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IA: Stone Hearts MkII

Octavulg UM Loyalist IA 6th Founding

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#26
Brother Cambrius

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Ooh, Celtic you say? A good place to get a little inspiration would be Philip S.'s site as he based a chapter off the celtic traditions (which I didn't influence :D). As a proud celtican I can provide some history and other tidbits of knowledge that might help you.

It's good to see these guys alive again. I so hope for the day when this becomes archived for all eternity in the Librarium. ;)

I look forward to the update,

Cambrius

PS: Thanks for the friend addition. :D

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#27
Imperialis_Dominatus

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Hello, ancient thread. I am here to drag you kicking and screaming from page over 9000 of the Liber.

Hopefully, the next draft will be more Celtic, more Mariney and more unique all at once.


And then the next draft never happened.

Anyway.

A whole Company sounds very generous, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Would be good to see this reasoning worked into the article a little more so those of us who are like all "a whole COMPANY? <_< " are a little less so.

"Radical elements" I think, in your origins section, would be better written as "puritans" or "die hards" or something similar. "Radical" conjures images of, say, Quixos, in this day and age of expanded Inquisition factions.

Have you considered moving some Origins material to the Home World section and then having the Later History section after? I did this with my main attempt recently and it helped make all three sections flow better, and in this case would make all three more substantial.

Combat Doctrine could use some example battles, and also the reactions from these "radical elements" of yours.

I still like the honor duels for loot approach.

Stone Heart: "Say there, I bet you that sword I can beat you in fisticuffs"

Black Templar, frothing with rage: "OH DO YOU NOW? I'M GONNA KICK YOUR ASS, AND THEN I'M GONNA TAKE YOUR SWORD, SO THE-" *whap thunk smack*

Bystander: "Haha, told."

I can't really think of any way to expand the Organization section. I mean, it's very direct.

Temperate zealotry is a phrase I found interesting. Indeed, these are the most reasonable Marines I've seen since... well... the Reasonable Marines.

Where do they put their geneseed? How do they protect it? What beliefs do they adhere to about it (i.e. do they think that their spirits live on in the geneseed and thus there is no reason to fear death, like many Chapters, etc.)?

All I've got for now.

This signature to remain blank as a mark of penance following my long exile, to be redeemed by the creation of worthwhile content and the reclamation of my good name.


#28
Octavulg

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Hello, ancient thread. I am here to drag you kicking and screaming from page over 9000 of the Liber.


Be rough. It likes it.

And then the next draft never happened.


What have you heard!?!?!?!?!?!

Actually, the next draft has been caught up in the tension of me wanting to tell a love story involving one of the Captains and my better judgment alternately trying to talk me out of it and trying to come up with ways to do it well.

A whole Company sounds very generous, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Would be good to see this reasoning worked into the article a little more so those of us who are like all "a whole COMPANY? ohmy.gif " are a little less so.


You can all go read C:SM 3e, as Molotov pointed out so many moons ago. ;)

The justification in the later part of the IA will be a lot deeper - they'll owe the Catheks big.

"Radical elements" I think, in your origins section, would be better written as "puritans" or "die hards" or something similar. "Radical" conjures images of, say, Quixos, in this day and age of expanded Inquisition factions.


But "radical elements" conjures images of thought police and protest-branded-treachery! :P

Have you considered moving some Origins material to the Home World section and then having the Later History section after? I did this with my main attempt recently and it helped make all three sections flow better, and in this case would make all three more substantial.


I find the best thing to in such situations is just to bite the bullet, explain a minimal amount of the home world to move the plot, and devote the home world section to neat little details.

Combat Doctrine could use some example battles, and also the reactions from these "radical elements" of yours.


Damn right it could. And when I have some, I'll get right on it. ;)

I still like the honor duels for loot approach.


I do myself. I'm not sure if I'm keeping it, but I think I may. Though it'll likely change a little in nature.

Stone Heart: "Say there, I bet you that sword I can beat you in fisticuffs"

Black Templar, frothing with rage: "OH DO YOU NOW? I'M GONNA KICK YOUR ASS, AND THEN I'M GONNA TAKE YOUR SWORD, SO THE-" *whap thunk smack*

Bystander: "Haha, told."


Oh, I wanna. I wanna a LOT. :P

Temperate zealotry is a phrase I found interesting. Indeed, these are the most reasonable Marines I've seen since... well... the Reasonable Marines.


They were reasonable Marines, those Reasonable Marines.

Where do they put their geneseed? How do they protect it? What beliefs do they adhere to about it (i.e. do they think that their spirits live on in the geneseed and thus there is no reason to fear death, like many Chapters, etc.)?


With the latest bent the Chapter is taking, inside the vaults. With the money.

Oh, people are going to think I'm crazy. :P

All I've got for now.


More than I had before. ^_^ I'll try writing some stuff up this week. They're going in something of a different direction, and may well become as crowded as the Ice Lords.

This could be fun...;)

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#29
Argon

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You can all go read C:SM 3e, as Molotov pointed out so many moons ago. :P



See, I knew I bought that book for a reason! ^_^

For those of you that don't have it, used-book stores like Half-Price Books are your best friend.



But "radical elements" conjures images of thought police and protest-branded-treachery! ;)


I have to agree with Mr. Imperialis here.



I do myself. I'm not sure if I'm keeping it, but I think I may. Though it'll likely change a little in nature.


You should keep it. It adds a nice touch to them.


They were reasonable Marines, those Reasonable Marines.


Indeed they were. Nothing like those Angry Marines. Those guys seem to be always angry all the time.



Oh, people are going to think I'm crazy. :P


What makes you think we don't already?
QUOTE (1000heathens @ Sep 8 2010, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
'A Loyalist Marine once tried to best me. I ate his gene-seed with some fava beans and a nice chianti.'


I have a blog now! You should look at it!

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#30
Octavulg

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What makes you think we don't already?


Good point.

The next draft is up. ;) I think it's pretty good. Suggestions for expansion and critiques of course are welcome.

Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

The Octaguide - Your very long guide to very long IAs

Help me update the Big Liber Timeline!

"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08


#31
Imperialis_Dominatus

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They use the artillery guns of the Drak-Dum Brotherhood, who are described as aliens. Am I interpreting that right?

Otherwise, even better than before. You see, this project isn't dead.

This signature to remain blank as a mark of penance following my long exile, to be redeemed by the creation of worthwhile content and the reclamation of my good name.


#32
Octavulg

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Well, the Brotherhood manufactures the guns for them. But yeah, basically.

Also, give me more feedback, damn you. :)

Edited by Octavulg, 25 April 2010 - 12:40 PM.

Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

The Octaguide - Your very long guide to very long IAs

Help me update the Big Liber Timeline!

"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08


#33
Apothete

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Now I know how a diabetic feels when too much sugar hits their system... Comma shock!

As a general note on the article itself, I'm finding myself actually astonished that it sounds too formal overall. The approach seems to be correct and you clearly explain yourself in most places, but the feel of the text seems to be a bit dry. That's especially worrying since I think you have a fascinating theme which ought to be capturing the hearts and minds of the nation, rather than leaving me feeling just a little turned off by the wording.

It's a good concept, the execution is generally apt and clear, but you do have some issues. As seems to have become my way, I'll be commenting while specifically ignoring what others have had to say so far.

The Stone Hearts are products of the Sixth Founding. Upon their formal activation as a Chapter, they journeyed to the home world which had been assigned to them, the tiny planet of Cathe, in the north west of the Segmentum Obscurus. Cathe was a grey, rocky world, whose hereditary Duke had recently died, leaving no legitimate heir. The planet was relatively underdeveloped, the only city of any size being the capital, which housed the planet's only space port. The Chapter took the ducal castle as their fortress monastery, expanding, refitting and redesigning until it (and the dungeons beneath it) were a fortress worthy of the Space Marines. Most of Cathe's population were hardy clansmen, accustomed to fighting for goods, honor, and land. These doughty warriors made excellent recruits for the chapter.


The sheer number of subclauses here is astounding and, while the information presented is probably important enough to remain, it probably ought to be cleaned up somewhat so that people aren't being drowned in punctuation.

Yes, I just criticized subclauses with another subclause.

There was one small problem with Cathe. Much of Cathe's populace resented the transition to Space Marine rule, and a number of the local nobles had nursed this resentment in hopes of somehow rebelling and taking control of the planet for themselves. This resistance had coalesced behind the person of young Tyrion Cathek, the Duke's bastard son, despite his personal apathy toward the rebellion. His support among the population was significant enough to make revolt a distinct possibility, and rebellion would mean that the Stone Hearts must either leave or suppress this challenge to their authority, which would greatly damage the planet's capabilities as a base for recruitment. Neither option was acceptable to Chapter Master Darion Vulk, who chose a third course of action.


This is a prime example of the stilted tone I was referring to.

Aside from that, I'm not really all that certain that a Chapter would just leave a planet rather than putting down anything that even hinted at rebellion. What happened to their pride? Their certainty? Their belief in advancing and protecting Imperial culture? Turning away from the world just because some landed nobles feel that they have more of a right to run the place doesn't seem like the kind of thing that the Astartes would be prone to considering. This portion could do with either a removal or further expansion, to my mind.

Vulk offered to use his influence within the Imperium to help Tyrion obtain a Rogue Trader license. The brash and foppish young Tyrion was more than willing to trade his claims at ducal office for the chance to explore new worlds and stars - especially when Vulk offered to provide a company of troops as a perpetual escort for Cathek and his heirs. Tyrion left Cathe for the stars, and the Third Company went with him as his bodyguards – and to watch him closely. Ever since, one of the Stone Heart Battle Companies has escorted whichever scion of the Cathek family currently holds the commission to trade in the region, each mustering out upon the death of their charge. The Catheks have only rarely returned to Cathe, though the population still holds the memory of the Dukes closely in their hearts


This. is. cool.

Quite aside from the ideas which you then hang from this point, just the idea of getting rid of the problem by sticking the kid on a starship and telling him to get lost is plain awesome - in the good sense. My only gripe is that I think committing an entire company is probably a bit on the excessive side, especially if the real purpose of the deal is to Tyrion to take a hike rather than to make sure that he lives through his exile.

Vulk concluded that the Stone Hearts would have to turn outside the traditional methods of the Adeptus Astartes in order to survive. He consulted with Tyrion Cathek, whose foppishness and brashness had grown into an appreciation for the arts of trading and commerce and an equal willingness to enforce the dictates of the Emperor. Vulk had expected that Tyrion would recommend some alternate sources for materiel and equipment which would sustain the Chapter until Vulk could determine some method of restoring the Mechanicus' favor. What Vulk got was a prolonged dissertation on the commercial possibilities of the surrounding sectors, and an equally long list of potential sources for starship parts, weapons, munitions, cogitators, and the sort of goods that would be wanted in trade. The stunned Chapter Master could only watch as Cathek sketched out a comprehensive plan by which the existing resources and assets of the Stone Hearts could be parlayed into formidable wealth – wealth sufficient to ensure that the Stone Hearts could be ever-ready to enforce the Emperor's will.


While a part of me has to just clap its hands and squeal in glee over the idea of trade-mongering Marines that find an alternate path which is at least somewhat viable, I do have to confess that I find it likely that the Imperium would look dimly upon this endeavor should it come to greater exposure. Since it inevitably will be discovered, if it hasn't already, there needs to be some kind of acknowledgement that what the Stone Hearts are about could be construed as empire building by unrthodox means. This is tolerated in the Ultramarines and perhaps other Chapters which are either old enough to demand respect or secretive enough to hide what they're up to, but it smacks of power grabs and influence that the Marines just aren't meant to have.

How are they going to avoid Inquisitorial scrutiny, especially if the line Brothers are wielding weapons that aren't general issue to the Astartes? What prevents the Adeptus Mechanicus from reporting that the Chapter is functioning, as they obviously are, without proper supply from the Forgeworlds? Even the embarassment of having the fued discovered would probably be outweighed by turning in an overly-ambitious attempt to create a separate government (the Mechanicus' view, not mine).

On Drak-Dum, they made contact with a Brotherhood of the Demiurg – and in exchange for cleansing several nests of Orks and the concession of mineral rights on Cathe's barren antarctic continent, they secured a steady stream of processed ores and munitions and technical advice from the Brotherhood's wisest craftsmen.


Oh great, your Chapter's now doomed to be eaten by the Tyranids. They've had contact with Totally Not the Squats, No Really, These Aren't Dwarves In Space.

Cue Games Workshop legal in three, two, one...

More seriously, the cooperation with a race that is abhuman in the most forgiving of eyes and outright xenos in the majority's opinion, probably won't help matters whenever the confrontation comes down. I realize that you've stated that the Stone Hearts believe that they will meet that eventually day with blade in hand, but dealing in proscribed technologies just because the Mechanicus had a fit seems a little extreme.

Though only a few duels are fought every decade, each one is viewed with interest by the whole Chapter, and seen as a mark of the warrior spirit of the Chapter.


Chapter, Chapter...

Otherwise, I like the sidebar. Thank you for having them lose a few of the challenges, too. You might want to consider going back through it for subclauses, since you manage to pack in quite a bit of parenthetical pontificating.

The Stone Hearts recognize that their embracement of trade and their dealings with the Demiurg might bring scrutiny upon them from some other, more orthodox, Imperial organizations.


As far as I know, embracement is a noun.

"They made one mistake. They put their fortress where we could reach it." – Captain Tancred Kintyre


This would perhaps be better as something like: They made one mistake, putting their fortress where we could reach it.

Even for dramatic effect, I'm not often a fan of repetition.

Edited by Apothete, 27 April 2010 - 05:36 AM.

You just had to look around you, Grey Knight, and you'd have seen it. What is Chaos? Suffering, you might say. Oppression. Deceit. But could not all of these things be said of your Imperium?
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#34
Octavulg

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Now I know how a diabetic feels when too much sugar hits their system... Comma shock!


Nyah!

As a general note on the article itself, I'm finding myself actually astonished that it sounds too formal overall. The approach seems to be correct and you clearly explain yourself in most places, but the feel of the text seems to be a bit dry. That's especially worrying since I think you have a fascinating theme which ought to be capturing the hearts and minds of the nation, rather than leaving me feeling just a little turned off by the wording.


I know what you mean. Some bits were awkward to write. And when I get awkward, I get formal and dry. It's my innate Britishness coming to the fore.

It will improve. If it knows what's good for it.

The sheer number of subclauses here is astounding and, while the information presented is probably important enough to remain, it probably ought to be cleaned up somewhat so that people aren't being drowned in punctuation.

Yes, I just criticized subclauses with another subclause.


Hypocrisy is the hallmark of good criticism. :P

Aside from that, I'm not really all that certain that a Chapter would just leave a planet rather than putting down anything that even hinted at rebellion. What happened to their pride? Their certainty? Their belief in advancing and protecting Imperial culture? Turning away from the world just because some landed nobles feel that they have more of a right to run the place doesn't seem like the kind of thing that the Astartes would be prone to considering. This portion could do with either a removal or further expansion, to my mind.


It's more that killing half the population of your home world two weeks into your tenure as lords doesn't reflect well on you in the eyes of your superiors, and also tends to make your home world less useful. Not least because people don't really want to be Space Marines after you kill all their relatives.

It's not that they couldn't deal with a rebellion, it's that a rebellion would make the place useless as a home world.

This. is. cool.

Quite aside from the ideas which you then hang from this point, just the idea of getting rid of the problem by sticking the kid on a starship and telling him to get lost is plain awesome - in the good sense. My only gripe is that I think committing an entire company is probably a bit on the excessive side, especially if the real purpose of the deal is to Tyrion to take a hike rather than to make sure that he lives through his exile.


I think of it as turning a problem into an asset. Now he owes them something.

Also, sending a company around with him is a combination "sorry about the way you don't have a planet/don't you dare do anything we won't like/well we're going to have to patrol anyway". Just to be clear here.

While a part of me has to just clap its hands and squeal in glee over the idea of trade-mongering Marines that find an alternate path which is at least somewhat viable, I do have to confess that I find it likely that the Imperium would look dimly upon this endeavor should it come to greater exposure. Since it inevitably will be discovered, if it hasn't already, there needs to be some kind of acknowledgement that what the Stone Hearts are about could be construed as empire building by unrthodox means. This is tolerated in the Ultramarines and perhaps other Chapters which are either old enough to demand respect or secretive enough to hide what they're up to, but it smacks of power grabs and influence that the Marines just aren't meant to have.


Possibly. I admit, most of the examples I can point to are First Founding. The Raven Guard have Deliverance, the Ultramarines have their Empire, the Dark Angels and Space Wolves apparently have had a few wars over various holdings, including some very nice gem mines (old Epic fluff). And it's not empire building. It's empire buying.

You're right. This would attract some attention/scrutiny. Of course, everything does. Still. There will be action.

How are they going to avoid Inquisitorial scrutiny, especially if the line Brothers are wielding weapons that aren't general issue to the Astartes? What prevents the Adeptus Mechanicus from reporting that the Chapter is functioning, as they obviously are, without proper supply from the Forgeworlds? Even the embarassment of having the fued discovered would probably be outweighed by turning in an overly-ambitious attempt to create a separate government (the Mechanicus' view, not mine).


Actually, I'd figured they simply expanded their own production facilities for most things. Big things might be contracted out, and they might buy things they liked the look of, but they still have bolters, etc. There's likely a lot of assembly facilities on Cathe, actually, with lots of different factories across their realm producing pieces of the things they need. Keeps the secrets firmly under their control (and also prevents a bad production run from going unnoticed).

Oh great, your Chapter's now doomed to be eaten by the Tyranids. They've had contact with Totally Not the Squats, No Really, These Aren't Dwarves In Space.

Cue Games Workshop legal in three, two, one...

More seriously, the cooperation with a race that is abhuman in the most forgiving of eyes and outright xenos in the majority's opinion, probably won't help matters whenever the confrontation comes down. I realize that you've stated that the Stone Hearts believe that they will meet that eventually day with blade in hand, but dealing in proscribed technologies just because the Mechanicus had a fit seems a little extreme.


Because the denizens of the 40K universe are always moderate in their dealings... ;) And the Rogue Trader's doing the dealing (or at least some of it). Rogue Traders are allowed to do that sort of thing. Fair point, though. Will clarify/revise appropriately.

Perhaps they plan to become too big to fail?

In fact, I am now 100% sure they intend to become too big to fail.

Otherwise, I like the sidebar. Thank you for having them lose a few of the challenges, too. You might want to consider going back through it for subclauses, since you manage to pack in quite a bit of parenthetical pontificating.


Parenthetical pontificating produces powerful prose.

As far as I know, embracement is a noun.


Then what's the appropriate/conjugation tense of embrace?

* * *

Thanks very much. :)

Will likely poke away at it a little today, and buckle down to it on Wednesday.

Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

The Octaguide - Your very long guide to very long IAs

Help me update the Big Liber Timeline!

"Wake up. Pray. Train. Pray. Drop screaming through the atmosphere from low orbit into a raging battlefield, and take the fight to enemies that may outnumber us by as little as three to one. Do battle with the most horrific enemies of mankind imaginable and charge into lines of weapons that could shred a tank into ribbons. Afterward, lunch, time permitting." - Marshal Arturas, 15/05/08


#35
Apothete

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I know what you mean. Some bits were awkward to write. And when I get awkward, I get formal and dry. It's my innate Britishness coming to the fore.

It will improve. If it knows what's good for it.


If you like, I could go through and pick out the parts which are particularly dry and make a few suggestions on the subject of tone. I'm loathe to do so because our writing styles don't entirely mesh, but it could at least provide some counterpoint for you to work from when you do your own revisions.

It's more that killing half the population of your home world two weeks into your tenure as lords doesn't reflect well on you in the eyes of your superiors, and also tends to make your home world less useful. Not least because people don't really want to be Space Marines after you kill all their relatives.

It's not that they couldn't deal with a rebellion, it's that a rebellion would make the place useless as a home world.


I see your point but the implication, at least to me, wasn't that they would rather keep the good will of the High Lords and the populace so much as it was that they'd run away if things got complicated. That's clearly not what you were going for, so I commented on it.

Also, sending a company around with him is a combination "sorry about the way you don't have a planet/don't you dare do anything we won't like/well we're going to have to patrol anyway". Just to be clear here.


Perhaps you could be a touch more explicit on that point, then?

It's not a bad motive and it melds into the themes that you were building up. My problem is that it doesn't necessarily call to mind the impression that you wanted to give right off the bat, since the connection between favors and the assignation just didn't click. Then again, I was reading this fairly late last night, as I recall...

Possibly. I admit, most of the examples I can point to are First Founding. The Raven Guard have Deliverance, the Ultramarines have their Empire, the Dark Angels and Space Wolves apparently have had a few wars over various holdings, including some very nice gem mines (old Epic fluff). And it's not empire building. It's empire buying.

You're right. This would attract some attention/scrutiny. Of course, everything does. Still. There will be action.


Pretty much.

The only examples I can think of where a Chapter had significant resources that went beyond their usual remit are all First Founding, which is a point that I intend to write into the Liber Omnis thread. An unusual posession that is owned or managed by one of those august bodies is more explicable and understandable due to their great age, influence, and the fact that they predate the agreements which later limited the power and scope of Astartes. I think that it could still be convincingly argued in your case, else I would have been clawing my way up the wall like I do when something comes up here which makes absolutely no sense.

Actually, I'd figured they simply expanded their own production facilities for most things. Big things might be contracted out, and they might buy things they liked the look of, but they still have bolters, etc. There's likely a lot of assembly facilities on Cathe, actually, with lots of different factories across their realm producing pieces of the things they need. Keeps the secrets firmly under their control (and also prevents a bad production run from going unnoticed).


Here's my big issue with this part of things, though...

The Mechanicus is solely responsible for technology and manufacturing, whether directly in the form of their Forgeworlds or indirectly through their maintenance and control of patterns, training, and certification. As such, these factories which the Stone Hearts have access to would likely still be under at least nominal supervision by the AdMech, through the fraternity of their techpriests, the sources of their schematics, and so on. Additionally, factories which produce Astartes-standard components are probably going to be more closely watched than those which are stamping out lasguns, perhaps even to the degree that only the manufactorum of the various Chapters and the Mechanicus are likely to be capable of creating anything but the most basic munitions - bolt shells, grenades, combat blades, and so on.

Things like Land Speeders, Land Raiders, Dreadnoughts, Terminator Armor, and anything other than the most basic Rhino chassis are probably going to be out of their reach without some interesting plot judo on your part.

Perhaps they plan to become too big to fail?

In fact, I am now 100% sure they intend to become too big to fail.


The Bear-Stearns Hearts?

Then what's the appropriate/conjugation tense of embrace?


Personally, I'd skip the issue and cut the line to: The Stone Hearts recognize that embracing trade and dealing with the Demiurg might bring scrutiny upon them from some other, more orthodox, Imperial organizations.

Thanks very much.


You could at least have given me more to tear into.

Harumph.
You just had to look around you, Grey Knight, and you'd have seen it. What is Chaos? Suffering, you might say. Oppression. Deceit. But could not all of these things be said of your Imperium?
-Ghargatuloth, Prince of a Thousand Faces, Grey Knights.

The Exonerators Index Astartes WIP + The Inscrutable Index Traitoris WIP + The Black Friars Index Astartes WIP


#36
Ace Debonair

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I just read this. I'll be honest, I was mostly checking to see if I'd accidentally ripped off more than the name of your chapter with my Stonebound. :lol:

I almost wish that I had ripped them off. It's very good.

Only bit that didn't make sense to me was;

The people of Cathe, even as they revel in their new prosperity, long for the old ways. The loss of opportunity for raiding and skirmishing has been something of a disappointment to many, and it is common for young bravos to exhort each other with tales of the glorious golden age of warfare and honor which the crudities of trade and money have taken from the people. Though many on Cathe have come to rely more than they know on the peace and prosperity brought by the Stone Heart's commercial interests, this longing for conflict and honor still drives many Cathians to seek their fortunes off-planet as mercenaries, or even as pirates. The Stone Hearts view these tendencies as necessary to maintaining the population's viability as recruits, and so allow such excursions – though those foolish enough to turn to piracy are dealt with appropriately when they are encountered. The fire of the Cathians may be less bright now, but it has not gone out, and it burns within the Stone Hearts as it always has.


I'm not sure how that makes for good recruits, unless it's children going off-world as mercenaries.
There's also no guarantee that said mecenaries will ever come home again, and you've already comitted to killing off the pirates.

Surely there'd be some sort of planetary military academy or something for folks to go to and use up their aggression in?
Especially if you want hints at empire-building - the more armed soldiers the better, right? ;)

Also, on balance, it seems I'm one of the few people who doesn't think comitting a whole company, in the circumstances, isn't overkill.
But then, nobody's brought it up in a while, so it's probably generally accepted by now anyway. ;)

#37
voi shet magir

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unless it's children going off-world as mercenaries.

If they fight well, they have babies.

There could be military academies, but if the society revolves mostly around poetry slams, the average cadet is going to be less beefy and cunning. Maybe the ScrabbleMarines?

#38
Octavulg

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Ace:

I just read this. I'll be honest, I was mostly checking to see if I'd accidentally ripped off more than the name of your chapter with my Stonebound. laugh.gif


For a brief period, they were going to be a dwarven Chapter. Hence the Demiurg.

Now, I'm glad I didn't take them in that direction, but you're closer than you know. ;)

I almost wish that I had ripped them off. It's very good.


Yay!

I'm not sure how that makes for good recruits, unless it's children going off-world as mercenaries.
There's also no guarantee that said mecenaries will ever come home again, and you've already comitted to killing off the pirates.


Like voi said, the intent is to create something of a culture of warfare.

You're right about planetary military academy, though. Will add one, and thus there'll be kids training to go offworld in all kinds of methods, and the Marines can scoop them up every so often.

Perhaps decentralized Chapter Keeps through the mountains and the glens, with one old Marine each and a few Serfs.

Oh my. I like that. I like that a lot...

Also, on balance, it seems I'm one of the few people who doesn't think comitting a whole company, in the circumstances, isn't overkill.
But then, nobody's brought it up in a while, so it's probably generally accepted by now anyway. happy.gif


The secret is to beat people with the idea until it becomes lodged in their brains. ^_^

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#39
Apothete

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You're right about planetary military academy, though. Will add one, and thus there'll be kids training to go offworld in all kinds of methods, and the Marines can scoop them up every so often.

Perhaps decentralized Chapter Keeps through the mountains and the glens, with one old Marine each and a few Serfs.

Oh my. I like that. I like that a lot...


Oh, great... Astartes retirement villages.

No glorious death in battle, no great sagas about their valorous last stand. Instead, they get to go listen to a bunch of snot-nosed kids who whine about how they have to practice too hard. Why, they don't even know about that trade deal we had to broker with the Archprelate of Killarn VI just to get the damn shoestrings that are keeping his boots on, or how old Joran over there managed to best forty of his best mean to cement a better price.
You just had to look around you, Grey Knight, and you'd have seen it. What is Chaos? Suffering, you might say. Oppression. Deceit. But could not all of these things be said of your Imperium?
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#40
Octavulg

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And it was uphill both ways back to the dropship. :P

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#41
Apothete

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And it was uphill both ways back to the dropship. :P


"Yeah, we know, grandad. In the snow, with no legs..."

"Legs? Stumps are posh. We did it on our eyelashes!"
You just had to look around you, Grey Knight, and you'd have seen it. What is Chaos? Suffering, you might say. Oppression. Deceit. But could not all of these things be said of your Imperium?
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#42
Imperialis_Dominatus

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I don't know if you care, but James Swallow mentions a Stone Heart in his book Black Tide. Not in detail, really, though he notes something about intricate tattoos.

Then again, it is James Swallow.

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#43
Octavulg

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Updated with a revision to the second draft. Thoughts welcome.

Proud author of the Ice Lords, the Bronze Prophets, the Stone Hearts, the Steel Dogs and the The Marines Tenebric.

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#44
Shinzaren

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"When all else has failed, stone will still serve."

This is just me, but this seems rather clunky. I personally like:
"When all else has failed, stone still serves." or
"When all else fails, stone serves."
The current wording just seems...off to me. I dunno if I am communicating that clearly or not.

Men of Cathe, oh stand ye steady
It cannot be ever said ye
For the battle were not ready
Stand and never yield.
-Cathian hymn

As a hymn I think this should be wrapped in quotations, and if it isn't the entire hymn could possibly be proceeded and followed with an ellipses, to demonstrate that it is an excerpt.

The Stone Hearts are products of the Sixth Founding. Upon their formal activation as a Chapter they journeyed to the home world which had been assigned to them, the tiny planet of Cathe in the north west of the Segmentum Obscurus.


I'm not entirely familiar with this, but do Space Marines have their planets assigned? I thought that was their choice on where to settle?

Cathe was a grey, rocky world, whose hereditary Duke had recently died, leaving no legitimate heir.

If it is part of the Imperium, why isn't a Planetary Governor installed? Or are the Stone Hearts sent to make it a part of the Imperium? If the former is true, if heredity an issue? I thought it was an appointment, not something inherited. If the latter is true, then forget I said anything :)

The planet was relatively underdeveloped, and it's only city of any size was the capital, which housed the planet's only space port. The Chapter took the ducal castle as their fortress monastery, expanding and refitting until it (and the dungeons beneath it) were a fortress worthy of the Space Marines. Most of Cathe's population were hardy clansmen, accustomed to fighting for goods, honor, and land, and these doughty warriors made excellent recruits for the chapter.


What is the tech level of this world? If it has a space port, I would assume development is fairly advanced. Or is the capital relatively so, and the rest of the world far more primitive? If it is, then it makes sense, but as it reads, they are advanced enough to have a space port, but they still operate in clans, which isn't a problem, I just think more primitive when I hear the word clan.

There was one small problem with Cathe. Much of Cathe's populace resented the transition to Space Marine rule, and a number of the local nobles had nursed this resentment in hopes of somehow rebelling and taking control of the planet for themselves.

Why not just surgically remove the nobles? I would assume without the financial and political support of these leaders, rebellion would either fade away, or be significantly reduced in threat level. "Cut off the head..."

The Catheks have only rarely returned to Cathe, though the population still holds the memory of the Dukes closely in their hearts.


How long ago did this happen? This sentence doesn't seem to add much, and seems a bit odd. Are they folk heroes? Legends? It seems like the Dukes, even if they were hugely popular in their time, would have faded quickly when compared to the Might and Grandeur of a Space Marine Chapter. That could just be me though, it kinda jumped out at me.

Vulk, I think this is going to be the beginning of a beautiful friendship. – Tyrion Cathek

Perhaps this should be wrapped in quotations, as it is a quote? Though perhaps not, since you used the hyphen to denote ownership. I'm just being nitpicky.

A few brief decades later, the Chapter was on the brink of disintegration

.
Disintegration is a pretty serious word. I don't have a good alternative, but this seems excessive to me. Even if they are starved for material, they would just disappear into nothingness? Or perhaps I'm being overly analytical.

He consulted with Tyrion Cathek, whose foppishness and brashness had grown into an appreciation for the arts of trading and commerce and an equal willingness to enforce the dictates of the Emperor

.
The last part of the sentence seems a bit out of place. He goes from a dandy to a legitimate and skilled trader. That I can buy. What does a trader have to do with enforcing Imperial dictates and law?

Vulk had expected that Tyrion would recommend some alternate sources for materiel and equipment which would sustain the Chapter until Vulk could determine some method of restoring the Mechanicus' favor. What Vulk got was a prolonged dissertation on the commercial possibilities of the surrounding sectors, and an equally long list of potential sources for starship parts, weapons, munitions, cogitators, and the sort of goods that would be wanted in trade. The stunned Chapter Master could only watch as Cathek sketched out a comprehensive plan by which the existing resources and assets of the Stone Hearts could be parlayed into formidable wealth – wealth sufficient to ensure that the Stone Hearts could be ever-ready to enforce the Emperor's will.


The only question I have is to wonder how they are able to get the weaponry needed. Armor, vehicles, ships, and everything else I can see them getting from all over, but Space Marine weapons are almost exclusively made and shipped form Forge Worlds aren't they? Lascannons, Plasma Weapons, Bolters, etc are pretty uniquely produced by the AdMech and would probably be hard to get a hold of. I dunno though, I just feel like it'd be hard. Again, not entirely sure, just a question.

It also allowed him a chance to keep the Chapter free from the influence of Mars, which appealed both to Vulk's pride and to his sense of caution – any pretense of reconciliation the Tech-Priests might concede in the future could hardly be trusted when it came.


How do you submit gene-seed? If they hate you enough to go against the Emperor's own dictates and cut ties with you, what is to stop them from falsifying gene-records, or petitioning for your destruction? Even the Blood Angels, who denied Mars an STC still work with them, and STCs are a big deal. I dunno, it just seems like it would be nigh-impossible to maintain the same level of strength of a normal chapter if you have truly cut all ties. I'm probably wrong though.

Master Vulk was not the only one to find methods of dealing with the Chapter's logistical difficulties. Fiach Welf, then Captain of the Third Company, found himself far from Cathe, low on supplies, and equally low on prospects. He settled these difficulties by finding the nearest Space Marine Chapter and asking politely for aid. When his request was declined, Welf challenged his opposite number to a duel for the equipment he had requested. He triumphed, and the Company finished their patrol and returned to Cathe.


Why would a chapter agree to a duel for equipment? Especially since each piece of armor is supposedly a link to the chapter's past and all that. A symbolic trade between allies would work, but a duel? What would they get if they won?

Few are the Space Marine Captains who would decline such a challenge, and even some Imperial Guard commanders have been more than willing to test a dozen of their finest Guardsmen against a Space Marine. Most duels are non-lethal, and even when the Chapter loses they gain in knowledge. Though only a few duels are fought every decade, each one is seen as a mark of the warrior spirit of the Chapter.

I understand the importance of honor to marines, but these seem to be bad ideas. Unlike the duels of the Wolf and the Lion, where honor is at stake, and the worst the loser gives up is pride, these duels seem to be completely one-sided. Perhaps explain what the Stone Hearts are wagering? Secondly, what Guard Commander would seriously send regular men against a Space Marine? I would think a Commander would realize how foolish of an idea that would be.

Call them to account, you say? The Stone Hearts own this sector. Their men guard half the palaces, their merchants buy the output of nearly all the worlds, and their fleets keep the pirates in check. Their failure is no longer an option. – Inquisitor Tesseract D’Apothete

Again, maybe need quotations?

Though the bond between the Cathek family and the Stone Hearts remained strong for many millenia, the most recent scion of the family strained the relationship nearly to its breaking point. Tyrel Cathek was best described as a madman, even by the standards of the Imperium. His tendency to indiscriminately slaughter those who opposed him offended the Stone Hearts' sense of restraint, as did his lamentable personal habits and tendency to jump at shadows. The Fourth Company was his bodyguard, and even the relatively hot-blooded Captain Tancred Kintyre had often felt his hackles rise at the measures used by Cathek.

Who does the slaughtering for this guy? Does he possess his own army? Or his own mercenaries and Guard Corps? If he was relying on the Stone Hearts, couldn't they have just said no?

But the Stone Hearts were nothing if not patient, and were content to bide their time until Cathek died and was replaced by his far more reasonable daughter. Tyria had obviously been unaffected by her father's insanity, and was a shrewd and dangerous young woman, dedicated to the Imperium. Tancred, one of her childhoold friends, had discussed her father's obvious flaws with her, and they had both agreed that waiting was the only prudent thing to do. Tyria would handle much of her father's business, so that his madness might affect the Imperium as little as possible, and Tancred would do his best to ensure that when Cathek did force his soldiers into action, their targets would be deserving.


As just a childhood friend, how does he steer this obvious mad man, and what influence does he have? Why would such a paranoid guy like Tyrel let his daughter handle his stuff? Wouldn't he want to do everything himself to ensure that it was too his designs?

The Duke and his capital at Longford were the only truly civilized parts of the world, and even there Imperial influence was relatively weak.

The flow from the last paragraph to this one seems a bit off. One minute your discussing the Cathek's and their history,and the next you are jumping right back to Cathe and the Duke. Maybe a little intro to this would help? I dunno, could just be me.

Above all, the Stone Hearts are practical. Their brush with starvation and dissolution early in their history has made them cautious in ways that most Space Marines are not – they are keenly aware that even Space Marines can be defeated, albeit not necessarily on the battlefield. They seldom take rash courses of action, and adopt well-balanced strategies which use the minimum force and equipment necessary to accomplish their objectives. This has on occasion resulted in disaster when an enemy or situation was underestimated, but it has generally served the chapter well. Even the Chaplains of the Stone Hearts are relatively sedate compared to those of other chapters, and have somehow contrived to preach a more temperate zealotry.

The Stone Hearts don't read like marines to me. No offense intended, and I think that was the idea, but they read like warrior-merchants who are slowly losing the warrior part. Lax Chaplains, minimum force, etc. Which I guess is part of the idea? I dunno though.

Of course, the headstrong character of the Cathian population still rears its head in the Chapter. Every Stone Heart, despite his practicality, dreams of glory and ferocious hand-to-hand battles like those of old.


Space Marines are born to fight, and live fighting. A lot of that fighting is done at close combat. Why list hand-to-hand battles as, "of old"? Wouldn't that be a constant?

The Stone Hearts favor using the minimum force required in a situation. They have even been known to attempt to find diplomatic solutions (though often only as a cover for military preparations), or to buy off enemy armies and turn them to the service of the Imperium.


This seems to be the antithesis of Space Marine doctrine? My understanding was that if Space Marines are involved, every possible peaceful solution has been used. Negotiating with an enemy doesn't seem their style, and would likely be seen as cowardly by other Astartes, especially those of the Black Templar mindset.

Often the Chapter will settle for a somewhat prolonged engagement which takes less casualties, using fortifications and terrain to limit their casualties and ensure the destruction of the enemy. This minimal approach has sometimes resulted in temporary defeat, but the Stone Hearts always simply reevaluate the situation and react accordingly.


Again, very unorthodox. Marines are the SpecOps of the Imperium. Surgical strikes, drop pod assaults, brutal and fast rushes. These are Space Marine techniques. Settling in for the long haul seems wasteful of their abilities, since every minute they are fighting in a siege on world A is a minute they aren't slaughtering the Orks of World B. Just my opinion, but this seems wasteful of the nature and abilities of Space Marines. Perhaps this is a point of contention and argument with their brother Astartes and the Imperium as a whole?

The Stone Hearts adhere to the Codex Astartes, though each company is permitted to retain any unusual equipment they come across in their travels. When combined with the Chapter's occasional practice of duelling for equipment with other forces, this has lead to some companies being rather eclectic in their armaments. However, the Chapter's formations remain entirely Codex, if only because (in keeping with their practical nature), there has not yet been any need to do otherwise.


Keeping unusual equipment, especially of the Warp touched, or Xenos variety seems like a good way to bring an Inquisitor down upon you.

Many Inquisitors have speculated that the Chapter’s occasional reivings are really artfully staged trade deals, and several Chapters which have ‘suffered’ a loss to the Stone Hearts have been noted to have been more than recompensed through fortunate discoveries of ‘lost cargo’ or ‘forgotten land grants’.


Why do the Inquisitor's care where they get stuff like Bolters from? Odd and unusual tech would probably raise some eye-brows, but I doubt normal stuff matters? Trading between Chapters isn't uncommon or frowned upon that I am aware. Or do these Inquisitors just want to find some way to fail the Stone Hearts?

Various Imperial organizations have claimed that the Stone Hearts’ willingness to consort with aliens and thriving mercantile empire demonstrate that their geneseed must be irrevocably damaged. However, tithes to the Mechanicus remain pure, and the success of the Stone Hearts still remains an armor against the blandishments of their enemies.


What does one have to do with the other? Consorting with Aliens and trading a lot has nothing to do with gene-seed. What effect would these actions have on their gene-seed? It would certainly raise other questions, most of them mental, or loyalty based, but gene-seed seems an odd jump to me.


Man Octavulg, I hate you. Your IA is very well written, and really very good, makes my Sons look like whipped step-children in comparison. I just jumped on some very minor and nitpicky stuff, just to add what I could. Overall though, it's very solid, and the concept is definitely one of a kind. I had some questions, but none of them are all that serious, and I definitely like the feel of them.

#45
Hrvat

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I really enjojed reading this IA. It leaves me with a mental picture of a likable and efficient chapter that is potentially playing with fire.

The only thing that I really didn't understand was the Techmarine problem in the begining. From my understanding of the background Techmarines are Chapter members first, members of AM second. It is only in the superstitious minds of other Space Marines that belief is made that they can't be trusted. The other problem is that a Chapter is a self-sufficient organisation that relies on AM when under heavy preasure. The theme you are aiming for can be achieved without the fued with the AM. The simpler was would be to have your Chapter be at the end of the supply line. So they could be geting stuff but just not enough, therefore they build thier little mercantile empire.


The only writing mistake I noticed would be this:

While most of the chapter's techmarines personally agreed, the Tech-Priests took the alarming step of refusing to train further Techmarines - and shipments of supplies to the chapter dwindled to nearly nothing, with bureaucratic entanglements, piratical activity and production defects only a few of the legions of excuses the Techmarines provided.


Should that be Tech-Priests?



Cheers

Hrvat

#46
Brother Cambrius

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Not really much to say Octy, everything seems to be well written and was a good read. Just need to edit it again, make no changes and post to get those pesky sidebars to behave.

Neither option was acceptable to Chapter Master Cambrius Vulk, who chose a third course of action.


Here! I don't recall becoming chapter master to 2 chapters. ^_^

"When all else has failed, stone will still serve."


Perhaps get rid of still so it flows a little bit easier.

So as said, good work Octavulg.

Cambrius

Edited by Brother Cambrius, 20 October 2010 - 09:53 PM.

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#47
Octavulg

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General Note:

I need quotes. Subjects and suggestions are very welcome.

Oh, and I updated very slightly. Obviously.

Shinzaren:

I revised the opening quote and added Cambrius' suggestion from the first draft which I removed or forgot (gah!) on. I think it works better.

Quotations have been added to the quotes that lacked them.

I'm not entirely familiar with this, but do Space Marines have their planets assigned? I thought that was their choice on where to settle?


It's never really cleared up - the Second Founding Chapters chose their own, certainly. But the only non-Second Founding Chapter for which we have an IA are the Relictors and the Blood Ravens. And they don't have them.

I've always figured it depends on the Chapter, and it makes more sense that they'd be assigned than that the Astartes can just swoop down and claim the nicest world in the Sector.

If it is part of the Imperium, why isn't a Planetary Governor installed? Or are the Stone Hearts sent to make it a part of the Imperium? If the former is true, if heredity an issue? I thought it was an appointment, not something inherited. If the latter is true, then forget I said anything smile.gif


Governorships can be hereditary, and can also not be called governor. The More You Know. ;)

What is the tech level of this world? If it has a space port, I would assume development is fairly advanced. Or is the capital relatively so, and the rest of the world far more primitive? If it is, then it makes sense, but as it reads, they are advanced enough to have a space port, but they still operate in clans, which isn't a problem, I just think more primitive when I hear the word clan.


I'll make sure to note that the space port is some particularly well-packed Earth and an emergency Navy fuel depot.

Why not just surgically remove the nobles? I would assume without the financial and political support of these leaders, rebellion would either fade away, or be significantly reduced in threat level. "Cut off the head..."


First, as you may have noticed (the thing is a little littered with Gaelic cultural references), the Cathians are Celts. The Celtic inability to stop fighting just because their leaders are dead and all hope is lost is infamous.

Second, that might just raise the issue of them resenting the Space Marines for killing their leaders.

Third, the Stone Hearts at this point would be basically the cadre and the genetic stocks.

Finally, Space Marines tend to take a direct, bigger hammer approach. Think about the example in C:SM 3e - the White Panthers annihilated the entire PDF - several tens of thousands. The Inquisitor pointed out how an Assassin could have just killed off the leadership and avoided the issue.

How long ago did this happen? This sentence doesn't seem to add much, and seems a bit odd. Are they folk heroes? Legends? It seems like the Dukes, even if they were hugely popular in their time, would have faded quickly when compared to the Might and Grandeur of a Space Marine Chapter. That could just be me though, it kinda jumped out at me.


First, it's a bit of a Jacobite reference.

Second, people in 40K hold grudges for centuries all the time.

Third, they haven't actually been in charge in forever, and thus they must have been wonderful. Classic "oh, things were so much better before the current state of affairs". Not that we know anyone like that in real life, of course.

Disintegration is a pretty serious word. I don't have a good alternative, but this seems excessive to me. Even if they are starved for material, they would just disappear into nothingness? Or perhaps I'm being overly analytical.


Think about it. What do Space Marines do that wouldn't be affected by the Adeptus Mechanicus cutting off supplies?

They'd be left with the choice of doing nothing or slowly dwindling away, running out of ammo, etc.

The last part of the sentence seems a bit out of place. He goes from a dandy to a legitimate and skilled trader. That I can buy. What does a trader have to do with enforcing Imperial dictates and law?


Rogue Traders are actually obligated to, IIRC. It's part of the charter.

The only question I have is to wonder how they are able to get the weaponry needed. Armor, vehicles, ships, and everything else I can see them getting from all over, but Space Marine weapons are almost exclusively made and shipped form Forge Worlds aren't they? Lascannons, Plasma Weapons, Bolters, etc are pretty uniquely produced by the AdMech and would probably be hard to get a hold of. I dunno though, I just feel like it'd be hard. Again, not entirely sure, just a question.


I'll be more explicit about them not being entirely equivalent - they end up using a lot more of the relatively low-tech/low-value weapons, and fewer of the nice ones.

How do you submit gene-seed? If they hate you enough to go against the Emperor's own dictates and cut ties with you, what is to stop them from falsifying gene-records, or petitioning for your destruction? Even the Blood Angels, who denied Mars an STC still work with them, and STCs are a big deal. I dunno, it just seems like it would be nigh-impossible to maintain the same level of strength of a normal chapter if you have truly cut all ties. I'm probably wrong though.


Oh ****. I had not even vaguely thought of that.

My solution has been the simplest one - the Adeptus Mechanicus doesn't dislike the Chapter. They don't really care. The anger is one-sided - while they weren't going to stand for someone flat-out defying them AND taking their stuff, it was more a question of principle than anything they were actually worried or upset about. Obviously no Space Marine Chapter could survive without them, thus everything must be fine, mustn't it?

Why would a chapter agree to a duel for equipment? Especially since each piece of armor is supposedly a link to the chapter's past and all that. A symbolic trade between allies would work, but a duel? What would they get if they won?


The Stone Hearts not calling them wusses. ;)

It's a weakness with the idea, I admit. Thoughts would be appreciated.

Who does the slaughtering for this guy? Does he possess his own army? Or his own mercenaries and Guard Corps? If he was relying on the Stone Hearts, couldn't they have just said no?


Four companies of the Imperial Army and the Fourth Company of the Stone Hearts. Or so sayeth the Book of the Astronomicon.

In answer to why he does what Cathek says - because Cathek's in charge. Kintyre's a soldier - he doesn't always like his orders. Besides, killing Rogue Traders is the sort of thing that makes people ask questions. That said, I've made it a little clearer that Cathek wasn't always completely loony and they didn't think explaining what happened to him to the Inquisition would be worth it. So long as he targeted the deserving, no harm.

People are a little callous in the grim darkness of the far future.

The flow from the last paragraph to this one seems a bit off. One minute your discussing the Cathek's and their history,and the next you are jumping right back to Cathe and the Duke. Maybe a little intro to this would help? I dunno, could just be me.


You do what I do, don't you? You cut and paste into Wordpad to review. The bit about the Cathek's is a sidebar. Trust me - you'll learn to watch for that. I had to.

If not...the previous paragraph was talking about the character of Cathe. I thought it flowed quite well...

Space Marines are born to fight, and live fighting. A lot of that fighting is done at close combat. Why list hand-to-hand battles as, "of old"? Wouldn't that be a constant?


Well, now they have guns, so the Cathians don't fight hand-to-hand as much. The Chapter still does.

And besides, it was so much better in the old days. Everyone was more honorable, you know. That chestnut again.

This seems to be the antithesis of Space Marine doctrine? My understanding was that if Space Marines are involved, every possible peaceful solution has been used. Negotiating with an enemy doesn't seem their style, and would likely be seen as cowardly by other Astartes, especially those of the Black Templar mindset.


Again, I point you to the White Panthers.

I suspect that if the White Panthers had said "HI GUYZ WE'VE COME 4 UR GOVERNER", they would have got themselves a governor. At minimum, the panic of "the Space Marines are here" would have been useful.

Again, very unorthodox. Marines are the SpecOps of the Imperium. Surgical strikes, drop pod assaults, brutal and fast rushes. These are Space Marine techniques. Settling in for the long haul seems wasteful of their abilities, since every minute they are fighting in a siege on world A is a minute they aren't slaughtering the Orks of World B. Just my opinion, but this seems wasteful of the nature and abilities of Space Marines. Perhaps this is a point of contention and argument with their brother Astartes and the Imperium as a whole?


The fast strike is good. But what if the resources you spend in that cost you victory later?

The Stone Hearts are Scots misers. (;)) And that means they don't like to spend if they don't have to - including in battle. Revised to imply this a little more.

Keeping unusual equipment, especially of the Warp touched, or Xenos variety seems like a good way to bring an Inquisitor down upon you.


They don't keep things that are dangerous!

Revised to make that clear.

Why do the Inquisitor's care where they get stuff like Bolters from? Odd and unusual tech would probably raise some eye-brows, but I doubt normal stuff matters? Trading between Chapters isn't uncommon or frowned upon that I am aware. Or do these Inquisitors just want to find some way to fail the Stone Hearts?


The Inquisitors care about everything, for it is their business to care. They're suspicious little bastards. Also, the Stone Hearts are not getting their supplies from entirely Imperial sources. That's suspiciouser.

What does one have to do with the other? Consorting with Aliens and trading a lot has nothing to do with gene-seed. What effect would these actions have on their gene-seed? It would certainly raise other questions, most of them mental, or loyalty based, but gene-seed seems an odd jump to me.


They're deviant practices that most people don't do.

CLEARLY THEY'RE HERETICS AND MUTANTS!!!!!

Man Octavulg, I hate you. Your IA is very well written, and really very good


I'm sexy, too, you know. And modest.

I just jumped on some very minor and nitpicky stuff, just to add what I could.


But this is what the Liber is built on!

Thanks a lot. I'm glad I finally figured out at least a little of what I was doing with them. I'm even more glad that what I figured out seems to be likable.

* * *

Hrvat:

I really enjojed reading this IA. It leaves me with a mental picture of a likable and efficient chapter that is potentially playing with fire.


Thanks! That's about what it should be. I was a little inspired by the Knights Templar, and we all know how that worked out.

The only thing that I really didn't understand was the Techmarine problem in the begining. From my understanding of the background Techmarines are Chapter members first, members of AM second. It is only in the superstitious minds of other Space Marines that belief is made that they can't be trusted. The other problem is that a Chapter is a self-sufficient organisation that relies on AM when under heavy preasure. The theme you are aiming for can be achieved without the fued with the AM. The simpler was would be to have your Chapter be at the end of the supply line. So they could be geting stuff but just not enough, therefore they build thier little mercantile empire.


The degree to which Chapters are self-sufficient has, AFAIK, never been entirely nailed down. Even if they're as independent as you say, it can fortunately be explained away by pointing out that the Chapter was still quite young - and thus had less infrastructure.

I'd agree with you that it simplifies, but I think it does work better as a conflict. First, a conflict could have come up by surprise - thus, it makes sense that the Chapter wouldn't have been prepared/preparing to deal with it, and thus that they might be more willing to consider desperate measures. If the problem developed gradually, I'd expect the Chapter to have tried to head it off earlier - likely by establishing their own production facilities. If the problem comes on suddenly, they can end up high and dry. Second, they're a banking Chapter. There's only so much logistics and economics I can have before things get silly. ;)

I fixed the Techmarines thing, too. Thanks. :)

* * *

Cambrius:

I no longer even worry about sidebars. Mostly because they're evil.

Here! I don't recall becoming chapter master to 2 chapters. msn-wink.gif


Must be a different Cambrius, I guess. You should look into that.

Perhaps get rid of still so it flows a little bit easier.


I added on the quote you sent me so many moons ago, and which I criminally forgot to use. I think it makes it fit a little better.

Thanks as always. :)

Edited by Octavulg, 21 October 2010 - 03:15 AM.

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#48
Shinzaren

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A.) Quotations! Quotations! Quotations! All your intro quotes to the sections should be quoted, as it stands after the latest update you're about 50/50. This should also apply to both Ballads and Hymnals, as both are considered a form of speech and verbal communication, and thus need to identify as such.
B.)

You do what I do, don't you? You cut and paste into Wordpad to review. The bit about the Cathek's is a sidebar. Trust me - you'll learn to watch for that. I had to.


Guilty as charged :) I'll have to remember that.
C.)

The Stone Hearts not calling them wusses.

It's a weakness with the idea, I admit. Thoughts would be appreciated.

The Stone Hearts have what? Deep pockets, heavy flow of bodies and trade, Marines, and good ties with a Rogue Trader. Another chapter may be more than willing to barter or bet on any one of these. My Sons of Lightning for instance are fleet based and waging a never-ending war against every Eldar of the Veil Region. They could always use more men, and would gladly wager wargear and arms in exchange for Oaths of Loyalty some time in the future, extra material to repair their fleet when they are away from Imperial worlds, and the services of a Rogue Trader, who could be very helpful in dealing the large tracts of unexplored space, and the myriad species, and political entanglements of the Veil Region. After all, we're on pretty good terms with the AdMech and the Inquisition after we lent them a hand, so we have weapons and armor.

I dunno if they would throw duels or take a dive... :) But I'm sure at least one member of the Stone Hearts could best our champion once or twice. Besides, if the reward for victory is an Honor Debt that we can call on at any time, that's certainly worth the price of some armor and weapons. I think the most important factor for this idea to work is to look at what the Stone Hearts can provide that other chapters can't, and what they can't get that others can. Play to your strengths.

Some more thoughts for you. Otherwise, they still look and read amazingly well.

Edited by Shinzaren, 21 October 2010 - 05:03 AM.


#49
Lysimachus

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Ok, gonna do my best to be as nitpick-y as humanly possible here (you can take it and, as usual, there's nothing else to fix here! :cuss )

Firstly though, have to say to Cambrius: Very nice work on the opening quote!


Origins section:

Not much here, except the highlighted bit in this paragraph:

There was one small problem with Cathe. Much of Cathe's populace resented the transition to Space Marine rule, and a number of the local nobles had nursed this resentment in hopes of somehow rebelling and taking control of the planet for themselves. This resistance had coalesced behind the person of young Tyrion Cathek, the Duke's bastard son, despite his personal apathy toward the rebellion. His support among the population was significant enough to make revolt a distinct possibility, and rebellion would mean that the Stone Hearts must either leave or suppress this challenge to their authority, greatly damaging the planet's capacity as a base. Neither option was acceptable to Chapter Master Cambrius Vulk, who chose a third course of action.


and this sentence at the end:

and those few nobles foolish enough to rise up were quickly and lethally dealt with.



I think you just need to clarify why and how big a problem it could have been, and also, why it wouldn’t work without Tyrion at its head? Maybe change to something like:

'His support by the ambitious nobles and his popularity among the common people were significant enough to make full scale planetary revolt a distinct possibility,'

and then perhaps just add an ‘alone’ or something between up and were in the other sentence?


Next section coming soon!





Edit: Now, in fact. :)

Precious Stones:

Overall, seems fine to me, except:

Of course, a new order only ever lasts long enough for its collapse to be surprising. A few brief decades later, the Chapter was on the brink of disintegration. Relations with the Adeptus Mechanicus had become strained when an irate Vulk explained to a senior Magos that the Techmarines of the Stone Hearts would be Stone Hearts first, and Adepts of Mars second. While most of the chapter's techmarines personally agreed, the Tech-Priests took the alarming step of refusing to train further Techmarines - and shipments of supplies to the chapter dwindled to nearly nothing, with bureaucratic entanglements, piratical activity and production defects only a few of the legions of excuses the Tech-Priests provided. The Stone Hearts were being slowly starved of needed materials, even though their Techmarines were willing to train other marines in the technical arts. Their limited manufactory facilities simply could not keep up with the demands of a full chapter.


The second half of this paragraph feels a bit muddled to me and a little bit 'Tech-something' repetitive, maybe something like this might work?:

While most members of the Chapter Armoury personally agreed, the Tech-Priests took the alarming step of refusing to train further Techmarines. In itself, this was only a minor problem as the Chapter’s own Techmarines were willing and able to train others in the technical arts. However, at the same time, shipments of supplies to the Chapter dwindled to nearly nothing, with bureaucratic entanglements, piratical activity and production defects being only a few of the myriad excuses provided by the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Stone Hearts were being slowly starved of needed materials, their limited manufactory facilities simply unable to keep up with the demands of a full chapter.


Only other thing I found in this section was this:

any pretense of reconciliation the Tech-Priests might concede in the future could hardly be trusted when it came.


Feels a bit wordy, personally I'd cut 'pretense of', it's unnecessary.


Right, definately leaving it there for now. Definately. I'll come back to it later.

I mean it.

:)

Lysimachus

Edited by Strike Captain Lysimachus, 21 October 2010 - 02:18 PM.


#50
Imperialis_Dominatus

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They're fun for influences, those Templars.


Do they now...

Edited by Imperialis_Dominatus, 21 October 2010 - 08:22 AM.

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