Assualt Marines with flamers

[scalz88]

im thinking of putting 2 flamers in a group of 5 assualt marines. ive always just gone with 2 plasma pistols, anyone have an oppinion?

[General Retreat]

I would only use them if you're going up against an army that you know will hug cover. The flamer is a two-handed weapon, which means you're cutting down the assault power of the unit by using them (where as plasma pistols get one shot, and give an extra attack in CC). However, between the possibility of loosing an expensive marine to a bad roll on the PP, and the fact that nothing beats the flamer against pathfinders, kroot, and GEQ troops, you could find that actual miles will vary.

 

My best suggestion is to magnetize the arms of two of your assault troops, and make magnetized versions of the Plasma Pistols and Flamers. This way, you can choose before the battle based on who you're playing. I play marines for the tactical flexibility, and while I normally would look askance at a player who completely tailors a force to it's foe, in this circumstance, it makes sense. I can just see a unit of AM sitting in a Thunderhawk waiting to drop, when the Seargent calls out, "Arm flamers, boys, the enemy thinks it can hide from us!"

 

I use plasma pistols on mine because I tend to fight heavy infantry, from CSM to Tau, where my Assault Squad is almost always tasked with running down those annoying suits. A free wound or two on those 3+ save troops can help a lot, not to mention, my boys fight at full potential, getting an extra attack each with the pistol.

 

I'm not familiar with the rules for SoB Seraphim, but it would seem that SM needs to requisition a few of those hand-flamers....

 

 

Gen Retreat

[Marek Grimfang]

I would use two flamers in a squad of 10 marines.

 

Yes you loose a CC attack per marine. In total that is two attacks lost from the whole squad.

 

If you are running squads of 5, I would use one flamer. That way only one extra CC attack is lost.

[scalz88]

yea im thinking maybe one of each to get the balance. thanks for the idea

 

edit: my god id love marines with hand flamers

[Lord Doyok]

i say flamer is better than having additional cc attacks. With a flamer, usually you can hit 4 and more models. that is equal to having 4+ additional cc attacks that hits automatically.

[Brother Drakk]

Yes but you have to remember that there are 12 turns of assault in a normal game while there are only 6 turns of shooting. Still, if you manage to pull off 2 shots per flamer, you'll easily buy back your points. So it really depends. For my guys, i take 2 flamers. Even though they reduce the number of attacks by 2, it's nothing compared to the number of hits you can land in one shooting phase. Some MEQ's have to die to two flamers covering 4 guys each! That's 8 hits, 4 wounds, 1 failed save (about). That's about the same for two plasma pistols.

[Grindgodgrind]

I always use 2 flamers with my Assault marines, and they work excellently.

[Champion Eternal]

Flamers are better.Just do the math,they will kill more orks,more marines,more nekrons.As for the two less attacks dont make me laugh,thats nothing compared to the overall damage the unit can do.

[paintballpro]

I love the flamer, especially in this role. Using two flamers in a 5 man is a great idea, as while you will lose 2/4 attacks, if you're close enough to employ a flamer, you should also be charging the same turn. The extra hits from the flamer more than compensates for the loss of two or 4 melee attacks, especially considering that the flamer will ignore the save of at least some figs, whilst everyone gets saves from standard melee attacks.

 

One word of advice however, the flamer can be too affective, especially against orks, kroot etc. They may kill so many models that a wise opponent will be able to deny your charge by removing models from the front of the unit.

[scalz88]

just remembered, there is a high possibility that these marines (as with all 20 in the list) will be getting furiouse charge at 3pts. a peice. does that make the attack to valuable to throw away?

[Champion Eternal]

First of all why to field just 5 men AS? Sorry but that doesnt sound healthy.I usually field two full squads and I feel I need even more...By having just 5 men,dont ask if it worths to lose the extra CC attacks,just ask yourself if 5 men assault squads are effective.

[scalz88]

ive found them to be fairly useful as tank hunters and counter-chargers. although they are easy to kill they arent going to attract too much attention. as i said im using 20 in the list. 2 five man and 1 ten man squad with a chaplain. would 2 10 man squads really be better? im losing alot of special weps if i use that set up.

[Jaspercation]

i have two 8 man squads of assualt marines and normally give them two flamers, but then again my sergeant has twin lightning claws which makes up for the slight lack in attacks. arm this squad with melta bombs and you have a decent all round force!! it hasnt let me down yet!!! (hopefully i havent spoken too soon)

[Lord Doyok]

First of all why to field just 5 men AS? Sorry but that doesnt sound healthy.I usually field two full squads and I feel I need even more...By having just 5 men,dont ask if it worths to lose the extra CC attacks,just ask yourself if 5 men assault squads are effective.

5 man small. But they usually works in 2 squads. Move together, shoot together and assault together.

It is called MSU. it works great for me. and i think it works great for some others too.

 

For example: My Raven Guard has 6x6man Assault Squad. Each squad with Furious Charge, 1 PWeapon and 3 Plasmas.

2 squad moving together equals to 12man Assault squad with 6 plasmas and 8 S5 PWeapon attacks on charging. Imagine that.

 

not to mention enemy had to split fire to shoot at 2 squad instead of 1.

 

I hope that explains.

[Brother Drakk]

First of all why to field just 5 men AS? Sorry but that doesnt sound healthy.I usually field two full squads and I feel I need even more...By having just 5 men,dont ask if it worths to lose the extra CC attacks,just ask yourself if 5 men assault squads are effective.

5 man small. But they usually works in 2 squads. Move together, shoot together and assault together.

It is called MSU. it works great for me. and i think it works great for some others too.

 

For example: My Raven Guard has 6x6man Assault Squad. Each squad with Furious Charge, 1 PWeapon and 3 Plasmas.

2 squad moving together equals to 12man Assault squad with 6 plasmas and 8 S5 PWeapon attacks on charging. Imagine that.

 

not to mention enemy had to split fire to shoot at 2 squad instead of 1.

 

I hope that explains.

 

Gawd i have to say, i'd hate to have a battle against you.

 

But that being said, in assault, moral plays a big role. Space marines may have ld 8, but it's not enough to last against a few moral checks in battle. They shall know no fear may help, but it's generally better for you to hold your position rather than lose ground but still 'hold'. That being said, if you have 6 assault squads, even if they are rather small, it would be devastating if used well.

[Chaplain Dominus]

Get one of each.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

I like to use 4 flamers in a havoc squad and go hunting.

Obviously cooks lightly armoured forces without too much effort but also quite effective against powerarmoured forces.

If i use 4 heavy bolters (another fun method of mine) I get 12 S5 shots that can miss and then be saved by armour. If i use flamers I automatically hit everything under the template with an evens chance of wounding (though still saveable) x4.

Gird your loins, charge, and be the close assault shock troops Marines are supposed to be.

[Lord Doyok]

There was this time when my raptors deepstrike close to Ork Lootas and burn them alive. Only 4 out of 15 survived to tell the story. Flamers are indeed a lovely weapon choice.

[Galenus]

From my experience, its best to stay versatile. What I tend towards is a PP/PW with my sarge in each Assault squad, and then one squad gets two flamers, one squad gets 2 PP/CCW, then, as was mentioned earlier, move them in tandem. A flamer is essentially a template bolter, but with the added benefit of being an ASSAULT weapon, meaning that on a good turn, those two flamer marines can move with their squad and get in nice and close to an enemy squad, light up the grill, and still charge into melee that same turn, where as with the pistol you may get an extra attack in assault, but you are more limited when shooting before the charge.

 

Just my two cents. Obviously the same factors that limit a bolters effectiveness (Strength/Toughness, and AP primarily) apply to the flamer as well. Against high toughness targets like Plague Marines and MCs and the like, you're going to want as many high strength melta and plasma weapons as you can grab, but for Orkz, Guard (I love assauting against guard. two vet sarges and a meltagun marine sent 2 squads of guard and a squad of Sisters running while only losing the meltagun!), and other mob armies running. Unsure of the viability vs Tau or Eldar though.

 

I REALLY hope they give Combat Squads rules to Assault Marines in 5e. Would just be too enjoyable to field x3 ten man teams and split them into x6 man groups running around and causing general terror. XD

[General Retreat]

I plau Tau too often I guess. The flamer is a great choice, too good, in fact. My Tau opponent loves nothing more than to deny me the charge in any way possible, and every time I go to use these guys, I'm stretching to get the charge distance anyway. More often than not I just pass on shooting to make sure and get the charge. When I do shoot, even just with bolt pistols, he removes the closest models, and my assault marines are stuck facing massive firepower in the open. On the occasions when I get get behind him, or right in his face (1") so I could charge anything in the unit, the flamers would indeed be awesome. I'd still fear wiping the squad out with shooting, since, IIRC, you can only charge the unit you shot at, and if that unit is dead, no charging, even if others are in range. When you massacre in CC, you get d6" of move to get to another unit (okay, that's changing in 5th), but when you kill from 12" away with shooting, you're just stuck out.

[Barjack]

I run a 10 man assualt squad with a chappy attached with duel flamers and they play my anti deepstrike or anti shokkgunn. let them deep strike or repostion jump pack in hit 8 models on the first flamer another 8 on the second shot. At least i will kill 10 models then bp and my sarge Duel wields PW and the chappy gets Dw PW and lit of hate which i can reroll all hits on a charge. Entire squad of neco warriors and necron lord dead in one turn. it was lovely.

[Brandee]

I run SoB Seraphim instead of Assault Marines in my Marines army. They're the only non-marine unit I have.

 

The Sisters have 1 less S and T, but they get twin-linked bolt pistols (2 close combat weapons!) and the special weapons they get are Hand Flamers (a flamer without sacrificing the extra attack in CC) or Inferno Pistols (half range twin-linked meltas... and the extra attack in CC). All that plus Hit and Run means that they are nothing short of awesome. You get 1 faith point with em too! The only part about them that I don't like is the poorly balanced metal models. =P

 

I'd never run them or Assault Marines at less than full squad size. If there aren't enough models, the Tau I play against will take them out before they get close enough to actually do anything.

[Bannus]

I think we will see flamers gain in popularity.

 

The reason being the very generous Cover Saves provided in 5th edition. Even tall grass will provide a 6+ Cover Save.

 

Weapons that ignore such Saves will become very, very valuable.

[OGNaaman]

If you can afford the fast attack slots, I would take two squads of 5 each with 2 flamers and have them work in tandem with each other. Flamers and jump packs are a deadly mix. Naturally, the unit will want to avoid close combat if possible, instead flying around the battlefield dowsing opponents with purging flames. If close combat is unavoidable, it will still wreck havok on it's opponents.

 

I would only bother charging in order to mop up the leftovers from four flamers (if any). Plasma pistols can produce a maximum of 1 casualty per turn and even carry the risk of killing your own guy (I never use them, as they have so far proven to be a waste of points).

[Ethrion]

I run a 10 man assualt squad with a chappy attached with duel flamers and they play my anti deepstrike or anti shokkgunn. let them deep strike or repostion jump pack in hit 8 models on the first flamer another 8 on the second shot. At least i will kill 10 models then bp and my sarge Duel wields PW and the chappy gets Dw PW and lit of hate which i can reroll all hits on a charge. Entire squad of neco warriors and necron lord dead in one turn. it was lovely.

 

I do EXACTLY the same thing and it's outstanding! Aerial doom :mellow: