Lion El Jason

Deathwing Knights are worse than regular terminators if you want a big blob or melee damage. They simply have no role. Similar to the Lion; he just has no use in any list, if he loses on average to a Tactical Squad then what is he for?

I didn't see anything reasonable except Azrael, Deathwing Terminators and Black Knights. The rest is still way overcosted. The problems with the codex can't be fixed with points costs though, they nerfed the models out of usability. There's just no point for them with those rules, regardless of points (Well, any sensible points, I guess they could undercost everything by 50% but they would still be boring and dull).

We need to consider this next to the first Votan Codex. This is at least as badly balanced if not worse. If a few major tournaments would consider keeping the Index legal, GW would listen.

Thanks Mr. Mod, but I expect we're done anyway. There simply isn't enough positivity for this book. We're back at the bottom and have the worst 40k codex since 4th edition. But the models are nice.

At least the box looks good. And only a week late, thanks GW.

No, I said Dark Angels get DARK ANGEL SPECIFIC stuff that then (If its good) is handed out to the other factions AND THEN DA LOSE IT. You have basically only said "Some codexes are released before others". Please understand the discussion before posting again.

I have to agree. I have been drip buying models for years because I had armies that were fine and I didn't need to replace them. 10th hit me hardest and I've had to replace most of my stuff now. I keep all my terminators but 70 bikes, 15 attack bikes, 10 land speeders, 30 sniper scouts, 2 thunderfire cannon and 2 companies of power armour are all going in a case, never to be seen again. I've bought more marines this edition I've used for the last 7. I would not have bought upscaled tactical marines but I need infiltrators. I would have bought a few upscaled bikes but mostly used my old ones. With the primaris, I have no choice. You must buy to play.

The DW and RW Detachments are both quite badly designed in that they are considerably better for things that they are not supposed to be for than their intended focus. Inner Circle will be good with Deathwing Characters leading other units (Non Deathwing) so they get the benefits. Hellblasters will love the detachment rule for example. The mobility from the RW will be very nice for footslogging ground troops. I think some will try our detachment for White Scars but the consensus seems to be that there are two issues with this: 1: The vanilla White Scars Detachment is just better. 2: Outriders, even at 80, are junk and so you wouldn't want 6 of them. Luckily WS canonically don't field bike formations like RW, they are just a much bigger part of their mixed forces. However with the CoH affecting everything maybe it would be better for them?

Now you're just naming rules. I think you've missed the point. None of your examples fit the discussion.

OK... Dante had the Inferno Pistol which was Str 8 and could be used to strike hits in melee. Logan Grimnar and Calgar had power fists at Str 8 Azrael only had Str 6. (He was also the only chapter master with WS7). Maybe I wasn't clear about the HB and AC, I was of course refering to the Landspeeder options. You can check your AoD codex for that.

You are mis remembering some things but its not important. Dark Angels ONLY consistent trait is that literally anything good is taken away and given to everyone else. Dark Angels get the :cuss:ty end of the stick. You know why Deathwing were "Teleport Experts" for a few editions? Because Deepstrike was such a bad idea nobody ever used it. Squadrons of Landspeeder Tornadoes? Originally RW only. Turns out concentrated firepower is good so next edition DA were the only chapter that couldn't do it! Hell even Heavy Bolter and assault cannon options were supposed to be DA unique, but they were too good to not give everyone else. I could go on listing like 20 more things from memory (Str 6 power swords! This was an intentional snub to Azrael in 2nd ed, he was the only chapter master not to get Str 8 in melee, but then in 3rd ed they were actually good, and DA could give them to any character. So by 4th everyone had relic blades and DA no longer could give theirs out.) This is a specifically Dark Angels thing. This is the reason we've been the worst faction in the game for more than half the game's existence and the worst space marines codex in all but 3 editions. Its not my first time dealing with this. You just have to see what floats to the top and see if you can do anything with it. We're codex: Azrael now (Until his points go up...)

Personally I prefer the original colours, only TDA in white, ALL Land Raiders and vehicles in green. I also think white Land Raiders look bad but that is subjective of course.

These bits of lore that differentiate the chapter from vanilla or other divergent chapters are at least as important as the rules that do so. These veterans should have been in the 3-9th companies. Its literally where "Company Champions" came from originally (When they were DA only - I note the one stable Dark Angel tradition of having good stuff removed and given to every other chapter in the game continues as it has since 3rd ed...) Its quite clear they were writing for the "New hotness" fluff and just didn't care if they got the history correct.

I have 150+ Terminators with close to 100 painted. I also have 2 of every combo of combi weapon, Storm Bolter (And no weapon) and force weapon for terminator Librarians and every combo for chaplains with a significant amount of Masters with all kinds or weapons. Plus 23 Land Raiders for them of every type that can transport. I got to play it all once... very much worth it.

Power Armour in the 1st company is already taking a dump in the mouth of anyone who ever wrote good lore before.