TiguriusX

I learned that after playing the hammerstrike wrong in my first few games The hammerstrike and Bjorn are not tank aces (sad bc hammerstrike has a ton of d6 damage) Lancer + 3xvindicators + firestrike servo turrets are all tank aces

As crazy as it sounds I'm probably gonna start the testing with Recon...its a kill and annoy someone army which fits the list I have in mind. I haven't found ANYTHING that realistically lets us take and hold (i.e., survive without dying) I even tested bricks of 10WG with +1 T...the game is too lethal...I think take/hold is a freaking trap

absolutely not the vindicators having all the buffs is what makes up the offense in this list I really hope they change toe in LOS so these types of shooting lists disappear It is simply too easy for fast shooting units with Assault to erase whatever they want. My DG opponent was literally hiding g Morty way in the back so I couldn't zoom around and get an angle at him...and I dont blame him. As soon as my sustain hits vindicator got LOS I activated full wound rerolls and erased him As soon as LOS gets nerfed back to where it should be ill go back to foot melee in impulsors. But right now that is just asking to die Speaking of melee....great wolf + librarius Njal + headtakers 7+2+6 advance and charge (15" guaranteed with biomancy + njal...18 if you start the turn in a transport) another brick ragnar and then terminators with librarian and celerity...all the advance and charge needed thats my next project

Turn 1 v DG I used my advance aura to get angles and erase his deployment that wasn't hiding Wiped out a demon prince and a beast of nurgle + 2/3 nurglings 98-46 victory DG had Morty + Rotigus + 3xGUO Headhunter Task Force Vindicators DGAF muwahaha

Yes I have 2 wins against salamander + librarius purge I have the advantage in the tank battle. I put my Lancer and sustain vindicator and hammerstrike in reserve. If any LRR moves into the open it is dead as soon as my turn comes up. I put extra AP on my lancer so he punches through 2+ armor*. He also has 2 full RRs so the heavy laser is very reliable. If I need more shots the vindicator uses the reroll wound strat and mops up. If things go well I can usually pop 2 LRR. Don't forget I also have 2 other vindicators on the table to start...so he can't blitz at me without fear either. As a reminder...my detachment lets me reroll tank damage. So the D6 vindicators are not as prone to swinging and missing I usually win the infantry fights as well b/c they have to dedicate big attacks to my terminators b/c torrent flamers are not consistent...I'm fine trading MSU terminators for that. My vehicles instantly wipe out whatever killed my terminators. If they try to run out and out OC me then I overwatch with firestrikes and remove models to lower their OC. My terminators are OC2 so I don't have to kill a ton of models to ruin their plans. Their infantry ranged weapons also can't be used to chip damage my vehicles...if they fire at me I spend 1 CP and return fire and wipe them out Also...if they walk in my LOS I 100% overwatch with firestrike servos...putting them dead center touching terrain for max LOS is my favorite position They need the dev wound strat to take down my vehicles so it is limiting them to 1 per turn (and I have seen them whiff and leave a vindicator alive...which returns fire) The melee attacks getting are my biggest concern. But they have to cross a ton of ground to reach me and I have a reactive move stratagem for my tanks. It is only D6" but it does deter them. Finally...my terminators are no slouches in melee either...I can counter charge their melee and have 1 squad in DS that can rapid ingress and catch them sleeping Here is a screenshot from a random salamander game I had...that red line was confirming LOS to Vulkan and his retinue who got absolutely erased by a vindicator and firestrike...reminder I can auto advance 6" and still fire if my vehicles are in my enhancement aura...the only thing I lose is rerolling damage My lancer is missing because it was killed by those fulgrim detachment speeders This list didn't have LRRs but it had similar tricks

The sternguard brick you described is a very popular and deadly choice in purge lists You just need a delivery system (drop pod or UM and ventris buff to drop in as offense...or hide in a LR in the back as a defensive deterrent) They have to get in rapid fire range to get full damage

Yes and no A brick of 10 SW or vanilla SM terminators when focused down is easy to kill. I think that is the major flaw with a terminator heavy list. You spend a ton of points on the 10 man bricks and have nothing else in your list. So your opponent is rewarded for focusing down and erasing bricks using all their combos and synergy buffs The list I have been running instead seems to flip that around. I have 3 5-man terminators with OC2 per model I used them the same way I was using my GHs...they are disposable action monkeys The difference is all those skirmishing units people use to kill action monkeys are NOT reliable to kill terminators. This causes a problem for my opponent. Do they expose a heavy hitter to kill 5 measly terminators? If they do I will clap back and erase whatever he used (headhunter task force vindicators are insane guys). If they ignore my terminators I start building a primary scoring lead. I think I may have found our SW niche for 11th...I am 3-0 in my last 3 games with it I was wrong about GHs with OC3 being super action monkeys...it was the OC2 terminators all along using Legends of Saga and Song playing Priority Assets

I tested a Take/Hold 30 terminator list...the idea was durable and tons of OC I was 1st company task force + Legends of Saga Used assault terminators + Thirst for Glory (OC+1) Attached an ancient in terminator armor to them (OC+1) I had OC3 terminators...with 1st company task force I could sticky and do -1 dmg if I got charged None of that mattered...I still ended up losing terminators in droves and was basically tabled by turn 3 in my test game Without guns to scare my opponent away I was just target practice. Felt like I was a punching bag and waiting for things to happen to me...hated the entire experience Going back to my headhunter task force + legends of saga test list (priority assets disposition). At least I am actually winning games with that list Remember the Iron Wolves!!!

If you plan on shooting you better bring a source of ignore cover I've added a hammerstrike to all my lists There are units out there capable of getting both COVER and -1 to hit...that means ballistic skill 3 marines hit on 5s GKs are 1 example with this combo using GrandMaster Voldus in a squad of paladins standing on terrain

I had 2 games against different GK purge lists with a version of List A above Went 1-1 I could definitely feel the pressure of having to fight AND do action when facing a purge list In both my post game chats I was told am still playing with a 10th mindset and spreading out and doing secondary cards etc. Instead I need to focus on my specific primary scoring Slowly but surely...gotta learn the nuances of 11th

Now that we have official points etc. why don't we share and get all our creative ideas flowing...here are the next 2 lists I intend on testing (sat/sun I have a few scrimmages lined up) *Disclaimer...when I play SW lists I always try to maximize SW unique units/rules Also...I think Bjorn with helfrost and parked right behind your expansion is gonna be standard SW play. He can overwatch and torrent any small fast infantry that try to out OC you or he can heroic anything that charges on to try and kill your expansion holders. List A tests out GHs as the SW specific action monkey (can pick Priority or Disruption...I don't know what is better yet...will try Priority first) List B tests out the SW specific terminator detachment for Take and Hold

That discount doesnt bother me bc I dont see the purpose in taking 10 Intercessors for most SM lists (DA with Azrael leading sometimes does it) The value comes from being cheap 5 man MSU who have useful shooting and sticky And unless there is a rule I dont know you cant split a 10 man Intercessor into two 5 man squads as needed. With 10 GHs and the veteran detachment we get to split them into two separate 5 man 15 OC MSU squads who can advance and do actions

It's the maps/missions that determine our success in 11th Learn how to maximize the new hidden mechanic and how to score your primary. Denying opponent primary scoring is not as easy as it was in 10th edition I now believe 4x5 GHs using veterans detachment is powerful and likely a must take for us as a faction 4 turns of 15 OC who can advance/fallback and still perform an action (never shooting though...keep hidden) GHs are how we control/contest the central objective GHs should perform well in any force disposition except purge by helping in the middle and being action monkeys wirh mobility That leaves you flexibility to fill in the remainder of your army and detachment/disposition as you please Can't wait to see armies and battle recaps being shared from you all

We need the FAQ and commentary to confirm the specific language needed But in a general interpretation...if "any" strat or datasheet ability meant there was no restriction to post ingress movement then the rule is meaningless. Without some type of strat or datasheet ability you can't move after an ingress anyways. And under your interpretation having an ability bypasses the restriction. Therefore the rule restriction does nothing. IMO the ingress rule stops all abilities that grant out of phase movement (shoot and scoot...blood surge...reactive moves etc.)

Just played my first game of 11th...we are so wrong about everything we are discussing I want to scream it from the mountain tops...SW and Purge are gonna be a horrible combination Reality hit me in the face when I saw the map and the huge distances we must travel to even threaten enemy units Wherever you think you can stage a melee unit...remember your opponent will touch the extreme opposite edge of the center objective and ruin your day I played Purge v Take and Hold This wall enclosed terrain on the left looks like a great staging point at first...but proper placement at the opposite side of the central objective means you are approximately 19.3" away...good luck reaching that Foot based melee is DEFENSE only...there are exceptions like rapid ingressing into terrain and avoiding fire due to "hidden" But for the most part...foot based melee simply can't get where they need to go...and in purge you have to aggressively hunt down and chase units to kill...the middle objective is so large you can easily manipulate the distance to your opponent. And if you try and stage you will be annihilated. Everyone using "toe in" to see through terrain means vehicles can easily get angles and wipe out your units trying to stage. The critics calling this a shooting edition were 100% correct Standing "in the open" by putting infantry onto terrain to activate "hidden" is the super power of 11th and your only hope of staying alive I totally understand the value of TAKE AND HOLD now. Put extremely durable infantry on terrain/objectives (looking at you SW terminators)...dig in and make the enemy come to you and enter your kill zone...that is the better approach to 11th 11th is a completely different animal...don't bring 10th edition army building ideas to the party like I did.