Gothical

I won't be using them myself - I prefer to keep them in 40K and use Cataphractii/Tartaros for my Heresy units (and not use those n 40K outside of CSM conversions).

In the preview video is a shot of an Imperial Fist Cataphractii with a Contemptor behind and a few Marines in between them - I am not sure if they are Forge World ones or if they could be new plastic Mk III and Mk IV Marines?

I am just getting into the Horus Heresy now there's lots of plastic kits, I am planning on using Bayonets/Chain Bayonets on Tacticals to help win combat against other similar units, along with a melee weapon Sergeant and a Vexilla. I am unsure which to use, it will likely depend on Legion choice (still struggling for my Loyalists but definitely Alpha Legion for my Traitors). It is not a large investment in points overall and increases what the basic unit can do reliably. Either +1 S or Shred is a fantastic upgrade depending on context, but I think the Chainsword is just too expensive for them and I would rather have a Despoiler/Assault Squad instead (or even Veterans if running a Rite of War that makes them Troops) and keep the Tactical Squads focused on shooting & positioning.

I was reading one of the Siege of Terra books (probably Solar War) where the Imperial Fists librarians are in their meditations (where they have been since the Edict of Nikea, isolated and meditating to help them keep their oaths not to use their powers) and it mentions one of the librarians having (at least sections of) blue armour. No mention of any heraldry but I thought it was interesting given that the blue seems to be more a 40K thing.

I like the reduction in the number of Command Points that the detachments offer, and love that you generate a CP in both players' command phases. The former means you have to choose whether to spend the points on a turn-1 blitz or save them up for later in the game, reducing the chance of a one-sided blow dealt before the other player can actually make a move. Having the regeneration in the opponent's command phase means you can use some of the reactive stratagems or choose to take the punishment and save the additional point to use on a more powerful stratagem than you might otherwise have had. Both add to the tactical depth of the game and I like it. I don't like the change to having to pay for the first Warlord Trait and Relic (especially Warlord Trait). Whilst this does enhance the choice of spending pre-game to boost characters or having the points to use throughout the game, I think it is just too much of a limitation and too restrictive on one of the few customisation options that many HQs have left. The newer books have limited how much you can stack Relics and Traits, stating how many times you can use the "additional relic" or "additional warlord trait" stratagem in each size of game, which is a change I approve of to combat some of the more ridiculous combinations you can create. The Warlord and Relic costs are especially an issue when you are looking at bringing one of the alternative detachment choices which don't refund any CP even if your Warlord is part of those detachments, if you still got the free Trait & Relic then at least they can still be a consideration, but weirdly taking a more "elite" or "specialised" formation means you end up with a more "generic" leader who doesn't have personal command flair or access to the armoury despite their apparent station to lead such forces. That is a good point I had not considered. I suppose there is a fairness in the player that chooses not to take a Trait or Relic getting some sort of bonus against a player who does. Perhaps a better solution, bearing in mind what I view as the issues with the additional cost, is a line added to the Warlord Trait and Relic selection rules that state that if no Trait/Relic is chosen then you gain 1 additional Command Point - same end result of the player without suitable Relic/Trait choices getting a measure of balance against a player who chooses to take them without causing what I see is too much restriction on Command Points.

I think one of the big questions is whether or not your force wants to take Marks and Icons on some units. Background-wise obviously the Iron Warriors aren't up on worshipping the Pantheon, but at the same time they will use Chaos as a tool and every Warband differs slightly in philosophy and even squads within the Warband may see things differently. You can also justify certain bonuses as being because of improved wargear/bionics rather than dedication to the Gods. Personally I will be using a sprinkling of Marks - I will be using one Legionaries squad with Mark of Tzeentch and Icon (perhaps with Reaper Autocannon and Heavy Bolter), perhaps a one squad (or two MSU) with Mark of Khorne if I am not using Raptors for the close-assault/Melta role. I might mark a Terminator unit and perhaps Helbrutes for access to additional stratagems and increased toughness, and any Daemon Prince obviously has to have a mark - but the bulk of my force will remain unmarked. Likewise, I may use a unit of Possessed - my Warsmith views them with disdain and utilises them as a "forlorn hope" unit to storm breaches in fortifications, because they are both efficient weapons and are disposable because of their weakness for making a pact with a Daemon (and/or possession was forced upon them as punishment or as a result of experimenting with applying the principles of Daemon Engines to Power Armour) so benefits the Warband as a whole. Others may view Marks and Possessed as being a corruption of the Iron Warriors ethos, so elements like that do come down to personal preference, but will alter the tactical options available to an Iron Warriors force. The Legion Trait: With the wording of "does not receive the benefits of cover" means it applies to both Light, Heavy and Dense cover, making weapons like the Reaper Chaincannon and the Obliterators' first two profiles an absolute terror to enemy infantry. It is harder to get cover for vehicles in the first place so there is less benefit to Lascannons and the like, but it is nice to have in situations where it does come up. Bypassing Heavy cover is handy for when our units launch the mop-up assaults or try to claim objectives. The second part of the trait has been modified in the Balance Update, and the combination of Armour of Contempt with preventing re-rolls to Wound can make our units incredibly tough - especially Terminators and vehicles (T9 Land Raider) - and then we have access to excellent stratagems to enhance this even further. Overall I think we have a pretty nice Legion Trait as both parts are effective and both affect almost every unit in the army on a frequent basis. The Warlord Traits: Siege Lord - this only affects one unit per turn, but it can be applied to a wide variety of units as it applies to both Core and Vehicle units - so Terminators, Havocs, Legionaries, Bikers, Raptors, Helbrutes, the regular Tanks and the Daemon Engines all can make use of this trait (even the Lord of Skulls). The damage boost makes Soulshatter Lascannons and Meltaguns absolutely devastating, improves the reliability of all of the flat D6 damage weapons, and can make weapons like the Reaper Chaincannon and Havoc Autocannon a threat to vehicles too, especially if you can improve their AP or ability to wound at the same time. As a side note, a Lord Discordant with Mark of Khorne fulfils all the requirements to make use of this trait and will absolutely tear apart vehicles in melee. Daemonsmith - this affects the units that carry some of the best firepower available to us and boosts them to hit on 2s but again only affects one unit per turn. If there is a Lord nearby granting re-rolls to 1s to Hit then this can make our weapons ridiculously reliable, or you can use the Exalted Champion's aura to improve the chance to wound alongside the boost to hit. This feels like a great trait for a supporting Warpsmith or Master of Possession that will already be hanging out with the ideal targets anyway. Unyielding Mettle - a great survivability boost that doesn't use up a Relic slot makes this a fantastic option for the Daemon Prince, Terminator Lord or Lord Discordant who also have innate invulnerable saves. It doesn't provide support for the rest of the army but helps us build a powerful monster of a character without having to choose between survivability and damage output. Bastion - Being able to apply Hold Steady to a unit of Reaper Chaincannon Havocs is really going to ruin a charging units day, likewise applying Set to Defend to a unit of Legionaries with Chainswords, Chosen, Terminators or even a Helbrute means that the models which survive the charge (which with the defensive boosts we can give Helbrutes and Terminators should be a decent number) are going to hit back hard. The second part of the trait means out incredibly tanky Terminators can hold objectives extremely well, it means you don't have to escort Havocs with Legionaries to claim backfield objectives, and that Legionaries can content objectives against both tough elite units and hordes like Orks. It is not one that looks devastating on paper but I think in-game will be surprisingly powerful. Architect of Destruction - this is fantastic for our ranged support squads and vehicles. Sadly it doesn't affect Obliterators, but it means units of Havocs and Predators/Vindicators/Forgefiends/Land Raiders/Lord of Skulls get the exploding 6s back in later turns, further enhancing our firepower. Implacable Taskmaster - whilst Havocs already have this ability built in, being able to make a normal move but still fire to full effect (not just the Heavy weapons but also applies to Malicious Volleys from the Boltguns) allows us to build a more traditional gunline but not be kept out of the objective game. Being able to reposition in the first turn and fire at full effect with Wanton Destruction active should mean a solid first-turn shooting phase, and helps out Legionaries units push on to objectives early and be closer for using Wanton Massacre into the second round. The Stratagems: Bitter Enmity - a fluffy stratagem that won't come up often, but when it does it will help boost the output of Terminators, Chosen and Possessed against the very elite units like Bladeguard Veterans that they otherwise might bounce off of, and allows Legionaries and Raptors to overcome the more regular line units. Tank Destroyers - I had to re-read this one several times. This is absolutely fantastic as you select one ENEMY vehicle and ANY Iron Warriors unit gets the bonus against the target. This is nice when so many of our Warlord traits are restricted to a single friendly unit. It also helps the mid-strength weapons like Reaper Chaincannons, Daemon Shell Heavy Bolters and Havoc Autocannons to put damage on otherwise tough vehicles. Dour Duty - applies to Core Infantry or Daemonkin, meaning that our Terminators, Possessed and Obliterators can have their survivability boosted even further. Combined with the potential for Marks (on the Terminators) and Psychic Powers (on all) we can create some devastatingly tanky units. It can be used on other targets in a pinch, but those three seem like the best general use for the stratagem. Cold-Hearted Malignity - This is really nice for those units the opponent hasn't quite finished off, making the remaining models (say a Heavy Weapon trooper, lone Meltagunner or a Melee squad leader) more dangerous and helps bog down the opponent's resources. Methodical Annihilation - this can be placed on any unit, in theory allowing a Legionaries unit with Lascannon/Meltagun a re-roll to damage (but must be declared in advance) or a Havoc unit with Missile Launchers to bombard a squad with Frag missiles, but I think the best use for it will be on a Defiler or Vindicator. Personally I am thinking of using this on a Vindicator with Combi-Melta, allowing a potential re-roll on the D6+2 Meltagun shot and getting maximum output from the Vindicator Cannon (boosting number of shots against MSU units and re-rolling damage on one of those hits if not needed on the Meltagun). The Vindicator is a really tough cookie for the Iron Warriors - T8 2+ Save ignoring 1 AP and you cannot re-roll wounds against it, and it ignores cover with an improved cannon and access to this Stratagem and the Siege Lord Warlord Trait). It can be played on a Lord of Skulls for the damage boost and maximising the hits through the Blast rule, even though the Lord of Skulls can already fire blast weapons within engagement range (and suffers no penalty for doing so), worth bearing in mind given it can have two Blast weapons with a significant number of potential shots. Unholy Vigour - combine this with Armour of Contempt, the modified Legion Trait and that Chaos Land Raider, Lord Discordant, Maulerfiend or Lord of Skulls is utterly menacing. Cannon Fodder - excellent for protecting either small model-count units (Havocs, MSU Legionaries) or expensive ones (Possessed, Terminators) or both (Obliterators). This stratagem alone makes me want to take a 10-man Terminator squad and walk them up the board behind a bow-wave of Cultists. It costs a lot of CP to use for more than one turn, but sometimes weathering just one turn of firepower will be enough to get the Terminators into the enemy lines (eg out of range first turn, screened second turn, charging 3rd turn). A great foil for the anti-elite units like Hellblasters and high-damage blast weapons. Spiteful Endurance - only applies to Mortal Wounds but now we have great multi-wound profiles Mortal Wounds are one of the better counters to CSM units. Combined with other stratagems, relics, Warlord traits and so forth this is anther tool in our arsenal to have utterly brick-like units.

I keep thinking that I want to wait on any Daemon Prince build ideas because of the new model that Warhammer Community previewed - a new Datasheet will be on the way whenever that kit drops because it clearly has a gun built into it's vambrace and there's no option of that on the existing Datasheet. Whether that is the only change or not, or if everything will get a revamp, obviously remains to be seen. Until then, I don't want to think about combos that may soon be invalid or superseded with better options. So far I am finding useful tricks for every other HQ choice (personally skipping the Dark Commune too as it doesn't really fit my Iron Warriors). The regular Chaos Lord and the Exalted Champion are the most niche but even they have a place in certain builds/playstyles.

Legion choice is really going to play into this, as Havocs can either be not that useful or utterly brutal depending on what you choose. The same applies to Legionaries but to a much lesser extent as they have more options to chose from and access to an important additional stratagem. Legionaries can be remarkably powerful - with the Icon of Tzeentch and Hatred Eternal stratagem they have a remarkable amount of firepower, and it is this that made me understand the restriction on Heavy/Special weapons. For an all-round shooting unit using both of the above, I think that a Reaper Chaincannon and a Havoc Autocannon are a good combination - with the additional AP to offset Armour of Contempt both guns become good Marine killers once again, and any infantry of a lesser quality will be shredded. The volume of shots allows them to be a threat to elite units and vehicles as well. As a mid-range unit the Reaper Chaincannon and Plasma Gun seems like the best combination, the AP of the Plasma offsetting the weakness of the Reaper against MEQ and both will be utterly brutal under Hatred Eternal. This unit can do work whether or not the Tzeentch Mark & Icon are bought, providing a decent troop option for Undivided warbands, though obviously the Icon boosts their output. As for using Daemon Shells, obviously one of the guns needs to be a Heavy Bolter to really get maximum benefit. I feel the best complement is the Havoc Autocannon - it has a long range and already has the improved AP over the Heavy Bolter, so the two work really well together with the stratagem - but are a bit of a weird combination if you don't use it in any particular turn. Although the AP boost is what most people will focus on, remember that the additional range works with the Malicious Volleys rule so even the Bolter Legionaries will be putting out decent damage. Again the Mark & Icon are good but optional. With all the large units you can take the Balefire Tome to give access to the Prescience power, trading 1-2 Bolter shots for improved accuracy for the whole unit. If the unit has a Mark then you can boost the resilience of the unit instead with the God-specific powers. MSU units still very much have a place, particularly to bring additional firepower the army may otherwise lack. A Lascannon is still helpful to have, the Reaper Chaincannon gives horde-mowing power so helps even a minimal unit be perceived as a threat and create target priority choices for the opponent, and both of these can benefit well from Hatred Eternal if you really need their guns to do work at a key point. There is a case to take the Missile Launcher if you want a flexible weapon and think you might be needing the Skyshrike Missile stratagem (note the wording of the stratagem stops Hatred Eternal combining with it). I don't really see the use for the Havoc Autocannon in a small unit as it really becomes best with the Tzeentch Mark & Icon and that is an expensive upgrade for a minimum squad. I won't get into the options for Special/Combat weapons as that is outside the scope of this thread, but it is worth noting that as powerful as these combinations can be, Legionaries can do a lot of short-range shooting/melee work as well which are also viable strategies and give a huge number of ways to run our basic Troops choice. Havocs are more of a niche unit I feel - they face very strong competition from Obliterators, Forgefiends and even the Predator Annihilator/Land Raider thanks to the improved Twin Soulshatter Lasannons. The lack of access to an Icon also makes it harder to boost their output, and this is where the Legion choice really matters - appropriately Iron Warriors can make good use of them with multiple direct/indirect boosts. With the Soulshatter Lascannons I do find it hard to think of taking ordinary Lascannons in Havocs, but given the Chaos army can be quite short on solid long-ranged firepower and these guys can move and shoot without penalty it is still an option worth considering. Reaper Chaincannons seem like a good choice, but the Armour of Contempt rules have really dented their output against common armies. The volume of fire is still significant and will force a lot of saves against MEQ and light-medium vehicles (and this is probably the main reason they can't take Icons, because the Tzeentch icon would be busted here) and obviously mulches anything lighter. 4 Heavy Bolters with Daemon Shells does look like fun, but most of the benefit will be lost against Armour of Contempt units and the additional range will often not be needed. The Havoc Autocannon and Missile Launcher seem like underpowered choices. I think I would definitely prefer 4 Autocannon as an all-comers weapon but I question if if is worth taking all-comers Havocs in the first place given Obliterators and Forgefiends exist (obviously the Autocannon Havocs become option if your army refuses to use Daemon units). With all the Havocs it is worth noting that the Exalted Champion's aura applies to ranged attacks as well, making him a surprising support unit and can help protect them from melee threats. As for other support units, a Sorcerer (or nearby Legionaries unit with Balefire Tome) can use Prescience to boost their accuracy and any of the three God-specific powers can boost their resiliency which could be very useful since they are T5 base and really don't want to take casualties. I don't think a Chaos Lord would be worth babysitting the unit(s) with unless you have a specific gunline castle in mind.

Gifts of Chaos allows a character with a Mark to take a second relic provided that 1) one of those relics replaces a weapon and 2) neither can be a Daemon Weapon. So your example of Black Mace and Inferno Tome is fine, but an example earlier in the thread of Ul'o'cca The Black and Armour of Badab is unfortunately prohibited. Keeps tripping me up too when I am thinking about Character equipment - I either want two pieces that aren't weapons, or I want a Daemon Weapon alongside something else, so have to go back to the drawing board.

I am building an Iron Warriors force, my first army when I started in 3rd Edition so I am rather nostalgic. There's so many good options, units can get expensive fast with upgrades, and so many different tricks I want to try that it is hard to write full army lists at the minute. Terminator bricks, Daemon Engine hordes, mechanised, foot slogger, deepstrike heavy.... so many choices! I am tempted by a couple of small forces of Word Bearers and Night Lords, both of whom I also collected in the old days and could focus on the units I might not otherwise take in the Iron Warriors.

I thought I had to be missing something like that, a pity. -3 is the most you can get from unit combinations then. The Leadership/Combat Attrition abilities are still quite valuable though: Lord of Terror Warlord Trait helps with actual Morale checks especially against units with their Ld reduced to only 7/6. Flayer relic, One Piece At A Time warlord trait and Flay Them Alive stratagem help to melt units that lose combat no matter how tough they might otherwise be. Terrifying Phenomena Stratagem can shut down the auto-pass stratagem and re-roll abilities to allow Night Lords units to use the aforementioned abilities to the full. I think they will be better than a lot of the initial pessimism I am seeing has them, these are just the Ld/Morale/CA based things, there are some very nice Warlord Traits, Stratagems and Relics available to them as well.

I have a quick question, more of a rules one really but fits with what people have been saying about Night Lords, and also goes for Possessed and Raptors: The way the various -Ld rules are worded are "Whilst within X of this unit..." - so does it not stack with multiple units? So 2x5-man Night Lords impose -4 to Leadership? My previous experience with such rules has always been written "Whilst within X of a unit with this ability" or "Whilst within X of any unit with this ability" or "one or more units with this ability" etc, which explicitly prevented the effects from stacking. Is there a core book rule/FAQ I am missing that addresses this?

To clarify a little, I have been on-and-off collecting Chaos Space Marines since 3rd Edition, you know the dark-reddish skinny codex with the close-up of the Chaos Lord's face on the cover. For a few years I was awaiting new basic CSM models to dive back into my Iron Warriors, but those models came and regular Space Marines got a significant buff that left the poor bad boys in the dust. This has meant that my modern units have sat on the sprues so luckily I can adapt very easily and don't have the heartache associated with the new restrictions. Finally we have an up-to-date Codex and a fantastic model range for the most part (Bikers and Defiler I am looking at you!) and whilst I wait for my true love (Imperial Guard) to get an update I am really excited to get my first ever 40K faction back on the table. At the moment I think this is the best Chaos Space Marines codex since the halcyon days of the so-called 3.5 book. Everything feels like it has a place and although there are clearly some Legions stronger than others, none feel like they are pointless - even Night Lords look decent (remember it is LD5 OR under half-strength to trigger the +1 To Wound, and the army now has some brutal firepower to get units under half) with some strong Warlord Traits, Stratagems and Relics (and a very nice Secondary Objective option). The restrictions on Terminators and Chosen still make me sad, although viable units of both can be made it is still a shame to lose such great customisation. Having gone through the Stratagems I can now understand the restrictions on Legionaries' wargear - Hatred Eternal would be devastating on a unit with paired Special/Heavy weapons (either 32 shots from Reaper Chaincannons, 8 shots from Plasma Guns pus 2 Plasma Pistol shots, or 4 shots from Meltaguns or Lascannons all from a unit that can self-boost with Psychic Powers, Marks and Icons and brings along Objective Secured for good measure not to mention Legion bonuses and an absolute ton of melee attacks to stop them being bogged down by chaff for long) and, provided you can have a steady stream of Command Points, would mean taking stuff like Chosen, Terminators and even Havocs would be questionable. Gifts of Chaos is unique in that it allows Chaos characters to have 2 relics (with some important restrictions) which can open up some powerhouse combos with the Legion Relic options and have some truly brutal characters. This is awkward with the Chapter Approved changes to initial Command Point availability and having to buy the Warlord Trait and initial Relic too, but at the same time that means this Stratagem isn't an auto-take in smaller games and/or if you want to have tactical options available in the opening turns and so keeps it balanced. Trophies of the Long War brings back some options for unit champions that are otherwise lacking them - especially Terminator and Chosen Champions - though mileage will vary by Legion choice. A few of the available Relics don't replace weapons so can be taken by Possessed Champions. One that any Legion can take is of particular interest: taking Black Rune of Damnation on a Terminator unit, especially with Mark of Tzeentch or Nurgle (then add in Legion traits and Stratagems that can make them even tougher too). A 10-man unit tricked out with gear (2 Reapers & Chainfists, 4 Combi-Melta & Power Fists, 2 Combi-Plasma & Accursed Weapons, 2 either standard or dual-Accursed) and these combos will be very expensive but incredibly deadly and durable whether walking up the board or using Warp Strike. I am just excited about many of the units and combinations and different playstyles that all seem viable. It feels like a Chaos codex should once all of the different elements and interactions are taken into consideration. You can keep things cheap and efficient with optimised units and plenty of points for Stratagems, or really go to town and create a highly elite force of killing machines, and both seem like they will be viable on the tabletop.

I haven't gone through the Stratagems, Traits, Legion rules and Relics in detail yet, I only got the book this morning and was more focused on the basic unit profiles. I really dislike the weird ways that Terminators, Chosen and Legionaries have restricted equipment. If it wasn't for that little asterisk I would love the basic CSM squad (it seems the only reason that restriction exists is so the basic squad doesn't outshine the elites with their restricted equipment). The addition of the Heavy Chainaxe and Balefire Tome help to improve their potential - Smite and Infernal Gaze add some "ranged" output, Prescience makes the whole squad better at melee, and Diabolic Strength means a Champion with decent melee weapon or a Heavy Chainaxe can really do some damage (or be used to boost a nearby Lord etc). By my reading on the rules, Marks of Chaos means a Balefire Tome unit gains the Tzeentch/Nurgle/Slaanesh powers too, which will make Legionaries very hard to shift. I know it is based on kit load-outs but the Terminators are just painful. At least you can take 2 Combi-Melta/Flamer, I read it as only 1 of each Combi at first, but the 1 Chainfist and 1 Combi-Plasma just feels so very awkward. Lightning Claws being Accursed Weapons feels like it sucks the diversity out as well. I feel it would have been nice to have 2 Heavy Weapons in the unit to make up for loss of Combi-Weapon options, but I wouldn't want to field 1 Reaper and 1 Heavy Flamer in a 5-man squad so I guess there is no real loss. Termicide is certainly dead, but I think they can still be a viable unit once all the additional options in the book are stacked - Marks, benefitting from Powers, Legion Traits, Stratagems and so on. For small units I can see making an anti-tank squad with 2 Combi-Melta, some Power Fists and a Chainfist on the Champion (who also perhaps takes a Combi-Plasma. MAYBE the unit takes a Reaper Autocannon but I think I would rather have 2 bullet-spongers, but with 3 wounds each is that necessary?); or an anti-infantry squad with 2 Combi-Flamers, Heavy Flamer (remember the Let The Galaxy Burn bonus) and pair of Accursed Weapons on the Champion. Units of 10 might be viable too, with 2 Heavies, 4 matching Combis and 2 Combi-Plasma along with a mix of melee weapons (2x Chainfists, 2x dual-Accursed, up to 6 Power Fists). Although the lack of an Icon is a shame, the first bullet-point ability of the Marks of Chaos will all be useful. Chosen are in a weird spot having restricted wargear choices too. I do see them as having a niche anti-MEQ role, which interestingly the Terminators are worse at ranged-wise, with 2 Plasma Pistols and 2 Combi-Plasma per 5. A squad of 10 can really melt some faces and mop up the survivors in melee. Note these guys can take an Icon, unlike Terminators, so benefit from the second part of the Mark of Chaos abilities which further enhances their lethality alongside benefitting from all 3 "Wanton" rules when they kill someone. Throw in Powers and Prayers on top of that and they will hit like a ton of bricks. I think these might be a bit of a sleeper unit as the wargear restrictions make them look mediocre but can stack abilities through the roof if you want. Non-Terminator characters have basically no wargear choices, but I think that is where the vast array of Relics comes into play. That is awkward with the Chapter Approved: War Zone Nephilim changes to Command Points (and yes, unfair compared to Loyalists), but some of the early-game shenanigans the Loyalists could do are now limited by the same restrictions, especially if they choose to use some of the powerful Relic/Trait combinations. A Terminator Lord is the go-to now if you want to keep your CP pool high but still have a decent character (alternatively you can use a Daemon Prince or Lord Discordant if those fit with your army). My heart dropped when I saw the Havoc entry but then I realised that you can replace any of the weapons despite the initial squad load-out. That was a worrying read initially, especially with all the official pictures of 2x2 weapon units). Building Cultist units is now easier than ever (mix of Lasgun and Autogun models, or even more esoteric weapons like black-powder guns or crossbows, permitted as generic "Cultist Firearms" means more conversion options) and can have a variety of Special Weapons if you want some variety in the horde. They seem useful but won't overshadow other choices, which is as they should be. Accursed Cultists make a slightly better bullet-sponge unit and are actually a melee threat but regular Cultists are cheaper and can still perform Actions (plus fit into some Legions better than mutant rabble) so it is nice to see both types of unit having a place. Obliterators still look pretty good to me - short range is offset by Warp Strike, the profiles are nicely powerful (Warp Hail strong enough to decently wound Orks, easily wound Guard/Eldar, Ruinous Salvo for taking down Marines and light vehicles with -2AP and 2 Damage, Focused Malice is a decent anti-tank shot albeit more vulnerable to random shots than the other two profiles. Remember the stats are per Obliterator, so 2 or even 3 are going to throw out a hell of a lot of damage against any target. The Crushing Fists are also very good and the ability to shoot whilst engaged further ups their "melee" power so I think these will be real stars again and go through almost any unit like a hot knife through butter. I love the changes to vehicles. The Helbrute looks decent enough (Plasma Cannon so any Overheat triggers Frenzy for the rest of the game is an interesting idea, can have Marks of Chaos - Khorne and Slaanesh will make it nasty in combat, Tzeentch and Nurgle harder to hurt). The Venomcrawler is neat and doesn't have a degrading profile (remember Balefire Tome Legionaries are Psykers so benefit from Reservoir of Daemonic Energy), whilst the Forgefiend can now shoot worth a damn, the Maulerfiend is going to be brutal and the Heldrake is now lethal again with Baleflamer and Let The Galaxy Burn. The Twin Soulshatter Lascannons on Predator/Land Raider look very nice (although it makes me reluctant to take regular Lascannons now these exist), and a Vindicator with Combi-Melta and Siege Shield will be fun. Ultimately the only vehicle I am not sure about is the Defiler. Raptors, Warp Talons, Bikers and Spawn (butts of jokes in the last books) seem pretty good, and the new Possessed are finally reliable powerhouse melee units but weirdly cannot take a Mark of Chaos (only CORE or CHARACTER can - so the only other Daemon-typed units in the book that can take Marks are the Daemon Prince and the Lord Discordant) All-in-all I really dislike the changes to Lords, Terminators, Chosen and the weird restriction on Legionaries but the rest of the book feels solid, fun and with a lot of different options and playstyles to keep things fresh and suit most themes. Hopefully the Legion rules, Stratagems, Relics and Warlord Traits all come out at least decent when I go through those in detail, but even if they don't the book has a really solid foundation in its datasheet units to keep things fun even if they don't. Finally, what may be giving me a more positive opinion than many others is that my CSM has been sitting on the sprues waiting for a new Codex since Marines got boosted at the edition start, so I am lucky that I don't have to rearrange squads or pull models apart to try to fit legal builds into the more restricted framework. I completely understand the frustration for everybody with existing collections that have to make such changes.

One little thing that I see hasn't been mentioned is the (very likely Salamanders) Flame-based relic weapon. Page 166 of Codex Space Marines, under Flamer weapons, says: It is likely this is a souped-up Combi-Flamer, based around the following from the same section: There's a chance it might belong to another Chapter (Iron Hands, perhaps, since they have lost the Combi-Melta going by the lack of mention in the Melta Weapons section) but between being a Flame weapon and having a name related to drakes I am pretty certain it's a Salamanders one. Otherwise, I am just looking forwards to a hearty chunk of background (perhaps addressing some of the old Cities/Companies questions for example) relics, warlord traits, stratagems and psychic powers. I very much doubt we will have any units aside from Vulkan He'Stan (presumably Primarised) unless GW really wants to surprise us with a wave release. Certainly thinking more along White Scars lines than Ultramarines, that's for sure. +EDIT+ Oh, and a Primaris upgrade sprue. Really hope it has a Thunder Hammer and Hand Flamer on it to help fill out the options available to the squads (The UM one has a Power Sword, the WS one Chainsword, the IF one in the box set had a Power Fist). I would certainly like to see an expanded armoury - the option for Hand Flamers in the ranged weapons list and Heavy Flamers in Tactical Squads would fit the background, but so far no Codex has had a (non-Stratagem) way of modifying existing datasheets.