25 replies to this topic

[Wolf89]

Well with the heavy weapons rule, I've been playing around with WGBL's a lot, and I've done some many tasty things including a WGBG with 4 combi-flamers in a drop pod with a WGBL with a heavy flamer with 4 wolves... oh yes... the purgation

Also playing around with the WGBL in TDA leading a grey hunter squad using an assault cannon, also using 4 fenrisian wolves with him. This is probably my most favorite, but it's a lot of points added into a grey hunter squad, and I'm not sure if I'd like about 150 extra points put into a grey hunter squad just for an assault cannon to be firing at the same squad as my bolters are. Also not being able to cart them around in a rhino makes me leary.

Using the same WGBL as above (assault cannon and 4 fenrisian wolves) but just keeping him by himself, out in the open, not a hot Idea, but if he follows behind a rhino or something he shouldn't do too bad (wish you could just put him and the 4 wolves in a drop pod )

Also using the WGBL with a cyclone ML 4 wolves attached to a GH squad, this would be pretty nice because for the first 1-2 turns I'd have a very nifty tank hunting weapon and afterwards a decent infantry weapon.

Then again, why not just keep him by himself with 4 wolves, set him behind a GH squad, shoot the hell out of stuff, then when something comes to munch on some GH's I have a nasty HtH unit right behind them

Then I thought well, what if I don't give him TDA, just normal power armor, forget the whole FAQ about giving him heavy weapons and just keep him cheap and take advantage of his retinue rules and slap him in a BC squad or something.

I guess it boils down to this, what units will be running (negating any effort to have my WGBL shoot) and what are the advantages to having the WGBL attached to a squad and will it end up getting me more points.

The more I think about it, the more I wish GW didn't give us this option in the FAQ it just makes it about 1000X harder to create lists.

PS: please someone find me a way to put a WGBL and 4 fenrisian wolves into a drop pod by themselves and I'll show you a happy man.

Edited by Wolf89, 26 July 2008 - 05:40 AM.

[Dark Bjoern]

ATM i have only one WGBL and he´s attached to my BC bikes. But i´m working on a WGBL in PA with five WG in PA in a Razorback. I´m not sure what i like more.
1) All shooty with combi plasmas
or
2) All CC. The WGBL with Frostblade and PP, 1 WG with twin LC and 4 with PP/PW. With Wolfpelt and Wolf Tooth Necklace they could be very nasty.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

not to sound rude or anything, but i feel that equipping a WGBL with heavy weapons is a mistake, or atleast an abuse of the rules. I have seen the FAQ that allows a heavy weapon termie WGBL, but feel this is ANOTHER of GWs mistakes that will be fixed...well, not soon cause its GW, but it will be fixed.

I wont personally be doing this because it makes me feel more like a power gamer than anything else i have done while playing Warhammer (FB and 40k) these past seven years.

oh well. to the topic at hand.

I wont be fielding my WGBL in TDA armor, he stays with his power armor attached to a Grey Hunter Pack. My WGBL is a low point HQ, running only 120 points (thats cheap from what i used to do), and he needs to be where the metal meets the meat, in the thick of things. In his case, that means attaching to a GH pack while my WOlf Priest attacks to another, both in Rhinos.

wolf lord kieran (sorry about my soapbox)

[Rabid Dwarf]

I'm very new to this whole thing (all of 40k, not just the glory that is the space wolves), so anything I say needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

In looking to put together my first wolf-pack, I was looking to use 2 WGBL (one with frost axe/bolter and one with dual lightning claws) and attaching them to full Blood Claw packs.

Is this a mistake? Should I use WGPL with the BCs and use the WGBLs with GHs?

I just assumed they would want to be up front and lead the charge, and the BCs are much more charge happy than the GHs.

Thanks

[Gunstar]

not to sound rude or anything, but i feel that equipping a WGBL with heavy weapons is a mistake, or atleast an abuse of the rules. I have seen the FAQ that allows a heavy weapon termie WGBL, but feel this is ANOTHER of GWs mistakes that will be fixed...well, not soon cause its GW, but it will be fixed.

I wont personally be doing this because it makes me feel more like a power gamer than anything else i have done while playing Warhammer (FB and 40k) these past seven years.

oh well. to the topic at hand.

I wont be fielding my WGBL in TDA armor, he stays with his power armor attached to a Grey Hunter Pack. My WGBL is a low point HQ, running only 120 points (thats cheap from what i used to do), and he needs to be where the metal meets the meat, in the thick of things. In his case, that means attaching to a GH pack while my WOlf Priest attacks to another, both in Rhinos.

wolf lord kieran (sorry about my soapbox)

Kieran- check the FAQ's before posting- the most recent SW FAQ states-

Q. Can a wolf Guard Battle Leader select Wolf Guard Bodyguard Heavy weapons?
A. Yes.

So you can climb off your soap box now-

[Freman Bloodglaive]

That was the mistake he is sure will be corrected.

The WGBL I'm playing around with combine a frost blade and storm shield. For 90 points they add a lot of combat effectiveness to a Grey Hunter or Blood Claw pack.

[Icewolf]

I think that in the new codex a WGBL will be unable to take heavy weapons as if he took an assault cannon it would be BS 5 and lots of people would proably scream cheese espercially if he is in a wolf guard body guard pack with 3 other assault cannons and then in an LRC which has a twin-linked assault cannon

Icewolf

[Wolf89]

Please stay on topic, this post isn't about whether or not you agree with the FAQ, it's there and it's going to be used, if people say it's cheese then they can enjoy a dock in points (what? an expensive mandatory HQ unit can be made even more expensive given a heavy weapon to lower it's CC attacks so it kills less in HtH? how cheesy I'm docking you points you scrub... Yes, cheese)

A cheap WGBL is bolt pistol power weapon and rolls cheaper than some WGPL's I've fielded and is quite deadlier, the problem is you want to keep him alive, so giving him a SS becomes common, or TDA.

I like the idea of WGBL with some WGBG in a razorback or rhino then popping out to unleash a hell of plasma fire
The cheapest that unit could be is probably 300-350 points, but it would decimate anything when they come out, and if you put TL las on the razorback, popped a land raider, out came terminators then you unleashed plasma hell you're sure to get your points (if not double) back in that instant.

[Quillen]

My WGBL have Plasma Pistols and Frost Blades. I stick them with Blood Claws/Blood Claw Bikes/Grey Hunters. Their only mission is to kill off troop choices of the enemy. I use other things to hunt tanks and what not. They go in and cut a squad to ribbons and are in power armor so they can sweeping advance. With the new rules on that thou. Guess it doesn't really matter.

Some how I missed a WGBL being able to carry an Assault cannon. So basicly you could have a guy with an Assault cannon with a WG Body gaurd carring 3 Assault cannons? Making it possable to have 4 freaking assualt cannons? IS this correct? LOL

If so I am breaking out my old Terminators and giving them a cleaning. RAAAAWR! Whirling engine sound and massive ripping rounds fly in all directions. MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

If nothing else I would lov e to model the Wolf Gaurd BL with the Assault Cannon in all his Glory.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

That was the mistake he is sure will be corrected.

The WGBL I'm playing around with combine a frost blade and storm shield. For 90 points they add a lot of combat effectiveness to a Grey Hunter or Blood Claw pack.

right you are Brother Freeman, i am happy somebody here read it before going off half-cocked.

and how survivable is your WGBL? cause the storm sheild removes an attack, and doesnt provide a save from shooting. but it is much cheaper.

wolf lord kieran

[Eirik_Xenobane]

Eldar Autarchs can have heavy weapons and I NEVER field my Grey Knight Grandmaster without a Pyscannon, so there is precedents.

A BS 5 Assault cannon is a thing of beauty and the idea of 4 assault cannons in one squad makes me drool. It may be beardy, but the Grey Knights set a clear precedent for Imperial commanders in terminator armour having heavy weapons.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

you could argue that the GKs lack real heavy support options (aside from Dreads and LRs), so they gave them that option for a boost. sides, a psycannon is hardly as effective as an assault cannon against the average enemy army. (thought it is wonderful against daemons)

the eldar auratach is effectively an super aspect warrior, so they need to be able to take the gear of the various aspects. thats understandable.

why troubles me the most is that they way i see it, a WGBL should either get weapons from option A (normal equipment) or option B (as a Wolf Guard). Option B takes away a frost weapon for him

wolf lord kieran

[Wolf89]

Again guys, keep off the topic of weather or not you agree with the WGBL rule, the bottom line is that until further notice we CAN do it, so please provide helpful additions to this topic.

As for the storm shield, it may be even more viable with the next marine dex when apparently it'll be effective against shooting (like it was in 2nd edition worked against shooting) and be a 3+ invuln (this is yet to be seen but it seems viable) as this improvement will most certainly raise the costs, I'd be seeing about taking more of them, until then 5+ invuln. is more than enough especially with fenrisian wolves and some WGBG.

I tried the razorback with the combi-plasma today and it worked wonderfully, the problem was their points costs as they had a hard time getting them back, even with the huge punch in the beginning, they were then left with normal bolters trying to find assaults which they had reduced attacks, this unit I'd use more in 2000+ lists, but not for 1500-2000

[Gunstar]

That was the mistake he is sure will be corrected.

The WGBL I'm playing around with combine a frost blade and storm shield. For 90 points they add a lot of combat effectiveness to a Grey Hunter or Blood Claw pack.

right you are Brother Freeman, i am happy somebody here read it before going off half-cocked.

and how survivable is your WGBL? cause the storm sheild removes an attack, and doesnt provide a save from shooting. but it is much cheaper.

wolf lord kieran

Fair one- point taken and accepted! lol

[Freman Bloodglaive]

That was the mistake he is sure will be corrected.

The WGBL I'm playing around with combine a frost blade and storm shield. For 90 points they add a lot of combat effectiveness to a Grey Hunter or Blood Claw pack.

right you are Brother Freeman, i am happy somebody here read it before going off half-cocked.

and how survivable is your WGBL? cause the storm sheild removes an attack, and doesnt provide a save from shooting. but it is much cheaper.

wolf lord kieran

Because they get the pack to protect them from shooting (haven't played 5th yet, but getting overkill on a 15 man pack probably isn't easy) they don't need the shooting save but I gave them shields after all the times they'd die when I went after the Hive Tyrant/big gribbly monster/little gribbly monster etc). The most embarrassing time was when a WGBL was in a pack that got charged by Daemonettes. He counter attacked, got six attacks (bolt pistol, frost blade, wolf pelt) killed about 5 of them but got rended to death. Sure he wouldn't have as many attacks now, but he does have the chance of saving the rending wounds too.

[Bullet_magnet]

I ran a cheap WGBL against tau and he did excellently... that is unti he got popped in the back by a stealth team he had a runic charm, frost blade, TDA and Assualt cannon. blew up a devil fish and a couple of fire warriors and he didn't even make it into combat. I think he was 120 points not bad for an HQ although I have also had amazing success with PA to just pack him in a GH squad and a rhino and roll him a cross the field honestly he can work in either a mobile or static force either way you kit him out as long a he has some support. just build him to your playstyle. I might think about running 2 with one assault kit and another in TDA with a cyclone missle launcher and storm bolter, that way he can support a squad of long fands without tying up another units shooting ie. his retinue (thank you new blast template rules!)
P.S. I wish that I could be a happy man to but I have not found anything that might allow characters to take pods would be nice though...

[Wolf89]

I ran a cheap WGBL against tau and he did excellently... that is unti he got popped in the back by a stealth team he had a runic charm, frost blade, TDA and Assualt cannon. blew up a devil fish and a couple of fire warriors and he didn't even make it into combat. I think he was 120 points not bad for an HQ although I have also had amazing success with PA to just pack him in a GH squad and a rhino and roll him a cross the field honestly he can work in either a mobile or static force either way you kit him out as long a he has some support. just build him to your playstyle. I might think about running 2 with one assault kit and another in TDA with a cyclone missle launcher and storm bolter, that way he can support a squad of long fands without tying up another units shooting ie. his retinue (thank you new blast template rules!)
P.S. I wish that I could be a happy man to but I have not found anything that might allow characters to take pods would be nice though...

Give him some fenrisian wolves for extra survival

[Vash113]

I run two WGBL and both are in TDA. Any character that doesn't have an Invulnerable save already or a Belt of Russ gets Terminator Armor, but thats just me, I can't stand an IC without an Invulnerable Save of some kind, makes my teeth itch if they don't. I origionally had a Battle Leader in TDA and one in Power Armor and a Rune Priest in Power Armor but the lack of Invulnerables got to me so I slapped TDA on all of em. But I don't use heavy weapons on my characters, didn't know you could though the FAQ doesn't make any sense, WGBL's are a seperate option entirely I don't get why they would have the options of another unit but oh well thats GW for ya. Still mine don't have heavy weapons, just storm bolters. One WGBL has a Frost Blade, the other has a Power Weapon. Cheap, simple and effective and they draw tons of fire.

[Valdrog]

I have to say that 2 Wolf Guard Battle Leaders with full bodyguard and a Venerable Dread can dish out SEVEN assault cannon shots is a beautyful thing
Army builder wont let me give an assault cannon to all 3 of my wolfguard bodyguard, but it let me give the last guy a cyclone missile launcher.
Mount them all in 2 landraiders with 2 squads of grey hunters in Rhinos and you have a disturbing force in your hands.

Cheesecake anyone ?

[Wolf89]

I have to say that 2 Wolf Guard Battle Leaders with full bodyguard and a Venerable Dread can dish out SEVEN assault cannon shots is a beautyful thing
Army builder wont let me give an assault cannon to all 3 of my wolfguard bodyguard, but it let me give the last guy a cyclone missile launcher.
Mount them all in 2 landraiders with 2 squads of grey hunters in Rhinos and you have a disturbing force in your hands.

Cheesecake anyone ?

2 WGBL with full bodyguard and a Ven. Dread can dish out 36 assault cannon shots (24 from the 6 WGBG with assault cannons, 8 from the 2 WGBL's and 4 from the ven. dread) what you were probably saying is seven assault cannons but full bodyguard is 9 WBGB which 1 in every 3 (rounding fractions up) can have an assault cannon so you have 3 in each bodyguard squad plus one from the Wolf Guard Battle Leader leading them which makes 4 assault cannons in each squad.

In a crusader you could fit 8 terminators so you'd have to go with 7 bodyguard and 1 WGBL which still give you 8 assault cannons (unless you have only 3 WGBG in TDA for the assault cannons then the rest in PA then you could have a WGBG squad size of 9 and still have room to spare for another HQ.

This is a lot of points however as you'll be looking at for one WGBG squad with a WGBL as stated above inside a crusader looking at easily 600+ points and I just never liked "all my eggs in one basket"

[Valdrog]

oops, i was using army builder and it starts me off with 3 bodyguards so i kept them at that.
2 WGBL with 3 boduguards each in land raiders, the eggs are now in two baskets, but when those eggs are made of steel, whatever they hit wont be arround to say " just hit me?!" and with the new vehicle rules, Landraiders are super hard to kill.

[Wolf89]

oops, i was using army builder and it starts me off with 3 bodyguards so i kept them at that.
2 WGBL with 3 boduguards each in land raiders, the eggs are now in two baskets, but when those eggs are made of steel, whatever they hit wont be arround to say " just hit me?!" and with the new vehicle rules, Landraiders are super hard to kill.

With only 3 WGBG's you can only have 1 heavy weapon, and that's just a waste , so either get a 4th one in there (then you can take 2 heavy weapons) or don't bother taking them as 3 is just not enough.

[lance002]

When modeling TDA, do you use the "small" base or the larger base that comes with Space Marine terminators?

The Space Wolf Rune Priest in TDA sold on the GW website has the smaller base (at least in the picture). So do the Wolf Guard in Terminator Trooper and Wolf Guard Terminator with Cyclone Missle Launcher (etc.) in the Collectors section (but all of these older models have the smaller base including Librarians and Dark Angels).

I bought a Space Marine terminator Captain and it came with a small and a large base.

[Valerian]

When modeling TDA, do you use the "small" base or the larger base that comes with Space Marine terminators?

All of the old models came with the same size (25mm) base, so there are many models in the collectors range that won't come with the 40mm bases that are present in more recent Terminator boxed sets. Although you didn't have to (the 4th edition rules said to model with the base they came with, or a larger one at your option), it has been fairly common practice these past few years to upgrade Terminator bases to the larger size. A few years back I finally ripped the older bases off of my old Terminators from the early 90's and put them on the new ones. At the same time, I rebased my Ragnar and Wolf Priest to the larger sizes just to help those HQ elements stand out. The 5th edition rules say that you have to make sure that your opponent doesn't mind if you've mounted your models on different-sized bases than what they were supplied with; however, I seriously doubt that anyone will care that I've made those base changes.

Regards,

Valerian

[Bullet_magnet]

the FAQ doesn't make any sense, WGBL's are a seperate option entirely I don't get why they would have the options of another unit but oh well thats GW for ya.

dude I can't disagree more it absolutaly makes sense from a fluff stand point. In the fluff description for the WGBL it says that the Wolf Lord chooses these fine marines from the best of his Wolf Guard. not a direct quote but... how about a scenario Wolf Gaurd is issued a heavy weapon, wolf lord chooses said marine to help hi, lead the force, you get a heavy weapon carryin' WGBL. It does corespond with the fluff, I have to say though I have had quite a few eyebrows raised whenever I field him.