melta/ flamer squads or

[_Hardie_]

whats better 2 units with melta and flamer or 2 squads one with 2 flamers the other with 2 meltas?

[Night Stalker]

i use 2 melta on csm and 2flamer on my raptors. work very ok.

 

but if you need jack of all trades you'd better end up with flamer/melta squads.

[Bad News Pat]

I would say use the melta/flamer combo. But I only use melta because I dont like to use template weapons.

[JamesI]

For regular marine squads I go with 2 melta or 2 plasma. For Raptors 1 melta/1 flamer.

[khairney]

tactically, it would make more sense to use a flamer/melta combo. sods luck that your flamer squad would come up against armour and your meltas would be swamped with grunts. best bet is to mix em up

[fearlessgod]

Well _Hardie_, it seems as though you'll get a lot of different answers on this question. I've used seemingly every combination mentioned and I prefer 2 meltaguns or 2 flamers (against IG, Tau, Orks and small Nids). I usually run 2 or 3 squads, each with a rhino. Recently, I tried the melta/flamer combo and had good success, but I still perfer 2 of the same special weapon. Just my 2 cents...

 

~fearlessgod~

[Deneris]

I tend to use "assault" Havoc squads with four of the same weapon, usually 4 meltas or *gasp* 4 plasmas, and the Asp. Champ with a Combi-Plas/Melta, depending on the squad, all mounted in rhinos. Nothin' says lovin' like 10 plasma shots at 12"... And it always amuses the enemy how many 1s and 2s I can roll :).

[the jeske]

its not the best way to mix . a single melta wont kill a tank [or at least you cant be sure that it always does something to one ] a single flamer may have problems with geting in to range [unless use on raptors] and a single one wound do enough wounds [yes even in the 5th] on meq . Also some units set ups make no sense , if you mix . Raptors for example 5 man flamer/melta , why would anyone do that . Generally its better to spam units with the same arment , so that a lose of one doesnt mean your army get crippled against certain opponents . I does depend a lot on the units set up your playing [ for example if you play a lash build with oblits and termi minimax , its better to arm your 5 man raptors with double flamers and your PMs with double plasma ].

 

Havocks just cost to many pts and with the way set up works and the new LoS rules its really easy to either counter them or give them no worth targets [and they take up the same slots as oblits ].

[Mabrothrax]

I'm of the school of thought that more is better so I'd say take two of the same weapon in any given unit.

 

Why not have a meltabomb armed champion in your double flamer units?

[Deneris]

Havocks just cost to many pts and with the way set up works and the new LoS rules its really easy to either counter them or give them no worth targets [and they take up the same slots as oblits ].

 

Often they are worth more than Oblits, as it's harder to "gib" a squad of Havocs than a Squad of Oblits. And a nicely tooled up "assault" Havoc squad can usually outfight an Obliterator squad. And, if your "basic" troops are Rubrics (like me), the Havocs are a nice change in the Close Combat phase...lol

[Senseilord Ashahara]

If in doubt, set fire to everything.

[Maladon]

I tend to use meltaguns in csm's squads, and with chosen its 4 meltaguns. I have used plasma guns, but the overheating rapid fire is usually a problem for me.... damn dice rolls.

 

plus why would people use 5 man raptors squads anyway, that's stupid. a min size squad should at least be 8 man.

[apparition]

@ Maladon. Its not stupid, its a cheap effective anti tank squad if you give them 2 meltaguns

 

On topic: I suggest tactical flexibility for basic CSMs by giving them one melta and one flamer. If your playing a good opponent and he sees one of your squads has flamers and the other meltas he is unlikely to leave you in a position where your weapons are most efficient against his forces.

[the jeske]

and he does that when your units sit in rhinos and are safly locked away in the army box ?

 

 

Havoc squad can usually outfight an Obliterator squad.

and if you try to do hth with oblits then your doing something wrong . oblits are better because they have almost all the havocks weapon options at the same time and even if they lack some , lash + blast template = more or less a better version of hvy bolter.

[Kalrik]

For me, its always Meltagun/Flammer 10 man in a rhino

 

CSM's are the most flexible troop in the game, right now, they can score, have CCW/Pistol, A rapidfire weapon, and can be iconed, also they carry krak/frag grens

 

why that combo?

 

Simple, one of the most effective strategies in anti-troop is, tankshock, so they have to bunch up all the models, jump out, FLAME ON, I've wasted upwards of 10 troops on the tactic, and then wait, everyone else still has bolters!!! also, the meltagun will still kill ANYTHING... if you point it at a troop, and hit, it dies...

 

#1 Gets hot, I just dun like it

#2 Rapid fire, not assault.

 

This combination does not deny the CSM's using their special weapons and still assaulting, (not that they can out of rhinos, but still delievers some of the best anti-tank in the game come 5th edition

 

Not only will it get 8+2d6 Armor pen, but it will get +1 to the results, meaning even a glance can kill, and a pen will kill on a 3+ it works fantastic. While I'd hate to have to waste a whole squad's shooting on this tactic, unfortunately, i've already had to do so twice since my group started in 5th edition and there's no way I'd trade my melta for anything else!

[Seahawk]

Actually, a penetrating melta kills on a 4+, not 3+. But minor quibbles aside, I use:

 

10 Marines w/meltagun, flamer, iocg; champion w/power fist, plasma pistol

 

It handles anything with relative ease.

[Cale]

I'm on the fence on this issue. On the one hand, I like having squads with two meltas. One melta makes for a reasonable anti-tank effort, but two makes for a very good antitank effort. On the other hand, I don't like it when my meltas get tied up doing one thing and I don't have anything left to go after an annoying tank effectively. Having a melta and a flamer in each squad definitely adds versatility.

 

I hadn't really considered the plasma pistol, since it is very expensive, but the idea of including one does have some appeal.

[Seahawk]

Meh, expensive. I don't take cult units, so my CSM feel cheaper. Besides, it makes up for the lack of a second melta, in a way. Examples: Target Units.

 

Unit A: Geq

Actions: Tank shock into clump, then flame and bolter to death. Anything tougher can be melta/plasma'd. Or massed bolters should be sufficient.

 

Unit B: Meq

Actions: Tank shock into clump, then flame and bolter to death. Melta/plasma remainder. Prepare for the charge.

 

Unit C: MC's

Actions: Unload before moving transport, melta/plasma, bolt pistol, then charge. Alternatively, do driveby's in rhino to reduce wounds, as when it charges it can only destroy the rhino and not touch the unit that tumbles out (to a standard pinning check, mind you; with iocg you should be fine). Then shoot it again and charge it.

 

Unit D: Walkers

Actions: Unload before moving transport, melta/plasma, then charge with free grenades and fist. Alternatively, do driveby's in rhino to potentially, as when it charges it can only destroy the rhino and not touch the unit that tumbles out (to a standard pinning check, mind you; with iocg you should be fine). Then shoot it again and charge it.

 

Unit E: Vehicles

Actions: Unload before moving transport, melta/plasma, then charge with free grenades and fist. Alternatively, do driveby's in rhino to potentially, as when it rams it can only destroy the rhino and not touch the unit that tumbles out (to a standard pinning check, mind you; with iocg you should be fine). Then shoot it again and charge it. Alternatively, drop behind your transport and advance under cover. With land raiders, don't bother in 5th. You want/need a pair of meltas, chainfist, or just shoot it from afar.

[apparition]

I take your point Jeske but rhinos can be destroyed with relative ease or hindered by terrain making it necessary for that squad to disembark so your opponent can in those circumstances counter single tasked equipped special weapons. Additionally not all players giver their CSM units rhinos for various reasons.

 

I havent tried the plasmapistol on the asp. champion, though knowing my luck he will overheat and kill himself with it!

[Cale]

Meh, expensive. I don't take cult units, so my CSM feel cheaper. Besides, it makes up for the lack of a second melta, in a way.

 

I don't take cult units, either, but that squad still comes out to 265 points instead of 250. At 250, I can just fit four such squads into an army. At 265, I wouldn't be able to. That makes the plasma pistol too expensive, in my book.

[Senseilord Ashahara]

fire is always the way.

[Seahawk]

Gotcha. I assume that cost includes the rhino. For me, I only use a pair of CSM squads in rhinos, while daemons are more troops fillers. I use havocs, possessed, and terminators as my marine force, so that's where I get the rest of my bodies. If you want to rely more on shooting instead of combat I'd suggest dropping the fist for a combi-weapon on the rhino itself. I've been using my squad in a rhino with a combi-melta, and the amount of dakka those units pour out catches opponents off-guard. I mean, geewillikers, can you think of a havoc squad with a triplet of meltaguns, a flamer, a plasma pistol, huron's heavy flamer, and another combi-plasma gun up top? Unleashing that on an enemy is great fun, if overcosted and silly.

[Maladon]

and he does that when your units sit in rhinos and are safly locked away in the army box ?

 

 

Havoc squad can usually outfight an Obliterator squad.

and if you try to do hth with oblits then your doing something wrong . oblits are better because they have almost all the havocks weapon options at the same time and even if they lack some , lash + blast template = more or less a better version of hvy bolter.

 

What? is that your attempt at a insult, cause I've read worse online. No, I don't put csm squads in rhinos, I only have one and that for my berserkers.

 

I don't mix special weapons, I find what works for me and stick with that, period. I don't care what others say.

 

Both of my csm squads load outs

 

Twin plasma guns, with a plasma pistol and power weapon.

Twin meltaguns, with a plasma pistol with IoS.

 

The only mixing I do is on chosen, then I mix, except its three plasma guns and twin meltaguns.

[Kalrik]

and he does that when your units sit in rhinos and are safly locked away in the army box ?

 

 

Havoc squad can usually outfight an Obliterator squad.

and if you try to do hth with oblits then your doing something wrong . oblits are better because they have almost all the havocks weapon options at the same time and even if they lack some , lash + blast template = more or less a better version of hvy bolter.

 

What? is that your attempt at a insult, cause I've read worse online. No, I don't put csm squads in rhinos, I only have one and that for my berserkers.

 

I don't mix special weapons, I find what works for me and stick with that, period. I don't care what others say.

 

Both of my csm squads load outs

 

Twin plasma guns, with a plasma pistol and power weapon.

Twin meltaguns, with a plasma pistol with IoS.

 

The only mixing I do is on chosen, then I mix, except its three plasma guns and twin meltaguns.

 

He was Responding apparition, in the regard that the enemy will not know if your squads are carrying flamers and meltas, if they're still in rhinos.

 

I think it will be interesting to see what our army lists look like after a year of 5th edition, I've felt that plasma is too cost-prohibitive for what it does, but now that gets-hot is going back to only on 1's and rapid fire hasn't changed.

 

Still I think it will be to each their own, the sole reason I don't take Plasmaguns is nothing to do with gets hot, or its cost ( y'know a plasmagun costing as much as a flamer and a melta) its more to the fact unlike the other options I can't fire it and still charge, since I believe if you're not at mid range with your basic CSM squads, you're doing something wrong =P but thats just my Opinion.

 

At least Chaos players aren't like the loyalists trying to stuff heavy weapons in every squad so their army can stand around so one guy can shoot the gun that actually matters =)

[chillin]

You will probably get replies split right down the middle, cause it's a personal choice thing.

I personally give csm's squads melta/flamers cause I like them to be jack of all trades. Other units I equip for a specific purpose (like raptors for example).