The Emperor's Champion

The Marines Errant are a Successor Chapter to the Eagle Warriors, making them one of the few slightly more complex "branches" of the "family tree". I'd be interested to know why there's a Successor of a Successor. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/2/23/MarinesErrant.jpg/529px-MarinesErrant.jpg

The Sons Of Orar are NOT Alpha Legion. That's obviously nonsense someone randomly made up because they have an Omega as their symbol. They're almost certainly the Ultramarines Chapter that were lead by Captain Orar during the Heresy/Scouring. In any case, they're clearly acknowledged by the Codices as being Ultramarines, just with a slightly fuzzy background. I'd say it's likely they're a forgotten Primogenitor Chapter. The Silver Skulls are Ultramarines too. Guilliman clearly acknowledges them as his sons since he returned, as they were among the first on his list with the other Ultramarines Chapters to be sent Primaris reinforcements, meaning they MUST HAVE been a part of the Legion in some capacity. Likely a Chapter. The Fulminators are a brand new (albeit held in stasis for 8000 years) entirely Primaris Chapter. They were never part of the Legion.

Sicarius has never really been particularly good. Great character design, useless rules. That said, Sicarius counts as a Captain. He has the <Captain> keyword and "Captain" is in his name. TECHNICALLY there doesn't seem to be anything stopping you from upgrading him to Chapter Master (aside from that it's a stupid idea). He can't have Relics because there's specifically a rule saying named Characters can't have them, but no such thing is mention about application of Stratagems.... Just a weird thing I noticed the other day.

Vortex weapons are so rare in the 41st millennium they might as well be considered unique artifacts. Would a deathwatch team be able to get their hands on one? It's extremely unlikely but it's not outside the realms of possibility. However, it would require an entire quest-line to get a hold of one solitary grenade, if I was GMing, as they're so rare. It would be easier to use more conventional forms of weaponry, I think, like massed Lascannon fire or bringing your own Titan to the fray. So... the TL;DR version: Probably not. IIRC, Deathwatch has rules for Vortex weapons and the requirements to requisition them (which could be bypassed for scenarios specific reasons.)

I think it's quite possible that you vastly underestimate the amount of technology that goes into the missiles that Marines rapid fire from their rifles. Or maybe you don't. Given that Marines can be neurally linked to their Bolters through their armor's autosenses (that's what some of the plugs on the arm armor are for), it's likely that they could feasibly just think at their gun to set the fuse, or the desired depth of penetration before detonation. It's also possible that a bolt itself is sophisticated enough to work out how much resistance a target has put up to its travel. If it senses that it impacted hard against something solid and then began to pass through something soft but denser than air, it'd know to detonate. It's also possible that bolts somehow relay this sort of data back to other bolts that have yet to reach their target along the same trajectory, and the bolts auto-correct each other an instant before they detonate. Perhaps bolts have proximity sensors so that they can be set to simply explode inches from a target's face. Unfortunately, we don't get a whole lot of time spent on describing the various types of ammo in immense detail. We know the basics, but we don't know that Astartes bolter ammo isn't more complex. We know it's sometimes massively larger than human Bolter ammo. Maybe a regular bolt shell just goes pop and special ones are super complex. It's possible that Bolt Pistol ammo, while technically the same specs, actually has the fuses all dialed in to be more effective at shorter ranges... Who knows?

I tend to think similarly, too. That's part of the "Oh, sh**..." aspect of the Heresy. The bolter is designed to make absolute mincemeat of everything in the galaxy (and did so...) but when Mankind was most threatened, it was threatened by itself. The weapons of its champions, so effective at annihilating humanity's foes, were much less reliable when the true threat made itself known. The bolter was designed to destroy aliens and subjugate wayward human cultures, and none of those foes could ever match the Space Marine Legions of the Great Crusade era. And in 40K, the efficacy still holds true. Most of the time, Space Marines and the Sisters of Battle are fighting enemies that are pulverised into foul-smelling paste when facing the business end of a bolter. It's only when they face themselves, or the sins of the past made manifest (in the form of the Chaos Marines) that things to go heck. In direct opposition to Dan's quote mentioned earlier in the thread, I tend to have bolters fairly useless against power armour unless they strike a joint or score a direct headshot. And even then, a lot depends on the angle. Debris from the impacts shatter and clatter all over the place as the armour is blasted apart over time, but "my" bolters lack the strength penetrate power armour in most conditions. Agreed. S4 vs T4 means a bolt technically has the power to mess a Marine himself up, but AP5 makes it clear that the Bolter simply isn't up to the task of penetrating Power Armour plate. All those 1's and 2's you roll for your 3+ Armor Saves are where the weak AP shots are lucky enough to hit the soft joints in the Power Armor, or spots previously penetrated/weakened by more powerful weapons. Marines are clearly meant to be exploding the heads of aliens all over the place, not fighting other Space Marines. They simply don't have the weapons they need widely available, so they use their good ol' Bolters.

Sooo, looks like that's +1 -1 Battlebarge The Ultramarines sure have a hell of a lot of Battlebarges.

Has someone been adding all the new names since my last compilation????

I get the worrying impression that this list is growing out of control without anyone ever getting around to formatting it... :/

Actually, the fluff was at the very very end of 999.M41 back in 3rd edition Then it got rewound back to BEFORE the 13th Black Crusade in 4th edition Then it progressed very slightly back up to the opening of the 13th Black Crusade in 5th edition And now 6th edition has finally managed to mave back into the early part of the 13th Black Crusade Maybe by 7th edition we will finally catch back up to where we were at the end if the Eye Of Terror Campaign in 3rd edition... Some Black Library books, on the other hand, are actually set in the "present", which is the "future" according to 6th edition. The Ultramarines, for example, have already moved all the way into 012.M42. The Medusa V Campaign was set in 006.M42, and I think that's the only/last time that GW itself has set the game in the "present" since 3rd edition. I"m a big Relictors fan, so I'm pretty annoyed that they've got the Chapter's fate yoyo-ing back and forth between Loyalist an Renegade because they're afraid to advance the timeline. Probably the only thing that has stopped me from making a Relictors army all these years...

Agreed. I just think it's particularly remarkable that a Fallen Angel would remark on how Guilliman in particular had learned incorruptibility, as if all the Primarchs had been tested, but somehow Guilliman came through it remarkably unphased. As if there was maybe a questionable moment for each of the other loyalists and then they shook it off, but Guilliman was tempted and never even blinked. And that he'd be singled out as the true echo of The Emperor's heart and soul kinda indicates to me that Guilliman's own motivations and methods are basically the same as The Emperor's, so being "against" The Emperor would just be counter to his own goals anyways.

I just spent 16 hours at the movies watching an Avengers movies marathon so my brain is kinda fried. and I'm skipping over reading most of the thread. If I'm restating information, sorry. Guilliman was said to be incorruptible. Guilliman was said to be the Primarch who was said to be The Emperor's true echo. Given those, and that they're backed up pretty massively by Know No Fear, I have to assume that Guilliman would never betray the Imperium, and I'm going to have to echo those who've said that Horus would probably still end up being manipulated into being the traitor.

I thought I'd seen ship stats in one of the Deathwatch books....

Bingo. It sounds pretty close to how I say it. Dare I say I utter it this way sometimes, too. :cuss Incidentally, it's also how it's pronounced by Konrad Curze/Night Haunter in "The Dark King" (the Horus Heresy audio short story about the Night Haunter) and by Rogal Dorn in "The Lightning Tower" (the Horus Heresy audio short story about Rogal Dorn).

Bingo.