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IA: Stone Hearts MkII

Octavulg UM Loyalist IA 6th Founding

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#1
Octavulg

Octavulg

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FIRE ON THE MOUNTAIN: THE STONE HEARTS



"Throughout humanity's history, stone has served. Stone has been a weapon. Stone has been a fortress. Mankind has built with stone, and stone has built mankind. Let us remember this, and take it to our hearts. Let our hearts be like stone - ready to serve humanity, and the Imperium of Man. For when all else has failed, stone will still serve."
- Chapter Master Cambrius Vulk, The Book of the First"

Origins
”Men of Cathe, oh stand ye steady
It cannot be ever said ye
For the battle were not ready
Stand and never yield.”

-Cathian hymn

The Stone Hearts are products of the Sixth Founding. Upon their formal activation as a Chapter they journeyed to the home world which had been assigned to them, the tiny planet of Cathe in the galactic north-west, on the border between Segmentum Obscurus and Segmentum Pacificus. Cathe was a grey, rocky world, whose hereditary Duke had recently died, leaving no legitimate heir. The planet was relatively underdeveloped, and it's only city of any size was the capital, which housed the planet's only space port (which consisted only of a well-packed dirt field and a Naval fuel depot). The Chapter took the ducal castle as their fortress monastery, expanding and refitting until it (and the dungeons beneath it) were a fortress worthy of the Space Marines. Most of Cathe's population were hardy clansmen, accustomed to fighting for goods, honor, and land, and these doughty warriors made excellent recruits for the Chapter.

There was one small problem with Cathe. Much of Cathe's populace resented the transition to Space Marine rule, and a number of the local nobles had nursed this resentment in hopes of somehow rebelling and taking control of the planet for themselves. This resistance had coalesced behind the person of young Tyrion Cathek, the Duke's bastard son, despite his personal apathy toward the rebellion. His support among the population was significant enough to make planet-wide revolt a distinct possibility, and rebellion would mean that the Stone Hearts must either leave or suppress this challenge to their authority, greatly damaging the planet's capacity as a base. Neither option was acceptable to Chapter Master Cambrius Vulk, who chose a third course of action.
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Stone Hearts Marine in Standard Heraldry

Vulk offered to use his influence within the Imperium to help Tyrion obtain a Rogue Trader license. The brash and foppish young Tyrion was more than willing to trade his claims at ducal office for the chance to explore new worlds and stars - especially when Vulk offered to provide a company of troops as a perpetual escort for Cathek and his heirs. Tyrion left Cathe for the stars, and the Third Company went with him as his bodyguards – and to watch him closely. Ever since, one of the Stone Heart Battle Companies has escorted whichever scion of the Cathek family currently holds the commission to trade in the region, each mustering out upon the death of their charge. The Catheks have only rarely returned to Cathe, though the population still holds the memory of the Dukes closely in their hearts.

With Cathek gone and the Stone Hearts demonstrating their martial prowess through combat exercises across the planet, the murmurs of rebellion faded away. The Stone Hearts and the people of Cathe each settled into the routines of their lives, slowly becoming accustomed to the new order.

Precious Stones
”Vulk, I think this is going to be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.” – Tyrion Cathek

Of course, a new order only ever lasts long enough for its collapse to be surprising. A few brief decades later, the Chapter was on the brink of disintegration. Relations with the Adeptus Mechanicus had become strained when an irate Vulk explained to a senior Magos that the Techmarines of the Stone Hearts would be Stone Hearts first, and Adepts of Mars second. While most members of the Chapter Armoury personally agreed, the Tech-Priests took the alarming step of refusing to train further Techmarines. In itself, this was only a minor problem as the Chapter’s own Techmarines were willing and able to train others in the technical arts. However, at the same time, shipments of supplies to the Chapter dwindled to nearly nothing, with bureaucratic entanglements, piratical activity and production defects being only a few of the myriad excuses provided by the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Stone Hearts were being slowly starved of needed materials, their limited manufactory facilities simply unable to keep up with the demands of a full chapter.

Vulk concluded that the Stone Hearts would have to turn outside the traditional methods of the Adeptus Astartes in order to survive. He consulted with Tyrion Cathek, whose foppishness and brash nature had grown into an appreciation for the arts of trading and commerce and an equal willingness to enforce the dictates of the Emperor. Vulk had expected that Tyrion would recommend some alternate sources for materiel and equipment which would sustain the Chapter until Vulk could determine some method of restoring the Mechanicus' favor. What Vulk got was a prolonged dissertation on the commercial possibilities of the surrounding sectors, and an equally long list of potential sources for starship parts, weapons, munitions, cogitators, and the sort of goods that would be wanted in trade. The stunned Chapter Master could only watch as Cathek sketched out a comprehensive plan by which the existing resources and assets of the Stone Hearts could be parlayed into formidable wealth – wealth sufficient to ensure that the Stone Hearts could be ever-ready to enforce the Emperor's will.

Cathek's advice well-reflected the character of a Rogue Trader, but Vulk felt that whatever it might lack in orthodoxy, it compensated for with sheer practicality. It also allowed him a chance to keep the Chapter free from the influence of Mars, which appealed both to Vulk's pride and to his sense of caution – any pretense of reconciliation the Tech-Priests might concede in the future could hardly be trusted when it came. Better for the Stone Hearts to seek their own way, even if it might be an unfamiliar one. With Tyrion by his side, Vulk set out to seize the Chapter's future.
Reiving

Master Vulk was not the only one to find methods of dealing with the Chapter's logistical difficulties. Fiach Welf, then Captain of the Third Company, found himself far from Cathe, low on supplies, and equally low on prospects. He settled these difficulties by finding the nearest Space Marine Chapter and asking politely for aid. When his request was declined, Welf challenged his opposite number to a duel for the equipment he had requested. He triumphed, and the Company finished their patrol and returned to Cathe.

Though the practice was not institutionalized (both Vulk and Welf agreeing that adopting such practices on a large scale seemed a good way to bring down the ire of other Chapters upon the Stone Hearts), various other Captains through the Chapter's history have indulged in the practice when necessary (or when so inclined), though modern duels rely less on insulting the opponent until they consent to fight and more on the wagering of trade concessions, resources, or debts of honor.

Few are the Space Marine Captains who would decline such a challenge, and even some Imperial Guard commanders have been more than willing to test a dozen of their finest Guardsmen against a Space Marine. Most duels are non-lethal, and even when the Chapter loses they gain in knowledge. Though only a few duels are fought every decade, each one is seen as a mark of the warrior spirit of the Stone Hearts.

Over the next few months, Vulk and Cathek moved from system to system in the region – and on each world, Cathek whispered golden promises to all who would hear. On Drak-Dum, they made contact with a Brotherhood of the Demiurg – and in exchange for cleansing several nests of Orks as well as the concession of mineral rights on Cathe's barren antarctic continent, they secured a steady stream of processed ores, munitions, and technical advice from the Brotherhood's wisest craftsmen. Through the gilded, pirate-wracked worlds of the Faroe Nebula they spread word of the safety of the vaults of a Space Marine Chapter, and the reasonable price of that safety. At Este, they offered the Grand Duke shares in future properties seized from heretics and traitors in exchange for favorable trade status and export rights for the famous Estian smokewood. The High Archon of Blackmere gave a half-share of the stellar mines around the dying red dwarf Micturic in exchange for the promise of Space Marine protection for the delicate mining platforms. The wealth of dozens of worlds twisted around the words of Cathek and the imposing presence of Vulk, and soon a web of contracts, trade routes and commercial interests stretched across several sectors – with the Stone Hearts at its center.

Home World
”Call them to account, you say? The Stone Hearts own this sector. Their men guard half the palaces, their merchants buy the output of nearly all the worlds, and their fleets keep the pirates in check. Their failure is no longer an option.” – Inquisitor Tesseract D’Apothete

The domain of the Stone Hearts stretches widely now. Commercial routes, trading enclaves, mining concerns, exotic manufactoria, and Chapter bases dot the systems and sectors surrounding Cathe. Nonetheless, the core of their realm remains Cathe and its people.

Cathe is a rocky world, peopled mostly by hardy feudal tribespeople. The hereditary Duke and his attendant nobles each controlled vast tracts of the planet, and most of the population were members of various clans and tribes – with many nobles being clansmen and many tribesmen being nobility. Cathian society was usually embroiled in some form of low-intensity warfare, with clan obligations and feudal duties conflicting and interweaving in such ways that only the individual Cathian knew where his loyalties could truly be said to lie. Vicious skirmishes over land, cattle, honor, women, gold, and weapons were all common, and the allies of one battle were the enemies of the next.
”Tancred and Tyria”

Though the bond between the Cathek family and the Stone Hearts remained strong for many millenia, the most recent scion of the family strained the relationship nearly to its breaking point. In his later years, Tyrel Cathek was best described as a madman, even by the standards of the Imperium. While the targets of his wrath had always suffered consequences disproportionate to offenses, his growing tendency to indiscriminately slaughter those who opposed him offended the Stone Hearts' sense of restraint, as did his lamentable personal habits and tendency to jump at shadows. The Fourth Company was his bodyguard, and sworn to his service, but even the relatively hot-blooded Captain Tancred Kintyre had often felt his hackles rise at the measures used by Cathek.

But the Stone Hearts were nothing if not patient, and were content to bide their time until Cathek died and was replaced by his far more reasonable daughter. Tyria had obviously been unaffected by her father's insanity, and was a shrewd and dangerous young woman, dedicated to the Imperium. Tancred, one of her childhoold friends, had discussed her father's obvious flaws with her, and they had both agreed that waiting was the only prudent thing to do – if only to avoid explaining what had happened to Tyrel to the Inquisition. Tyria, as her father's favorite retainer, would handle much of her father's business, so that his madness might affect the Imperium as little as possible, and Tancred would do his best to ensure that when Cathek did force his soldiers into action, their targets would be deserving.

However, Tyrel's twisted mind had other ideas. In 993.M41 the world of Tyrhennius failed to provide an agreed upon cargo of Mandrovian dates. Tyrel declared this to be a sign of heresy and rebellion against the Imperium, and ordered the Stone Hearts to destroy planet. Tancred stepped forward, and declared in ringing tones that "The Emperor's subjects are the charges of the Adeptus Astartes and the High Lords of Terra. To strike them undeserving is to strike at the heart of the Imperium itself." Tyrel was even more surprised when Tyria announced her agreement with the Captain, and invoked her authority as commander of her father's ship to have him confined to his quarters, "for his own protection".

It was seen as a great tragedy when Tyrel hung himself later that day (or so said the notification to the High Lords). Tyria Cathek contacted the recalcitrant world and explained the tragedy, and the catastrophe which had narrowly been averted. The shipment was delivered on time.

It was an unusual break with tradition when Tyria requested the continued services of the Fourth Company, but Chapter Master Adhemar was happy to acquiesce. Ever since, relations between the Catheks and the Stone Hearts have continued in their old vein of friendship and respect.

The Duke and his capital at Longford were the only truly civilized parts of the world, and even there Imperial influence was relatively weak. The arrival of the Stone Hearts did little to change that initially, but with the Chapter's ventures into commerce Cathe has been transformed. The spaceport now hums with activity, the goods of dozens of worlds flowing in and out in the holds of ships from any number of ports. To facilitate mining and other undertakings in more remote regions of the planet, a system of roads now stretches across the glens and mountains, bringing all of Cathe into reach of the capital. Most clans, instead of spending their energies fighting each other, hire their men out as mercenaries offplanet, preferring a steady income and less risk to the cut and thrust of Cathian politics. Close to the capital clans have fallen away altogether, replaced by the far more important considerations of wealth and debt. Where once Cathe was barren, harsh and quiet, now it rumbles with the noise of commerce and trade.

The Fortress-Monastery of the Stone Hearts, now known as the Golden Hall, serves as the center of the Chapter's extensive commercial empire in addition to its military duties. The original ducal castle has been much expanded to accommodate this, both above and below ground, and its counting houses, vaults, warehouses and offices now rival the fortress proper in size and scope. At any hour of the day or night, the clink of coins and the murmur of negotiations echo through the Chapter's halls.

The people of Cathe, even as they revel in their new prosperity, long for the old ways. The loss of opportunity for raiding and skirmishing has been something of a disappointment to many, and it is common for young bravos to exhort each other with tales of the glorious golden age of warfare and honor which the crudities of trade and money have taken from the people. Though many on Cathe have come to rely more than they know on the peace and prosperity brought by the Stone Heart's commercial interests, this longing for conflict and honor still drives many Cathians to seek their fortunes off-planet as mercenaries, or even as pirates. The Stone Hearts view these tendencies as necessary to maintaining the population's viability as recruits, and so allow such excursions – though those foolish enough to turn to piracy are dealt with appropriately when they are encountered.

The population’s military tendencies are also maintained by the various Chapter Keeps which dot the highlands of Cathe. There, grizzled veteran mercenaries and Battle-Brothers long past their prime teach those youths of Cathe who wish to learn skills at arms and the discipline needed to turn a warrior into a soldier. The cities of Cathe may smelt, mine and sell, but the people of Cathe’s uplands still know the ways of sword and axe. The fire of the Cathians may be less bright now, but it has not gone out, and it burns within the Stone Hearts as it always has.

Beliefs
"Cowardice is holding back when you could win. Practicality is holding back so they will lose." - Chaplain Duriel Hawker

Above all, the Stone Hearts are practical. Their brush with starvation and dissolution early in their history has made them cautious in ways that most Space Marines are not – they are keenly aware that even Space Marines can be defeated, albeit not necessarily on the battlefield. They seldom take rash courses of action, and adopt well-balanced strategies which use the minimum force and equipment necessary to accomplish their objectives. This has on occasion resulted in disaster when an enemy or situation was underestimated, but it has generally served the Chapter well. Even the Chaplains of the Stone Hearts are relatively sedate compared to those of other chapters, and have somehow contrived to preach a more temperate zealotry.

Of course, the headstrong character of the Cathian population still rears its head in the Chapter. Every Stone Heart, despite his practicality, dreams of glory and ferocious hand-to-hand battles like those of old. Every so often the Stone Hearts will give in to their natural ferocity and charge headlong into a frontal engagement with the foe. It is a testament to the abilities of Space Marines how rarely this results in disaster.

”We get up in the black, down the warrior's road
And we hike along the track, as the dropships load
And we'll kiss our wives and sons, though we never will look back
For we'll not see them again, down the warrior's road

We hear the Chapter call, down the warrior's road
And we take our swords and all, as the dropships load
In the pods we then will drop, 'til there's nowhere else to fall
And we'll leave the stars behind us, down the warrior's road

Around another sun, down the warrior's road
We'll fight with sword and gun, as the dropships load
When extraction finally comes, we're so thankful to be gone
That we'll fight again tomorrow, down the warrior's road.”
Cathian Ballad

The Stone Hearts recognize that their embracement of trade and their dealings with the Demiurg might bring scrutiny upon them from some other, more orthodox, Imperial organizations. They are sure that any doubt that might be raised will be easily quashed by their record of service, and failing that, by pointed words and equally pointed blades.

Combat Doctrine
”Conserve your resources. Hold back your forces. No one has ever won a war by spending his strength in the first battle.” – Captain Archimedes Frasier of the Third Company

In the millennia since their arrival on Cathe, the Stone Hearts have continued to battle against the enemies of Mankind. On worlds across the Imperium they have faced down the ever-present threats of Orks, Eldar raiders, and heretical uprisings. The Chapter has also on occasion sent Battle Companies south to fight alongside their brother Astartes in the Chaos-wracked sectors around the Eye of Terror, and dispatched expeditions to the galactic north, along the rim of Imperial territory, where the light of the Astronomican can barely be felt.

The Stone Hearts favor using the minimum force required in a situation – a legacy both of their lean early years and of their increasingly mercantile nature. They have even been known to attempt to find diplomatic solutions (though often only as a cover for military preparations), or to buy off enemy armies and turn them to the service of the Imperium. Often the Chapter will settle for a somewhat prolonged engagement which takes less casualties, using fortifications and terrain to limit their casualties and ensure the destruction of the enemy. This minimal approach has sometimes resulted in temporary defeat, but the Stone Hearts always simply reevaluate the situation and react accordingly.

Like many Chapters, the Stone Hearts use equipment suited to the conditions on their home world – they favor rugged vehicles which can deal with a variety of terrain and the use of heavy firepower. They shy away from aerospace assets – in the mountains of Cathe, the only support you can trust is that on the ground with you. The Chapter's co-operation with the Drak-Dum Brotherhood has also brought them expertise in tunnel fighting and a penchant for some of the obscure artillery pieces often deployed by these aliens. This firepower is often emplaced in a strongpoint close to enemy positions, from which it rains down death until the enemy is either destroyed or moves to react – at which point more mobile Chapter forces move in.

While the Chapter's commercial network has brought them impressive wealth, many of their purchased armaments are simply not equal in quality to those of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and their domestically produced weapons are generally simpler in nature – the Chapter Techmarines did not possess the skills to allow reverse-engineering and production of items such as plasma weaponry or assault cannons. The Stone Hearts thus favor easy-to-procure and easy-to-repair weaponry, and their stores of arcane items like plasma weapons and Terminator armor are quite limited compared to other Chapters of similar age and experience.
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Rogue Trader Tyria Cathek and Captain Tancred Kintyre of the Fourth Company

Organisation
"They made one mistake. They put their fortress where we could reach it." – Captain Tancred Kintyre

The Stone Hearts adhere to the Codex Astartes, though each company is permitted to retain any unusual equipment they come across in their travels (after any necessary purification rituals have been undertaken). When combined with the Chapter's occasional practice of duelling for equipment with other forces, this has lead to some companies being rather eclectic in their armaments. However, the Chapter's formations remain entirely Codex, if only because (in keeping with their practical nature), there has not yet been any need to do otherwise.

While the Chapter remains able to produce many minor items, and supplement their production with a variety of other sources, many Astartes products are simply unavailable to them. While this has somewhat restricted their equipment, their difficulties do not seem as pronounced as one might initially expect. It is suspected by several Inquisitors that the Stone Hearts maintain surreptitious trade links with several other Chapters, which are kept concealed through layers of middlemen and staged accidents or honor duels. Many Inquisitors have speculated that the Chapter’s occasional reivings are really artfully staged trade deals, and several Chapters which have ‘suffered’ a loss to the Stone Hearts have been noted to have been more than recompensed through fortunate discoveries of ‘lost cargo’ or ‘forgotten land grants’.

Gene-seed
"Those who say we have lost our way and compromised our security by allowing merchants to roam our halls have evidently never tried to reach our gene-seed vault." - Apothecary Taran Koga

The Stone Hearts are scions of Guilleman's genetic line. Their geneseed remains pure and undegraded. The Chapter's seed is stored beneath even the banking vaults in their monastery, behind triple-secured passages which no visitor ever sees. The Stone Hearts take great care to ensure the purity of their tithes to the Adeptus Mechanicus – they will offer the Priests of Mars no excuse to cause them trouble.

The Priesthood of Mars, conversely, simply cannot be bothered to return the Chapter's enmity - though they remain obdurate on the subject of Techmarines, the Stone Hearts stopped remitting their supply requests millenia ago, and it is very possible that the incident has faded from the Mechanicus' collective memory. This apathy has resulted in the Stone Hearts' tithes being accepted without complaint on every occasion.

Battlecry
Melior quam media. - Chapter Motto

"Stone in heart! Stone in will!"

* * *

Opinions and criticism welcome. I think I've been moderately successful in updating in response to the last round of thoughts, but I'm not sure. smile.png

Suggestions for quote subjects would be very welcome.

Updated again to include revisions prompted by Shinzaren, Hrvat, Lysimachus, Ecritter and Cambrius.

Edited one more time to add in Greyall's beautiful illustrations. smile.png


Edited by Octavulg, 05 June 2016 - 02:04 AM.

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Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

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"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08


#2
Sigismund Himself

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If you take out the # before the colour code, the headers will work ;)

Cathe was a rocky world, whose hereditary Duke had recently died, leaving no legitimate heir. It was a relatively underdeveloped world, the only city of any size being the capital and only space port.

You would assume it was part of the Imperium and under Imperial control if a chapter bases itself there and it has a spaceport so why not just have a Hereditary Planetary Governor? Not this Duke business.

His support among the population was not overwhelming, but it was significant enough to make the Space Marine hold over the planet uncertain.

Less than half the population (going by 'not overwhelming') vs a Space Marine chapter? I know who I'd put my money on.

Fortunately for the planet and the chapter, the first Chapter Master, Darion Vulk, was a wise and temperate man. He offered to use his influence within the Imperium to obtain a Rogue Trader license for Tyrion. Tyrion was more than willing to trade his claims at ducal office for the chance to explore the nearest known space - especially when Vulk offered to provide a company of troops as a perpetual escort for Cathek and his heirs.


This doesn't really work. What influence does a new Chapter Master have in the Imperium? From memory and probably wrong, but wasn't a Rogue Traders charter only from the High Lords?

Also, should known be unknown (underlined above)?

Offering a company of marines is honestly too much. The chapter master would have to be an idiot. Relinquishing a full tenth of his force to just get rid of some troublesome brat. Why doesn't he just squash him? He doesn't have lots of support and the chapter could always just say he accepted and is off in the stars somewhere.

When Captain Agmentius Covven of the Fifth Company challenged Colonel Sigmund Voltar of the 88th Ottokar Rifles to a duel for a valuable cache of vehicle parts, the Colonel was intrigued.

What parts of an IG tank would work with an Astartes one?

When they left, they took with them all ten of the soldiers who had fought Agmentius. In the years since, the descendants of the 88th have provided fine Space Marines to the Chapter, and each of them has been assigned to the Fifth Company.

Does this really add anything? Expand or discard.

... ever since Vulk explained to an Adeptus Magos that the Techmarines of his chapter would be Stone Hearts first, and Adepts of Mars second.


Isn't that the normal arrangement?

Where other chapters would eliminate an entire rebellious garrison, the Stone Hearts would destroy their commanders and leaders, leaving their enemies directionless. This relatively restrained attitude met with approval among the more moderate quarters of the Imperium, while radical elements were of course shocked by this sign of weakness.

There is no moderate quarter. This is the Imperium. Please report to Airlock 10. Leaving probable heretics alive wouldn't be well received by anyone.

The Fourth Company acquired almost two dozen suits of Terminator armor from a Black Templar crusade in this fashion, and several Companies' most prized weapons did not originate with the chapter.


Honestly, you advocate killing us and now you steal from us. Next IA I write, the Ice Lords are going to be beaten up badly by my Renegade force ;)

Seriously though, I don't think that Terminator suits would be gambled by anyone. Unless there was something better/equal up for them. This would probably make a better sidebar than the other one you've got.

Duels between companies are also not unknown, and chapter treasures slowly shift from company to company as duels are fought.

I like this but why doesn't the First Company just end up with everything?

It was seen as a great tragedy when Tyrel hung himself later that day.


Really?

They have even been known to attempt to find diplomatic solutions (though often only as a cover for military preparations).


With who though? Not many races or heretics will sit down and talk terms.


What is the GW fluff on them? Maybe the Rogue Trader is the one who supplies them with items and that's why he has a company of guys.

#3
Ferrata

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Pretty good, some writing sections I don't particularly love, but then I've grown picky over the years. The only two things which I would flag for this chapter is a company of marines being handed over to someone elses control. A squad makes sense, and 10 Astartes is a damn powerful force when it comes to a Rogue Trader, whilst a Battle Company removes a quater of the chapters fighting force (not including the Veteran/Reserve companies as fighting forces). The other bit is the duels for relics/funky stuff. I doubt any chapter would bet on a chapter's relic. I can see a few bolters, maybe ammunition, but never relics. Well, unless you are stealing from the Black Templars of course, then just take their Battle Barge <_<

#4
Octavulg

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If you take out the # before the colour code, the headers will work msn-wink.gif


Wise man. It is done.

You would assume it was part of the Imperium and under Imperial control if a chapter bases itself there and it has a spaceport so why not just have a Hereditary Planetary Governor? Not this Duke business.


Because I'm a big fan of hereditary titles.

More seriously, I believe many planetary governors have titles like that. I may well be wrong. But I suspect many ruling families received an Imperial title but retained their own in common usage.

Less than half the population (going by 'not overwhelming') vs a Space Marine chapter? I know who I'd put my money on.


I do too. But dead people don't pay taxes, or provide recruits. It's so wasteful, in any case. Perhaps the boy needs more support...

This doesn't really work. What influence does a new Chapter Master have in the Imperium?


More than a know-nothing bastard son from a backwater planet?

There's only a thousand chapter masters in the whole Imperium. Methinks they have more prestige than we really give them...:D Tis a rare and important honor.

From memory and probably wrong, but wasn't a Rogue Traders charter only from the High Lords?


Yup. He enclosed a letter of recommendation with the petition, or something.

Also, should known be unknown (underlined above)?


Really, I should rethink the whole structure of that sentence. About 50% of this IA has 99% of the work, the rest was very much a rush job which I did not review too closely.

Offering a company of marines is honestly too much. The chapter master would have to be an idiot. Relinquishing a full tenth of his force to just get rid of some troublesome brat. Why doesn't he just squash him? He doesn't have lots of support and the chapter could always just say he accepted and is off in the stars somewhere.


Don't ask me. Tyrel Cathek's retinue in the Book of the Astronomicon is the full Fourth Company of the Stone Hearts. Plus some Guardsmen, IIRC.

Likely because wandering about pacifying heretics on someone else's time is more or less the same as doing it on your time. And also because the Stone Hearts tend to be a bit more...sedate than other chapters. Yes, you could kill the sort-of-rightful ruler of the planet who has the support of most of the population - but that'll make it a pretty poor homeworld. Or you could ship him off honorable, send some of your boys with him both to ensure he stays honest and to gain valuable experience and help the Imperium. One way, everyone loses. One way, everyone wins. Sure, it's the way where less people get shot, but sometimes shooting people isn't the answer. The threat of shooting people is. :P

What parts of an IG tank would work with an Astartes one?


Lots, I would have assumed. Especially if they have any Rhinos. I always had the impression IG and Astartes tank parts were fairly interchangable, if only because the Adeptus Mechanicus would copy them from the Rhino STC due to sheer lack of originality.

Does this really add anything? Expand or discard.


Er...local color?

I just wanted an example of how the honor duel thing went. It's one of those neat little things in a sidebar that add nothing, but are still kinda important.

Isn't that the normal arrangement?


What color is the Techmarines' armor? Are they all Adepts of Mars? Do the Adepts of Mars seem like the kind of folks who would accept compromised loyalty?

There is no moderate quarter. This is the Imperium. Please report to Airlock 10. Leaving probable heretics alive wouldn't be well received by anyone.


I must direct you to the 3e Codex: Space Marines. Referring to the bit with the White Panthers, and their utter destruction of a rebellious planet's PDF. The Inquisitor on the scene notes that he personally would have preferred they destroy the governor et al, and left the PDF intact.

Honestly, you advocate killing us and now you steal from us. Next IA I write, the Ice Lords are going to be beaten up badly by my Renegade force tongue.gif


Hey now. Don't go taking it out on the Ice Lords.

Besides, who *should* I beat up? There's so damn many Black Templars it really ought to be hard to take it personally. ;)

Admit it. You're the faceless extras of the Adeptus Astartes. If only there weren't so many of you...

Seriously though, I don't think that Terminator suits would be gambled by anyone. Unless there was something better/equal up for them. This would probably make a better sidebar than the other one you've got.


Possibly. I quite like the idea of Guardsmen proving their mettle and being taken with the chapter.

I like this but why doesn't the First Company just end up with everything?


Because the First Company isn't THAT much better than everyone else?

And because the other companies would often be out, thus making it hard to take their stuff.

Really?


No. Sarcasm. Lots of it. Don't slip in the puddles. ;)

With who though? Not many races or heretics will sit down and talk terms.


Rebellious forces might well. Eldar sometimes do. Tau would.

I never said it was a common occurance.

What is the GW fluff on them? Maybe the Rogue Trader is the one who supplies them with items and that's why he has a company of guys.


There isn't any. They are mentioned once in his article (well, his paragraph), and that's it.

They are blank slates, free for my meddling.

* * *

Pretty good, some writing sections I don't particularly love, but then I've grown picky over the years.


Point them out. I'm picky, too.

The only two things which I would flag for this chapter is a company of marines being handed over to someone elses control. A squad makes sense, and 10 Astartes is a damn powerful force when it comes to a Rogue Trader, whilst a Battle Company removes a quater of the chapters fighting force (not including the Veteran/Reserve companies as fighting forces).


This is a GW thing, not my own idea. Tyrel Cathek's retinue was the Fourth Company of the Stone Hearts. It's an old reference, but I don't see why it would be particularly less valid.

The other bit is the duels for relics/funky stuff. I doubt any chapter would bet on a chapter's relic. I can see a few bolters, maybe ammunition, but never relics.


Depends on what is considered a relic, I suppose. You're right - there would probably be a need to offer something in exchange for the more valuable duels. Taking on a marine with ten guardsmen when all you have to lose is some parts has a fair bit of prestige for the Guard. Offering up your Terminator armor against the chance you can whip some fellow marines...perhaps not. Of course, the BT are a little bit overconfident...and touchy...and honorable...

Well, unless you are stealing from the Black Templars of course, then just take their Battle Barge biggrin.gif


That's the spirit!

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#5
Hubernator

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Honestly, you advocate killing us and now you steal from us. Next IA I write, the Ice Lords are going to be beaten up badly by my Renegade force tongue.gif


Hey now. Don't go taking it out on the Ice Lords.

Besides, who *should* I beat up? There's so damn many Black Templars it really ought to be hard to take it personally. ;)

Admit it. You're the faceless extras of the Adeptus Astartes. If only there weren't so many of you...

Smurfs! Get the smurfs! :D

"Ahem" Not bad Octy. However I never exactly saw a chapter go all cautious and peacekeeping. I tried that and found it wouldn't work. Being Mr NiceGuy doesn;t always get you anywhere in the world, and certainly won't in the 42nd Minnellium full of heretics baying for blood and xenos ready to shred you on first site :P Against other chapters and IG, yes. Against xenos, nnnno - Tau maybe and Eldar is more like roulette ;).
Apart from that nice job.

QUOTE (StrangeGuy @ Jan 28 2010, 02:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Jonny the Space Marine)
-Don't like Vampires. If they "sparkle" though, my wife and 2 daughters just may take up 40K!

Vampires don't sparkle!!!! *ragefilledheadexplosion*

#6
Octavulg

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"Ahem" Not bad Octy. However I never exactly saw a chapter go all cautious and peacekeeping.


I'm Canadian. It comes more naturally. :D

I tried that and found it wouldn't work. Being Mr NiceGuy doesn;t always get you anywhere in the world, and certainly won't in the 42nd Minnellium full of heretics baying for blood and xenos ready to shred you on first site tongue.gif


They're not nice. They're prudent.

Remember the bit where they basically clandestinely murdered the man they're supposed to protect?

Against other chapters and IG, yes. Against xenos, nnnno - Tau maybe and Eldar is more like roulette tongue.gif.


Hey, if you're nice to the Tau they don't notice when you move into bombardment position.

Apart from that nice job.


Thankee.

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#7
Lord Solcia

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Read through it, a bit short compared to most I've seen, but I bet you're stil making adjustments. One little comment:

*Ahem* Dude, your color scheme looks almost exactly like mine! :(

Not as there's anything wrong with it, I mean, I'd be completely stupid to say this without knowing that many color schemes for chapters in 40K look very, very similar. Just seemed a bit weird to me seeing as Emperor knows how much time you've spent on my Angels IA. Wondering why you make a chapter that's theme is primarily stone, green? Wouldn't a 'boltgun metal' or 'codex grey' -ish color be more suitable?
I'll promise myself I'll finish these War Hounds, some day...

QUOTE (Silent Requiem @ Apr 28 2008, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Like the "rules lawyer", the "power gamer" also labours under the mistaken belief that 40k is competetive game. Unlike a rules lawyer (who is merely a tragic cripple), power gamers are malicious characters who enjoy humiliating others by playing to the best of their ability. Science has proven that this is because they have small [censored].

QUOTE (Solid Zaku @ Oct 12 2009, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Remember, your Primarch was actually probably Alpharius. Or Omegon. Or Alpharius AND Omegon. And the Emperor's not really the Emperor. He's Alpharius, wearing a wig. Made of Omegon.

#8
Octavulg

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Read through it, a bit short compared to most I've seen, but I bet you're stil making adjustments.


Brevity is the soul of wit. Shakespeare said that, you know. And as all modern writing must worship at the altar of Shakespeare, we must bear that in mind.

Hand in an essay that is exactly as long as it needs to be in English class. If taken to task, point that out. Watch the fireworks.


*Ahem* Dude, your color scheme looks almost exactly like mine! huh.gif


Only in that we both use green. It also looks almost exactly like the Dark Angels. :(

Take a look at the fellow in my icon. See?

Just seemed a bit weird to me seeing as Emperor knows how much time you've spent on my Angels IA.


These guys have had their color scheme for a long, long time. Any resemblance is entirely coincidental.

Though I will adjust the eye color at some point. That's just too similar.

Wondering why you make a chapter that's theme is primarily stone, green? Wouldn't a 'boltgun metal' or 'codex grey' -ish color be more suitable?


Probably. But:

A ) Defying expectations is fun.
B ) I have a very large quantity of marines in my old chapter color scheme - the same green, with brown trim and a red/white or gold/blue shoulderpad. I was hoping to repaint them with brief touchups instead of having to strip them all. I am not so lucky. However, I should be able to repaint Darius (my icon) without too much trouble. And that's what matters, since he's the first marine I ever painted.
C ) I like the green. I custom-mixed it after I could no longer find it retail. I love that green, and wanted to use it. I also wanted to use the concept of the Stone Hearts. Hence, the adoption of grey trim. The painter has not entirely captured it, honestly. I should adjust it slightly.

You'd be surprised how well green armor works with the grey. Chapter symbol is, unsurprisingly, a grey heart, which actually looks quite nice on the green field.

Edited by Octavulg, 27 May 2008 - 04:32 PM.

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#9
Brother Cambrius

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This chapter I do like very much, although as mentioned they seem al ittle "diplomatic." :P Will there be any more added to the article in the future? I can't think of any ideas for your battlecry but I'll keep trying and post it up when I know of one. ;)

Cambrius

#10
Octavulg

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This chapter I do like very much, although as mentioned they seem al ittle "diplomatic." tongue.gif


There has to be at least one group of Space Marines still capable of carrying on civil conversations...;)

Will there be any more added to the article in the future?


Hard to say. I mean, what can I really add? I could throw in a few of their notable engagements or something, maybe elaborate a bit on the homeworld or on their own beliefs, but this is really more or less where I wanted them.

I may expand beliefs and homeworld, though.

I can't think of any ideas for your battlecry but I'll keep trying and post it up when I know of one. smile.gif


Much obliged.

Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

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Help me update the Big Liber Timeline!

"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08


#11
Brother Cambrius

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Oh yeah, forgot to mention about the rightsidebar you're using, replace it with this (but whenb you go to edit it remember to edit it once and then go back to edit and click submit edit again. ;) It has a strange tendency to glitch like that.



Stone Hearts Marine in Standard Heraldry


#12
Octavulg

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Er...why don't you put that in code tags for me so I can tell what it actually does? ;) :P

Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

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Help me update the Big Liber Timeline!

"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08


#13
Ferrata

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[captionright=

[spacemarine]bpe=969696&bpj=1A4D09&bp=1A4D09&bpc=1A4D09&hdt=969696&hdm=1A4D09&hdl=1A4D09&ey=FF0000&er=1A4D09&pi=969696&nk=1A4D09&ch=1A4D09&eg=FFFFFF&sk=FFFFFF&abs=1A4D09&bt=969696&cod=1A4D09&ull=1A4D09&lk=969696&lll=1A4D09&lft=1A4D09&url=1A4D09&rk=969696&lrl=1A4D09&rft=1A4D09&slt=969696&sli=1A4D09&srt=969696&sri=1A4D09&ula=1A4D09&lel=969696&lla=1A4D09&lw=969696&lh=1A4D09&ura=1A4D09&rel=969696&rla=1A4D09&rw=969696&rh=1A4D09&bg=FFFFFF&rb=000000&gr=FFFFFF&[/spacemarine]

]Stone Hearts Marine in Standard Heraldry[/captionright]


#14
Octavulg

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Beautiful. Thank you both.

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#15
Brother Cambrius

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Battle-cry is courtesy of the erudite and helpful Brother Cambrius. :lol:


Thanks Octavulg, err forgive my lack of our wonderful and strange language but what does erudtie mean? :P

Cambrius

#16
Ferrata

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Erudtie is a bastardised form of 'a rude tie', a medieval slang for a door-to-door salesmen. Erudite means a character of great knowledge.

On the whole company thing, maybe swing it a little like this. Tyrion is granted a company for two reasons. One to get him out the way and two the chapter needed some experience anyway and this guy was going to get them into fights. Then his children will only recieve one squad of brothers. Stays with the fluff given but changes to fit better.

Edited by Ferrata, 27 May 2008 - 08:19 PM.


#17
Commissar Molotov

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The Ice Lords are temporarily on hold, as my other computer is incommunicado. Which is irksome, because I have an actual honest-to-goodness change for them that will make Molotov hate them less. :o


I'll be honest, I do hate the Ice Lords; their fluff has always been riven by contradictions and things that I just didn't like. :woot:

Now these guys show a lot more promise. They share a lot of inherent themes with the Redemptors - at the fringes of space, helping Rogue Traders, low on supplies, distant from Mars...

And despite what everyone's saying, I think that you can make a credible case for a Company of Marines serving a Rogue Trader. The Third Edition SM codex showed a company of Ultramarines in service to a Rogue Trader.

I think it shows an incredible lack of imagination for people to say that a Chapter with 'Stone' in its name needs to be grey. The Red Scorpions aren't red, after all.

I have to say that I'm not sold on the idea of duelling for equipment, though.
 
QUOTE (voi shet magir @ May 31 2011, 05:38 AM) 
That is an unexpectedly strong assertion from a dead person.

#18
Octavulg

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On the whole company thing, maybe swing it a little like this. Tyrion is granted a company for two reasons. One to get him out the way and two the chapter needed some experience anyway and this guy was going to get them into fights. Then his children will only recieve one squad of brothers. Stays with the fluff given but changes to fit better.


Except, of course, Tyrel has a company as well...so sayeth the published book. That, and I like having a full company of marines drifting about like that. It feels deliciously old-school. While a full company of Space Marines does seem like a lot in some ways, let's look at it from the perspective of Chapter Master Vulk.

If he promises a company to Tyrion and his heirs, that company gets valuable battle experience. They're only gone for about a hundred years each, and companies have gone on longer missions before. They'll be serving the will of the Emperor with Tyrion in any case. Although they're not available for a full-scale commitment in the same way, the close relationship which will doubtless develop means that, should the hordes of Chaos come ravening forth from the Eye of Terror, the Catheks will not hold their guardians back.

The Stone Hearts will gain exposure and prominence in the region - which will serve as a potent deterrent to rebels and traitors. The Stone Hearts will also be first in line to take advantage of anything Cathek discovers.

In short, in exchange for the commitment of a single company to a role remarkably similar to their standard duties, he gets a peaceful, happy planet and a chance at new and exciting technologies and a better understanding of the surrounding region. Oh, and fewer local rebellions, meaning the chapter can concentrate on things like clearing out Orks.

Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

* * *

I'll be honest, I do hate the Ice Lords; their fluff has always been riven by contradictions and things that I just didn't like. sad.gif


It's getting better, I swear it is! Really!

The stuff you may not like, not so much, but the contradictions are clearing up. I think I have finally found a way to make the stuff that happens to them and the stuff related to them work without making my ears bleed. Heck, you might even get to like the Fallen commander and the way he fights destiny so very, very hard.

I may work up the energy to sneak the stuff off my other computer. I have more free time than I planned.

And despite what everyone's saying, I think that you can make a credible case for a Company of Marines serving a Rogue Trader. The Third Edition SM codex showed a company of Ultramarines in service to a Rogue Trader.


Hah! Eat it, skeptics!

I mean...hmmm. Good point, Molotov. Tis always nice to have evidence which isn't almost as old as I am.

I think it shows an incredible lack of imagination for people to say that a Chapter with 'Stone' in its name needs to be grey. The Red Scorpions aren't red, after all.


I give into such thinking myself sometimes. That's why they have grey trim. :P

And the Red Scorpions have red helmets and such, don't they?

I have to say that I'm not sold on the idea of duelling for equipment, though.


Which bit is it that fails to sell you? The concept as a whole, or the way it is justified, or the way it is executed?

Really, it's an excuse to have Terminator armor. That, and the semi-piratical nature of it appeals to me.

Edited by Octavulg, 27 May 2008 - 10:18 PM.

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#19
TyrantKaiser

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I really like what you've done for them. The whole dueling thing sounds cool, at least to a pathetic writer like myself. :lol: I can definitely see some Scottish undertones in there, with the clans and friendly dueling (well, perhaps not the dueling) And there seems to be a lot of potential for greatness in there. The tactics of the Chapter seems to reflect what I wanted for my Knights Ignoble but failed to pull off.

What would you like to expand first?
QUOTE (WarriorFish @ Jun 16 2008, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After all, "in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war... but it's ok we're winning" isn't quite as gothic, is it? :P


#20
Octavulg

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Well, looking at it right now, there's a bit of history, some recent history, and not much else. Tis still quite skeletal.

Technically, none of the stuff there NEEDS expansion, but it all could be without too much trouble.

Obvious points for expansion would be the last couple of sections, especially homeworld and beliefs (as Molotov will espouse, should you give him half a chance, these are the soul of the chapter).

I think we should also devote some effort to working out what, exactly, we both envision the chapter as. You want a Scottish/Celtic influence - how thick do you want it? Do you think it should pervade every aspect of the chapter, or not so much? Personally, I see them as marines with a fairly Scottish/Celtic homeworld who are somewhat Imperialized by their assumption into the Chapter - but who still retain a moderate amount of their culture and a hell of a lot of their way of thinking. Sort of a Highland regiment type deal.

I'd also hoped to emphasize some of the less "insane-berzerker" aspects of Scottish warfare. Sure, they're good at screaming charges, but there's more to it than that. Screaming charges definitely have their place, but they should use them when they're needed, not just 'cause.

Also, no kilts. Just wanted to get that out of the way right now. :rolleyes:

If you like, we can do the rest of this via PM, if only for quickness and convenience.

Basically, anything you can think up, I'll cheerfully help hammer into something mutually agreeable. I'm rather short on ideas for them at the moment.

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#21
TyrantKaiser

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With Molotov being pretty much the foremost expert on DIY overall IMO, I have to agree that the most lacking parts of the IA right now are still the heart and soul of the chapter. History can be inserted however we like. But the rest reflects the chapter itself.

Well, I don't want anything like Braveheart in space, and I already like the subtle theme going on. Right now they are a chapter with hints of a Celtic heritage, but it has its own history and personality like any good chapter out there. I like that.

I do believe that a chapter like this may have a slightly deviant organization with perhaps different names for companies and squads, but not an actual change in structure. Really it comes down to how much you think the chapter is Imperialized, and according to the bit on the homeworld they come from a world with very little structure or politics. I'm guessing that some of the way that the people on the planet live has been transferred to the way these marines live, as is typical for every chapter with a home planet out there. I do have something in mind the different names, if you want to see it.

Anyways, for the beliefs, from what I gather they are Codex-adhering and have a decent connection with the rest of the Imperium, though perhaps not necessarily the Inquisition... And they are moderate in zeal, right?

Obviously if we made them all non-stop crazy and charge-y, they wouldn't be much more than Space Wolves from Scotland. Perhaps they have a relatively untapped vigor or zeal or rage which they build up until they unleash it in either the most appropriate or the most desperate situations, leading to glorious victories and gruesome defeats for both circumstances? Just brainstorming.

For that matter, what are some of the less "insane-bezerker" aspects of Scottish warfare?

Well, it takes someone really manly to pull a kilt off, and Space Marines are the epitome of manly. But if you don't want any kilts I'll oblige you! :lol:

And we can do it via PM if you want. Your choice.
QUOTE (WarriorFish @ Jun 16 2008, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After all, "in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war... but it's ok we're winning" isn't quite as gothic, is it? :P


#22
Octavulg

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With Molotov being pretty much the foremost expert on DIY overall IMO, I have to agree that the most lacking parts of the IA right now are still the heart and soul of the chapter. History can be inserted however we like. But the rest reflects the chapter itself.


'Tis always tricky to express something that is almost taken for granted.

Well, I don't want anything like Braveheart in space, and I already like the subtle theme going on. Right now they are a chapter with hints of a Celtic heritage, but it has its own history and personality like any good chapter out there. I like that.


This is good that you like this.

I do believe that a chapter like this may have a slightly deviant organization with perhaps different names for companies and squads, but not an actual change in structure.


Dunno. I went to great effort to rename companies and squads in the first DIY I had (of which there is, thankfully, no trace). IMO, it's not really worth it - I mean, the Space Wolves didn't rename much of anything of their large-scale structure, and look at how divergent they are. The smaller details changed, not the big ones.

Really it comes down to how much you think the chapter is Imperialized, and according to the bit on the homeworld they come from a world with very little structure or politics.


Little structure, yes. Little politics, I'd have to disagree. :P

I'm guessing that some of the way that the people on the planet live has been transferred to the way these marines live, as is typical for every chapter with a home planet out there.


Indeed. I kinda want...well, conflict isn't the right term, but I see almost a bit of a dual personality to every marine - there's the marine, and then there's the Cathian native. An excellent example is the boys in the Deathwing short story (which everyone should read. Twice. A copy can be located upon request). They have their identities as marines, and their identities as Plains World inhabitants.

I don't see quite the stark division that was present there, but I kind of see the marine training and outlook as a (very heavy) veneer over the Cathian within. And in some spots, the veneer's pretty thin - not even always the same spots, but in some spots. Some marines tend to be a little more hot-headed, or a bit more prone to glorious action. Some use the old language. Some are perfectly good Imperials, except they keep on referring to the Emperor by the local title for him. That sort of thing. Little things. Old-style charms on some armor. Patterns on sword-hilts. Maybe a few beliefs. Not necessarily common across the chapter, or even across a company - but all the marines are definitely products of Cathe.

How, of course, to convey this? A very good question.

I do have something in mind the different names, if you want to see it.


Might as well. :lol:

Anyways, for the beliefs, from what I gather they are Codex-adhering and have a decent connection with the rest of the Imperium, though perhaps not necessarily the Inquisition... And they are moderate in zeal, right?


Moderate to low in zeal. A quiet sort of zeal. The kind of zeal that never misses a service, but not the kind of zeal that goes on Crusades.

Perhaps they have a relatively untapped vigor or zeal or rage which they build up until they unleash it in either the most appropriate or the most desperate situations, leading to glorious victories and gruesome defeats for both circumstances? Just brainstorming.


Win big/lose big is an interesting idea. I kinda like the idea of relatively taciturn and restrained fellas who know they ought not to do stupid things but occasionally do anyway cause it looks like so much fun. Seems very Scottish. :P

For that matter, what are some of the less "insane-bezerker" aspects of Scottish warfare?


Er...Thin Red Line (debatable how Scottish it is, but it was a Highland regiment, so I'm counting it). Plus the whole thing with Wallace, which tended to rely on schiltrons a lot. And then, y'know, Bannockburn.

Every time the Scots charge (more or less), they LOSE. I prefer to go with the ones where they win. :)

Well, it takes someone really manly to pull a kilt off, and Space Marines are the epitome of manly. But if you don't want any kilts I'll oblige you! laugh.gif


Subtle Scottish influence and kilt don't go together. :P

And we can do it via PM if you want. Your choice.


Eh. If this works for you, it'll work for me.

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"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08


#23
TyrantKaiser

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'Tis always tricky to express something that is almost taken for granted.


Very true...

This is good that you like this.


This is good that this is good.

Dunno. I went to great effort to rename companies and squads in the first DIY I had (of which there is, thankfully, no trace). IMO, it's not really worth it - I mean, the Space Wolves didn't rename much of anything of their large-scale structure, and look at how divergent they are. The smaller details changed, not the big ones.


Ok. I was thinking more along the lines of little details anyways.

Little structure, yes. Little politics, I'd have to disagree.


I suppose you're right. I mean, old Scotland had a ridiculous amount of politics between the clans.

Indeed. I kinda want...well, conflict isn't the right term, but I see almost a bit of a dual personality to every marine - there's the marine, and then there's the Cathian native. An excellent example is the boys in the Deathwing short story (which everyone should read. Twice. A copy can be located upon request). They have their identities as marines, and their identities as Plains World inhabitants.

I don't see quite the stark division that was present there, but I kind of see the marine training and outlook as a (very heavy) veneer over the Cathian within. And in some spots, the veneer's pretty thin - not even always the same spots, but in some spots. Some marines tend to be a little more hot-headed, or a bit more prone to glorious action. Some use the old language. Some are perfectly good Imperials, except they keep on referring to the Emperor by the local title for him. That sort of thing. Little things. Old-style charms on some armor. Patterns on sword-hilts. Maybe a few beliefs. Not necessarily common across the chapter, or even across a company - but all the marines are definitely products of Cathe.

How, of course, to convey this? A very good question.


Well, I've always seen Marines as superhumans with severely repressed personalities and memories. The training is just a shell which is needed for a human to survive in a hostile and deadly environment: as if one was in a desert. I like to think that, deep down, there's a little conscience crying out in suffering for being nearly murdered with psycho-conditioning, and that the sub-conscience of the marine is very, very angry at the Imperium and the marine himself for serving it. The human aspect can be repressed, but the fact remains that a human's personality cannot be destroyed no matter what is done. Which shows how all marines are quite different from one another on a very core level. And because one's home is a part of you, these core traits will still remain even in the middle of war. Thus, one's home is very much a part of marines, but in a very deep down sense. A little wordy, but do you get what I mean?

Conveying such a thing would be as simple as describing a Stone Hearts' daily lifestyle and practices, to writing a piece of fluff which talks a bit about it, to even having pictures of marines with little deviant symbols or unique features on armor.

Might as well.


Well, I don't have a really organized chart or anything, and it's not really big, but I was thinking something along these lines: Each company is called a clan, and each squad in each company is called a warband. That's really it.

Moderate to low in zeal. A quiet sort of zeal. The kind of zeal that never misses a service, but not the kind of zeal that goes on Crusades.


So a reserved chapter, not a frothing-at-the-mouth-kill-the-xeno/heretic-and-then-pray-and-fast-for-100-days-kind of chapter. I get it. Despite criticism from more zealous or puritanical chapters and factions, the Stone Hearts are not any less faithful than the Black Templars, right?

Win big/lose big is an interesting idea. I kinda like the idea of relatively taciturn and restrained fellas who know they ought not to do stupid things but occasionally do anyway cause it looks like so much fun. Seems very Scottish.


Yeah, I was thinking something like that. When they just can't help it anymore, they may just laugh in the face of a warboss and take him on single-handedly with no weapons because they really just want a damn good fight. Very Scottish indeed. Perhaps barfights in times of peace are rather frequent? ;)

Er...Thin Red Line (debatable how Scottish it is, but it was a Highland regiment, so I'm counting it). Plus the whole thing with Wallace, which tended to rely on schiltrons a lot. And then, y'know, Bannockburn.

Every time the Scots charge (more or less), they LOSE. I prefer to go with the ones where they win.


Yeah, I was wondering why they charge so much when they just keep losing. Braveheart really got it wrong, no? :)

Anyways, I regretfully admit I have no knowledge of these things. But thanks to teh holy Interwebz, I can look it up in an instant. I'll get back to you on that.

Subtle Scottish influence and kilt don't go together.



Who says? We could just say plaid man-skirts! ;)

Eh. If this works for you, it'll work for me.


Then PMing it is. I guess we can start after this. I would send this in a PM but I'm just a little too lazy ;)
QUOTE (WarriorFish @ Jun 16 2008, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After all, "in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war... but it's ok we're winning" isn't quite as gothic, is it? :P


#24
Imperialis_Dominatus

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I like this. Would like to see more expansion. Nothing here really bugs me.

I actually like how they got equipment. Very unorthodox. ;)

This signature to remain blank as a mark of penance following my long exile, to be redeemed by the creation of worthwhile content and the reclamation of my good name.


#25
Octavulg

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Going to give it a bit of revision to make it more complete. Got quite a few ideas out of TyrantKaiser, before he vanished from the planet.

And the equipment idea is at minimum inspired by the Clans. At most, it's blatantly stolen.

Hopefully, the next draft will be more Celtic, more Mariney and more unique all at once.

Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

The Octaguide - Your very long guide to very long IAs

Help me update the Big Liber Timeline!

"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08






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