Captain Idaho Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 well the reference they were involved in was the battle of Maccragge when it was just the Ultramarines fleet/planet vs the filthy aliens so id say if they are non-astartes vessells (which it seems to imply by the names) they were Ultramar vessels from battle fleet Ultramar. reading inbetween the lines (combined with the old SM dominion BFG rules) that means they are under the command of the Ultramarines permanently and non-Naval vessels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt tyranus Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I have qualms about the Benedictio and the Imperator Rex. I was under the impression that both of these vessels were Imperial Navy ships. I'll double check tonight. I don't think the scenario blurb goes deep enough in detail to confirm that the Benedictio is an Ultramarine ship and not an Imperial Navy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) well the reference they were involved in was the battle of Maccragge when it was just the Ultramarines fleet/planet vs the filthy aliens so id say if they are non-astartes vessells (which it seems to imply by the names) they were Ultramar vessels from battle fleet Ultramar. reading inbetween the lines (combined with the old SM dominion BFG rules) that means they are under the command of the Ultramarines permanently and non-Naval vessels. So this was before Battlefleet Bakka showed up, then? I have qualms about the Benedictio and the Imperator Rex. I was under the impression that both of these vessels were Imperial Navy ships. I'll double check tonight. I don't think the scenario blurb goes deep enough in detail to confirm that the Benedictio is an Ultramarine ship and not an Imperial Navy one. Doesn't it talk about Lt. Varras, though? Isn't he a Navy officer? Sorry, I don't have the BFM book. Edited November 7, 2007 by Brother Pariah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 yeah it was prior to the battle fleet Tempestus showing up. cant give the exact UK WD it was in, but it is a good Ultramarine read! had a horrible picture of fantast Zombies on it, and substantial Battle of Maccragge fluff in it, 2 of which are extracts of fleet engagements, one of which is a report from Calgar himself! cant believe a staunch Ultras fan like your self hasnt read it :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 (edited) It's the US issue 255, April 2001. Best. Issue. Ever. New Reference of orbital defenses, pg 66: "- The static orbital defenses were also impressive, ringing Macragge with a cordon of fire that, against a conventional opponent, would prove impossible to breach." Ah, I see the reference to the Imperator Rex now. It's interesting, and hard to tell whether it would be an Imperial Navy ship or Astartes. Elsewhere it talks about a dozen ships already in orbit and every day more arrived from the warp. Could be system defense vessels (there's no battlefleet Ultramar, as cool as that would be). I still haven't found the Benedictio. Was it in the starter set book? [nvm this reference, doi] Edited November 7, 2007 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 but Brother Pariah is a englishman, so he would have a separate issue with that article. definitely one my favourites though, even enjoyed reading the fantasy stuff! Ah, I see the reference to the Imperator Rex now. It's interesting, and hard to tell whether it would be an Imperial Navy ship or Astartes. Elsewhere it talks about a dozen ships already in orbit and every day more arrived from the warp. Could be system defense vessels (there's no battlefleet Ultramar, as cool as that would be). your right there has never been mention of a battle fleet Ultramar, but id imagine there is an equivilent, as Calth builds many ships for the Ultramarines, the transport in Dead sky, Black sun was an Ultramar vessel (and transports are forbidden normally to all but the Navy remember) and my earlier references to the Dominion BFG rules all indicate that the Ultras do command a substantial non-astartes vessels fleet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Right, I know. I think the "battlefleet" title is given only to very large fleets though. Granted, Ultramar has a sizable fleet, but it's nothing compared to Battlefleet Bakka. I guess it shouldn't though, since Bakka is to cover the entirety of the Segmentum Tempestus. So, moving along the train of thought, I looked it up in the BFG manual. Here's what they've got to stay about things: pg 86 - "Each battlefleet normally consists of between 50 and 75 warships of varying size, although in some sectors this will be more or less, according to the importance of the sector and the number of enemies it must contend with. As well as these destroyers, frigates, cruisers and battleships, a battlefleet also has access to countless smaller vessels such as transports, shuttles, messenger craft and long-range patrol craft. In addition to interstellar vessels, a sector will also be protected by numerous ships incapable of warp travel, such as system patrol ships and defence monitors. These are backed up by stationary defences - space stations, orbital defence platorms, groundbased defence lasers and missile silos and orbital mines." As an aside, my strike cruisers are personally named the Righteous Fury, Icarus, Venator, and Vae Victus, while my battlebarge is the Emperor Incarnatus and have Gladius squadron Circes and Sword squadron Orion. The Hunters have remained unnamed, mostly because I never use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt tyranus Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 I still haven't found the Benedictio. Was it in the starter set book? Yes, it's in the intro to the first mission from the mission book in the Battle for MaCragge box set. Looking over it again, it really doesn't specify that it is an Ultramarine ship. Sorry for any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 but Brother Pariah is a englishman, I certainly am not! I dug out the issue in question, and the Imperator Rex's demise is indeed before the arrival of Battlefleet Tempestus, so I'll put it down on our list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Article: The Great Devourer by Andy Chambers New Strike Cruiser name: - "On the next firing pass three cruisers were hit by these organic mines and further damage was inflicted by the bio-ships firing high velocity projectiles, charged particle beams and plasma discharges. The strike cruiser Cassius had its drives crippled by the corrosive viruses and as it drifted helplessly was overwhelmed by a swarm of small Tyranid drone ships. Whether by accident or design the Cassius was not to be captured: its plasma drive went critical and the cruiser and a dozen of the Tyranid vessels were incinerated in an expanding halo of brilliant white light." Interesting fluff: - "The three battle barges Caesar, Octavius and Severian spearheaded the attack, at one point vapourising a whole Tyranid ship at close range with devasting combined salvos from their bombardment cannon as they cut their way into the swarm." This happened just before or right after Bakka arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 Interesting fluff:- "The three battle barges Caesar, Octavius and Severian spearheaded the attack, at one point vapourising a whole Tyranid ship at close range with devasting combined salvos from their bombardment cannon as they cut their way into the swarm." This happened just before or right after Bakka arrived. that is interesting, id imagine when 3 BBs combine their firepower they can probably vapourise just about any ship! what an image too. I certainly am not! actually it was assumption on something you said once! thought id throw it in there and see what response you came up with! P.S. if your a Welshman, Scot or Irishman i apologise! i know from experience from my family (who are Welsh/Irish) that they would not like to be called English! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 I certainly am not! actually it was assumption on something you said once! thought id throw it in there and see what response you came up with! P.S. if your a Welshman, Scot or Irishman i apologise! i know from experience from my family (who are Welsh/Irish) that they would not like to be called English! Nah, I'm an American of German/Russian/Jewish/Irish/Danish/African/etc/etc-descent. Some of my ancestors made it pretty clear (from the barrel of a gun) that they were not English. :pinch: No worries, mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 No worries, mate! that's a very English phrase, mate. your a very big old mix so i cant even imagine the accent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 No worries, mate! that's a very English phrase, mate. your a very big old mix so i cant even imagine the accent! Just imagine an American "TV accent," but a lot slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) New source: US White Dwarf 299, December 2004 Article: The Ultramarines At War By Pete Haines pg 98 "The Ultramarine fleet is capable of fighting a space action and has done so on many occasions. These battles were driven by expediency rather than choice though. While a ship fights, the vast majority of the Space Marines on board are reduced to being spectators, which is rightly regarded as a waste of their potential." "An Ultramarine fleet is instead the means by which the Space Marines reach their destination prior to battle on the surface." "Battle Barges are the match of any Imperial Navy battleship. Heavily armored and shielded, they are capable of trading broadsides with any foe. They are also equipped with powerful bombardment cannons that excel at smashing orbital defenses as well as delivering apocalyptic orbital strikes. A Battle Barge will typically transport three or four Companies of Space Marines along with all the supporting equipment they require." "Strike Cruisers are similar in mass to Imperial Navy Light Cruisers. Strike Cruisers are faster and better armored than any equivalent vessel. Their armament is by necessity quite light but includes a bombardment cannon, which makes them more dangerous in a planetary assault than in a fleet engagement. A Strike Cruiser can transport a single Company of Space Marines with its supporting equipment." "Both Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers are able to launch squadrons of Thunderhawk gunships. The Thunderhawk is a veritable workhorse in the Ultramarines' service. They are able to operate in space or in atmosphere, are heavily armed and armored, and can carry a substantial detachment of 30 to 40 Ultramarines. The purpose of the Thunderhawk is the safe delivery of its Space Marine cargo. In space actions, Thunderhawks enable Space Marines to board enemy vessels. Space Marines are trained to move quickly toward key objectives on an enemy vessel (such as the gun decks, engine room, or bridge), eliminate the personnel there, plant charges, and retreat. In the particularly vicious fighting that occurs during boarding actions, Space Marines excel above all other troops, and their raids frequently leave powerful vessels crippled and helpless." "In ground combat, the Thunderhawk will smash its way through any air defenses and deploy its passengers directly onto their objectives with unerring precision. Such tactics make a mockery of fortified lines and render even fast-moving armored forces vulnerable to sudden close attack. Traditionally, the Ultramarines seek to direct air-landing assaults at enemy headquarters, as such an attack represents the best chance of finishing the campaign immediately." pg 99 "In addition to Thunderhawks, Space Marine ships carry enough drop pods to enable the entire complement of Space Marines to perform a simultaneous combat drop." "On many occasions, the Ultramarines have targeted a key objective and dropped one or more Companies right on top of it. With no warning, such an attack is virtually irresistible, a fact that has given rise to the term 'death from above.'" Edited November 20, 2007 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted November 20, 2007 Author Share Posted November 20, 2007 Good stuff. I'll try to edit it into the top post n the next day or so. When you get a chance, would you mind finding page numbers for these, please? The Horus Heresy Vol. IV: Visions of Death (2006)Past Battlebarges: Gauntlet of Power Macragge's Honour - Roboute Guilliman's flagship (oh boy this one is a beaut too! :woot:) Past Strike Cruisers: Mlatus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Gauntlet of Power and Mlatus are on page 68, while Macragge's Honour is on 75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I've got more. Not sure where it's from, but it was printed after Armada. Fanatic magazine maybe? Only know the article name. Space Marine Fleets by Matt Keefe, Andy Chambers and Gav Thorpe "Usually, one of the Chapter's Captains will be appointed Master of the Fleet with overall responsibility for the Chapter's entire fleet. This will place at his disposal all the pilots, gunnery officers, command crews and navigators in the Chapter." "Whilst these serfs make up the vast builk of crews aboard Space Marine vessels, the Master of the Fleet also has a number of Space Marines under his command, who act as high-ranking officers aboard the fleet's vessels, providing captains for individual vessels, leading specialised boarding parties, or otherwise overseeing the dedicated serfs who provide the bulk of a vessel's manpower." "In some cases, it will be the Master of the Fleet's own company who provide these Marines, with each of his veteran [sergeants] acting as captain to a different vessel within the fleet while their own squad members each man a different vital area within that same vessel. In other cases, squads from different companies within the Chapter may be charged with manning the fleet, serving under the command fo the Master of the Fleet in just the same way as a Space Marine battleforce may be made up of squads drawn from several companies across the Chapter under the battle-command of a single, nominated force commander." "At an absolute minimum, a Master of the Fleet typically needs eighty to a hundred Marines to properly crew the fleet, its Thunderhawks and its landing craft, and most Chapters have measures in place to ensure that a standing force of this size is permanently available to the Master of the Fleet, be it his own company in its entirety, or squads from across the Chapter left permanently at his disposal." Source: Warhammer Monthly Comic 3243152.M41 - "Renegade Space Hulk Vessel Codename Blasphemous Voyager entering Salamantis System, Aesir Sector, Segmentum Tempestus. Adeptus Astartes Ultramarines Chapter Strike Force Sejanus moving to intercept." A boarding party, consisting of six squads and Brother-Captain Sejanus, got on the hulk and set charges which sent it into the heart of the system's star, obviously destroying it. A squad and Captain Sejanus were killed, along with light casualties amongst the others. I chose that last one to stick here because it was a fleet action. But, you can probably also put it in the other timeline you started, Brother Pariah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 I've got more. Not sure where it's from, but it was printed after Armada. Fanatic magazine maybe? Only know the article name. Space Marine Fleets by Matt Keefe, Andy Chambers and Gav Thorpe Yeah, it's from Fanatic Magazine. I tried to copy/paste from the PDF copy SG released a while back, but it wouldn't work. Thanks for taking the trouble to type it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted January 3, 2008 Author Share Posted January 3, 2008 Source: Warhammer Monthly Comic 3243152.M41 - "Renegade Space Hulk Vessel Codename Blasphemous Voyager entering Salamantis System, Aesir Sector, Segmentum Tempestus. Adeptus Astartes Ultramarines Chapter Strike Force Sejanus moving to intercept." A boarding party, consisting of six squads and Brother-Captain Sejanus, got on the hulk and set charges which sent it into the heart of the system's star, obviously destroying it. A squad and Captain Sejanus were killed, along with light casualties amongst the others. I chose that last one to stick here because it was a fleet action. But, you can probably also put it in the other timeline you started, Brother Pariah. I was going through this thread with the intention of catching up on my updating of the top post, and noticed that there's no issue and page number for this entry. Do you know what issue and page number this is from, by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Neg. It is included in a graphic novel called Eternal War, "a bolt-blasting collection of the finest Space Marine adventures from the pages of Inferno! and Warhammer Monthly. From infested hulks to fields of death to endless battlegrounds, mankind's finest defenders struggle with the vilest alien foes, to emerge triumphant, whether it be in life or in death. Including high octane carnage from Bill Kaplan and Jeff Rebner in the classic Ravenwing and works by such might talents as Logan Lubera, Mike Perkins, Dan Abnett, Gordon Rennie, Kev Hopgood, and many, many more." At least that's what the back cover said. Inside they don't give issue or page numbers, unfortunately. It's titled "Sacrifice," however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Pariah Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 Well, that sounds like enough to go on. Thanks, Seahawk. I'll try to update the top posts for this and the Timeline thread soonish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Let's start with a biggy, shall we? Most of this article is about what we want. Battlefleet Gothic Magazine 15 (May? 2003) As penned by John Lambshead Pages 18-23 Before you carry this too far along, I should point out a few things. This article was one of the first (and susequently last) bits of fan fiction published by GW. This same article also appeared in USWD#288 at about the same time and caused no small controversy. As you know, the article expounds on the Ultramarine Fleet's ability to engage in naval actions - something that is clearly prohibited by the Codex Astartes (which the Ultramarines are known to adhere closely to). The Seditio Opprimere even caused a serious stir - so serious in fact, that GW would lock any threads on their forums that even mentioned it. Eventually, GW had no choice but to declare this article as "non-canon" (even though it is still available as a PDF download from Specialist Games). This is backed up by White Dwarf because in USWD#299, only three Battle Barges are mentioned as belonging to the Ultramarines and the SO was not listed among them. So GW has clearly reverted back to the original fluff. Another source which you may find interesting and helpful is Fanatic #6 - it lists a wealth of information about how Space Marine Fleets function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairnius Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 So, are we not allowed to use the Seditio Opprimere in BFG games? I was going to use it as my flagship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) Friendly ones. Like, within your gaming club. In pick up games with random people though, very bad idea. Thanks for that bannus. I thought it was regular ol' GW fiction rather than fan fiction, since GW changes their fluff every edition anyway. In the WD article I have, all six of the current battle barges are mentioned...I think. I'm away from all my mags right now, but I can doublecheck it tomorrow. Besides, people were just babies and didn't want the Space Marines fleet list to have anything good in it :wink: Edited January 11, 2008 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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