You get 750ml for about £3 and it goes a LONG way, is very easy to airbrush and brush paint and is very high gloss, therefore is perfect for an intermediate layer for applying decals to, before applying a final flat coat. Its found in most supermarkets and places like Robert Dyas too. I realise it sounds odd to use floor wax, but it is acrylic based and ive been using it for years with very good results on all my models, (mainly plastic aircraft models) and furthermore its so relatively cheap compared to a specific modelling product you can spray many many layers and have multiple stages of chip protection on your models. It also aids blending of paintwork and gives a good filter effect like "propper" varnishes do. CHECK IT OUT! for the flat coat I would recommend Xtracrylix flat varnish http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/XA1FF its easily thinned with water for spraying and is DEAD FLAT when dry. I thought they stopped making that? I tried to find some the other day. So does it need thinning in an airbrush and how much better is it than Vallejo? Also would you rate that. At finish any better than the Windsor? I'm sure I.l end up trying them all but be good to hear if you have tied both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustydave Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 They still make it as far as im aware, the bottle has changed from clear to white, but im still able to find it in my local shops ok. I havent tried the Windsor, im sorry. You wouldnt need to thin it at all, its thin enough to go in the airbrush neat. I find it alot easier than vallejo because it seems much less prone to clogging up the nozzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterdyne Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Klear doesn't need thinning. The new formula is slightly milky but dries clear. Stocked at morrisons, waitrose and Asda I think. Well worth having. Downside is cleanup, I find an ammonia solution is needed to clear my AB. This said, for canopies, you can coat in klear and it'll protect it from fogging with CA. A cotton bud soaked in ammonia will remove the klear and the fogging with it. Handy! You can matt it down with Tamiya flat base, but this is a pain in the arse compared to just using a big tub of premixed artists varnish of the required finish, hence me recommending the W&N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Cheers guys, ill try and get hold of some of the klear too. So I would use klear for the gloss stages and then the WN matt I think for final coverage. Couple of questions. "Protect it fogging from CA" what is CA ? When you say an ammonia solution to clean, what would that be? I have the vallejo airbrush cleaner, would this be what i am after or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustydave Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Cheers guys, ill try and get hold of some of the klear too. So I would use klear for the gloss stages and then the WN matt I think for final coverage. Couple of questions. "Protect it fogging from CA" what is CA ? When you say an ammonia solution to clean, what would that be? I have the vallejo airbrush cleaner, would this be what i am after or something else? CA = Cyano Acrylite...aka...superglue. I normally use vallejo airbrush cleaner straight after Klear use and it seems to be fine. Just make sure you clean the needle aswelll or it can work its way into the brush, set and then you have a stuck needle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Ah ok, that makes sense now :) So when you clean your sirbrush nib, what do you use? Cotton bud with some of the vallejo cleaner on it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hwarang Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Vallejo Matte Varnish applied with a brush has been amazing for me. I haven't lost any color intensity, and it's super, super matte. Does take long to apply with a standard brush either. -CH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Hi all tried the WN matt varnish and have to say its not matt at all, its definitely more of a satin finish. Used a brush to put it on. Is this right? The Vallejo matt is seriously matt, I'm going to try painting it on and see what it should look like as "correct" so I know if my result with the airbrush is correct or not. I quite like the idea on using the WN for everything then using a matt for the rubber and material sections, should hopefully give a slightly more realistic finish. May even a gloss somewhere in there too, on gems, eyes etc. What does everyone else think on using multiple types of gloss finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineswords Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 …or you can use what the pro's use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irwit Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 …or you can use what the pro's use. not another variation, lol! That guys work is amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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