Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Naval Operations of Ultramar


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
196 replies to this topic

#51
The Emperor's Champion

The Emperor's Champion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 10,730 posts
If anyone cares to read what became more or less a debate between just Bannus and myself on the current scope and composition of our Chapter's fleet: go HERE

I suppose we got a bit off of the original topic, but so is the way of discussion. :)

"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop

Names & Ranks Of The Ultramarines Chapter & Legion

The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#52
Brother Pariah

Brother Pariah

    ++ LIBRARIUS EXTORRIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 4,427 posts

Eventually, GW had no choice but to declare this article as "non-canon".


Considering they've never declared anything to be "canon" in the first place, I find this statement to be rather dubious. You got a reference for that?

I, too consider the article to be, well, a bit dodgy, but it's an interesting version of the background. As far as using the Seditio Opprimere, I believe it's still legal to use it, but it widely acknowledged as the most broken ship in BFG, and will probably earn you nothing but scorn from your opponents.

Calgar hates Tyranids.

-Brother Pariah


#53
The Emperor's Champion

The Emperor's Champion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 10,730 posts
Wow, you mean we have the Mephiston of BFG? I've only ever played for 1/4 of a game so I had no idea.

"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop

Names & Ranks Of The Ultramarines Chapter & Legion

The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#54
Techmarine Data007

Techmarine Data007

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,034 posts
I'd like to playtest it some before I call it broken, especially opposite the Chaos battleship with full lance decks, but otherwise, I'm just not seeing it.
Signature not compliant with B&C forum rules
"Guilliman of Ultramar is coming right at them. To kill them. To kill them all."
Know No Fear
 
[url=http://thelordinquisitor.com/][img=http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i317/tylerrox6688/lordibanner4.jpg][/url]

#55
Seahawk

Seahawk

    ++ OSSIFRAGUS PRAECURSORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 9,409 posts
The Chaos ship has lances out to the same range, but 2 less shots. In my opinion, the Seditio Opprimere, while in line with fluff because it was written in, is not broken at all. It even costs more than the original battle barge (also 150 more than the Chaos battleship). Like I mentioned earlier, I think it's just that people didn't want the Space Marine fleet to become a fleet, and just stay an armed transport convoy.

Fluff: Naval Operations of Ultramar. Also includes all known named ships for all chapters, as well as ship sizes and assorted information.

Personal: The Renegade Hobbyist. This is where I do things! Also, follow me on Twitter at @Atomic_Hamsters.

Post link for all the instances in which Reanimation Protocols doesn't activate, but should. 


#56
Captain Idaho

Captain Idaho

    ++ ARGENTARIUS IRACUNDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 17,800 posts

The Chaos ship has lances out to the same range, but 2 less shots. In my opinion, the Seditio Opprimere, while in line with fluff because it was written in, is not broken at all. It even costs more than the original battle barge (also 150 more than the Chaos battleship). Like I mentioned earlier, I think it's just that people didn't want the Space Marine fleet to become a fleet, and just stay an armed transport convoy.


i agree 100%. the SM fleet is probably the only balanced fleet in the game. they pay an arm and a leg for their decent ships, while their Strike Cruisers are really weak.

the articles is highly dubious as the ship lists it uses arent even the recognised ships GW have always maintained. but it brings up some very good expansions of stuff never covered and for the purposes of this project it is useful.
I've started up a new YouTube channel! Please support me as I attempt to grow it.

Serious Geeks

#57
Bannus

Bannus

    ++PRAETOR BELLUM++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 12,813 posts

Considering they've never declared anything to be "canon" in the first place, I find this statement to be rather dubious. You got a reference for that?

The term "canon" became quite prevalent on the GW forums and it was on those forums that people quickly started punching holes in the fluff surrounding that article. This article - probably more than any other - is the reason why GW no longer accepts articles from the fan-base that discusses anything beyond the hobby aspect.

Anyway, the more recent fluff from Fanatic #6 which expounds a lot about how Space Marine Fleets operate (and even has two varaint fleet lists to boot) would make a large fleet impractical for any Space Marine Chapter numbering about 1000 Marines.
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
gallery_26_4045_3593.jpg

#58
Seahawk

Seahawk

    ++ OSSIFRAGUS PRAECURSORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 9,409 posts
Doesn't it also talk about how in the case of large fleets, there are less SM crew per ship and so they don't get the boarding bonus? The dominion fleet comes to mind, since they use that as an example of an Ultramarines fleet setup.

Fluff: Naval Operations of Ultramar. Also includes all known named ships for all chapters, as well as ship sizes and assorted information.

Personal: The Renegade Hobbyist. This is where I do things! Also, follow me on Twitter at @Atomic_Hamsters.

Post link for all the instances in which Reanimation Protocols doesn't activate, but should. 


#59
Captain Idaho

Captain Idaho

    ++ ARGENTARIUS IRACUNDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 17,800 posts
logically id imagine the Ultramarines would have disciplined infantry who would fill in for missing Astartes, thus stretching the capacity of the Ultramarines fleet further.

sure there is no direct evidence, but there is implication what with the organised nature of the Ultramarines and the mass amounts military organisation in Ultramar combined with the fluff before the rules in BFG Armada that states that the Chapter serfs are well armed, trained and motivated even without the support of their genetically modified laws.
I've started up a new YouTube channel! Please support me as I attempt to grow it.

Serious Geeks

#60
Bannus

Bannus

    ++PRAETOR BELLUM++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 12,813 posts

Doesn't it also talk about how in the case of large fleets, there are less SM crew per ship and so they don't get the boarding bonus? The dominion fleet comes to mind, since they use that as an example of an Ultramarines fleet setup.

Exactly - but the fleet is expanded by incorperating Imperial Naval vessels into the fleet and distributing the Marines throughout it.

The keys here are that the fleet is temporary and is not composed exclusively of Space Marine vessels.
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
gallery_26_4045_3593.jpg

#61
Bannus

Bannus

    ++PRAETOR BELLUM++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 12,813 posts

logically id imagine the Ultramarines would have disciplined infantry who would fill in for missing Astartes, thus stretching the capacity of the Ultramarines fleet further.

sure there is no direct evidence, but there is implication what with the organised nature of the Ultramarines and the mass amounts military organisation in Ultramar combined with the fluff before the rules in BFG Armada that states that the Chapter serfs are well armed, trained and motivated even without the support of their genetically modified laws.

Yes. All Space Marine Chapters have a cult within their serfs dedicated to supporting the fleet.
Remember that during a zombie apocalypse, you don't have to out-
run the zombies....just the guy next to you.
gallery_26_4045_3593.jpg

#62
Seahawk

Seahawk

    ++ OSSIFRAGUS PRAECURSORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 9,409 posts
Well, hate to bring up old threads, despite their awesomeness value like this one, but new information has become available.

Fist of Macragge: Brother-Captain Hektor commanded this Lunar-Class battleship (Lunars are cruisers now, but before?) during the Great Crusade. It was destroyed by the Furious Abyss, a Word Bearers ship built by traitors within the Mechanicus from Mars, a couple months before the Battle for Calth.
(Battle for the Abyss, 2008)

Fluff: Naval Operations of Ultramar. Also includes all known named ships for all chapters, as well as ship sizes and assorted information.

Personal: The Renegade Hobbyist. This is where I do things! Also, follow me on Twitter at @Atomic_Hamsters.

Post link for all the instances in which Reanimation Protocols doesn't activate, but should. 


#63
Capt tyranus

Capt tyranus

    ++ TELLURIS TUITIO ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 1,877 posts
New information makes it OK.

Let me rephrase that. VALUABLE new information makes it OK. And this qualifies.

As a matter of fact, I was looking for this thread last week.

I just didn't dig deep enough it seems.

If copies of Battle for the Abyss are trickling out, we should get LOTS of new fluff to post here, in the Ultra names, and in the Ultra history threads.

So, with that in mind, I'm going to go ahead and sticky this thread.

Edited by Capt tyranus, 30 July 2008 - 08:01 PM.
updating.

Congratulations Inquisitor, you are getting the bonus plan....

#64
The Emperor's Champion

The Emperor's Champion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 10,730 posts
You found the thread! *applause*

I've looked for this thing quite a few times now with no luck!

"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop

Names & Ranks Of The Ultramarines Chapter & Legion

The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#65
Seahawk

Seahawk

    ++ OSSIFRAGUS PRAECURSORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 9,409 posts
In the times of the Great Crusade, space marines could commandeer ships, much like Inquisitors today. In fact, they did just that by saying "Is mine, now we go fast" to the admiral of the Wrathful, some sort of cruiser, so technically it was an Ultramarines ship for a little while.

Fluff: Naval Operations of Ultramar. Also includes all known named ships for all chapters, as well as ship sizes and assorted information.

Personal: The Renegade Hobbyist. This is where I do things! Also, follow me on Twitter at @Atomic_Hamsters.

Post link for all the instances in which Reanimation Protocols doesn't activate, but should. 


#66
Capt tyranus

Capt tyranus

    ++ TELLURIS TUITIO ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 1,877 posts
Yeah, one of the reasons I'm stickying this is so I don't have to search for it every couple of months.

Anyway, new Ultra Strike Cruiser:

Valin's Revenge

It's from page 137 of the 5th Edition rule book.

This ship supported Imperial forces defending Ghosphora Hive by bombarding Ork lines from orbit. An then delivered Captain Sicarius and the men of the 2nd Company via Drop Pod assault so they could push the Orks off Ghosphora's walls during the Black Reach campaign.

Sorry, no year given. At least until the boxed set comes out. Or so I hope.

You found the thread! *applause*

I've looked for this thing quite a few times now with no luck!


Congratulations Inquisitor, you are getting the bonus plan....

#67
Brother Pariah

Brother Pariah

    ++ LIBRARIUS EXTORRIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 4,427 posts
Hooray for the stickiness! I'll update the top post as soon as I may. Thanks for the continued contributions, brothers.

Calgar hates Tyranids.

-Brother Pariah


#68
Brother Pariah

Brother Pariah

    ++ LIBRARIUS EXTORRIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 4,427 posts
Top post: updated!

We need a few more things before I feel comfortable sending this to the Librarium:

There's nothing on Macragge's system defenses (see various accounts of the Battle for Macragge)

not enough of tactics (ditto)

not enough on the changes wrought in the wake of the First Tyrannic War (some BFG material describes this, especially the document detailing the infamous Seditio Opprimere)

not enough on the Codex Astartes and naval operations (Wasn't there something in Nightbringer when Uriel flew a Thunderhawk past its fuel limits or something?)

Let's get cracking, Brothers! *Goes back to sleep.*

Calgar hates Tyranids.

-Brother Pariah


#69
Seahawk

Seahawk

    ++ OSSIFRAGUS PRAECURSORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 9,409 posts
US White Dwarf 299, pg98-99, December 2004 (You'd might as well write the whole thing in)

- The Ultramarine fleet is capable of fighting a space action and has done so on many occasions. These battles were driven by expediency rather than choice though.
- An Ultramarine fleet is instead the means by which the Space Marines reach their destination prior to battle on the surface.

- "Battle Barges are the match of any Imperial Navy battleship. Heavily armored and shielded, they are capable of trading broadsides with any foe. They are also equipped with powerful bombardment cannons that excel at smashing orbital defenses as well as delivering apocalyptic orbital strikes. A Battle Barge will typically transport three or four companies of space marines along with all the supporting equipment they require. The exact complement of space marines assigned to a Battle Barge depends on the mission to be undertaken and is far from standard.

- "Strike Cruisers are similar in mass to Imperial Navy Light Cruisers. Strike Cruisers are faster and better armored than any equivalent vessel. Their armament is by necessity quite light but includes a bombardment cannon, which makes them more dangerous in a planetary assault...A Strike Cruiser can transport a single company of space marines with its supporting equipment. The effect that even a single company of Ultramarines can have is considerable, and often the arrival of a Strike Cruiser is enough to convince an opponent to withdraw."

- "Both Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers are able to launch squadrons of Thunderhawk gunships. They are a veritable workhorse in the Ultramarines' service. They are able to operate in space or atmosphere, are heavily armed and armored, and can carry a substantial detachment of 30 to 40 Ultramarines."

- "The purpose of the Thunderhawk is the safe delivery of its space marine cargo. In space actions, Thunderhawks enable space marines to board enemy vessels. They are trained to move quickly toward key objectives on an enemy vessel (such as the gun decks, engine room, or bridge), eliminate the personnel there, plant charges, and retreat. In the particularly vicious fighting that occurs during boarding actions, space marines excel above all other troops, and their raids frequently leave powerful vessels crippled and helpless.

- "In ground combat, the Thunderhawk will smash its way through any air defenses and deploy its passengers directly onto their objectives...such as at enemy headquarters, to finish the campaign immediately."

- "In addition to Thunderhawks, space marine ships carry enough drop pods to enable the entire complement of space marines to perform a simultaneous combat drop...During a drop, the Deathwinds land first. They...are instead guided by a Machine Spirit to draw enemy fire during the descent. Practically, there is little opportunity for ground fire to be brought to bear, however. Drop pods travel at very high speeds and make planetfall within minutes of launch. Once the Deathwinds land they open to reveal their many and varied weapon systems and proceed to saturate the landing zone with heavy suppressive fire. The drop pods carrying space marines make planetfall just as the Deathwind pods expend their ammunition. Within seconds of landing, the hatches are blown and the space marines form up and move toward their objectives. On many occasions, the Ultramarines have targeted a key objective and droppd one or more companies right on top of it. With no warning, such an attack is virtually irresistable, a fact that has given rise to the phrase "death from above." "

Fluff: Naval Operations of Ultramar. Also includes all known named ships for all chapters, as well as ship sizes and assorted information.

Personal: The Renegade Hobbyist. This is where I do things! Also, follow me on Twitter at @Atomic_Hamsters.

Post link for all the instances in which Reanimation Protocols doesn't activate, but should. 


#70
Seahawk

Seahawk

    ++ OSSIFRAGUS PRAECURSORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 9,409 posts
US WD 288, January 2004, pg114

- Codex Astartes tactics involves harassing enemy fleet and picking off flank guards, catching invaders betwee the anvil of the forts on the ground and the hammer of space marine drop pods, while the fleet would assault invading ships

Evolution of the Codex:
- "Calgar realized that the Ultramarines had been guilty of the sin of pride. The Codex Astartes was made for the space marines; the space marines were not made for the codex. The codex contained no direct answer to the xenothings because they were unknown to the blessed primarch when he wrote his divine tome. The Ultramarines were going to have to improvise by using the principles enshrined in the Codex Astartes to devise novel tactics."

Fluff: Naval Operations of Ultramar. Also includes all known named ships for all chapters, as well as ship sizes and assorted information.

Personal: The Renegade Hobbyist. This is where I do things! Also, follow me on Twitter at @Atomic_Hamsters.

Post link for all the instances in which Reanimation Protocols doesn't activate, but should. 


#71
Brother Pariah

Brother Pariah

    ++ LIBRARIUS EXTORRIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 4,427 posts
War-Cruiser Crotaline: Failed to respond to Guilliman's request for ground support at the Battle of Calth. Perhaps destroyed by the Word Bearers' War-Cruiser Lacertian. (Space Marine, 1989)

Edited by Brother Pariah, 16 August 2008 - 07:29 PM.

Calgar hates Tyranids.

-Brother Pariah


#72
Brother Pariah

Brother Pariah

    ++ LIBRARIUS EXTORRIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 4,427 posts
"Orbital fortresses and ponderous systems defense monitors surrounded Macragge with a ring of firepower." (Codex Tyranids, 1995, p. 7)

Edited by Brother Pariah, 17 August 2008 - 08:30 AM.

Calgar hates Tyranids.

-Brother Pariah


#73
Seahawk

Seahawk

    ++ OSSIFRAGUS PRAECURSORIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 9,409 posts
Thunderhawk Gunships (assigned to Valin's Revenge)
Gladius
Thunderstorm

C:SM 2008, various pages


System Defences
Orbital fortresses and ponderous system defence monitors surrounded Macragge with a ring of firepower (BFG magazine 10, pg 6, 2002)

Edited by Seahawk, 12 October 2008 - 08:48 PM.

Fluff: Naval Operations of Ultramar. Also includes all known named ships for all chapters, as well as ship sizes and assorted information.

Personal: The Renegade Hobbyist. This is where I do things! Also, follow me on Twitter at @Atomic_Hamsters.

Post link for all the instances in which Reanimation Protocols doesn't activate, but should. 


#74
Brother Pariah

Brother Pariah

    ++ LIBRARIUS EXTORRIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI CEDO ++
  • 4,427 posts
The Codex Astartes forbids refueling a Thunderhawk Gunship with its engines turning over. (Nightbringer, p. 136)

Rather than bring his Thunderhawk in for refueling, Captain Ventris orders the Vae Victus to drive the Dark Eldar ship toward the Thunderhawk so it can be boarded. Lord Admiral Tiberius says that this maneuver "goes against everything in the Codex Astartes regarding ship operations." (Nightbringer, p. 136)

Calgar hates Tyranids.

-Brother Pariah


#75
The Emperor's Champion

The Emperor's Champion

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 10,730 posts
Macragge's Honour - Guilliman's Flag Ship
Posted Image
Miatus Strike Craft
Posted Image
Gauntlet Of Power Battle Barge
Posted Image

Edited by The Emperor's Champion, 10 November 2008 - 05:45 AM.

"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop

Names & Ranks Of The Ultramarines Chapter & Legion

The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.