striker8

Read the rules. I will write them for you here. Open-topped vehicles do not have specific fire points. Instead, all passengers in an open topped vehicle may fire, measuring range and line of sight from the hull of the vehicle. Open topped vehicles do not have specific access points. Models can embark or disembark within 2" of any part of the vehicle. At no point does the section of open topped rules state embarkation/disembarkation are from the HULL. Specific word. OR define what the hull is. So again. Someones typed something claiming that is what it says, doesn't quote the book, which I have, and from what I can see is writing down the rules how he believes it works. The part refering to the HULL is to do with passengers shooting from the vehicle. By the rules stated, which I have underlined as well as emboldened, they can disembark from 2" of ANY PART OF THE VEHICLE. Again, don't hate me, playing devils advocate, but just trying to show how RAW do not clear this problem up, if anything it points the other direction. I think you need to read all the rules, and I mean everything that applies not just pieces parts. Parsing them like you and others have trying to prove a point without using all is cheating at worse and rules lawyering at best. Read the rules on open topped, on open toped says the firing points and acess points are the whole perimiter of the vehicles hull. You then have to read the vehicle rules where it refers to how to measure to and from a vehicle and what the "hull" is by the rules. THis also applies to how you measure for diembarking but you need to read those rules as well since it references access points which you then have to know what that means in relation to open topped. Trying to use a "2" from any part of the vehicle" quote fails when you apply the rest of the rules that also apply and define the vehicle. See I've read the rules multiple times myself and they're rather clear if you don't try to read into them and realize some parts greatly change other depending upon situation and timing. Have you read all the rules now? Like where it says you ignore things like dozers, decorative bits, wings, etc when measuring? That's in the basic vehicle rules on measuring. The hull is the base body of the vehicle is it not? Again that is in the base vehicle rule. So a door, being as it's not the base body of the vehicle and is for all intents and purposes decorative since if it's closed you can still use it as an access point or firing point then is must not count for measuring or any other things that entails measuments if modeled in some other position. Do you measure from the ramp or the opening at the front of a LR? Do you measure from the ramp or the hole in the rear of a Rhino? Do you mneasure from a modeled open door on the side of a Rhino or LR or do you use the opening in the hull? The answer to all of those is you use the hole by the rules isn't it? So why would a drop pod be different? It's not unless you're trying for some perceived advantage that the rules don't allow. So a pod with doors open mearure from the perimeter of the pentagonal base since be definition that is the best place by the rules you would use to measure same thing applies to having doors closed you use the pentagonal perimeter just the same to measure from I'm not hating on you, to be honest when 5th ed hit and I actually got some pods I initially thought the way you and other have proposed, but being that SM vehicles haven't counted as open topped for a while I sat and read all the rules that apply and quickly found that what I initialy wanted to believed and what was correct were different. How people want things to be and how they actually are come down to knowing ALL the pertinent rules and how they interact not taking using only the parts that give you what you want.

Right on the money. The whole argument comes down to people wanting to get an advantage out of something that doesn;t exist so you either do it one way and take the advantages and disadvantages or doit the the other and take those advantages and disadvantages. You can't have the best of both. So if the doors count for deployment they count for scatter, if their closed you either consider them open so the storm bolter can shoot and they can be seen through or they are close and it can't shoot or be seen through. Pick one or the other!

Actually screw it....just read the rules. Access Points on pg 66 of the small rulebook from AOBR. Each Vehicle capable of carrying passengers will have a number of access points defined in its entry. These are the doors, ramps and hatches that passengers use to get in and out of the vehicle. Models can embark or disembark withing 2" of an access point. Drop pod rules: Fire points and access points: Once deployed the drop pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped. AoBR Rulebook page 70. Open topped vehicles. Open-topped vehicles do not have specific access points. Models can embark or disembark within 2" of any point of the vehicle. Pretty much says that you can deploy from any part of the drop pod. No mention of HULL in any of those rules. Read the rules, open top means any part of the vehicles hull is an access point, and defines what the hull is. Trying to imply that the ends of open doors count way out there.

So if I see just the door of a rhino I cant shot at it because am unable to draw line of sight to the hull [and doors are not hull]? Some might even go so far as to say that you could shoot through those doors, like they try to shoot through the doors on a drop pod. As ussual certain people trying to spin comments for their perverse reasons and I'm not talking about you Grey Mage! A closed door is exactly that it's closed and part of the hull at that point. When it's open though it is not hull any longer and falls into the decorative/extra bits clause in the rules. Besides can you see through a Rhino with an open door? You can't unless the inner door is cut open and I've only seen some one do that once and you still couldn't see all the way through the model door to door and out the other side due to having a marine in the hatch. That's the catch, this whole hoopla is people trying to game the system. Play it one way or the other but do it consistently for the game. None of those pics really prove anything as they aren't deployed models, but a posed shot showcasing a battle force. Then you got cheated : Thank you for covering that for me.

I prefer pods to be open but that's because I think they look better on the table that way and like the visual appeal. I won't blanket refuse playing some one based on pods being glued shut since I know the things can be a pain to assemble but I reserve the right to do so. You can't really see much through a pod being it;s pentagonal with stuff inside so at best trying to shoot through one will give infantry and most vehicles cover save so play them how ever they are either up or down. I know that I try to have all the doors open on mine at landing but there are still times when do to terrain or other models it's just not possible to open all the doors. I usually ask my oponent if they wish to consider them closed or open at that point and follow that the rest of the game. Doors aren't hull and deployed doors are not terrain so no deployment shenanigans or difficult or dangerous terrain test for deployed doors. You just act like they're not there just like you do for any vehicle with a ramp. Trying either of these will get you put in my never play again book. In the end just discuss it pre game with your opponent if you haven't already come to an agreement. It doesn't matter what other people on line think just those you play with.