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Help fighting nercons.


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#1
Silent Requiem

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In my gaming community i have orks, necrons and eldar prominently tbough these days i have been having problems with Necrons mainly. My army build of course is 'yours' , with just a 'little' difference.[Which of course you encouraged with other brother knights.]

My problem is that, is there a way to 'tweak' the water list so i can still handle a 'double-monolith'+'massed-warriors' Necron build without too much changing the overall list.This is my list anyways.

HQ
Grand Master w/ psycannon and 'hammerhand'
Retinue-4 GKT, (1) w/ psycannon.

ELITES
BC w/ Psycannon
4 GKT, (1) w/ Psycannon

Justicar w/ Meltabombs
6 Knights

Justicar w/ Meltabombs
6 Knights

LR w/ Extra armor and smokes

LR w/ Extra armor and smokes, Searchlights.


Hey there SR,

Thanx for ur time, sorry didnt post his list. This is staple-list for his crons'-1750 points

Necron Lord, Warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Veil of Doom-210

10 Warriors-180

10 Warriors-180

10 Immortals-280

3 Destroyers-150

3 Destroyers-150

8 Scarabs w/ Lightning Fields -128

Monoliths'-235

Monolith -235

Well his basic tactics if its escalation(Omega game), he would deepstrike one of his monoliths while the other comes from reserves to give him the second WBB roll, the DS monolith would disrupt /scatter my terminators squad advance. His favourite tactic which is a staple for him is that the scarabs hunt one LR or locking GKTs while the immortals+lord DS w/ veil within 24" and shoot the other LR.

So ie, i have 6 destroyers, scarabs and the lord+Immortals hunting anything w/ Armor Value, the rest of his army 'camps' near his monolith, i cant 'phase out' his army with this style. I tried 'running-thru' straight to his camping-lines but with two ordnance weapons and the named squads above, i ended up giving him a solid victory, hehe

I know running-thru means committing too early and not very water-like, just sometimes i have the urge to know what happens if...but i only did that ONCE . So, there ya have it. His army and his favourite play-style which i think most of crons' playstyle. everyone trying to keep within RO distance or monolith-distance while the rest hunts for anything w/o WBB rulz kekeke

Thanks a bunch SR. looking forward to your help. I just wonder if crons' get FnP rule w/ the new codex would it be harder to kill em?..eheh


Well, that definately looks like a tough list. I rarely play more than 1500, but at 1750 I'd probably run with 3 Raiders, a GM of some kind, 2 squads of PAGK and one squad of GKT.

Here is what I notice about his list:

It's very Earth heavy, but he has some decent mobility in there. His army can take down your Raiders through massed firepower, but you out gear him by miles in assault. Keeping him in assault is tricky around the monoliths. There is also a huge discrepancy between the mobility of his various units. With all his deep strike abilities, he will get the jump on you at some point.

My approach would be as follows:

Keep together! That Lord can pretty much guarentee that he can DS and kill one Raider ONCE! Because then he and his squad get eaten alive by your GM, GKT and PAGK. That leaves you with two Raiders.

Destroy his mobility! Half his army can move up to 24", the other half moves up to 6". Kill the fast part and you can dictatate where and when the fighting happens. We have already discussed the limitations of the Lord, but scarabs are free kills for you. Your psy and las cannons instant kill bases, as do your standard assault attacks.

That leaves the destroyers as a threat. Fortunately the squad sizes are low enough that LOS from even 1 Raider may result in him losing the squad, 2 or more almost guarentees it.

When you look at it this way, you realise that you are actually in an excellent position to destroy his mobile elements, as they are all very frigile (against GK).

Avoid his core! The warriors/immortals and monoliths are as tough as nails, but slow and short ranged. The warriors need to stay within 24" of the 'lith to be teleported IIRC. Once his mobility has been destroyed, simply out range him, taking opportunistic shots at warriors and monoliths.

Kill the Lord! His strategy is based on maximising his WBB rolls, but without the res orb, every single one of your units has some way of negating WBB (some, like GKT, obscenely so). His army becomes alot weaker outiside of 6" from the lord.

Have any of the other GK players on the board got any tips or suggestions for fighting the Yngr?

-Silent Requiem
QUOTE
About my list; it is weak. But it fits me, and that counts for a lot more than any amount of mathammer.


Since 5th edition: 3 wins, no draws, no losses.

#2
Aidoneus

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For your list, I agree with Silent. A third Land Raider would be more useful than that BC unit, and 50-some points cheaper too! Drop that termie squad, get the land raider, and buy yourself another 2 PAGKs. For your third Riader, consider the Land Raider Crusader. I think it would complement the two regular land raiders nicely, and give you some more versatility for your army. Although against this Necron army in particular, I think a third regular Land Raider would probably be more helpful.

He does have a good Necron list, but Silent's tactics are as solid as ever, and I think if you follow his advice you should do all right. I might be able to add a little more advice as well.

Keep your Land Raiders more than 30inches from his Immortals and more than 26inches from his Monolith portals. This is important, because if you come too close, he'll walk walk one squad forward to kill a tank, and Veil another to kill a second tank. The loss of two of your tanks would be devstating. If you can force him to Veil a single squad towards you to kill a Monolith, you'll be able to follow Silent's advice and wipe them off the board with massed firepower and (hopefully) a charge from as many units as possible.

Don't worry too much about Scarabs. Every single warrior in your army insta-kills them, and a lot of your men ignore their saves as well (if not, it's just a 5+). If your Land Raiders are moving slowly, keep some Grey Knights between the Scarabs and the nearest Raider, so you force them to charge men instead of your expensive tanks.

The really important things to concentrate your shooting on are the Destroyers. They have the speed and range to kill your Land Raiders from a distance, and they're powerful anti-infantry as well. They should be the sole focus of your anti-tank weaponry every turn until they're dead!

For Necrons in general, one of the most important things you can remember is to focus-fire and kill entire units at a time. Even if a Necron is allowed a WBB roll, if he isn't within 6" of a live Necron of the same type, he dies outright anyway. This will be especially effective against the Destroyers, as most players like to spread their squads rather than keep them right next to each other. Even against the Warriors, even if his squads are next to each other, any model that isn't within 6" of another model cannot take a WBB roll, so if you kill an entire squad, about half that squad should be far enough away from the live squad to die outright, and neither a Monolith nor a Res Orb can override that!
New Year's Resolution 2007: Keep track of my wins and losses. (note: only 1 vs. 1 games counted)

-Chaos (32/6/7) -Space Marines (3/0/0) -Necrons (4/1/0) -Tyranids (17/2/1) -Inquisition (67/13/13)
Total: (123/22/21) W/L/D


#3
Xander Qruze

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Thanks brother SR, never thought my prob w/ necrons would be in a post ;)

I should keep it in mind to keep my units tight together so they can support each other.Destroying his mobility would mean he has to come to me instead of the other way around. Water-way; you pick your fights/cc not the opponent-keep forgetting this. Though i wonder , is it safe for me to drive up straight to his warriors' lines once both monoliths have been destroyed? or should i stick to 'pruning' till probably turn 4-5 then go in for some close-combat sweetness?
3rd LR, yeah i should try that. More firepower on the table.[not too mention an extra 'limousine']

Thanks Aidoneus for pointing out that the Monolith can teleport the warriors so they can shoot further than 24 inches. TWO LR down in one turn really hurts.(which happened to me twice i think,OUCH!!)

Though i thought his Monolith can always teleport ANY downed necrons regardless whether there are any of same type within 6 inches. Cuz if thats the case than i think i just got duped. Oh well i guess i should tell em to read his codex/4.1 faqs more properly. ;)

Placing my knights in between the incoming scarabs and my LR is one sweet solid tactic hehe, but i was thinking wouldn't that be exposing my PAGKs for 'free-shots' from his units? But i guess its worthwhile having one-three knights down rather than a whole LR blown up on turn TWO eh?. :P

Thanks again brothers Aidoneus and Silent and all that would help me out,sorry to take too much of ya'll time with my necron prob..

Xander Qruze
'...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil...'
Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."

#4
40kdhs

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HQ
Grand Master w/ psycannon and 'hammerhand'
Retinue-4 GKT, (1) w/ psycannon.

ELITES
BC w/ Psycannon
4 GKT, (1) w/ Psycannon

Justicar w/ Meltabombs
6 Knights

Justicar w/ Meltabombs
6 Knights

LR w/ Extra armor and smokes

LR w/ Extra armor and smokes, Searchlights.


Necron Lord, Warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Veil of Doom-210

10 Warriors-180

10 Warriors-180

10 Immortals-280

3 Destroyers-150

3 Destroyers-150

8 Scarabs w/ Lightning Fields -128

Monoliths'-235

Monolith -235


I faced this necron list a few times in the past few months and I won. Before going to tell you how to defeat his list, I need to commend about your GK 'water' army list and please don't feel bad if I 'tear' it apart.

1- It does not matter how many LRs/LRCs you put on the table. They will be destroyed because of necron's weapon which can lance yours on a 6. With a unit of 10 necron warriors, blowing your LR/LRC is not that hard. You simply ask for his forgiveness if you have 2 or 3 LRs/LRCs in your army list.

2- GKPA units are not 'good' against 'this list' because his monolith's BIG blast template can easily destroy your GKPA unit in 1 round of shooting. If i remember it correctly, it is a big blast AP3 template weapon.Furthermore, this monolith will not be destroyed if it scatters on top of you and your opponent can use it to 'teleport' any necron units which are within 18" or 24".

3- When your GKPA units and LRs/LRCs are 'gone', you don't have enough man power to do anything. You basically are finished at this point.

4- Finally, Hammerhand psychic power and melta bomb is useless. Good luck with 2 6s.


With that said, I hope you revisit your list if you want to win.

How to defeat it.?

My favorite way to defeat this list with a pure 'GK' army list is you MUST have 2 psycannons in every GK units and a lot GKTs.

Turn one:

Your opponent:

1- He will DS monoliths.
2- Moving 2 warrior units, 8 scrabs , and 2 destroyer units at full speed.
3- Using destroyer units to shoot at your GK unit.
4- His lord probably is in imortal unit

You:

1- I hope that you deploy your GK units over 30" so that you can take advantage of your shrouding. Your GKPA units are in a nice building which give them 4+ cover save.
2- Reposition your GKT units so that you can utilize all your psycannon shots.
3- If your opponent goes first, reposition your GKT unit can utilize all their attacks when 8 scrabs charge you.
4- Shoot 2x3 destroyer units.

Turn two and three:

Your opponent:

1- DS monolith(s).
2- Scrabs are ready to attack your GK unit.
3- Lord will teleport his imortal unit so that he can shoot you.
4- Shoot your GKT unit with monolith and destroyer units.
5- Lord will teleport back to necron warrior because his immortal unit is killed in CC.
6- Monolith will teleport his warrior unit.
7- He may use his warrior unit to charge your GKT unit who are currently in CC with immortal or scrabs so that he can hopefully teleport any survival unit out of combat next turn.

You:

1- Finish the remain destroyer units. If you have any bullets left, shoot imortal unit.
2- Scrab unit:
a- if he takes first turn, your 8 GKT unit should kill 8 scrabs in 1 round of CC because of your 17 S6 power weapons and their T3. Why.? because of INSTANT skill. Look at TURN 1 You (3).
With a D6 mascre roll, your GKT unit will attack his immotal unit and his lord will be alive and teleport back home.
b- if you take first turn, reposition your GKT units so that they can support each other and get ready to attack 8 scrabs and immortal unit.
3- If he decides to charge 1 of his warrior units to your GKT unit, try to get as many attacks as you against his warrior unit while attacking scrabs.

Turn 4:

Your opponent:

1- DS the last monolith if it is not on the table. Basically, he will have 2 monoliths
2- Warriors unit:
a- 2 warrior units left
b- 1 warrior unit left while another one suffer some casualty.

You:

1- I hope you don't fail a lot of 2+ GKT save ;)
2- If you kill 6 destroyers, 8 srabs and 1 immotal unit and you SHOULD, the victory is on your side.
3- I hope you will finish the remaining warrior units either with shooting or CC.
4- If he does not want engage CC with you, you simply shoot his warrior unit with psycannon and stormbolters.
5- Do not forget to ask him if his necron army suffer 75% cassaulty. If his does, the game is over at this turn.

Turn 5 if there is one

Your opponent:

1- Keep his warrior unit(s) safe.
2- Shoot your GK units with monolith

You:

1-Roll 2+save or cover save for your GK unit.
2-Continue moving and shooting his warrior unit with psycannons and stormbolters.

At this point , he should surrender.


My thought on my GKT list

1- With a lot of S6 power weapon, 'will be back' rule does not apply. Therefore, you effectively kill his unit when you are in CC.
2- With psycanon, you will be able to shoot destroyer from 30" away while using your shrouding.
3- Because your majority save is 2+,his monolith shooting is not really effective.
4- You can use this list against tynid, SoB, ork (with little bit modified). The tactic and strategy are entirely different.

I hope you enjoy.

Do not forget to look for my post #20 in this thread.

Edited by 40kdhs, 10 July 2007 - 06:29 PM.


#5
Xander Qruze

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Thanks 40kdhs, those templates sure are painful especially central hole being AP1. Hope to see the 'second part' of your reply though.

I really dont mind having the list torn either, its why i asked for help about fighting such a necron list in the first place ;) .

At this point any help/criticisms and/or pointers are greatly appreciated.

Thanks brothers' for your help.

Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."
Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."

#6
Aidoneus

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40kdhs is right about the list, but whether or not that's cause to change your list is a different question. You have an excellent all-comers list. If you like Water tactics, or just strategic play in general, that's exactly what you want. It's much less fun to fine-tune your army to each individual opponent you play. This guy's Necrons aren't built to kill Grey Knights, so wouldn't it be that much sweeter if you beat him with your own all-comers list?

Also, 40kdhs tends to be rather 'negative' and his replies are usually in the form of, "You're not 'doing' such-and-such 'right'." That can be helpful sometimes, but oftentimes I get the feeling he'd say that about anything (no offense 40kdhs), because, of course, no person, unit, or list is perfect. So again, while I'm not saying he's wrong about anything (he's not), just take it with a grain of salt, and focus on what you can improve upon more than what's wrong with this or that now.

I'm also interested to hear what you have to say about beating Necrons, 40kdhs. As a Necron player myself, I'm always interested to hear the other side's take on them.
New Year's Resolution 2007: Keep track of my wins and losses. (note: only 1 vs. 1 games counted)

-Chaos (32/6/7) -Space Marines (3/0/0) -Necrons (4/1/0) -Tyranids (17/2/1) -Inquisition (67/13/13)
Total: (123/22/21) W/L/D


#7
Xander Qruze

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No probs Aidoneus, im cool with any opinions that comes. Of course the necron player is a good friend of mine anyways; its always a blast to play with him. Not all points made should be listened to without taken into consideration BUT 40kdhs is right on some points, namely the Gauss and the number of Armors i have in my list. They just 'melt' through any armor they can find! :sweat:

Though they STILL count in a different manner altogether,ie> he wants my AV 14s down, and i want his AV 14s down, but luckily for me he can't>

1-Kill/Handle anything with armour save 2+ quite well. Especially not if there are 2 Squads of GKTs. Even w/ AP1 on the central hole i still got 5+ invul.

2-DS both his monos'(just one probably) for the 'scatter-effect' on mt troops cause i'd be deploying my units close to each other at the most corners of the table.

3-His Monos' can't kill anything beyond 30 inches w/o the probability of scattering(on DS and Ordnance)

So its a gamble for both of us if you ask me. He can't get too close but those yummy VPs from blowing-up LRs is too tempting some times. :) and I can't commit too early in the game for assault either. Sometimes you have to lose a unit or two to gain back some VPs anyway but i'd rather pick my fights/fire-fights where AND when i want them.

By the way, im not only looking for ideas on how to tear/alter my list. I am also more keen on knowing more tactics/strategies that i can use.

Fine tuning my list just to take on his cron' army would be too much(not too mention repetitive and boring), you're right on that matter especially just playing for kicks with pals but of course it don't hurt to tune the list i have for tourneys either :D

So all in all I still believe im just the 'tradionalist' when playing 40k/WHF. I just like anything in 'pairs'. Hence the 2 suads of GKTs, 2 LRs, etc. When i field a particular unit and if it fulfills its designated task(s) then im happy, If they fail(killed or destroyed), I have another of the same type of unit to finish up what its 'partner' unit(s) failed to achieve.

And as much as i like playing water-tactics i think im a slow learner on playing the 'proper' water-way,i've had successes but i still make mistakes. -_- As I've said im still the 'traditionalist' of a gamer so it kinda reflects my play-style and my list above. So expect to see the same units still in my list albeit a little funkyness added to it thanks to you guys' ideas.

I'll be posting my 'redefined' list here but not anytime soon , my woman would kill me if i miss out on her brothers' wedding tomorrow so sadly i can't play-test any lists/tactics yet ;) Sorry if thats off topic im sure some gamers have had the same problems :whoops:

Thanks again brothers, hope to see more on this thread. :P

Xander Qruze

'...I am your Angel, but i was born a Devil...'
Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."

#8
number6

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Playing Necrons with an army list that relies on just a few heavy armoured assets might be the most difficult task you can set for yourself. Silent and Aidoneus bring up excellent points about the strengths of your Necron opponent, and it also sounds like your Necron opponent is a canny player who knows how to exploit what's he's got. If you're going to keep 2-3 land raiders and multiple GKT squads, you've got your work cut out for you. Your challenge will be lessened if you switch to an all -- or nearly all -- infantry list. Honestly, the PAGK-heavy GK list is extremely well-suited to defeating Necrons. (Necrons are the one opponent I have never lost or drawn a game with. All victories, all phase-outs.) GKs can both outshoot and out-assault Necrons.

The only true threat that Necrons bring to the table are destroyers. They're fast, they're tough, and if left alone for too long, they'll simply light you up for more losses than you may be able to recover from. Monoliths are nasty and very destructive, but keep in mind that when 'cron players use Monoliths, they are shorting themselves of actual "necron" models, which makes phase-out easier for you to obtain.

And that's the key. When playing Necrons -- and this is the only opponent where I think this is true -- always ignore any game objectives. Your one and only aim is phase-out. Always play like it's a seek-and-destroy mission, only you should concentrate all efforts on only the "necron" portion of your enemy. For your specific opponent, this means that you only have to kill 28 models and he loses the game. Even with your heavy reliance on land raiders and his potent use of Monoliths, this should be possible more times than not.

Because you have so few models in your army, you won't be able to outshoot your opponent like an infantry-based GK list would be able to. This means that you need to close into assault ASAP. Only in assault can you prevent gauss fire from taking out your raiders and killing your few remaining infantry. Were it me, I'd use my raiders to target and eliminate the destroyers ASAP. I'd footslog all your infantry. You may not have much, but four mobile psycannons and 18 stormbolters is still pretty considerable. I might consider pairing up a GKT squad with a PAGK squad and running two such "units", both of them with the aim to light up Necron warriors and close into assault with them.

Make your opponent have to choose between blowing up a land raider or losing an entire squad of warriors or immortals to GK shooting/assaulting. Make him fear phase-out from turn 1. The earlier you remove the destroyers, the more defensive your opponent will have to play, which suits your game just fine. The 'liths are deadly, but I think to have the best chance of winning, you need to simply ignore them and focus all effort on killing Necrons. Even with a res orb and two monoliths, there are only so many WBB rolls that can be made. Defeating 'crons is all about volume of wounds. Inflict as many as you can, as fast and as often as you can, obviously take out entire squads at once whenever possible, and even WBB won't help. I wouldn't even worry too much about the Lord. Warriors and Immortals -- even Destroyers -- are easier to kill. Take out both warrior squads and the destroyers, and just two immortals, and the game is yours.

Good luck! Report back with results, if you can.

Edited by number6, 09 July 2007 - 02:17 PM.

RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

#9
Xander Qruze

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Thanks number6, actually been waiting for your response too. Ignoring objectives is pretty sweet but any1 putting liths' are only putting them in for the psychological effect. Objectives does tend to make me think too much whether i just phase-out his army or go for the loot counters,centre table,etc.,.. so ignoring them altogether and focusing on causing more casualties on his side would definitely make him play defensive. I may even cause him to forget his own objectives/plans too. :rolleyes:

Im hoping i could give out a batrep soon, time constraints are a bugger. Thank you brothers' for your support. Hopefully this weekend i can post my report here. Or should i post my batrep somewhere else more approriate in B&C?

Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."
Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."

#10
the jeske

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tanks? your realy want him to play tanks against necron .With all those gauss weapons and teleportation . The riders kill a rider in one turn all by themselfs . A second is going to go down to the veiling lord and some squad [rapide fire or imortals] . And even if he counter charges this units , they are still going to WBB with the monolith . I played a list like this a lot [only I used 15 destroyers and fewer or no imortals ] . Tanks are totaly not the way to go against an army like this . You need mass shoting [naked GK with SB are very good at that] , the more bodies you take the better the chance is that one of your units is going to make it in to HtH . I would not take terminators , they die to mass fire to fast . I would rather take as many GK as I can . I would even deep strike a squad or two just to make it harder for him to move .

"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."


#11
Aidoneus

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Let's examine this, shall we. If the lord Veils with a squad of 10 Necrons (immortals or warriors, doesn't matter which) within range of a Land Raider, what are the odds he'll hurt it?

20 shots
6.67 hits
1.11 glances

Out of a single glancing hit, a Land Raider with Extra Armoru (a must-have) will all but ignore 3 results (gotta love Machine Spirit), will still be able to shoot at full effectiveness from 1 result, will be able to move and shoot with 67% effectivness from one result, and will die to one result. Essentially, you don't care about 5 of the 6 results. So with an average of one glancing hit per turn, it will take him about an entire game to kill one of your Land Raiders.

Now granted, he can focus-fire more than one unit on a Land Raider to improve his odds, but he'll never have great odds. He doesn't have any Heavy Destroyers, or squads of 20 Warriors, both of which would really make me nervous with my tanks. And at the same time he's focus-firing, you'll be killing his stuff, so he won't be shooting with full effectiveness.


Let's also look at out chances in CC. Yes, you'll kill a fair number of Necrons on the charge, but unless you Sweeping Advance them to death, you almost certainly won't wipe out an entire unit. And since you only have the one power weapon per squad, he'll recover almost half of his casualties from WBB rolls. Then, all he has to do is use one of his three methods of teleporting his Necron squad out from CC (two of which give him more WBB rolls), and your squad will suddenly be out in the open, right in the middle of his army. His subsequent shooting phase will hurt, a LOT!

Honestly, if you can shoot down those Heavy Destroyers early on, I think you'll win a firefight with Necrons. Just keep forcing him to roll Shrouding, and keep focus-firing on individual Necron squads, and trust your great number of shots each turn. If you have cover to hide behind, you could advance with the hopes of finishing damaged Necron units off in CC, but I wouldn't rely on that as your primary goal for killing his whole army.

Edited by Aidoneus, 09 July 2007 - 05:06 PM.

New Year's Resolution 2007: Keep track of my wins and losses. (note: only 1 vs. 1 games counted)

-Chaos (32/6/7) -Space Marines (3/0/0) -Necrons (4/1/0) -Tyranids (17/2/1) -Inquisition (67/13/13)
Total: (123/22/21) W/L/D


#12
number6

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20 shots
6.67 hits
1.11 glances

I think you got it reversed. At BS 4, that's 6.67 misses, and 13.33 hits. 2.22 glances per full-squad salvo.

Out of a single glancing hit, a Land Raider with Extra Armoru (a must-have) will all but ignore 3 results (gotta love Machine Spirit), will still be able to shoot at full effectiveness from 1 result, will be able to move and shoot with 67% effectivness from one result, and will die to one result. Essentially, you don't care about 5 of the 6 results. So with an average of one glancing hit per turn, it will take him about an entire game to kill one of your Land Raiders.

I think the results are a little more severe that that. The best result from a glancing hit is that it means you can only shoot one weapon with the machine spirit, which is a significant sacrifice considering your investment in the raider. I would agree that losing your first weapon isn't necessarily a big deal, but losing any more than that is a big problem. Getting immobilized is nearly as bad as getting destroyed, since you can no longer use the tank as mobile terrain nor reorient your weapons systems.

Essentially, think about a necron squad firing at your raider as resulting in the reverse of the Eldar vehicle upgrades. Your opponent gets to roll two dice and keep the best. (Actually, he gets to keep both, but you see what I mean.)

I'm not saying that raiders can't be used intelligently and effectively against Necrons. But I do maintain that a raider-heavy GK force is far from the optimal GK army you could take to that fight.

Let's also look at out chances in CC. Yes, you'll kill a fair number of Necrons on the charge, but unless you Sweeping Advance them to death, you almost certainly won't wipe out an entire unit. And since you only have the one power weapon per squad, he'll recover almost half of his casualties from WBB rolls. Then, all he has to do is use one of his three methods of teleporting his Necron squad out from CC (two of which give him more WBB rolls), and your squad will suddenly be out in the open, right in the middle of his army. His subsequent shooting phase will hurt, a LOT!

Honestly, if you can shoot down those Heavy Destroyers early on, I think you'll win a firefight with Necrons. Just keep forcing him to roll Shrouding, and keep focus-firing on individual Necron squads, and trust your great number of shots each turn. If you have cover to hide behind, you could advance with the hopes of finishing damaged Necron units off in CC, but I wouldn't rely on that as your primary goal for killing his whole army.

Definitely, it's the teleporting that's the issue. All I know is that assault is where I consistently beat Necron opponents. Even if they have a 'lith (or 'liths) and a Lord with VoD, GKs do significantly more damage to 'crons in CC than they do shooting. The 'crons can TP regardless, so if you remain at range, you're essentially letting them pick when and where they get to line their shots up. There's nothing stopping them from TPing to rapid fire range at any time and at any location they want, so I think you might as well do the best you can to engage them in assault. With a squad of 10 GKs, having 21 S6 attacks in assault -- 3 of them from power weapons -- is infinitely superior to having 20 S4 attacks at range. If they TP into rapid-fire range, fire right back and charge in with everything you have, killing the squad outright.

Besides, if you can manage to stay in assault for even one round, you can't get shot yourself. 'Crons have far fewer melee attacks than ranged attacks, and that's where your infantry models will be safest. Ideally, you'll destroy the destroyers and have a good lead on killing off the rest of the army's necron models. If you're really lucky, your GKs will be doing so well at range and in CC that your raiders can actually harass the 'liths directly. But if that's not possible, I like keeping the 'cron player's use of 'liths to purely defensive, WBB-saving, purposes.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

#13
40kdhs

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Xander Qruze,

Look at my "how to defeat " in this thread because I updated it. I hope it help.

good luck.

#14
Charred Heretic

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A word from a Witch Hunter Ally for what it's worth.

When my WH army plays Necrons, I take 1-2 squads of GKs, and I don't lose.
Lith or no Lith. Either way, I get him.
Why?
My GKs often arrive late from reserve, so they can pick on a Necron Squad that's too far away to be helped.
The GKs pound the Necron squad into the sand. Remember there are 2 Close Combats per game turn, so two turns should do it. He lose one scoring unit off the board, and you gain one.

The large quantity of bodies from the sisters really helps at "herding" the Necrons to where I need them.
In some cases, that means hiding and drawing the Necrons in to get LOS, or it might mean keeping him on his half of the board.

The Necron player has such a focus upon shooting (remember the golden rule, "when Necrons aren't shooting, Necrons aren't winning"), that you can make it very hard for him to position himself for whatever victory conditions there are.

Attacking his ability to position himself properly is a very subtle thing to do.
It will be hard for him to even recognize that you are doing this, let alone do anything about it.

I have no problem losing 110 points worth of sisters to woo him into thinking that he's winning.
I have no problem setting up a picket line of sisters that he daren't not get into charge range.
I can afford to be outshot for a few turns for a greater purpose.

You really only need about 8 well-placed GKs to win.
But I take two GK squads just for assurance. But it could be done with one.
It's quite easy when you have a lot of ablative wounds in power armor.
Good that war is so ugly, lest we start to become fond of it.
-General Lee

#15
InquisitorPhred

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My Golden rule for playing against necrons is USE MY 2 INCHES. Destroyers are going to get a bead on you whereever you hide. Monoliths are going to deep strike and drop pie plates no matter what you do. It's amazing how much teleport space even a normal sized squad can deny by using the full coherency distance, and pie plates are so much 'haha you paid 235 for that?'when they only cover one model and two partials.

To try to teleport against properly spaced squads he has to either take a serious risk of totally losing the unit, or start so far away it's likely only a couple models will be in rapid fire range anyway.

#16
Aidoneus

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20 shots
6.67 hits
1.11 glances

I think you got it reversed. At BS 4, that's 6.67 misses, and 13.33 hits. 2.22 glances per full-squad salvo.

Doh! :confused: I thought that sounded too go to be true. But still, my point is that tanks don't automatically die vs. Necrons (at least, not against a list like his), so they're not a complete waste. And there are tactics to protect tanks too, like surrounding them with other models and/or board edges to make it very hard (or very risky) for him to teleport right up next to the tank. Little things like that can win battles.

I do agree that a full-out PAGK swarm works better against Necrons (with a couple GKT squads in there too, even better). But I'm trying to look at things from the angle of using the army list we've already got, and winning with clever tactics. I'm not saying that's the only way to tackle the problem, but it's the way I'm most interested in.

I do also agree that, generally, it's best to assault Necrons. They're absolutely terrible in CC, especially when the fail Ld checks and try to flee on I2 (I've lost nearly-whole squads of 16 or 17 warriors, plus lords, like that multiple times. To IG. It's not fun). I'm just really concerned about him teleporting out.

If you do assault an army like this, do it with GKTs. Run both Raiders forward as fast as possible, hope they don't get blown up on the way in (a bit of luck is needed here), unload two squads of GKTs into his lines, and run amok. He shouldn't be able to shoot down 2 GKT squads, and the 'Liths won't help with WBBs (and he only has the one Res Orb). Plus, if you keep the 'Liths busy 'porting two squads of Necrons out of CC at a time, they can't shoot templates, and they can't really make use of their ability to allow WBB re-rolls. So while the GKTs munch through his lines, you keep shooting other squads with the Raiders and PAGKs. It's a much more risky plan than mine, but potentially a lot more damaging, if it works.
New Year's Resolution 2007: Keep track of my wins and losses. (note: only 1 vs. 1 games counted)

-Chaos (32/6/7) -Space Marines (3/0/0) -Necrons (4/1/0) -Tyranids (17/2/1) -Inquisition (67/13/13)
Total: (123/22/21) W/L/D


#17
Silent Requiem

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@ Aidoneus: I think you'll find that you initial calculations are correct if the 10 necrons are outside rapid fire range.

@ 40kdhs: I can't seem to find the thread you are talking about. Would you mind linking to it?

-Silent Requiem
QUOTE
About my list; it is weak. But it fits me, and that counts for a lot more than any amount of mathammer.


Since 5th edition: 3 wins, no draws, no losses.

#18
Aidoneus

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@ Aidoneus: I think you'll find that you initial calculations are correct if the 10 necrons are outside rapid fire range.

Nah, I just messed up my math. I did say 20 shots, after all. :wub:

@ 40kdhs: I can't seem to find the thread you are talking about. Would you mind linking to it?

He was referring to his post earlier in this thread: post #4, to be precise.
New Year's Resolution 2007: Keep track of my wins and losses. (note: only 1 vs. 1 games counted)

-Chaos (32/6/7) -Space Marines (3/0/0) -Necrons (4/1/0) -Tyranids (17/2/1) -Inquisition (67/13/13)
Total: (123/22/21) W/L/D


#19
number6

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If you do assault an army like this, do it with GKTs. Run both Raiders forward as fast as possible, hope they don't get blown up on the way in (a bit of luck is needed here), unload two squads of GKTs into his lines, and run amok. He shouldn't be able to shoot down 2 GKT squads, and the 'Liths won't help with WBBs (and he only has the one Res Orb). Plus, if you keep the 'Liths busy 'porting two squads of Necrons out of CC at a time, they can't shoot templates, and they can't really make use of their ability to allow WBB re-rolls. So while the GKTs munch through his lines, you keep shooting other squads with the Raiders and PAGKs. It's a much more risky plan than mine, but potentially a lot more damaging, if it works.

Excellent description of the kind of tactics I was imagining for keeping monoliths on the "defensive" and essentially useless. The idea is to be so deadly (especially in CC) that the 'lith can't even consider shooting at you because it's working overtime to prevent phase-out. Make your opponent wish he'd never taken the monolith to begin with. (Were I to play 'crons, I know I'd never ever take it!) You can't be too aggressive against 'crons; at least, not in my experience.

@Charred Heretic: I like your style. :tu:
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014

#20
40kdhs

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post #4


Other fine points that I would like to add to my post #4 in this thread is if your necron player is reluctant to teleport his necron units within 12" away from your GKT unit, your next shooting target is immortal unit if 2x3 destroyer units are killed and there is no scrabs unit near by.

if a necron warrior unit shoots your GK unit, you should be in range of charging. Therefore, shooting at this unit may not be a good idea because you can't assault. Keep this in mind.

If a immortal or any necron warrior unit is 18" away from you, your good bet of getting close to these units is his scrabs unit. Therefore, it is imperative that you do not want to kill scrab unit in 1 round of CC in order to get an extra D6 movement in your turn. This should not be difficult for you because scrab unit is 'mindless' which is 'fearless'.

The game may not end in turn 4 or 5 if he doesn't want his units to be close to yours. All you have to do for the rest of the game is move and shoot stormbolters and psycannons at his warrior unit and keep doing it until he phases out after killing destroyer units, immortal unit, and scrab unit.

Of course, do not forget to keep each GK model 2" away from each other so that his blast template only covers a 'few'.

I feel like I give you a complete picture of the battle field and your opponent plan. Good luck.

#21
40kdhs

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should i post my batrep in B&C?


absolutely. Do not forget to take some pictures of your battle.

#22
Xander Qruze

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Hey guys, sorry for the late post/reply. Been hectic in the 'real-world' lately. So here goes.

Just finished a game w/ my necron friend today. Bad news is we had to rush the game and a friend thats supposed to come w/ the camera didn't arrive for our game at all.So the best i can do is give you guys is a not-so-full batrep, [due to lack of picts] of the game to the best of my ability

Terribly sorry for this, I know i owe you guys a LOT more than just hi-lights (an actual proper, Pict-Batrep i mean) So again, my apologies. :(

I wish to thank ALL brother knights for ALL the shared wisdom, tactics and experiences. From anything to everything that i have absorbed from this thread/B&C alone and put it all into actual game-play today. I cannot thank all of you enough.

Necron-List <not exactly what I predicted but still his 'staple-list'>

Necron Lord, Solar Pulse, Res Orb, Staff of Light.

11 Warriors-W1

11 Warriors-W2

10 Immortals-IMT

5 Destroyers-Ds

3 Heavy Destroyers-HeavyDs

2 Monoliths-Mono1, Mono2

[Any1 doing the math on this list, Yes i Know, his points are over by 11 pts-1761...but he's halfway to OZ now so my Lascannon wont reach him. <_<

HQ
Grand Master w/ psycannon and 'hammerhand'-GKT1
Retinue-4 GKT, (1) w/ psycannon.

ELITES
BC w/ Psycannon-GKT2
4 GKT, (1) w/ Psycannon

Justicar w/ Meltabombs-PK1
6 Knights

Justicar w/ Meltabombs-PK2
6 Knights

LR w/ Extra armor and smokes-LR1

LR w/ Extra armor and smokes, Searchlights.-LR2

Dread w/ TLAC, ML, Smokes & Searchlights.

Mission: RECON, OMEGA. 1st Turn Night-Fighting. I won the roll off, and opt to go 1st.

Escalated> 2 Mono, 5 Destroyers, 3 Heavy Destroyers. 2 LRs, 1 GK-Walker.

Terrain-placing> Probably it was heavy with Size 3 area-terrains, especially my deployment edge which is to the far left, he won the table deployment roll. Imagine an 'S' formed along the whole table with the tip of the S being prominently filled with Size 3s. We took turns putting the terrains on board.

Deployment>This is where I made my dumbest ever mistake in my 40k life. I clumped both PAGKs AND both GKTs on the far-left edge.Both GKTs squad deployed side-by-side, same goes for PAGKs which are right behind the GKTs.

Necrons deployed 'V' formation with Immortals(IMT) right behind both Warriors(W1 on my left side & W2 on the right) which are deployed in front of IMTs. Lord joins W1 squad. All within the center of his long table edge.


GK 1st TURN

Both GKTs squad deployed side-by-side, same goes for PAGKs running along behind each GKTs. All deployed to my far-left corner of the long table edge.
Moved up GKT,and both PAGKs units forwards behind SIZE 3 area terrain[2x of such size in this quarter]. GKT1 peeked around the said area-terrain for 'pot-shots' at his most forward warriors(W1 w/ Lord joined in) One warrior down from Psycannon, got lucky with my Night-Fight roll. When I ended my turn, I realized this game will end way too fast. Read on and you'll know what I mean.

Necron 1st TURN

Failed his WB. Moved all units straight forwards, Size 3 completely covering all W1,W2 and IMT squads from PAGKs and GKTs LOS. He ended his turn.

GK 2nd TURN

Rolled for Escalation, LR1 and my Walker enters the table which i deploy at the same far-left corner near the infantry. Due to my 'genius' deployment though, i bottle-necked my self. All 4 infantry squads had problem finding targets except for GKT1. So i moved PK2 moved backwards and embarked into LR1, and drove it forwards 6 inches due to the fact my own knights blocking my LRs path. Walker moved forward to assist GKT2 and PK1. GKT1 made another shot and killed one warrior from W1.

Necrons 2nd TURN

Not having any good WBBs, he rolls for reserves but only one Monolith(Mono1) and the HeavyDs entered. Deep-Striking his Mono exactly into the centre of my long table edge, which is also in front of his advancing infantry.[Didnt scatter], HeavyDs deployed right in front of GKT1. He ''ported W1 w/ the joined lord, and walked them into my table edge. IMT and W2 creeped behind the Size 3, but difficult terrain in the centre table(bomb-crater terrain, almost ordnance size ) slowed his advance. IMT took shots at GKT1 but failed to kill any, almost rolled triple-ones for shrouding!! Anyways i got lucky because HeavyDs lined up shots on GKT1 but missed all shots miserably.

GK 3rd TURN

LR2 comes in, and instead of seeing the obvious 'New-York-rush-Hour' traffic jam before me, i AGAIN put another big fat vehicle into the same far-left
corner of the table for fear of the W1 and Mono1 in my centre table edge. Moved up GKT1, GKT2 thru size 2 terrains, and PK1 joined up from behind. Walker moved forward, lining up a shot at Monolith in my centre table edge. LR1 trailed behind infantry.LR2 remained stationary from corner table. My Walker managed to stun the Mono1 w/ ML but it took all LR1,LR2,GKT1,GKT2 and PK1 just to kill 3 HeavyDs. Snake-Eyes even with Twin-Linked, go figure..

Necron 3rd TURN

No Destroyers arrived, but Mono2 arrived. Deep-Strike right in front of the advancing GKT1 and GKT2 blocking my advance, even so close to table edge he did it(mere 8 inches from falling the table!) and it landed on spot. He rushed IMT and W2 towards GKT1, GKT2 and PK1. Mono1 moved towards the same squads. Sweet shooting phase for him. IMT managed to kill 3 guys from GKT2, while pie-plate from Mono1 managed to kill 2 from PK1. W1(tht just got ported) also moved towards PK1 and rapid fired but failed to cause wounds on PK1.

GK 4th TURN

LR2 which remained stationary fired its lascannons and managed to destroy Mono2 which was blocking the path of GKT1 & GKT2. PK1(left 5 man afer the pie-plate)and GKT2 moved back and ran towards Mono1(Mono1 now sandwhiched' in between by PK1,GKT2 and W1). LR1 moved 12" around terrain back to my own table edge and disembarked PK2 near W1. GKT1 advances towards enemy table edge but needed to maneuver around wrecked Mono and terrain. GKT2, PK1 and PK2 took shots and managed to kill 5 warriors from W1. Passed its morale check. Necron Lord stayed in this unit since turn one.

Necron 4th TURN

Failed all but 1 WBB, W1 now 5 man strong. Destroyers(Ds) arrives and advanced towards GKT1 ,their guns killed 2 knights from my Grand Masters' retinue. Mono1 tank-shocks GKT2, pushing GKT2 and PK1 back.Then teleported IMT to line up shots at the 'tank-shocked' knights. W2 runs towards my table edge. Lord leaves W1 moving towards PK2. W1 shooting did nothing but the Lords' Staff of Light killed 3 men from PK2. IMT emptied their magazine at the remaining 5 men from PK1 and completely devastated the knights. After Tank-shocking, Mono1 shoots its ordnance at LR1 but didn't have any effect. Ends his turn.

GK 5th TURN
GKT1 rolled snake-eyes for difficult terrain, and still lingers around monolith-debris. GKT2 tired of tank-shock happy time decides to cross blades w/ the Destroyers hovering above some terrain and managed to kill 2 and but they passed its morale check. PK2 (now 4 man left) runs towards W1, killed 4 warriors in assault phase with W1 but they passed morale check. LR2 backs up 6" and fires at the Lord, which is now detached from W1 AND the closest target. It took 1 wound from the lascannon. LR1 not being able to draw any LOS moved forwards 12" and popped its smokes. though i dont know why i did that.

Necron 5th TURN
Necron Lord decides to join the combat with PK2 but failed to hit any of the knights while they completely decimated all warriors from W1.The Lord passed his check. IMT now blocked by their own Mono1 moved away from the portal door. Giving way to 3 Destroyers, únlocking' them from combat w/ GKT2. the Ds moved towards LR2 which wounded the Lord last turn, but didn't manage to scratch it. W2 walked up around another Size 3 terrain before them, but only 4 has LOS to LR2, but still no scratch after shooting it.

GK/Necron 6th TURN [No Extra turns came up..]
Much of the same here. GKT1 again rolling 3 inches moving thru the terrain, GKT2 moved towards enemy table edge moved 2 inches into terrain.[Lazy buggers...] LR1 moved again forwards trying to reach enemy table edge to no avail. LR2 moved back and fired shots at W2 but only caused one casualty. PK2 in full-swash-buckling action with the Lord failed to wound, and the Lord on the other hand can't seem to hit anything w/ WS4.

Mono1 pie-plates' LR1 again but even w/ 2d6 pen, couldn't do anything to it. IMT and W2 still couldn't draw a bead to any vehicles, while the Walker was too far to reach with their guns. Destroyers tried again their guns at LR2, nope..nothing happens...first time all my vehicles survived a game.

Please keep in mind these criterias before anyone decides to barrage/kung-fu/rend/shoryu-ken or Chuck Norris/Jet-Li on my bum:-
1> This is my first BATREP EVER. I never meant it to be without pictures, or even to be in summary-type writing. Due to constraints in the 'real-world' I am unable to produce master-pieces like B&C/WD has.(i.e-with all the bling-2, fluff such as sergeants shouting[narrates] orders to their subordinates as they ran through ruined-buildings..etc.)
2> I owe a lot of people this report/battle summary. At least you know some of the details of what happened.
3> I understand if this whole post gets minced up faster than an IG sentry can shout "Lictors?..What Licte..erkkkkhhhh...". due to lack of info and/or novel-qualities.
4> Again. I apologize for the over-simplicity of this 'batrep'.
5>Yes, there are some details left out. My friend told me he pie-plated each LR at least twice, though i don't see it in my notes. Maybe my hand-writting is really that bad. :sweat:
6> MOST Importantly, I know I screwed up A LOT!! But please tell me 'again' where my mistakes lie. I do not wish to prolong this post so any feedback is really, really needed/appreciated. I really mean ANY feedback. Heck, send me a hate-mail it don't matter... :huh:

Conclusion> DRAW.

My Land Raiders not blowing up/immobilized and that ONE wound i caused on his Lord also did the job though i never expected it to tip the points back a bit to me. I know its not much of an enjoyable read, but its the only outcome i could muster at this time after all I've learned from this. Im late for work now, gotta go before 'the-man' kills man.

Disclaimer: No Necrons/GK miniatures, may it be pewter or resin were harmed in the making of this low-budget psycho-pulp-fiction so-called batrep. Though many dices were, more than one way or another brutally thrown into the army-box/wall and bounced back to their owners' respective, (if not dumb) heads.

Your most benevolent humble knight,

Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."

Edited by Xander Qruze, 14 July 2007 - 10:31 PM.

Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."

#23
Silent Requiem

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Don't beat yourself up about your batrep... I thought it was pretty discriptive, and narrative is not everyone's cup of tea anyway.

What I would like to see is a tactical breakdown of the battle. You know, what worked, what didn't, what you would try instead. Let us know what you were trying to do, as well as what actually happened.

Overall, from what you were saying earlier, your pulling a draw against this guy was actually an improvement. What, if any, of our advice helped, and what advice of your own would you pass on.

-Silent Requiem

Edited by Silent Requiem, 15 July 2007 - 05:17 AM.

QUOTE
About my list; it is weak. But it fits me, and that counts for a lot more than any amount of mathammer.


Since 5th edition: 3 wins, no draws, no losses.

#24
40kdhs

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Xander Qruze,

1-Considered your lost in previous games, it's not bad at all.
2-It's not required to have pictures in the battle report but they are good to have so that people like me can point out your mistakes. 'Visualization' is everything.
3-As long as you know where you were wrong, it's a good thing. You will 'never loose' if you learn something from each game.
4-About 'criticism', I haven't played and used GK 'water' army list. Therefore, i'll let your 'water' experts to point out your mistakes because we come from 'different styles' and I don't know if my 'advises' can help you improve your 'water' playing skills.

good luck.

Wargear items: You should NOT have melta bombs and hammerhand in your list because they are pretty much useless against this army.

Edited by 40kdhs, 15 July 2007 - 06:31 PM.


#25
Xander Qruze

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Mornin' fellow brothers' of Titan,

Here I'll try to make a tactical breakdown and of what actions i employed worked for me and what didn't quite get the impact i hoped for on the necron.

Oh and 40kdhs, you are so right....damn bombs and hammerhand never gets to see any use at all, the fact that i was too busy dishing out storm bolter shots at anything with WBB rule i never get to have the chance. So without delay here goes.

1- Since that I know I should've been giving my enemy all the 'storm-bolter' shots that they deserve, deploying your units on the table that has waaay too many terrains that not only constrict movement but also blocks too many 'firing-lanes' is equally counter-productive as is having denying LOS to your own squads from enemy fire but, your units in turn with their storm-bolters'/guns becomes very useless. Since that GKs are almost always outnumbered one must whittle down the enemy till its the right moment for that crucial assault.

2- Having PAGKs and GKTs(or any shooty infantry) deployed together in tight-block formations close to one another are a scary tactical deployment that forces your enemy to deal with each squad one by one, either by shooting them or assaulting.They are forced into a mindset of 'great, counter-charge tactic' and/or 'sheesh, how many bolter rounds am i eating inside that 24" radius". HOWEVER, having them deployed in such a manner please keep this in mind. DO NOT deploy them together in such a way that you KNOW you won't have enough breathing room for your units to move unhindered by one another. Because unless your vehicles or our knights have jump packs it WILL be cramped. Make sure you have ample space for your units to support each other while still being mobile at the same time.

3- Terrains are your friend, wysiwyg,area they all should be ones' best friend. Though on the other hand not being able to move within a confinement of terrains no matter which way you move will hinder your chances to get into grips with the necrons which one way or the other you MUST.

4 - Ignoring the Liths' did work, though it took awhile to 'kick-in' in my humble opinion. Necron players rejoice at this tactic but my necron friend noticed on his turn 5 that he is losing some necrons fast(though not that many, he is still weary of the low body count). It DOES stop him from using his pie-plates but only if he notices the change in his army=lesser necrons with WBB. Sweet part is, if u can focus fire w/ all your squads at; one necron unit at a time(not in my case though, no proper firing lanes) he will eventually be on his toe and start using his portals' instead of his ordnance.

5- Grand Master- I love this guy, maybe way too much. I agree with most brothers on this matter. i didn't get a chance at CC whatsoever when i used him, the fact that when your enemy knows he is carrying a S6 4 atks force weapon, every necron ran away from this guy like a plague. Definitely gonna drop him from now on. In 2000 pts game, maybe...just maybe. Though in this batrep, because of him and his retinue's VPs it DID gain me a draw. But having paid for a unit to tear units apart in CC, i feel they only did 2 of 3 roles i had them for. 1> CC unit, 2> Mobile-firebase team and 3>Scoring Unit.

6- I played 7 knights(1 justicar+6knights) almost all my life, but i know now; having 8 of these guys in one squad would be more devastating in my opinion. You guys really did the math on this one. Whether I would play water-like or not, if not I'd try having 3 squads, 7 knights in each. Though thats a different list im working on, whether I can still be adaptable/water-like with it or not depends. I find that more storm-bolters is equally devastating as having dreadnought[s]thrown at your enemy.

7- Land Raiders/LRC and/or Chimeras/Shooty-Dreadnoughts[No DCCW] They should NEVER 'remain-stationary' way too long in a game. This is one trick i have yet perfected in my games(still not adaptive enough), my indecisiveness [since my turn 3, all arrived from reserves] w/ these behemoths are what cost me the game,..or dare i say a win. Had i not been too 'scared' of the warriors in the centre table or how many dangerous terrain tests i have to make, i could've still moved at least one Dread and one LR to his table edge for scoring VPs. AND still be able to deny some of his units entering my table edge by shooting, instead i tried to score VPs by shooting from my own deployment zone which was not very smart especially when u have 2 turns left.

8- Having 2 GKTs squads[elites or otherwise] were well worth it. Not only were they solid in being my mobile fire-base but also in CC. I thought about DS them but think of it this way. Having them start off early on the table will remind your opponent of the 4xpsycannons that will come their way from Turn 1(barring LOS ofcourse) and knowing full-well the chances of the GKTs getting fired at are quite minimal or maybe 50/50(my math-hammer on the shrouding is laughable :lol: ) Another reason for putting them down early is that, [in case of Vs Necrons] they would have to get in close for their Immortals to shoot at anything beyond the GKTs which in my case were my PAGKs and LRs/Walker. Destroyers on the other hand would also have to eat way too many guns(Stormbolters AND Psycannons) if they moved too close to fire at anything with their 36" guns(48" counting their 12" movement). Even though you are 'presenting' your army to your opponent like a menu on Pizza Hut, they themselves are putting up their own guys to return fire from your knights and/or vehicles;not to mention a probable charge next turn (with LR/LRCs).

9- Monoliths. They are the epitome of a 'mobile-terrain', if there ever existed one.They are very effective in denying your units from assaulting any necrons if played well which was the case in my batrep. Not being able to move around a fat-living metal and at the same time getting shot to bits is not funny at all. I find that its better to blow these up once they get too close to you, but NOT before. you guys wereright on the money about Liths'. If it DS and scatters too far for its guns to be useful then leave it and kill the Ds/HeavyDs due to their speed and weapons range. As long as you don't have my luck, :D they would be dead before the Liths' pose a threat to the rest of your army. The good thing about killing them later rather than earlier in the game is
<A>You get a nice fat terrain on the table that blocks LOS from both sides(which is more beneficial to you than him) , <B>Forces him to rethink his whole plan of a mobile-terrain, though it IS his plan, it will NOT be in his favor if he starts losing necrons w/o the help of a 2nd WBB. <C> He expects you to kill it anyways so that the rest of his units(which in my opinion are more dangerous) escapes unscathed, so denying him his 'scare-tactics' plan would force him to rethink his strategies.

10- Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers, no matter what you guys are right; these guys MUST go down,FAST!!. Had i not been too much of a genius at my deployment of infantry/vehicles blocking my onw LOS to the enemy, I could have scored my self some nice VPs (5 Ds= One LR....sweet!!!). Throw EVERYTHING you've got, even if its stormbolter lovin' if u must regardless of the fact they have T5. Not only they are dangerous AND fast, they score you really good VPs. (5-Ds=5 wounds at 250 pts OR 10 warriors=10 wounds at 180 "w/ lots of other necrons of same type for WBB rolls", do the math and i think you get my meaning.)

That's it for today my fellow knights in shiny aegis. True to the word. Most that I've learned I employed and it paid off. From list-changing to tactics, I wished I could have been better or learned more on how to do a Solid Deployment. Cuz my deployment was way off hehehee,...Hope I could write more, but only these come to my mind for now.

Thanks a bunch, especially SR for starting this thread in the first place. All of you brothers', and i really mean ALL have given me sound advice/tactics. May our Aegis shine true to the end. AND hopefully that stupid rumor about our NFWs nerfed to STR5 are blasphemous lies at best. (Which reminds me can any1 confirm this or did i just woke up on the wrong side of the galaxy?)

Yours Sincerely and Most Appreciative,

Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."
Xander Qruze

"...I am your Angel, but I was born a Devil..."