Thranquil Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Greetings Im currently putting the finishing touches on my Dark Angel Successor force and am thinking ahead to the next project. Whilst thinking of who to collect next I began thinking of who would be a good opponent to the DA - and obviously their main rivals are the Fallen. Using the Chaos Codex makes sense in order to do this as the Fallen were from the same time as the Traitor Legions. Plus it gives me more options than the Loyalist Marine codicies. So I was wondering if there were any Fallen players out there and if so how do you field them? Any advice would be appreciated. I will be posting a basic concept list in the Chaos Army List section aswell. Thranquil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tfcdogbert Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 The problem i feel with using chaos for fallen, is that the fallen dont tend to be very demonic in my experience, they dont really have cult marines or Daemons at their disposal and that has cut out most of the Chaos options. But if you were to do them, infantry heavy is how i would do it myself, a lot of really elite men of the line as most of their equipment was left on caliban as it was destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathsHead Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Using the last codex, veteran skills without marks of Chaos would have seemed appropriate. Lots of Chosen, etc. Using this codex, max out the Chosen entry with various shooting and close combat squads. Use economic HQs. In terms of Icons, the Icon of CG is the only one that seems to make any sense, and more or less equates to the Dark Angels "stubborn" nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thranquil Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well I agree with both of you in regards to the elite aspect, using the Chosen etc. However when it comes to the cult troops and other options Im sure there are many ways I could justify fielding a small number in the warband. After all the Fallen possibly would be drawn to the traitor legions - the only other people from their time, both have a common goal etc. My personal take on how I want my warband to be is that whilst not above using some allies from the traitor legions, they will not make use of Possessed or Daemons (except the Defiler because I want one lol) as thats going a bit too far in their eyes. I see them as carving out either a tiny empire in some forgotten system or resorting to becomming raiders while they try to rebuild a sizeable force. Thranquil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 After all the Fallen possibly would be drawn to the traitor legions - the only other people from their time, both have a common goal etc. only then they wouldnt be fallen DA anymore they would be chaos sm . also most cult units en mass are legion units . even if not all zerkers and pm are DG and WE most of them are and its impossible to have non EC/1ksons without they legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thranquil Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 Yeah, point taken. I will have to see where there morals take them lol. But for the time being I'd probably try and keep them as a renegade force seperate to the 'proper' chaos marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Chaos Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I field my fallen as chosen in my chaos warband. As the story goes there are not usually found more than a few fallen in one place, unless they are recent renagades. If that is tha case then any cult marines would be acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thranquil Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 I thought about doing it that way but then, after reading the Soul Drinkers omnibus and seeing how they build up their chapters numbers (admittedly in the blink of an eye), it got me thinking that perhaps a small number of Fallen, drawn together could start to rebuild their numbers. For instance, would it not be feasible for a Fallen Commander and some Fallen veterans (Chosen squad) to recruit and train more marines? Also, how many Fallen could potentially survived the destruction of Caliban? There must be hundreds out of the thousands left there (even with the split between the Lutherites and Loyalists on Caliban before Johnson got there). Or is it the case that most players out there just represent the Fallen with just a tooled up Chosen squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 the problem with the that would be that the SD were a fleet based chapter .all they needed to create new sm was carried to the broken back , when they destroyed their fleet [of course they could only use them after they repaired their geneseed ] . on the other hand a the fallen DA lost all that when caliban was broken up . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos strong Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 The thing is about fallen, they arent ALL really like ALL chaosy like the other legions that fell to chaos. Alot of them were sort of on the short end of the stick in a situation. When you read the fluff on them, it talks about them being more powerful then some of the longest lived chaos space marines. Some of them just go away and do thier own thing, hidding in seclusion, or some of them land on forgot worlds and rule as the worlds leader(George W.) IDK, i never like to see a "fallen" army, because for one alot of people have them, THERE AINT THAT MANY FALLEN, and they dont really work like a regular army anymore. Alot of them have goals they are trying to achieve and things of that nature so they team up with other Chaos Space Marines that have some of the same goals, and then work with them. So to be honest, i think you should field a regular CSM army with like a Unit of Veterans with skills and weapon upgrades and feild them as your fallen. Thats my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Fallen Dark Angels are not entirely Chaos-y. Once in a while you might get a Veteran Assault Marine be a Khornie guy. Maybe a Libby as Tzeentch follower or something, if you REALLY wanted it. But Corp. Chaos has the right approach. One small unit of Fallen. Look at it this way, the Fallen are spread out and scattered throughout the universe. Now, suppose a bunch of fallen got together say in the numbers exceeding 20. Every Dark Angel and all their successors will drop everything they are doing and come after them. Holding the Cadian Gate? Wait what? Fallen Dark Angels on the other side of the galaxy? Bam. All gone. Fallen Dark Angels can NOT go out and get more geneseed and make a new Chaos army. Why? Because the new guys wouldn't be considered "Fallen". Since they do not meet these criteria. A. Not from Caliban B. Not formerly from the Dark Angels and C. When every last Fallen is killed, the last going to be Cypher, the Emperor will either, get skewered by the Lion sword OR re-awake. and D. In the end, the Emperor wins. Besides, where would they go get new geneseed? They don't even own a Thunderhawk. All they have is Power armor, a boltgun and maybe a melee weapon, and their hatred. Many times the Fallen throw away their power armor as it marks them as a Space Marine, and seriously, lone Space Marine in the middle of no where? Safety in numbers ;) Only if you're in a crowd of innocents. Does not apply to having a horde of Fallen Marines, as the Dark Angels will send everything they have at it, and seriously, all the Fallen are considered Veterans, so making them in to 1 or 2 Chosen squads is a good idea. Making an entire army of them not for fluff reasons. Unless you wanna play a scenario and let your opponent field 100 Terminators that Deep Strike on Turn 1, and 100 Bikes that are all fearless ;) Then yay fluffy! Go! ;) I'd go for a Chosen Squad, instead of the army. Buy a box of Dark Angel Vets, and chaos-ify them ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thranquil Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 Well thanks for all the replies. I do agree that a warband of Fallen wouldn't work. I might just make my commander one of the Fallen or think of another style to go for. To be honest the main reason for the Fallen idea was the imagery from the Descent of Angels novel - the black power armour with the white hoods. I guess I can find other ways to go about this. Thranquil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leethal Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 You can go make a Dark Angels succesor with black armor and a white hood. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widowmaker Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Well thanks for all the replies. I do agree that a warband of Fallen wouldn't work. I might just make my commander one of the Fallen or think of another style to go for. To be honest the main reason for the Fallen idea was the imagery from the Descent of Angels novel - the black power armour with the white hoods. I guess I can find other ways to go about this. Thranquil Actually, I don't see why you couldn't run a Fallen warband. Basically, as with all things in this hobby it's up to you how you field your army and fluff can always be stretched to fit. You want a Fallen army? Set them in 30K. Not happy, Well, the Fallen were scattered through time and space - these guys all happened to end up the same place. Sure 30 - 40 or so might be a lot, but out of the thousands of Angels before the fall, that ain't that much (Perhaps I wouldn't recommend an army big enough for apocalypse, but again, you can strectch the fluff again if you need) If I was doing it... which I am... I'd say use the Chaos Codex and try and build a normal Dark Angels force as best as possible from it. Probably avoid too many Daemons - as with many above, i see the Fallen as disgruntled Space Marines (much like the Soul Drinkers in fact), not like the Traitor Legions as one normally thinks of them. I'd avoid using LEGION troops (obviously), but dedicating troops to gods, whether through icons or indeed actual cult troops shouldn't be too much of an issue - as mentioned above dedicated to Khorne isn't the same as being a World Eater. I'd think good templates would be a build half way between Night Lords and Word Bearers. But that's just me :huh: Where do they get re-inforcements? Same way other Chaos Legions get reinforcements. They can steal geneseed from the Dark Angels (heck, they almost did that in one book, didn't they?) They could arguably steal from other legions as the Iron Warriors do. They can have warriors that desert the modern Dark Angels - which will give you a modelling excuse to use green marines as well as black. They may have warriors joining and repainting their armour (although this is more of an argument for the Black legion - see the codex) They may look on the new marines as whelps or half breeds, but they would probably still need the numbers. And yes, if the Dark Angels heard of the band, they may come a calling, but will they hear? The galaxy's a big place after all. The Fallen may move on. Or they may not. They may wait around looking to add to their collections of authentic Rosarius. Hope this helps a little. Cheers Widowmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tfcdogbert Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 At the slightest sniff they would rain down from the skies like flies XD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeklos Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Another idea is to base a warband around a core group of 3-5 Fallen. The rest of the warband can be made from "cast-offs", exiles, and disgraced Loyalists. So, throw in some 13th Company Space Wolves, a few Blood Angels, a couple Raven Guard, some Crimson Fists, and a few lesser-known Chapters. The idea could be that this is a group of expatriates (either loyal to the Imperium still or just to the Emperor) that operate outside the boundaries of Imperial society for their own ends - whether those ends are just or ignoble. Kind of like how Cypher himself operates. He acts against Loyalist forces one moment, then helps PDF troopers crush a Chaos incursion the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widowmaker Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 At the slightest sniff they would rain down from the skies like flies XD. Then we shall swat them like the insects they are ^_^ Cheers Widowmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thranquil Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Thanks - someone who was thinking the same as me! Widowmaker, nice Fallen force btw. Thranquil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos strong Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Also many of the Fallen are NOT chaos space marines. They turned away from the emp during the H.H. BUT when the went into the warp they refused to accept the chaos demons as their new lords. SO the lords of chaos kick them OUT of the warp. But we all know that the warp doenst follow simple time lines, and alot of times when the kick them out, they can arrive 1k, 2k, or even 10k years in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Hockert Posted March 28, 2008 Share Posted March 28, 2008 I am also working on a Chaos Space Marine army based around the concept of the Fallen and think the Chaos rules can work just fine. I certainly agree that not all Fallen are Chaos Marines that doesn't mean that some of them are not. The depths to which each individual Fallen Angel sunk in their betrayal of the Dark Angels is going to vary. The way I'm doing my force is that I am avoiding all the cult forces and all the marks and icons except for Chaos Glory and modeling HQs and upgrade characters as Fallen in a combination of Chaos and Dark Angels livery, while leaving the basic soldiers as regular Chaos types. The regular types representing other traitor marines brought in over time to bolster the numbers the Fallen have at their disposal. My army will be painted similarly to the current Dark Angels scheme so that those atrocities that they commit may well direct Inquisitorial attention upon the Dark Angels. Of course an entire army of Fallen could work as well. Given the size of the old Space Marine legions its possible that there were several Chapters worth of Fallen that escaped the destruction of Caliban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 perhaps one way to get a whole army would be to make your commander and a few chosen original Fallen and the rest of the army come from a newly formed loyal DA geneseeded chapter. Say the commander is particularly ambitious (and sneaky) and he and his men encountered, ambushed and killed the training cadre who were supposed to be overseeing the new chapter, and then turned up in their place and gradually corrupted the rest of the chapter to chaos. they could pretend to still be loyal even, whenever they wanted to do something chaosy well, the DA chapters are notorious for ignoring orders and doing what they want anyway!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 or maybe there are some sm[fallen =chosen , asp champions] and the rest are tailored humans just like luther and the others ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted March 29, 2008 Share Posted March 29, 2008 I personally use my fallen in my Imperial Guard army where they control the planet :> for a mysterious plan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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