Unit of the Week: Land Raider

[Jolemai]

Welcome to part three of the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series!

Following the release of the 8^th edition Codex, there is no better time to discuss all the units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield. Where part one will focus on the unique BA units and part two will focus on BA units that are new to this edition of the Codex, part three will discuss how to get the best use the generic units from the past that are still with us (and that many of us have in our armies still).

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.

Without further ado, here's this week's entry:

Land Raider

What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use a Land Raider Phobos?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)?
• Will you be running multiple units?
• What units (if any) will you be transporting and how will they be equipped?
• What optional weapons choices are you taking and does the above affect how you run them?
• Are you buffing this unit? If so, how?
• Stratagems of note?

Over to you.

[Jolemai]

Should you want your model on display here (or on another thread from the series), then submit a photo here please.

[Lemondish]

A super interesting unit I will gladly bang my head against a table to try again now that the fear of a 3++ Castellan in every match is gone.

 

Godhammer pattern, of course, because I'm not a masochist.

 

The removal of their biggest threats doesn't resolve their own issues, but it does make them more interesting (especially after the CA18 points drop).

Edited May 9, 2019 by Lemondish

[Jolemai]

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.

Meanwhile, a mono-GK force won a the Briscon 2019 GT recently with two Land Raiders:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355634-mono-grey-knights-won-briscon-2019/

 

In short, they were parked on objectives. I know this will depend on the rest of the list but is there anything we can glean from this?

Edited May 9, 2019 by Jolemai

[Escaflowne_Z]

I have had greater success with the standard Phobos pattern than the Crusader for years.  I have had solid success running decent shooting units such as Sternguard veterans in them.  The units protect each other, as they are better at killing different unit types.  The Raider acts like a bunker holding an objective early game, and it can dart out late game to contest midfield. 

 

Is that a better buy than a bunker with Devastators and a separate unit of Sternguard?  In my garage game personal meta, yes. 

[Lemondish]

 

It's a pity, too - I really love the LR as a model. Castellans, Ynnari, and the Loota bombs in some cases meant running any armour was foolish, even in casual games, so was hoping the changes would open up some more options. Sadpanda.

 

Going to try it out, though. I like the idea of the Godhammer since it really doesn't need to get close like the other two, but can protect a good shooting unit and add some mobility.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Jolemai
OT removed as per disclaimer

[Majkhel]

With those points, I'd consider the Phobos a Distraction Carnifex. A Techmarine nearby for extra suvivability seems a good thing. Definitely another source of shooty Anti-Tank is needed in the army. Devs come to mind, especially since they can hide inside LR for the first turn in case you're going second. A Librarian can cast 5++ on it, and it suddenly becomes THE TANK.
 

[Panzer]

 

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.

Meanwhile, a mono-GK force won a the Briscon 2019 GT recently with two Land Raiders:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355634-mono-grey-knights-won-briscon-2019/

 

In short, they were parked on objectives. I know this will depend on the rest of the list but is there anything we can glean from this?

 

 

In the interview he explains that the reason the Godhammer Land Raider worked so well was because of the Astral Aim and Gateway psyker powers. So very specific to Grey Knights and not something other Marines could just copy. ;)

[Xenith]

The LR has a new lease of life since the 8th ed changes to twin linked. Its' firepower has literally doubled. Comparing it to similar options:

 

4x Las pred - you get 2x heavy bolters and 10 transport capacity

Razorback with 2x HVB's - you get +4 transport cap and 4 lascannons.

 

As such I feel you have to make the most of the transport capacity to make the most of the raider. An assaulty squad inside is protected, and can get turn 2 charges hopefully after screens are softened up. 4 lascannons moving unfortunately reduces the firepower by 50%, but a jump captain running behind can give it rerolls and then leap forward to support the assaulty unit. 

[Panzer]

I have to disagree there, Xenith.

The Landraider pays mostly for its T8 Sv2+, not its Transport capacity so imo utilising the transport capacity is less important than valuing the additional durability.

 

If you can find use for the transport capacity then go for it (shouldn't be hard considering you can put any infantry into it and it's a nice alpha strike protection), but if you don't value the additional durability for whatever reason then there's no point in taking a Land Raider over a Razorback. However on the other hand if you don't need the transport capacity but think the additional durability will do you good then the Land Raider is still a great option.

If both things are valuable to you then it's obviously an even better pick so it's not wrong trying to utilize the transport capacity ... it's just not what's important about taking a Land Raider imo. ^^

 

Also moving doesn't reduce its damage output thanks to Power of the Machine Spirit.

 

 

As for what to put into a Land Raider ... I'm not a fan of putting expensive units into expensive transports. Too many eggs in one basket is something every 40k player has heard before and it's true. For me it usually worked best to put cheap-ish infantry into expensive transports. Tacticals or Assault Marines into Land Raider or Reivers into Repulsors for lategame objective capping. The reason behind that is twofold.

1. The expensive transport becomes less of a target compared to when you put Terminators or Deathcompany and such into it which means it's more likely to survive longer and maybe actually make its points back (and let's face it our transports won't really protect super important units in competetive matches anyway)
2. Those cheap-ish units usually don't do much early-mid game anyway but when they come out late in the game there are far less threats for them on the board and due your own target priority you probably already have dealed with the hard targets so what's left are mostly the soft targets those units are more or less enough to deal with while going around securing objective

 

This also works well with the fact that the Land Raider doesn't really want to get too close to the enemy lines. Instead of trying to deliver its cargo into charge range asap where it most likely gets tied up by chaff charging it or shot up before it arrives because what it would delivers is too dangerous to ignore, it can chill back with its cheap-ish and low impact cargo, shoot stuff and be a brick until late game the cargo walks out in peak condition to clean up and seal the deal (also in case if it still gets tied up by chaff it doesn't hurt as much to disembark and throw your own 'chaff' at it to free your Land Raider compared to throwing Terminators or such at it).

 

So yeah, I see the Land Raider more like a mobile bunker with neat damage output as its main role and a transporter only as secondary role. If you want a transporter then things you don't care as much about blowing up or getting tied up in melee are the better choice (or things that don't get tied up in melee like the Stormraven or Repulsor).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The impact of a landraider in a game heavily relies upon the opponent’s army and horde is quite popular now. That said I will use one from time to time to transport assault centurions (Ultramarines army).

[Hintzy]

I think Panzer makes some great points. I don't have a whole lot to add other than remember prepared positions will give Landraiders an effective 1+ save against anything with any AP. 1+ T8 is pretty solid compared to other shooty tank or transport options for weathering the first round of shooting if you don't go first.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I have played several games where a T9 LR in cover cruises through a turn of Tau or Ork shooting then the very next turn I’m rolling to see if they exploded. I think one of their greatest assets is as a transport .

[Escaflowne_Z]

I must be behind the ball.  How do we get a T9 Land Raider?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

We can’t .

[Brother Cruoris]

An allied librarian can cast might of heroes on it.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Not worth imo tbh .

[Panzer]

Well it would make S8 wound it on a 5+ and S9 wound it on a 4+. Actually quite nice. However that requires the Land Raider to survive turn 1 and the opponent not having better targets ... because why would he shoot at a buffed Land Raider if he could instead kill your other tanks? It would require for the Land Raider to be a really important target but that means it will most likely die turn 1 if you don't go first and manage to buff it. Very hit or miss with most cases ending in a miss I fear.