Brom MKIV

@prot so is there a thread to vent about the book? A collection of valid complaints can be constructive as I suspect GW can read. Hell they probably have accounts here. If they pay sites to give positive reviews why not joining a forum too?

Long time since I posted around these parts. XX Legion player primarily although I dabble in several legions including NL. While I can see potential in the new rules I am incredibly upset about many of the changes which will shelve literally 80 percent of my alpha legion. I want to give the book a shot but I can't. I can't get past it. My units of converted cbplas chosen, all my terminators, some of my berserkers and nearly all my characters, and to an extent my cultists and there's more. In addition and just as impactful, these seemingly small changes have completely changed the dynamic of my army so that I cannot play the style I enjoy. I feel we are now shoehorned into a rush at you style. And while the models potentially gained durability this comes with cost so any army I could field would be much smaller. So smaller, more linear, less ranged presence, less board control and so on. I will say I like the art and the new models I've seen. There are some nice things in the book and that almost makes it more frustrating to me. I DO want some of those things, by they don't outweigh what was removed. I also see some improvements and this Includes some of the relics and WLTs although other favorites have been nerfed or removed. But viewing these as a straight plus is ignoring the reduced starting cp and the increased cost to include even the first WLT and relic. I personally enjoyed the previous legions rules and had success. And spent quite a lot of money and time. To get this level of invalidation of my investment is a slap in my face. Been playing since 4th sorry but I agree with the sentiment on NL and AL. And generally any list not predicated on Abaddon. On point.. how I'm adapting? I'm not. I'll wait until I get rules I can personally enjoy that respect my collection. In the mean time I'll play the previous rules or play a different army depending on my opponent and the event. If magically GW decides to put combi weapons and jump packs back in order and opens up the war gear on HQs I will revisit this statement.

Greetings and welcome back! I can say a LOT has changed since then. The game was a put off for me initially due to lack of depth but that has increased enough to hold my attention again. The good news is that heretics have been in a decent spot in 8th and I'd say now in 9th as well.. depending how competitive you are will determine how big your playbook is. Anyway on your list yes I feel you could play most of that stuff semi competitive or all of it in more narrative type games. However, you will likely not be fitting all those toys into a 9th list due to the pts increases for all armies which was related to the reduction in board size by approximately 25 percent. A very quick eyeball puts that list over 2500 easy. Standard size game is 2k fyi although the rules support any size really. In 8th you could and often would play 3 detachments aka soup to access the best of all worlds. Now this is much more difficult and corner case. Single faction lists are more viable then before but there is still quite a bit of incentive to bring 2 detachments and combine legions. Just to illustrate the more typical list building approaches. For specifics: Nurgle DP (all DPs) took a hit with cost increase making them from no brainer to less appealing than more efficient options but still.. ok. However death guard and Tsons specific DPs are still really good. Termie sorc and lord are both still really solid includes. Full squads of csm are not great atm but will get better with upcoming changes to 2w and ap1 chainswords. Right now I'd suggest breaking them into units of 5 although 10 aren't unplayable. weapon loadouts need to change IMO. No flamers. Double up on plas, matching combi weapon. Or dual heavy weapons based on purpose. Zerks are really solid if fragile until the 2w thing. I like running multiples personally. Rhinos and generally mechanized infantry is in a better spot then its been in several editions in my experience. Pretty cool. And on that note I would suggest breaking one or more csm units into 5s and loading them AND a min sized zerk unit into each rhino since you can do that now days. Dump one to camp and shoot and the other to clear. PMs are fantastic in this edition and will border on the best troops in the game status with 2w (to keep emphasizing lol). Here I would not suggest min sized but instead 6-8 with 7 actually being a sweet spot. Double flails and a mix of blight launchers or plas and the rest plague knives is a damn solid unit whether troops (DG) or even from specials in whatever legion you roll. Terminators are playable and not the worst thing you can do with 170 pts but keep them cheap and efficient. MANY things will evaporate them still and making 9" charges is very difficult outside of a couple legions. My advise is all cbplas and chainaxes. If you have extra pts add a chainfist. Oblits have been fantastic. Now in 9th they lost the cmd reroll ability to effect their randomness. Still a solid unit but fitting 2x3 will set you back 630 pts. Certain legions are better at these aka IW and AL. Consider master of possession if you really want to make them work well. Daemons unfortunately are more a pain then its worth now days IMO. From a CSM perspective that is. You can take a daemons detachment I suppose and then your probably wanting nurgle. Otherwise your stuck with summoning. Unless your just dead set on these I feel theres better things you could be doing wit the pts. Anyway just from the top of my head hope that helps a bit.

Having a measurement for height handy should be enough, or else a stand in model. In my alpha legion I use alpharius as my daemon prince. It's pretty close but if it's a key measurement I'll just bust out a tape or give them the benefit. Those TOs need to man up IMO. Modeling for advantage should be case by case not blanket ruled. It's like art vs porn.. you know it when you see it.

Wow the claims of modeling for advantage are getting taken too far and its bs in those instances. I'd be pissed. When I modify something I just explain ahead of time and offer concession on any LoS instances that may come up. So far no issues.

I like all of this and was actually thinking of similar. Except one thing.. I don't think the stone deserves such a hefty nerf. Keep it from stacking with duty eternal. Thats enough IMO.

I meant incursors but I misread your list. All the names look alike to me.

yeah sorry. ive only had 3 coffees this morning Haha what a coincidence I've only had 3 wines.. Hey man I dig your list btw! Unorthodox and thematic. Few questions if you don't mind.. How did the incursors do? I can't seem to find a reason for them over infiltrators. What did you use the libby for typically? How useful did you find RG CT, vs successor. In this case especially I think fussilades and/or artisans would be strong. I like artisans and wwor currently. Anyway nicely done.

I have yet to face IH so far but its coming. But which version Idk.. the castle, the highly mobile flying one, the character dread spam with oolos weapons one? I did read from a post on dakka today fwiw it goes as follows: Speaking to one of the play testers today about the IH issues. While he's bound by contract not to disclose specifics of things. He did say there was a MASSIVE error in communication in regards to the IH book. Which is part of why the FAQ is late.

Hey Hiro don't feel bad we were playing it like that too initially. Haha 8 shot stormbolters.. and the relic bolters were pretty insane too. Took out Bjorn with Maelstrom's bite.

Haven't ran chosen yet although I may find a reason down the road. As mentioned though they get beaten out by noise marines on one hand and termies on the other. That said I still think they are playable. Possessed are not IMO. I've fielded them a few times now, always 8-10 strong always alpha legion and always infiltrated via FO. They have two major problems I did not identify on paper and one I did. The first is random attacks. I knew this would hurt but in-game its too much requiring CP "fuel" to keep them reliable and when combined with these other two... Multi-wound and moral phase still make these guys seem over costed at 22 pts a model. Lastly and this might be a surprise, but no access to a PF champ. Yep the deal breaker. Twice they've been completely shut down because of a fething charging transport they could not scratch and only exacerbated by rolling 1 on their attacks characteristic. Done with them for now, at least until GW ups their attacks by +1. Edit- and/or allows them to fall back and still charge or even gives them champion equipment access.