16 replies to this topic

[the akratic]

I've just started space wolves, and as a new loyalist player (death guard and nids are my other armies) I'm looking for some advice on a transport that was previously unavailable to me.

I've got a couple grey hunter squads tooled up already. Each includes a fist, a power weapon, and a melta. The other three models are carrying a bolter and CCW. I want to mount these squads, in HB razorbacks, but i'm sorta confused on the function of such a unit. . .

Are razorbacks designed to speed up front and drop off troops immediately, then lend a hand with some support fire after the cargo's been unloaded?

Or should i be popping shots off before I drive up?

These Grey hunter squads are tooled up for CC, and one round of short ranged fire fight. So I'm thinking, drive up a full 12 inches, pop smoke, then get the Razorback to start shooting after?

Sorry if this has been covered before.

[Jonny Wolf]

I use my Razorback in a support by fire role.

If I charge with a Land Raider and assault, I'll have my Razorback near by. Everyone dismounts - shoot the hell out of whatever we're going to assault and then have the Land Raider wolves assault it.

Then I use the Razorback squad to defend the assaulting force as they finish the fight.

Additionally, I use the Razorback squad to seize/hold objectives.

I don't spend any points on PFs for these guys, just keep em shooty. (Bolters & Plasma Gun).

Edited by Jonny Wolf, 22 July 2008 - 07:45 PM.

[Bobman]

I've always used my Razorback in a support role too. Holding objectives and suppressing fire. But I've only got one.

[Coverfire]

So far under the fifth edition rules I have found that they can now last the entire game without dying
in a fireball of exploding wreckage because a single ricocheting round found the cooling vent to the
very unstable power system causing it to go up in a Death Star type scenario.

I tend to move my HB Razorback to an objective that has both decent line of sight and cover from
certain angles. From there it is a matter of how the game is progressing whether to disembark or keep
the troops inside. Since troops rushing out of a Rhino wreckage are no longer subject to the entranglement
rules of 4th edition.

Razorbacks with Lascannons I have not used yet but would probably hug the flanks of the table for the most
part. Taking pot shots at enemy army whenever I could and dropping the Grey Hunters on an objective
mid-game or reinforcing wherever they may be needed at that stage of the game.

[Cyclops]

Razorbacks are designed to be used for driving a squad to where they need to be, laying down cover fire as it goes. Of course, with the use of Smoke Launchers blocking shooting, and the fact nearly EVERYONE uses them first round to keep transports alive, it does become more like the "drive up a full 12 inches, pop smoke, then get the Razorback to start shooting after" you mention.

Of course, if this particular razorback doesnt find a need for using Smoke Launchers or driving that fast (that Nid army forgot its Venom Cannons, or the Orks left their shooty in their other trukk) they can shoot their heart out. Of course, they can also be taken specifically for shooting, but they are a bit of an expensive Lascannon.... (then again, one of my setups involve my Long Fangs supported by a Lascannon Razorback for extra shooty - expensive but fun to see)
((Oh, and not to mention "HA! Twin-Linked!"))


Little thing I did when putting mine together - Dont glue the top plate (with the weapon hole) to the rest of the hull. Instead, keep it separate and also put together the Rhino-top for that area separately - And now you have either a Rhino or Razorback depending on what you need it for!

[the jeske]

having 6 man squads in a sm army in the 5th edition is a very , very bad idea . specially as those are hth units . razorbacks are support units but in the end unless you play big games [2kpts and up] there isnt enough pts to put in to them . and you need 2/3 minimum , one will get blown up too fast . maybe its worth taking with long fangs , but then again why would someone take those at all.

[kanaellars]

having 6 man squads in a sm army in the 5th edition is a very , very bad idea . specially as those are hth units . razorbacks are support units but in the end unless you play big games [2kpts and up] there isnt enough pts to put in to them . and you need 2/3 minimum , one will get blown up too fast . maybe its worth taking with long fangs , but then again why would someone take those at all.

I agree completely. I have never come up with any reason to build a 6 man Grey Hunter Squad, and thus, my 10 man Hunters are always mounted in a Rhino.

In that case, the Rhinos job is to get them to where they are needed and then if need be act as mobile cover for them once there.

As far as the Razorback... I always let them carry my Long Fangs, the role they were designed for. What I do is I take a Razorback with the OPPOSITE weapon of my Fangs... ie... if I have a Long Fang pack with anti-personel guns, the RB gets a lascannon, but if the LFs have anti-tank then the RB gets a Heavy Bolter.

That way the RB can help 'fill in' whatever the LFs cant do, supporting them and protecting them.

[Thylacine]

Razorbacks will be so much better under the new rules, simply because glancing shots won't destroy them, to use them as fire support or for tank killing depends on what guns they have on top. With only a capacity of six I tend to use mine for tank hunting. All take extra armour, smoke launchers and a searchlight as searchlights were too good to give up under 4th ed rules. The pack inside takes two plasma pistols, a meltagun, power fist and power weapon, they can jump out and shoot to kill (a plasma gun looks good now too) or race to hold an objective.

I know one player down here that has a full Razorback mounted army, his games are a bit hit and miss, it is a good concept and I have seen him steamroller some armies but struggle against others.

Have fun.

[Wolf89]

While it is risky (as others have said fielding such a small GH unit) don't forget you can hold an objective quite easily with a squad that contains 2 plasma pistols, plasma gun, and 3 bolters not to mention the TL HB's firing away as well.

I'd mainly recommend them holding a table edge that's closest to you, as your supporting units across the board will likely be aiding other objective holders where you'd want larger units capturing. Keeping the smaller units closer to you means the enemy will have a longer time getting there, and you'll have plenty of fire power to deal with them.

Also use common sense, if your opponent has nice pie plates, you may want to spread out more, hide behind cover, get out of his range for the time being and then rush in towards the last minute. It really depends on the others lists, but as for taking a razorback, the best way that I find is with my Long fangs who currently roll more of a ML heavy unit so the razorback has HB's. With grey hunters of course they'll be at more of a risk, but like I said, use LoS to your advantage and just be smart with it.

[saphius]

I don't own a single rhino and run all mech lists. (Always hated Rhino's, odd I know.) I'm a huge fan of Razorbacks and Drop Pods and an occasional Land raider. Reason I've always hated Rhino's is their weak armor. While razorbacks have the same, they are more for sitting back, or as a support role. (To something like Bloodclaws or WG in a Land Raider/Drop Pod).

Also, I've been hearing that Razorbacks are going to be getting more weapon options, for me the Lascannon Twin plasma guns is the favorite for sitting back, (sec edition Models finally get use again) and Twin Flamers for rushing. While this is speculation, I'm excited to see what their options will be.

[Max_Dammit]

ive heard twin assault cannons somewhere

[saphius]

I have also heard that, twin multi Meltas as well. Not sure on the rest?

[Wolf89]

Twin plasma would sell me, the melta's would be a nice possibility as well, but the plasma is the kicker

[OGNaaman]

Try not to think of a squad as an independant entity. Instead, try thinking of them as a part of a larger group of troops that all share the same mission, but each squad has a specific role to fill in that mission.

For example, I like to break my army up into task forces. This is where the razorback can really shine. I like to take, for example, a Wolf Guard pack leader, 5 Grey Hunters and put them in a razorback. Then, to support this unit, I might take an attack bike squadron or a dreadnought with equipment depending upon the mission of the whole element. So, the element looks something like this:

1 Wolf Guard
5 Grey Hunters (2 power weapons, 1 melta gun)
1 Razorback (Twin-linked lascannon, hunter-killer missile)
3 Attack Bikes (Twin-linked bolters, 3 multi-meltas) OR 1 Dreadnought (Multi-melta, missile launcher)

This element's mission would be to move into a place of tactical advantage and either take it from a heavily armored enemy element, or else defend against such an element. The long ranged firepower is limited, so it's most useful in dense terrain, or at least with lots of cover. In any case, configure the options to the element's greater mission, and use the strengths of one piece of the element to off set the weaknesses of the other.

I think you'll find that your weapons are most effective when large amounts of them are used together. The case above may be a slightly bad example, since melta weapons are probably the one exception to this (they usually need only one or two shots at most to destroy their target if they are within "melta" range).

The nice thing is that you have flexibility in that you are dealing with 2 or more separate force organization options, so if necessary, the can "break coherencey" (not that you have to keep them within 2" but they should always stay relatively close to each other) to out maneuver your enemy or else catch him in a pincer etc.

The element above is fully capable of anti-personnel firepower, given the Grey Hunters and either the twin-linked bolters on bikes or the dreadnought's missile launcher (and of course the melta weapons are almost guaranteed to kill) so they are not defenseless against a small assault force.

In any case, the razorback is best used when it can support an element AND is supported by another element.

[saphius]

I agree with OG for the most part. Just it's Illegal to have 5 Grey Hunters and a Pack Leader. (Grey Hunters are 6-10 last I checked.) Other than that, Sound strategy.

[JCarter]

6xGH and an R-back are about the same cost as 10 x GH. The R-backs provide he squad with a lot more fire power and hold down casualties at first. If you take TLLC R-backs, you can dispense with HS in most circumstances and have more squads to take objectives.

[OGNaaman]

I agree with OG for the most part. Just it's Illegal to have 5 Grey Hunters and a Pack Leader. (Grey Hunters are 6-10 last I checked.) Other than that, Sound strategy.

Woops! Got confused bit. So it should be 6 Grey Hunters, instead of the 5+ Wolf Guard. Same general effect, though.