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The Venators


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#1
Nash Trickster

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While I was "working" (yes, the quotes are definitely necessary) on my two previous DiY chapters, one of them (the Doom Bringers) being a specialist in Tyranid fighting and the other (the Paladins of Dorn) being quite expert at Ork extermination, I realized that I had never yet seen a chapter which used the Prefered Enemy: Eldar rule and decided that my next project should be to write up a good backstory for such a chapter.

I've left this idea floating around in my mind for quite some time now and I think I finally have a decent sinopsis for such a chapter, but before starting to work on a fully develloped IA for this chapter I thought it "safer" to run my ideas through the DiY masters here at B&C. So, here are the initial ideas...

Posted Image
Eldaris Xenos Non Patieris Vivere.



Founding: 5th (I want them to be fairly ancient for their reputation as boarding actions experts to be established widely enough throughout the Imperium)

Geneseed: Ultramarines

Homeworld: None, they are a fleet based chapter. Though they have in the latest millenia (since late M38) been more or less active only in the Northern regions of the Segmentum Ultima and more precisely the Atlarian Sector.

Organisation: They are a Codex chapter, following the teachings of the beloved Primarch to the letter. However, over the millenia since their creation, they have become specialized in space fighting and boarding actions.

History: In 539M38, the Warpstorm known as "The Wrath of Saint Lacrimae" [for more about this Warp Storm see here] reached the Chronian sub-sector and cut the normal shipping routes between the Mining Worlds of the Lewarde System and the Forge-World of Etueffont XC, forcing the vessels to choose a lesser evil and cross the Gulf of Pandora, a Warp anomaly, a zone of calm in the Empirean, devoid of any current.

The Navis Nobilite archives show that the Gulf had always been avoided because its crossing is impossible via the Empyrean and thus forced the vessels which wished to cross it to exit the Empyrean and attempt the trip on conventional propulsion alone for several weeks before reentering the Warp to finish their travel, hence mutiplying the risks inherent to any Warp translation and increasing the average travel time. But with the Storm blocking the other possible ways, crossing the Gulf became the only solution.

Almost immediately, the vessels attempting the crossing of the Gulf were attacked by Eldar pirats, who destroyed over 50% of the vessels, heavily impacting the production levels of the Forge-World. A Navy fleet was sent from Kar Duniash with the mission to put an end to the xenos threat in the Gulf but the fleet had only limited success, allowing only a fraction more of transport vessels to reach their destination while being slowly but surely reduced in numbers with each encounter with the fast Eldar ships, at such a rate of attrition, the fleet would not have survived very long.

It was at this point that the Venators, reknown throughout the Imperium for their anti-piratical actions, were called upon by the Lord of the Administratum [Anyone knows the actual ranks of this branch of the Imperial machine?] of the Atlarian Sector.

Upon their arrival, the chapter master immediately saw the grave mistake made by the Navy Commander in choosing to try to organize the shipping vessels into caravans and escorting them through the Gulf. He knew that such a powerful piratical fleet needed a base of operation and that only by finding it could the gulf be secured. He thus set a trap, sending a caravan of empty old vessels, most of them quickly patched together ships saved from the scrap yards, to cross the gulf and, when the Eldar pirats attacked, let them destroy the caravan without interfering, before simply following them at a distance...

The Astartes Fleet soon found itself in an uncharted zone of the Gulf, filled with dense black nebulae, and the chapter master knew that the Eldar base must be hidden there. He sent small ships to scout the area and one of them quickly found the source of the Eldar presence in the reagion. Within one of the denser Nebulae lay a small system, a small sun and a single planet, a Maiden World known as Harathandirell to the Xenos.

The first intention of the chapter Master was to call Exterminatus on the planet, but, having learned of the presence of such a world in the middle of the Gulf, a world which could serve as a waypoint for the vessels forced to cross the Gulf, and which could be fitted as a Navy base to increase the Imperial presence in this area of the Sector and bring it back fully under Imperial rule, the Sector and Navy command put pressure on the Astartes to capture the world instead...

The space marines half-heartedly complied. They first launched a massive attack against the Haven Class Spire in orbit around the planet, capturing it at a high cost, and then planned a land assault to completely rid the planet of any xenos presence. But this action was to prove much harder than expected... The Eldar of Craftworld Alaitoc lend their help to their Exodite and Piratical brethren and the chapter found itself stuck in a fight for the planet which was to last for 15 years, each faction winning and loosing ground in turn.

Finally, after 15 years seeing his men falling at the hands of the Xenos, the Chapter Master received a message from the High Lords of Terra: the might of his chapter was needed elsewhere and the planet was to be considered Perdita and submitted to Exterminatus... Enraged by the useless loss of so many of his brethren, the Chapter Master complied immediately, but swore that the Xenos would eventually pay for the death of so many fine warriors. [I hesitate here, I could make him bomb the planet before the Imperial Guard units participating in the land assault could have been withdrawn, but I'm not sure it's a good idea]

Ever since, the chapter has engaged the Eldar wherever they met them, often to the detriment of other objectives...


Colour Scheme:
Posted Image
(Note the black left kneepad, in memory of the fallen brethren of the Battle for Harathandirell)

======

So, that's about all I have come up with so far... I'm waiting for your comments, criticisms and ideas... :confused:

(A huge thanks to Iron_Father, from several other Warhammer 40000 communities for the wonderful work he did on the Chapter's symbol.)

Edited by Nash Trickster, 31 March 2011 - 11:46 AM.


#2
battle captain corpus

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I like what you've done so far, some nice points and characterfull bits. The colour scheme is great, nice and clean with the black kneepad setting it off fluff wise.
I enjoyed reading it very much, look forward to more! :confused:
Capture1

 

 

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#3
Nash Trickster

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Thank you battle captain corpus...

=====

Well, no criticism?

Should I take it that everything seems fine to the IA masters? :)

Seriously, if anything seems "off" or "a bit far-fetched" I'd rather know it now before I set to write up a full IA than having to modify whole paragraphs/sections of my IA later, so let me know if anything bothers you!

#4
Severus6

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If I were to lay out any criticism to this, I would ask why the anti-eldar theme? I think that this Chapter theme is broad is enough to accomadate any and all comers. Now I know that you have specifically built other Chapters around an anti-xenos frame but I dont think your Venators need it. Additionally I would work on their fleet as they are obviously a fleet based Chapter.


It was at this point that the Venators, reknown throughout the Imperium for their anti-piratical actions, were called upon by the Lord of the Administratum [Anyone knows the actual ranks of this branch of the Imperial machine?] of the Atlarian Sector.


I would replace called upon with requested. You dont tell a Space Marine Chapter to do anything,...especially those of the Administratum. Maybe the Inquisition may get away with a stunt like but not them.


Upon their arrival, the chapter master immediately saw the grave mistake made by the Navy Commander in choosing to try to organize the shipping vessels into caravans and escorting them through the Gulf. He knew that such a powerful piratical fleet needed a base of operation and that only by finding it could the gulf be secured. He thus set a trap, sending a caravan of empty old vessels, most of them quickly patched together ships saved from the scrap yards, to cross the gulf and, when the Eldar pirats attacked, let them destroy the caravan without interfering, before simply following them at a distance...


This I can see; a Space Marine Chapter moves in and basically says "Fine, you obviously need me and if you want my help then you will do it my way. Period. What are your questions? There should be none." I might build this a little bit better (the trap I mean), maybe a running engagement with the Imperial Navy, keeping the SM Fleet hidden away, possibly Scout vehicles hidden among debris, what have you,...if it looks to much out of the ordinary then it wont be good bait and your trap wont be effective.

Finally, I would change caravan to convoy or flotilla.

Just a few thoughts, hope they help.

Severus6

Edited by Severus6, 06 October 2007 - 12:04 PM.

 



The only prize for second place in this game kiddies is a shallow grave. You had all better remember that, because I certainly wont forget it.
 

The rules for both chess and war remain the same: attack, defend, capture, and sacrifice. Win at all costs.

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#5
Nash Trickster

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If I were to lay out any criticism to this, I would ask why the anti-eldar theme? I think that this Chapter theme is broad is enough to accomadate any and all comers. Now I know that you have specifically built other Chapters around an anti-xenos frame but I dont think your Venators need it.

I see what you mean, but the whole point is to write fluff which would support/justify the Prefered Enemy: Eldar rule. Like I said, I'm yet to see a chapter (with a develloped fluff) which uses this rule ;)
Now, I didn't want this chapter to be "overly" marked as anti-xenos either... Nor too specialized. My 2 previous chapters are quite divergent from the Codex and I wanted this one to be almost strictly Codex (but for their "recent" specialization in Eldar-fighting of course)

Additionally I would work on their fleet as they are obviously a fleet based Chapter.

This is planned, but since the descriptionof fleet itself wouldn't have brought much of importance to the synopsis, I've left it out of the picture for now ;)

I would replace called upon with requested. You dont tell a Space Marine Chapter to do anything,...especially those of the Administratum. Maybe the Inquisition may get away with a stunt like but not them.

Ah! Another case of "lost in translation", I didn't realize that "called upon" bore the meaning of "ordered to"... I'll make sure not to make that mistake in the final IA. Thanks, this kind of things helps me a lot!

This I can see; a Space Marine Chapter moves in and basically says "Fine, you obviously need me and if you want my help then you will do it my way. Period. What are your questions? There should be none."

That's exactly the feeling I want it to have... If that's what you imagined from reading it then it must mean I'm on the right way ;) I'll make try to make sure this is clearly suggested by the final draft.

I might build this a little bit better (the trap I mean), maybe a running engagement with the Imperial Navy, keeping the SM Fleet hidden away, possibly Scout vehicles hidden among debris, what have you,...if it looks to much out of the ordinary then it wont be good bait and your trap wont be effective.

True, I'll devellop this part of the history with that in mind...

Finally, I would change caravan to convoy or flotilla.

Convoy it'll be then ;)

Just a few thoughts, hope they help.

They sure do. If you think of anything else let me know!

Edited by Nash Trickster, 06 October 2007 - 12:33 PM.


#6
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Upon their arrival, the chapter master immediately saw the grave mistake made by the Navy Commander in choosing to try to organize the shipping vessels into caravans and escorting them through the Gulf. He knew that such a powerful piratical fleet needed a base of operation and that only by finding it could the gulf be secured. He thus set a trap, sending a caravan of empty old vessels, most of them quickly patched together ships saved from the scrap yards, to cross the gulf and, when the Eldar pirats attacked, let them destroy the caravan without interfering, before simply following them at a distance...


If the ships had no cargo in them, and looked like they had been hauled from a scrapyard, surely the Eldar Pirates (the most -relatively- enlightened and technologically advanced race in the 40k universe) would smell a rat? They are not so stupid as to be piratical for destructions sake? Surely 'Pirates' raid for something?

The Astartes Fleet soon found itself in an uncharted zone of the Gulf, filled with dense black nebulae, and the chapter master knew that the Eldar base must be hidden there. He sent small ships to scout the area and one of them quickly found the source of the Eldar presence in the reagion. Within one of the denser Nebulae lay a small system, a small sun and a single planet, a Maiden World known as Harathandirell to the Xenos.


Surely the Eldar Pirates would be able to detect these scouting vessels? The aformentioned technological superiority, far far in advance of the Imperium, should surely allow them to avoid detection by Imperial vessels? Why didn't they simply destroy the scouts anyway if their hiding place was so bleedingly obvious.

The first intention of the chapter Master was to call Exterminatus on the planet, but, having learned of the presence of such a world in the middle of the Gulf, a world which could serve as a waypoint for the vessels forced to cross the Gulf, and which could be fitted as a Navy base to increase the Imperial presence in this area of the Sector and bring it back fully under Imperial rule, the Sector and Navy command put pressure on the Astartes to capture the world instead...


Well, the Astartes do not ever take orders or allow themselves to be pressured by the Imperial Navy. Secondly, the Navy were not involved (so far as I have read) in this operation, and unless the Astartes were keeping them constantly informed of the situation (unlikely in my book) then the Navy could not apply any pressure at all. Exterminatus also does not necissarily mean the total obliteration of the world itself, just she scouring of its surface. Not only that, but a thought just occurred to me, why, if a waypoint in the gulf was needed, wouldn't the Navy simply have set up a Star-Fort in the area?

Also, the time frame of this piece makes any sort of political manuevering, 'putting pressure on the astartes', would not garner any weight.

Finally, after 15 years seeing his men falling at the hands of the Xenos, the Chapter Master received a message from the High Lords of Terra: the might of his chapter was needed elsewhere and the planet was to be considered Perdita and submitted to Exterminatus.


Unfortunately, even though they are the High Lords, I don't see the 'ordering' to fit with Astartes as a whole, though this is just my personal bias, not only that but I don't quite think the High Lords have a hand in every single matter, battle or crisis in the Imperium otherwise there would be a thousand High Lords rather than a handful.

Also, if the Marines and Navy held orbital supremacy, they would simply withdraw their forces and bomb the planet into oblvion. It could still be used as an outpost and docks, though no resources could be harvested from it or used.

----------

I like it overall, but it does need some adjusting here and there. The real main sticking point for me, is the trap, as with Severus6 I think it is an especially weak trap, and I have said that above, so I won't re-iterate here.

If your having trouble deciding on a Symbol, why not look up the meaning of 'Venator', if it is a word and not a 40k High Gothic adaptation, it is 4:40am and my mind is not working properly, so forgive me for bieng a little absent minded here, it does seem strangely familliar but I can't seem to grasp the meaning.

Anyway, its good, but needs work, which can be said for many threads in Liber so it's no bad thing. Nice work on the whole Nash Trickster.

The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#7
Nash Trickster

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If the ships had no cargo in them, and looked like they had been hauled from a scrapyard, surely the Eldar Pirates (the most -relatively- enlightened and technologically advanced race in the 40k universe) would smell a rat? They are not so stupid as to be piratical for destructions sake? Surely 'Pirates' raid for something?

Of course... This is mainly due to the "over-summarization" of my ideas. Like I said in earlier posts I'll devellop the "trap" a bit more than it is currently... ;) And as far as "being hauled from a scrapyard" I'm not sure Eldar would make a difference between those vessels and "normal" human vessels, they'd all look like scrap to them :jaw: More seriously, I've thought about a few issues I'll have to deal with when writing the full IA (like how they could fool the Eldar thermal sensors for example)


Surely the Eldar Pirates would be able to detect these scouting vessels? The aformentioned technological superiority, far far in advance of the Imperium, should surely allow them to avoid detection by Imperial vessels? Why didn't they simply destroy the scouts anyway if their hiding place was so bleedingly obvious.

Notice that in my summary, I never said the scout vessel simply "stumbled upon the hidden system, and I never said it wasn't destroyed right after reporting its find ;)

Well, the Astartes do not ever take orders or allow themselves to be pressured by the Imperial Navy. Secondly, the Navy were not involved (so far as I have read) in this operation, and unless the Astartes were keeping them constantly informed of the situation (unlikely in my book) then the Navy could not apply any pressure at all.

The Navy was involved since before the Astartes came into the picture, what would the Fleet sent from Kar Duniash be but a Navy Fleet? And as far as "putting pressure" is concerned, I see the events unfolding somewhat in the way of the Damocles Gulf Crusade in Andy Hoare's book. The Marines come in and take the lead, but there's still a "conclave" formed from all the interested parties (The Mechanicus, since it's their precious supplies that are pillaged, The Administratum, since the pillages impact their abilities to pay their precious tithes, the Navy, since they were the first called for help and resented being being "pushed aside" in favor of the Astares, and a few other parties...) which all get a "voice" in the matter.

Exterminatus also does not necissarily mean the total obliteration of the world itself, just she scouring of its surface.

True, but the scouring in most cases also means the burning of the panet's whole oxygen, making it hardly usable for a quite long period, a situation which the different "lobbies" didn't want...

Not only that, but a thought just occurred to me, why, if a waypoint in the gulf was needed, wouldn't the Navy simply have set up a Star-Fort in the area?

Because star-forts come in quite limited supply? :P

Also, the time frame of this piece makes any sort of political manuevering, 'putting pressure on the astartes', would not garner any weight.

the way it's written right now makes it wrongly look like time flows quickly, in the develloped version, the trap will not succeed in revealing the Eldar position immediately, the first attempts at attacking the system will not be met by success and there will thus be more time for the politics to come into play...

Unfortunately, even though they are the High Lords, I don't see the 'ordering' to fit with Astartes as a whole, though this is just my personal bias, not only that but I don't quite think the High Lords have a hand in every single matter, battle or crisis in the Imperium otherwise there would be a thousand High Lords rather than a handful.

I put the High lords here because they are the most likely to be able to take such a decision. But I could take someone less "visible" but only somewhat less powerful to play that role without a problem, an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor could decide too much time and supplies are lost on these xenos and decide that Exterminatus-time has come ;)

Also, if the Marines and Navy held orbital supremacy, they would simply withdraw their forces and bomb the planet into oblvion.

Yes, if it was the case, but I never said it was the case, the 15 years of fighting saw the Imperium and the Eldar winning and loosing ground, be it on the planet itself or in its skies/orbit...

It could still be used as an outpost and docks, though no resources could be harvested from it or used.

Well, since the ressources have been stretched a bit by the years of pirat activity prior to the discovery of their hidden base, the "involved parties" would probably see the ability to use the planet's ressources as a nice "compensation"...

If your having trouble deciding on a Symbol, why not look up the meaning of 'Venator', if it is a word and not a 40k High Gothic adaptation, it is 4:40am and my mind is not working properly, so forgive me for bieng a little absent minded here, it does seem strangely familliar but I can't seem to grasp the meaning.

It is indeed a Latin word which means hunter... But I've exhanusted the list of predators without finding one that would fit... The closest I've come to an idea for a badge so far is a spear-tip.

Anyway, its good, but needs work, which can be said for many threads in Liber so it's no bad thing. Nice work on the whole Nash Trickster.

Well, thanks... And I agree that it needs work, it's merely "general ideas" so far, it will take a bit of tempering/reworking to completely hold water... All the points you raise will definitely be adressed in the final IA.

Edited by Nash Trickster, 08 October 2007 - 05:43 PM.


#8
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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but I never said it was the case


You say this quite a few times, but it is not a valid excuse. Just because you omit something does not mean that everyone will follow your train of thought. The points I raised that you gave this answer to were points that were assumed from the way it was written. Until you change the way it is written it would be better to explain what you mean't, rather than saying that 'I didn't say that specifically'. No you didn't, but one thing does naturally lead to another when writing a piece like this.

The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#9
Nash Trickster

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Maybe there's a small misunderstanding between us here: I was not trying to go for "excuses".

Like I said, the text in the first post is only a summary of my ideas, hence keeping a lot of details out. And my following explanations were simply there to add a layer of details to make the general picture clearer. I only posted them so you can tell me if such explanations, once added into the final text, would "solve" those problems you raised. But apparantly you did not took them in the way I intended.

=====
And now back on topic:

I have decided on a chapter symbol: a speartip surrounded by wreaths. Someone I know from another board is currently working on it...

I also have an idea for the Chapter standard, but it'll be far beyond my abilities to draw and I haven't found (yet? ^_^ ) somone who's willing to help me with that. Here's my idea:

The "old" chapter standard was destroyed during the Battle for Harathandirell (adding to the chapter's dishonor) and a new one was weaved soon after, it ressembles greatly the older one but with a slight modification. The old banner depicted a purely mythical scene, a power-armoured man riding a 8-legged steed killing a kind of giant serpent with his spear, but the new one replaced the serpent by an Eldar Warrior...

Edited by Nash Trickster, 09 October 2007 - 10:49 AM.


#10
Grey Hunter Ydalir

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Maybe there's a small misunderstanding between us here: I was not trying to go for "excuses".


Hey no worries, I'm just trying to get you to see that people don't naturally see things the same way you do. I'm not directing it totally at you, its something we all do. An IA should really be written as if someone who never encountered 40k before was your target audience. Often such things read better that way.

Not trying to be antagonistic mind, just pointing things out as I see them.

The Octaguide.
The Thousand Marine Myth.

On the scale mismatch of bolts and bolters by Coldfyre

"...I have seen the birth of this world and I have seen its death. I walked with the first men and I shared a beer with the last. For me everyone is both old and young at the same time as a million lifetimes pass before my eyes and humanity is like the grains of sand in the desert, each breath to me a sigh in the vast never-ending vacumn of space."
-Silver Phoenix


#11
Nash Trickster

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It's time for a little threadomancy...

After posting those initial ideas, I realized that while I had a good basis for the chapter's recent history, I lacked a real theme for the chapter. I had absolutely nothing to flesh out the chapter pre-Harathandirell and even less as far as their beliefs and "culture" are concerned.
However, I think that, through the "natural" process of fleshing out the chapter, an interesting theme may have started to appear. I'll start by explaining how I got where I am right now and explain my new ideas then...

When I was working on fleshing out the Harathandirell War part of the Venator's IA, I had to come up with names for first their main Battle Barge and then their Chapter Master. Since there was a show about Old Norse Myths airing on TV at the time I was writing, I simply picked Sleipnir as the Battle Barge's name, without any other reason than having it named after Odin's eight-legged horse was "cool". Then, following on with that "theme", I named the Chapter Master Aðalráðr Hvítkárr. I then stopped "working" on them for a while.

Recently, for a short-story competition on a French board, I decided to write about a Space Hulk cleansing and to use my DiY boarding-specialists (I'll translate that story into english asap). When I had to come up with names I continued with the Norse theme only because it was now linked to the chapter in my head...
The competition isn't over yet, but the story's doing fairly good. Got quite a few comments/criticisms via PM which make me feel confident about my chance in the competition. One of the comments I got is that the Norse/Viking touch, cleared of the usual "cheese" that goes with it (think "Space Wolves"), fitted well to a chapter constantly sailing the stars... And I'm inclined to agree.

But then I realized that having a common "culture" for a crusading chapter was not easy to explain, since such a chapter is supposed to be recruiting from the various worlds it encounters it's recruits would thus have very different cultures. Of course, there's always the common "excuse" of having the recruits be renamed once they join the chapter but I had put myself in a position where I had to explain why, unlike other crusading chapters, my marines took names which have nothing to do with High Gothic, to explain why they have that "Norse" touch.

But then, thinking about crusading chapters, the wanderers of the 41st Millenium, somehow made me think about those "traveller ethnies", like Tzigans in western Europe, and how they lived within a culture while keeping their own... It got me thinking that there's a source for potential recruits that hasn't been used so far: Void Borns.

Life within an Imperial Ship is clearly a harsh one, not much less than on the feral worlds where most chapters find their recruits, and it could thus be a great source of recruits for a chapter such as the Venators, who would be not only looking for tough potential recruits, but also for recruits who would easily adjust to the life in the Void.
Moreover, Void Borns would only have the "culture of the Void", mostly Imperial dogma tinted with a bit of Void-superstition, and would thus be almost "blank slates" upon which the chapter's own culture could be written.

That's the basis of the chapter as I see it now. Since these explanations were fairly long, much longer than I anticipated, I'll summarize the idea I'd like your opinion about:
The chapter had an "initial" culture, coming from its first members (either from those who were made into the first marines or the Cadre who formed them), and because it specialized in space warfare early in its history, it was decided to recruit amongst Void Borns, "scanning" the crews of any imperial vessel they encounter for potential recruits. Through the ages they thus kept the initial culture, slightly modifying it, adding to it, adapting it with Void Born myths...

What do you think about this idea?

======

On a completely unrelated topic, I've got an idea which may add a bit of character to the Chapter:
The chapter has a number of "weird" Power Weapons, which have been passed on down generations, their blades made of a very hard milky crystalline matter of "unknown origin"... According to chapter legend, they were all forged from a single tooth of a Void predator [Void Whale?]. They are collectively known as "The Void Fangs" and bear individual names, testimony to their own history.

I like this idea, but I'm afraid it may smell a bit too much of Camembert, hence why I need your opinions. Does it sound as cheesy to you as it seems to be to me? ;)

Edited by Nash Trickster, 01 September 2008 - 10:23 AM.


#12
Master Of Malfeasance X

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The only problem I can see for your chapter is the very real possibility that, if they last long enough, the will literally run out of eldar.

No one EVER takes preferred enemy: Tau. Those slippery aliens seem to be on everyone's good list.
Now it's been ten thousand years,
Man has cried a billion tears,
For what he never knew,
Now man's reign is through,
But through eternal night,
The twinkling of starlight,
So very far away,
Maybe it's only yesterday
-Zager and Evans, 2525

#13
Commissar Molotov

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The idea of recruiting from the Void-born is very evocative. It's certainly one of the best parts of the Dark Heresy rulebook. But I can't help thinking that the Norse culture gets in the way a little. I will admit that there's a slight personal bias there - I don't really like the idea of Viking Space Marines, and the Space Wolves have effectively colonised most things to do with the Norse and Scandinavian mythology. But even laying that aside, I still find it a little awkward. It seems to detract from the interplay between your Chapter and the Eldar - something that I think could be very interesting indeed.

Gravitational pressures, inbreeding and warp anomalies take their toll. What effect the warp has on these void born workers is uncertain, but there is something strange about them for all to see. Their features are drawn and their skin pallid. They may have some minor deformity, or oddness about their speech, gait or general appearance.

The void born unconsciously channel the fickle powers of the warp, making them preternaturally lucky... the void born are shunned and mistrusted by most.


I think the concept of the Void-Born definitely gives you a lot of material to play with on its own - Marines that are shunned by those they protect could well be very interesting.
 
QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#14
Severus6

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Seconded on the "Norse" thingy,...its simply not needed. Now as to the Void born concept, that has merit and can go in many different directions. It gives them that cold aloof feeling that most, not all, Chapters have toward the general populace. But this even better,...your boys are out there, really out there,...they are one of "them" or could be.

Sev
 



The only prize for second place in this game kiddies is a shallow grave. You had all better remember that, because I certainly wont forget it.
 

The rules for both chess and war remain the same: attack, defend, capture, and sacrifice. Win at all costs.

I only use my gun, whenever kindness fails.


#15
Nash Trickster

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Mol, Severus,

I can easily see why the "Norse" theme bother you... It's true that it could impact negatively the chapter's image, keeping the focus away from more interesting aspects.

Well, I can easily drop it and I will...

However, do you really think it'd be a problem if I simply kept the Norse names, without using any other aspects of Norse Myths?
Because IMO, the Norse names are so different from the usual Imperial "Latin" ones that it'll help to make the Venators appear far removed from the Imperium they live in and serve...

Edited by Nash Trickster, 01 September 2008 - 02:44 PM.


#16
Severus6

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If your looking for different then go "hard different"! At the risk of sounding trite, the Norse concept is beginning to get the same stigma attached to it as the whole "lost in the warp" gig. I dont think you want that or any links to that. Look at other traditional ocean going/sea travelling groups/societies. Maori, Eskimo/Inuit, Chinese (Pacific Rim obviously) Japanese (coastal kingdoms pre-Meiji). Additionally you could even do Renaissance or post Enlightenment themes as seapower was very quickly coming into its own. Something to consider.

Sev
 



The only prize for second place in this game kiddies is a shallow grave. You had all better remember that, because I certainly wont forget it.
 

The rules for both chess and war remain the same: attack, defend, capture, and sacrifice. Win at all costs.

I only use my gun, whenever kindness fails.


#17
Commissar Molotov

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I'm inclined to agree with Severus. You say that "Norse names are different from Latin ones and they'll help to make the Venators appear removed from the Imperium." The problem is that Norse names are used by the Space Wolves and they'll help to make the Venators appear similar to the Space Wolves. It tarnishes and damages the integrity of your Chapter, IMHO.

I think you could go with strong names without needing to use Latin names. I presume you have the Dark Heresy rulebook because you mentioned the Void-Born? If so, the name-charts within give you plenty of corrupted options for names. One of my favourite Marine names ever is Huron Grimm, a Crimson Fists Sergeant. It's not a latinate name, really, but it's strong and purposeful.

Ultimately it's your Chapter and you can do what you want, but in the confines of the 41st millennium, anything Scandinavian will be compared with the Space Wolves, and I don't think it's a comparison you need.
 
QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#18
Nash Trickster

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Severus,

I like Maori names a lot, but I'm already using them for my Brazen Wyverns... Chinese and Japanese ones bring strong connotations with them, as strong as the Norse ones IMO, which I think would be quite hard to handle... I'll take a look into Eskimo/Inuit ones...

=====

Molotov,
While I don't see the use of Scandinavian names as necessarily immediately adding a Space Wolves feel, it's certainly something I don't want. Consider the Norse thing as being dropped.

I presume you have the Dark Heresy rulebook because you mentioned the Void-Born? If so, the name-charts within give you plenty of corrupted options for names.

Yes, I have it. And no, I'd rather not use those names. I'd rather stay well away of these names since they are included there as examples of "common Imperial names"... I think my mention of "Latin" names was a bit misleading, for, if a lot of the Imperial names have a latin source, not all of them do... What I meant actually was that I'd like something which sounds fairly outside of the "usual" range of names in the 41st Millenium.

Well, if I can't find something fitting, I may eventually drop the idea of "differentiating via names" and use Imperial ones after all...

Edited by Nash Trickster, 01 September 2008 - 06:14 PM.


#19
Commissar Molotov

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I think you have to balance being "different" versus being "distinct". There's very little point being different for the sake of being different. What you want is a DIY that stands out in the DIY community (whilst fitting into the wider 40k universe). A distinct, characterful idea will always gain more appreciation than an idea that sets out just to be different.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you call your Space Marines. What matters is the interplay of your broader, key themes. The names might help to accentuate your themes, but you need to focus on your underlying themes. Whilst Space Marines are often portrayed as holding out against overwhelming force, the audacity of a Space Marine to go after the Eldar is great indeed. Humanity's greatest psykers (barring the Emperor) are flickering candles before the bonfire of the Eldar. They may be a 'dying race', but their knowledge and mastery of the arcane is inestimably superior to the Imperium's. It's very interesting. The interplay there is key, I think.

The void-born also add an interesting angle which you can utilise. Their intuitive affinity with the warp may even have been what set things into motion with the Eldar...
 
QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.