28 replies to this topic

[muzzyman1981]

If I make one of my Blood Claw pack or Grey Hunter pack models a Sgt would that cost more in points with extra stats or are they considered part of the pack and have the same stats?

[Ranek Icewalker]

Look in the dex they have far better stats, so they are inparticularlly good for Bcs because they have 2 attacks base, plus charge, and they are seperate, but a way many people make thier sergents is they use the wolf pelt models with the boss pole and the wolf backpack and make it the WGPL, but there are actual models for wolf guard in power armor and they are nice, but rather rare, and they are oop, so they are not available online or in stores(except in Out Of Print boxes, so they are hard to find, but the man with the pelt is the usual squad leader, and it is cheaper.

[muzzyman1981]

I am looking in my SW dex and don't see anything about a Sgt in the Blood Claw or Grey Hunter sections.

[Grantyr Greymantle]

Muzzy,

Wolves don't have Sgts…we use Wolf Guard Pack Leaders instead…look those bad boys up in yer codex

[Ranek Icewalker]

Look into the elites they are called Wolf Guard Pack leaders...I know, our dex is kinda wierd, they are 30 pts plus guns and they are right above the regular wolf guard.

[muzzyman1981]

Ok I'm seeing them although I thought those were regular Wolf Guard who cost a bit extra to put into a pack...when I read the info on the Games Workshop site for the Grey Hunters and Blood Claws it mentioned that there are parts for a Sgt (which packs have, Sgt Harkon from the Space Wolf Omnibus). I was just wondering if I make one of the models look more Sgt-ish if it would cost anything extra, I don't mean the Wolf Guard Pack Leader.

[Grantyr Greymantle]

Sargeants?…we don't need no stinkin sargeants!

Edited by Grantyr Greymantle, 24 July 2008 - 11:26 PM.

[muzzyman1981]

LOL every unit would need a sargeant, someone has to keep those pups in check! So I take it no extra stats for a Sgt?, just extra looks?

[Jonny Wolf]

Brother Muzzy,
there are no sergeants. There are pack leaders (the strongest BC or GH in the pack) but he gets no extra stats or gear. You could give your pack leader a PF and PP for example, but he's still a regular GH.

That's why we have WG's attached to the pack...or/and IC.

Edited by Jonny Wolf, 25 July 2008 - 12:53 AM.

[muzzyman1981]

Awesome, thank you =) Although I still believe that Blood Claws have Sgts....I doubt they would be allowed to run around without any manner of leadership beyond a pack leader who has the same combat experience as his wolf brothers.

In any case as for my question it has been answered =)

[Bran Scalphunter]

Nope, no Sarges for us Wolves. What we get is a WGPL from the Elite choice, who is kick arse regardless. Fluffwise, every pack has an "alpha", the strongest most skilled member when there isn't a Wolf Guard or Character leading them. Same applies to Blood Claws and Wolf Scouts. The only exception is the Long Fangs, but they get Split Fire to make up, so it's okay.

[Wolf89]

Look at it this way, you don't want to be caught "goofing" off by a Wolf Lord or another high ranking official because then they'll have hell to pay

But as stated, we don't have Sgts, just the option to take WGL's in a pack (which are WAY better than sgts.) It's also very fluffy and gives you nice conversion options.

I put most of my more recent WGL's and Hq's on larger bases (the new TDA size ones) as it really makes them stand out more and gives more basing options.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The Ragnar series is probably the source of this confusion, as several times Ragnar is named as a sergeant 2nd in charge even though the Pack already has a Wolf Guard Leader.

kieran

[Haegr]

yeh, the wolf series does that alot, with sven, ragnar and strybjorn (i think) becoming pack leaders in some casses, but it doesnt have it in the codex, coz we have WG to lead our squads into battle

Ragnar was also known to be with the Blood Claws during Wolf Lord, due to liking being with the hot-blooded BC's, but that said, SW's would be awesome (i guess) if we had the sergeant option in the next codex

[Grantyr Greymantle]

I'll take a Pack Leader over an Astartes Sgt anyday

[Vodunius]

The Ragnar series is probably the source of this confusion, as several times Ragnar is named as a sergeant 2nd in charge even though the Pack already has a Wolf Guard Leader.

Quoted for Truth.

Tho there is a reason for it:
first Ragnar book copyright = 1999
3e Space Wolf Codex copyright = 2000

So when the author familiarised himself with the fluff he would have had to use the 2nd edition codex, in which all Space Wolf Packs came with Sergeant as standard in addition to having the option to add a Wolf Guard.

Edited by Vodunius, 25 July 2008 - 03:44 PM.

[Eirik_Xenobane]

I see Space Wolves operating, surprisnigly enough, like wolves. The strongest and most skilled of the pack adopts the position of pack leader, in the style of the wolves this isn't offcialy recognised but this lad would be the one who has to keep his pack in line and probably and catch the flak if they screw up.

If a pack hasn't got a strong leader or if the pack leader isn't really qualified *he may be a tough git but lacks leadership skills) a Wolf Guard would either be assigned or assighn himself to the pack to show them some real leadership skills.

That's how I see it anyhow.

[Jonny Wolf]

Brother Erik,
couldn't agree more.

[muzzyman1981]

The Ragnar series is probably the source of this confusion, as several times Ragnar is named as a sergeant 2nd in charge even though the Pack already has a Wolf Guard Leader.

kieran

Actually Sgt Hakon is refered to as the Sgt and Ragnar is refered to as the pack leader as he constantly challenges Hakon and is challenged by Sven and the rest of the pack. When Hakon is wounded during the assault to retake the temple with Russ' spear (can't remember right off the top of my head the name of the planet) Ragnar is promoted to Sgt of the pack by Wolf Lord Barek Thunderfist.

There actually IS the rank of Sgt in the pack, according to the Space Wolf Omnibus written by William King...also the details of the Grey Hunters and Blood Claw box sets state : "and includes options for a Sergeant, a variety of weapons, wargear options and extra details." Coming directly from Games Workshop I am taking that at face value =)

At least that is what my memory gives me...

[Grantyr Greymantle]

Muzzy,

I think you can look through your codex till the wolves come home and not find stats or wargear or any other options for a Sarge. But you will find all the above for a Wolf Guard Leader…

[muzzyman1981]

That is the answer to my question then....Sgts have no extra options or added points.

My original post asked wether or not a Sgt cost extra points or had any extra features not wether or not they existed, as ALL military organizations have the rank of Sgt, even the Space Wolves. The highest ranking member of a pack will be the Pack Leader, wether that be a Wolf Guard, a Sgt, or the best pack member who stands above his peers within the pack, those are ALL pack leaders.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Just model a particularly impressive Blood Claw or Grey Hunter and say they're the Sergeant.

He'd be the guy with the power sword.

Speaking of which. With the loss of attacks for power fists is it worth changing some power fists to power weapons... though of course power weapons may have more attacks, but they're still only strength 4. I think it's time to add pack leaders to all our squads. Power weapons for the troops, power fists on the pack leaders. Two attacks are twice as good as one.

[muzzyman1981]

Thats what I was going to do, although he doesn't have to be a Sgt as not all packs will have Sgts especially Grey Hunters as they have less of a need for experienced leaders to keep them in line as Blood Claws do.

[The God Emperor]

Since we're on about Pack Leaders, should I give my Wolfguards a pair of powerfist? I got the web exlusive sergeant mini from GW and he came with a left-handed powerfist and I just happened to have a right handed powefist around.

Should I give him the pair of mega-gloves or his standard load-out? e.g. bolter & powefist.

[Beef]

according to the Sw omibus by william King (who gave us most of the SW Fluff) SW do indeed have SGTS. According to ben counters novel a SW wolfgaurd is a captain. Wolfgaurd probably stranslates to sargent in gothic.