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IA: Angels Cruentis (v1.0) +DEFAECO+PURGAMENTUM+


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#26
Hasoroth

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Wasn't Marneus Calgar 700 years old in past editions, and now he's younger than the ancient Cassius at 400? Its all a bunch of retcons. If we disregard past fluff about Marneus, we disregard past fluff in Deathwing.

I personally think a Marine can technically live forever, just doesn't happen seeing as they tend to go 'splode.

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#27
Octavulg

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Since the stuff in Deathwing doesn't contradict anything else, I see no reason to disregard it.

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#28
Colrouphobic

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Since the stuff in Deathwing doesn't contradict anything else, I see no reason to disregard it.

That is for another topic, but that isn't a correct assessment. They don't retcon entire stories, they retcon specific traits or details. Thus the Age deal can easily have been retconned whereas other things in the same story can still be true. But that isn't for this topic.

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#29
Imperialis_Dominatus

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EDIT: That's right, I was here to critique a Chapter, not argue semantics on Marine lifespans.

Sweet art as always, colrouphobic. But a few points.

Firstly, your paragraphs could use a space between them. This makes things easier to read (for me). Also there's a few spelling things, but they don't really interfere. My biggest quibble, mechanically, is probably the colloquial language. There's a couple spots where the article slips into very common speak, and as a whole it could use a little formalizing. Pretend you're writing a research paper (ugh), that's what I do.

I wouldn't equate the Hosts with Great Wolf Companies like that- confuses the whole 'what Chapter do they come from' thing, plus some readers may not be familiar with how a Great Company is structured. Instead, write it out and explain it. It keeps the focus on your Chapter too.

I agree that Fallen Loyalist Chapters may be a bit overdone, but since you've got an overarcing plot to work with I'll let the potential of it being so slide without comment. But I'd remove speculation in-universe that they might be Fallen- no one else but the DA and Successors know that, and they wouldn't sit around and discuss it, but move out with all the fury of the Lion and put this Chapter between a Rock *badumtish* and a hard place.

Speaking of which, if they're DA Successors, I think you could go into more depth on how they deal with the Fallen and the secret of it. If not, they shouldn't know about the Fallen at all.

I think the premise of their mission steps on the Officio Assassinorum's toes a bit, but it's not a huge deal
I understand that you want the whole "why twins and triplets" thing to be reserved for the story. I do believe it could be given a better exposition if this is the case. Make it more clear that no one knows why this quirk exists, instead of mentioning it and failing to give it a properly mysterious denoument.

Grey Knights are the only Chapter that can claim to have not a single member fall to Chaos.

108 or so out of 250 recruits is an abnormally high survival rate.

Also, Eisenhorn is a few hundred years old due to many juvenat treatments and surgeries.


This is another reason I think Space Marines should (but canonically, I know they don't) live longer than a few hundred years. Over the course of centuries of battle, a Space Marine should be a patchwork of bionics, replaced organs, Astartes physique, and have access to the best medicine being in a Chapter can afford (which isn't inconsiderable). Ergo, they should be able to live longer than the jumped-up nobility of some backwater planet (they get juvenat too).

But that's just me applying logic to 40k. There'd be a lot of retcons if that kind of antithesis of 40k were universally applied.

BA IA says Dante has lived for almost 1100 years.


Different sources say different things- even in their WD Codex, it states both that he has ruled the Chapter for a thousand years and that he has lived for over a thousand years within two pages! Normally I'd be inclined to go with the IA, but I kind of want Dante to be closer to a couple thou.

Edited by Imperialis_Dominatus, 13 August 2009 - 09:58 AM.

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#30
Ace Debonair

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Their founding is somewhere between the third and the fifth. This is all I wish to tell right now. This is also a part of the idea that has been tested and checked most rigorously, along with their origins as far as Legion/Geneseed goes.

I'm guessing... the fourth founding! :D

This chapter looks interesting, but I'm not sure that a chapter would make such drastic changes to it's heraldry and have everyone in different colours.
I might be wrong. If I am, I'm sure someone will enlighten me shortly. :D

The pictures are badass, by the way. :o

#31
Colrouphobic

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EDIT: That's right, I was here to critique a Chapter, not argue semantics on Marine lifespans.

Sweet art as always, colrouphobic. But a few points.



Everything is noted and taken into concideration.

Their founding is somewhere between the third and the fifth. This is all I wish to tell right now. This is also a part of the idea that has been tested and checked most rigorously, along with their origins as far as Legion/Geneseed goes.

I'm guessing... the fourth founding! :P

This chapter looks interesting, but I'm not sure that a chapter would make such drastic changes to it's heraldry and have everyone in different colours.
I might be wrong. If I am, I'm sure someone will enlighten me shortly. :P

The pictures are badass, by the way. :(


Cheers,
Yeah, they haven't altered their heraldry and organizatin that much. Concidering being a DA successor they have a lot of similarities, though their colours and names for things might vary the organization is still the same.

Noted it though, and taken into concideration.

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#32
Colrouphobic

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The Article has been modified and updated.
There are still quite some quirks to take out of this, and please bare with me. I am still designing the chapter proper.
The good news is that I am closing in on releasing the first parts of the novella, upon which the visual aspects of the chapter will become a bit more clear.
When part two of the series is released, most, if not all, of this has to have been sorted out proper.

C&C is welcome, please just remember that it still is very much in the making and thus you probably can/will find a lot of errors or issues... I'd like them to be taken up in a respectful way, I'm not lacking the knowledge, I'm just a bit disorganized and as such things might not be fully stamped out or I might simply have written down a "cool idea" and then forgotten to back it up with the correct fluff.
Please DO point out blatant issues, as I will take anything into consideration (and have, the latest edit mended a lot of things taken up before in this very topic).

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#33
Pulse

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The major fault i have managed to find, is the size of the fleet. Three large battle barges and ten smaller is rediciously large, even the most powerful fleet based chapters only have two, rarely some have three so for your chapter to have thirteen is excessive!

#34
Colrouphobic

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The major fault i have managed to find, is the size of the fleet. Three large battle barges and ten smaller is rediciously large, even the most powerful fleet based chapters only have two, rarely some have three so for your chapter to have thirteen is excessive!

Cheers, I'm working on that.
The major issue for me has been to figure the sizes of the various classes of ships, and to be honest I havent gotten to that part just yet, but it is good to get it mentioned (as it mean I am penning it down on my to-do-list right next to me here :lol: )

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#35
Pulse

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The major issue for me has been to figure the sizes of the various classes of ships, and to be honest I havent gotten to that part just yet, but it is good to get it mentioned (as it mean I am penning it down on my to-do-list right next to me here :P )

  • A Battlebarge is around the same size as an Imperial Class Battleship which is around 15 kilometres in length.
  • A Strike Crusier between 9-11 kilometres
  • Frigates between 6-8 kilometres
  • Destroyers between 3-5 kilometres
  • Rapid Strike Vessels (Sword, Firestorm & Cobra class Frigates): 1-2 kilometers

Chapter fleet size;
  • Battlebarges: 1 or 2 generally, rarely will a chapter have more - Exorists are the only offically stated chapter to have 3.
  • Strike Cruiser: Ideally a chapter will have 1 per company making 10 in total (if your chapter is Codex and has 10 companies)
  • Frigates: Ideally your looking 2 per Strike Crusier making 20 in total
  • Destroyers: Ideally looking at 4 per Strike Crusier making that 80 in total
  • Rapid Strike Vessels (Sword, Firestorm & Cobra class Frigates): Could be anything from 100-200 in total.
That is an ideal list, but some chapters will have more or less of each class (except the Battlebarge) due to battle damage, available resources, pacts with Forge worlds etc etc etc

Example of a Task force;

  • 1 Strike Cruiser (transporting 1 Space Marine company)
  • 2 Frigates
  • 4 Destroyers
  • 16 Rapid Strike Vessels
  • = 23 ships

Edited by Pulse, 01 April 2012 - 01:58 PM.


#36
Marshal Rohr

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Pulse also keep in mind the wild variations in the size of the starships. His fleet may be 3 Battle Barges, 10 Strike Cruisers, etc, but they may be outgunned by a fleet with small numbers but more powerful ships of other classes of battle barge.

Im digging the Islamic Angelic theme. My Arabic Teacher gave us a run down of it once and I have never taken so many notes in my life.

Your opinion is important, and someone posting here probably does care what you think. You should go tell them. Remember that it really hurts to come up with an idea you care about and have no one else care. Go care about something and tell them what you think. Now. Think of what it would have meant to you when you were young.

 

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#37
Pulse

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Pulse also keep in mind the wild variations in the size of the starships. His fleet may be 3 Battle Barges, 10 Strike Cruisers, etc, but they may be outgunned by a fleet with small numbers but more powerful ships of other classes of battle barge.

Yeh i know mate i was just throwing some figures around. :D

Im digging the Islamic Angelic theme. My Arabic Teacher gave us a run down of it once and I have never taken so many notes in my life.

You could have just read the Qur'an, or even just spoken to an Ulama or Imam without needing to take notes! ^_^

Edited by Pulse, 01 April 2012 - 06:13 PM.


#38
Colrouphobic

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Updated with final size of fleet (yes, It is large, but I make the calls and they are weighed for more then eight years, the only thing I lacked was sizes of the vessels).


Also, I do believe that the Black Templars have a fleet that is at least 5 times as large as you describe Pulse. So in the end, I think that there are no real "rules" as to how many vessels of each size a chapter can have, in the end it is a matter of possibility and what is is meant for.

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#39
Pulse

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Updated with final size of fleet (yes, It is large, but I make the calls and they are weighed for more then eight years, the only thing I lacked was sizes of the vessels).

Also, I do believe that the Black Templars have a fleet that is at least 5 times as large as you describe Pulse. So in the end, I think that there are no real "rules" as to how many vessels of each size a chapter can have, in the end it is a matter of possibility and what is is meant for.


Trouble is, there are rules to a degree, too many and the Inquisition will come kicking down your door with help from the Grey Knights and the Minotaurs and you won't survive.

As for Black Templars their fleet is only rumoured to be oversized, its never been confirmed in any source.

--

Still though the changes you have made look good, i like the sound of the world ships! :)

Edited by Pulse, 02 April 2012 - 01:37 PM.


#40
Heru

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The major fault i have managed to find, is the size of the fleet. Three large battle barges and ten smaller is rediciously large, even the most powerful fleet based chapters only have two, rarely some have three so for your chapter to have thirteen is excessive!

I disagree with your statement here, based purely on the grounds of what was said in Battlefleet Gothic's Imperial Vessels pdf.

Most Space Marine Chapters control two or three battle barges.

That doesn't make three sound all that rare at all.

Edited by Heru Talon, 02 April 2012 - 02:31 PM.

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#41
Pulse

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Most Space Marine Chapters control two or three battle barges.

That doesn't make three sound all that rare at all.

I must have skimmed over that bit as i didn't even see it! :D

I only went on the Badab War IA's said that the Exorcists have an "unusually high number of three battlebarges"

Ah well whatever the case i retract my statement on three being rare. ;)

Edited by Pulse, 02 April 2012 - 07:25 PM.


#42
Conn Eremon

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Part of me is always rather frustrated when I find a DIY faction that is incredibly close, but not quite a match, to one of my ideas. Like right now. I have a feeling that if I ever get around to writing about it here and you ever read it, it will be very familiar to you.

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#43
Colrouphobic

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Part of me is always rather frustrated when I find a DIY faction that is incredibly close, but not quite a match, to one of my ideas. Like right now. I have a feeling that if I ever get around to writing about it here and you ever read it, it will be very familiar to you.

Though I understand that one might not come past and see things in the DIY sector all too often, I _have_ been working on this for the better part of nine years..it technically should not come as a huge surprise :blush:

That said: I think that there is room for it you know.
Since GW owns the IP, I can hardly hit down on you for having a similar IP, though this is a DIY that is for the purpose of a graphic novel I am writing (and pretty done with the writing part for book one actually).

I don't see any harm in you having a tabletop diy chapter that is similar.. :)

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#44
Conn Eremon

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Part of me is always rather frustrated when I find a DIY faction that is incredibly close, but not quite a match, to one of my ideas. Like right now. I have a feeling that if I ever get around to writing about it here and you ever read it, it will be very familiar to you.

Though I understand that one might not come past and see things in the DIY sector all too often, I _have_ been working on this for the better part of nine years..it technically should not come as a huge surprise :)

That said: I think that there is room for it you know.
Since GW owns the IP, I can hardly hit down on you for having a similar IP, though this is a DIY that is for the purpose of a graphic novel I am writing (and pretty done with the writing part for book one actually).

I don't see any harm in you having a tabletop diy chapter that is similar.. :D


Oh hell, I'm still going to go through with the chapter, I just might not write about it here. The minor frustration is not "Damn it, now I can't do my idea" and most definitely not "Damn it, someone stole my idea!" but more like "Well damn, guess the idea is not all that unique." Which is to be expected, but expecting and encountering are two different things. And I admit I'm more amused and delighted than frustrated. For one thing, I love the artwork in the first post. Not sure if it's yours or not, but it's good. Part of me wants to shift the colors scheme of my version to match yours just so I can use them as representations. But then, I tend to grow rather attached to first color schemes I apply to a Chapter.

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#45
Colrouphobic

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Oh hell, I'm still going to go through with the chapter, I just might not write about it here. The minor frustration is not "Damn it, now I can't do my idea" and most definitely not "Damn it, someone stole my idea!" but more like "Well damn, guess the idea is not all that unique." Which is to be expected, but expecting and encountering are two different things. And I admit I'm more amused and delighted than frustrated. For one thing, I love the artwork in the first post. Not sure if it's yours or not, but it's good. Part of me wants to shift the colors scheme of my version to match yours just so I can use them as representations. But then, I tend to grow rather attached to first color schemes I apply to a Chapter.



All the artwork in this topic is mine.
Cheers!

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