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tau help


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#1
@BLISSI15K5

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today i had a batle against tau and lost I would like some help on how to beat em.
List
mine

vendred PowerFist AC
BGBL frost axe joined to BC

4 wolf scouts PlasmaP PlasmaG

10 BC 1 PowerFist 1 PSword
10 GH 1 melta

3 bikers 1 atack bike hevy bolter

2 Preds both extra armour 1 twinlinked AC lazcannon the other Twin linke Lazcannons.

his

tau comander in batlegear 2+save fusion gun cylic ion blaster.

3 stealth suits

10 fire wariours
10 --------------
5 path finder
devil fish

2 paranas fusion gun burst cannon

1 hammer head railgun
and meny other upgrades i dont no the name of

my BC ran at the fire wariours with out being shot at
my tank blew up 1st turn 5 of my gh died vendred died by paranas
my blood claws killed 3 stealth suits 5 path finders and tried to kill comander.
it ended like 3 BC 2 GH all my bikers v all his armoured ships comander 1o 8 fire wariours
if you can give me eny tips or were i went rong that will be brill
:tu:

#2
Valhalla

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Your search fu is weak young Padiwan.

Looking at your list the first thing that comes to mind is where are your transports? Running across the board against a shooty army like Tau is never a good idea. I'd also drop the bikes for something else as IMHO the only space marine bikes worth taking are Ravenwing (teleport homer combined with Deathwing assault).

#3
OnlyInDeath

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I would keep the normal bikes, drip the attack bike for another normal bike. I have to disagree w/ the post above as bikes are VERY good at getting into CC vs tau where they are awful. Just use the terrain to keep them protected and turbo boost turn 1. Other than that, yeah, you need transports for your dudes if you are gonna try to slug it out with the tau. Otherwise they WILL shoot you up. Make a full squad of OBEL scouts as well as the tau will most likely just sit back and shoot the crap outta ya.
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#4
Nanostorm

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As a quite experienced Tau player my opinion is that you should be able to take his list.

He has surprisingly short reach to be a Tau player, the only weapons that have a range of over 30" are the railgun on the Hammerhead, all his other anti-tank weapons are range 12" (Fusion Blasters).

He also has only one XV-8 suit (the commander), and has kitted it out with weapons having a max range of 18" - good for you!

Based on that I'd agree with the idea of getting transports for your troops, as he has no Kroot-screen he will be very vulnerable to assault, and those Rhinos will help you get there faster.

Usually a Tau player would love to see an opponent lining up a couple of Rhinos in his deployment zone, as XV-8's with Missile Pods will stop them dead in their tracks (running two units of Deathrain suits (twin linked missile pods) usually stops both Rhinos in my first shooting phase, 5-6 str 7 hits will do that to a Rhino, smoke launchers or not.
He does not have a single Missile Pod in his list, so nothing to worry about there. Beware however that those Firewarriors can glance a Rhino with their str 5 Pulse Rifles with a lucky 6, so be careful.

I think the bikes are a good unit against this list, you may consider giving the bikers melta (if SW can have that, I don't know much about them) to try to pop that Hammerhead, any good Tau commander would take the Disruption Pod for the Hammerhead, giving it a automatic 4+ save against shooting, but remember that this is only against shooting from more than 12" from the skimmer, that means that you could waste a lot of shots with your lascannons without making as much as a scratch on the Hammerhead, but a couple of meltas inside those 12" could really ruin his day.

Assault Marines would also be god against his list (if you can take them).

I don't know if the Powerfist and Powerwpn are worth it against his list, as the most likely target for your blood claws are the pathfinders and Fire Warriors, and they will be loosing against the Blood Claws anyway, and you might in fact want the close combat to extend into his assault phase, so he does not get to shoot at you in his shooting phase. His unit of Stealth Suits will also go down to the BC's pretty easy, even without the powerfist/wpn.

His HQ you can afford to somewhat ignore because of the low range of his weapons (max 18") and the 2+ save. But remember that if you have clear line of sight with a lascannon one round you should take the shot. Shas'O and Shas'El are T4, so thats instakill if you manage to wound it (he might have a shield generator for that 4+ inv save, but I say it's still worth a shot).

His Piranhas will probably try to outflank you, drop their drones and then try for some shots against rear or side armor, do remember that drones can be a threat against your vehicles if they get the rear armor as their str 5 carabines can glance on a 5, and penetrate on a lucky 6. They are not very hard though, so a few shots their way will send the discs crashing to the ground.

hmmm.. I do feel a bit like a traitor to the Greater Good now, but good luck in your next battle against him :D

Rune

#5
@BLISSI15K5

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cant use transport tanks because they can be blown up in a matter of seconds he does have misiel pods i forgot them
ps when he fails 4+ inv save he still has feel no pain

Edited by @BLISSI15K5, 29 July 2008 - 08:03 PM.


#6
Vash113

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As a quite experienced Tau player my opinion is that you should be able to take his list.

He has surprisingly short reach to be a Tau player, the only weapons that have a range of over 30" are the railgun on the Hammerhead, all his other anti-tank weapons are range 12" (Fusion Blasters).


This is not unusual for many Tau armies, they wait for the enemy to get in close and then pulverise them and Piranhas are excelent at anti tank work as they are most often greatly underestimated. This doesn't mean he won't be able to deal with armor though, particularly lightweight Rhinos.

He also has only one XV-8 suit (the commander), and has kitted it out with weapons having a max range of 18" - good for you!


Also not necessarily, the Fusion Blaster is excelent for insta killing Marine HQ's and the Cyclic Ion Blaster is also not bad due to its rate of fire and AP-1 capability. The Tau commander is in a specialised role as he should be, which means he won't be a danger early on but when marines get close he has some nasty firepower available.

Based on that I'd agree with the idea of getting transports for your troops, as he has no Kroot-screen he will be very vulnerable to assault, and those Rhinos will help you get there faster.


This I have to disagree with, even Pulse Rifles aren't bad at killing Rhinos (I've done it rather often myself), while 5th Edition's sprint ability makes infantry pretty fast on their own. Also since you can't assault out of Rhinos the chances of being entangled and left out in the open are considerable and not to be ignored. I would say leave the rhinos at the Fang, Tau just turn them into so much scrap.

Usually a Tau player would love to see an opponent lining up a couple of Rhinos in his deployment zone, as XV-8's with Missile Pods will stop them dead in their tracks (running two units of Deathrain suits (twin linked missile pods) usually stops both Rhinos in my first shooting phase, 5-6 str 7 hits will do that to a Rhino, smoke launchers or not.
He does not have a single Missile Pod in his list, so nothing to worry about there. Beware however that those Firewarriors can glance a Rhino with their str 5 Pulse Rifles with a lucky 6, so be careful.


A lack of missile pods does not mean Rhinos will be a good idea or have an easy time. Fusion Blasters, pulse rifles, burst cannons, practically everything in the Tau list save the Ion Blaster will be able to stop the Rhinos in their tracks, never a good thing vs Tau IMO.

I think the bikes are a good unit against this list, you may consider giving the bikers melta (if SW can have that, I don't know much about them) to try to pop that Hammerhead, any good Tau commander would take the Disruption Pod for the Hammerhead, giving it a automatic 4+ save against shooting, but remember that this is only against shooting from more than 12" from the skimmer, that means that you could waste a lot of shots with your lascannons without making as much as a scratch on the Hammerhead, but a couple of meltas inside those 12" could really ruin his day.


I'm a bit out of practice but I've never run Disruption Pods on any vehicles nor have I seen others due this, perhaps its a change with 5th Edition effecting wargear but in any case I have to disagree here, the Hammerhead is not a primary concern or target and should not be the focus of the bikes until the infantry is dealt with. The Bikes however are a great idea and there I have to agree, however in application I'd say they are best used to lock Tau in combat while the rest of the force closes in. Run the Blood Claws and Grey Hunters across the field and turbo charge the bikes up a flank. By turn 2 or 3 while the infantry should still be out of rapid fire range of the Tau the bikes charge in and lock the Tau Firewarriors in close combat keeping the Infantry free from the nastiness of rapid fire pulse weapons and gives them a fighting chance to close the distance. Throw a Melta gun into the Grey Hunters and some Power Fists and the Tau vehicles shouldn't be too much of a problem but focus on the infantry first. The Tanks are nasty but overall their firepower is a lot less than that of the Tau Infantry and their BS isn't spectacular either even when upgraded, Hammerheads are potent but their real strength is as fire magnets, they draw attention from the rest of the army so that those Firewarriors and battlesuits can continue to sow destruction unhindered.

Assault Marines would also be god against his list (if you can take them).


No, no assault marines, too low WS and too high cost with Space Wolves, they aren't worth it.

I don't know if the Powerfist and Powerwpn are worth it against his list, as the most likely target for your blood claws are the pathfinders and Fire Warriors, and they will be loosing against the Blood Claws anyway, and you might in fact want the close combat to extend into his assault phase, so he does not get to shoot at you in his shooting phase. His unit of Stealth Suits will also go down to the BC's pretty easy, even without the powerfist/wpn.


At least one power fist should be in each squad, insta killing the Commander and Stealth Suits is a nice thing to be able to do, it may make combat a bit shorter but a couple fists shouldn't turn the tables quickly anyway and besides the Tau units most likely won't survive the first round of combat anyway, there just aren't enough of them.

His HQ you can afford to somewhat ignore because of the low range of his weapons (max 18") and the 2+ save. But remember that if you have clear line of sight with a lascannon one round you should take the shot. Shas'O and Shas'El are T4, so thats instakill if you manage to wound it (he might have a shield generator for that 4+ inv save, but I say it's still worth a shot).


Unlikely if the player has any idea what he's doing, a Power Fist works better in my experience and keeps the commander from shooting. Also I'm not sure if FNP was changed in 5th but any shot that causes insta kill should also ignore FNP.

His Piranhas will probably try to outflank you, drop their drones and then try for some shots against rear or side armor, do remember that drones can be a threat against your vehicles if they get the rear armor as their str 5 carabines can glance on a 5, and penetrate on a lucky 6. They are not very hard though, so a few shots their way will send the discs crashing to the ground.


The Piranhas should be a priority target anyway, the Space Wolves don't have the speed to chase down Piranhas easily and their speed and firepower is formidable, not to mention they tend to turn tanks into scrap metal real fast drones or no drones.

hmmm.. I do feel a bit like a traitor to the Greater Good now, but good luck in your next battle against him :)

Rune


Eh I started the game with Tau oh five... six years ago or more, don't keep up with the army now, got boring when I won too much, but now I get to help others kill Tau which gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. Anyway Tau are very specialised it really comes down to picking the army apart and knowing how to minimize their strengths and maximize their weaknesses. A Grey Hunter squad can slug it out almost all day by itself but a Firewarrior unit needs support to work well, thats always been the weakness of the Tau. Even worse now since the True Line of Sight works against Tau very nicely.

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#7
Nanostorm

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If he has missile pods he must also have more crisis suits than his commander, as they are the only unit that can mount the missile pods. This means that I don't know his list exactly, and it makes it much harder to give good advice. Crisis Suits are a devastatingly effective weapons-platform that you should pay more attention to than any unit of Piranhas, Fire Warriors or his sole Hammerhead. It would help to get a more complete listing of what he has in his army, and how many points you are playing as well.

But ok, if he has a lot of missile pods I'd stay away from the Rhinos (and my a lot I'm talking about maybe five or more, and many of them twin linked). As he will quickly pop open one or two Rhinos. The advice I'd give then is more fast attack, add a unit or two of Assault Marines, or maybe another Bike unit.

Seing as his list is pretty static (only one transport, 2 Fire Warrior squads on foot etc) upgrading the biker sergeant to a vet sergeant and giving him the Teleport Homer may also be a smart move. Then use the homer to place a large unit of Terminators smack in the middle of his gunline, I know that would make me break a sweat!

When it comes to that Commander using the Stimulant Injectors to gain "feel no pain" that ability does not work against weapons that would instakill him, or that removes armor saves - so if he fails a inv save against that lascannon it's bye bye Commander. Either way, it seems your opponent is really stacking up on upgrades for his HQ; Fusion Blaster, Cyclic Ion Blaster, Sheild Generator, Simulant Injector, Irridium Armor (for that 2+ save) and probably a hard-wired Multi-Tracker so he can fire both his FB and CIB. That makes him between ca 130 to 160 points depending on if it's a 'O or 'El, either way him using that many points on his HQ is positive for you, as a 150 point Tau HQ seldom has the impact of a 150 pt Marine HQ.

Edit: I see that Vash replied while I was writing a reply of my own, so I just want to comment on what he said, I don't want to make this thread into a discussion between us two (that would be better handled over at TauOnline perhaps Vash, hi there by the way :HQ:).

I have not been playing Tau for as long as you (just a little over a year), but have tried to learn on my feet, and keep up with current tacticas and discussions in dedicated Tau forums such as ATT and TO.

I highly possible that people has success playing Tau armies not using any long range weapons and a single railgun such as the list BLISS describes, but I have gotten the impression that the common advice given, and the lists that get high rankings in Tournaments all over the world has a lot of long range weaponry, multiple railguns and missile pods to engage the enemy from round one, and even in his own deployment zone. Waiting for a assault army to make into range seems like a big gamble for a Tau player, but then again I have no personal experience playing that sort of Tau army, so I can very well be wrong.

I also agree that the CIB and FB is devastating weapons, but as you state as well, they have to be close up to take effect, and that's not a place I'd place my sole Crisis Suit (now it can seem the list has more than the HQ, but that reply was intended on the original list).

You mention that it's unlikely that the commander will be targeted by a lascannon, and I agree, but it is also unlikely that "a Tau player that knows what he is doing" is going to let a unit of footslogging marines wt Powerfists get close enough to assault, but again that's my opinion. Bikers or Assault Marines may be able to catch him though.

You do seem to disagree with almost all my advice, and that's to bad as I only wanted to offer some help. However it may seem like I have misunderstood most of the tacticas and advice I have read over at the dedicated Tau sites. I'll just have to surf over there and look again. :)

Rune

Edited by Nanostorm, 29 July 2008 - 09:55 PM.


#8
Vash113

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If he has missile pods he must also have more crisis suits than his commander, as they are the only unit that can mount the missile pods. This means that I don't know his list exactly, and it makes it much harder to give good advice. Crisis Suits are a devastatingly effective weapons-platform that you should pay more attention to than any unit of Piranhas, Fire Warriors or his sole Hammerhead. It would help to get a more complete listing of what he has in his army, and how many points you are playing as well.


Crisis can be devastating but outflanking them with the bikes can really minimize their effect and force them out of cover, they aren't hard to deal with but the mobility of Piranhas is worse, I'd say the Piranhas are still priority target number 1 and then deal with the battlesuits.

But ok, if he has a lot of missile pods I'd stay away from the Rhinos (and my a lot I'm talking about maybe five or more, and many of them twin linked). As he will quickly pop open one or two Rhinos. The advice I'd give then is more fast attack, add a unit or two of Assault Marines, or maybe another Bike unit.


As I said before Assault Marines for Space Wolves are far too expencive and too low a WS to be immensely effective. Bikes are a good purchase but Blood Claw Assault Marines are generally not at all worth the high cost.

Seing as his list is pretty static (only one transport, 2 Fire Warrior squads on foot etc) upgrading the biker sergeant to a vet sergeant and giving him the Teleport Homer may also be a smart move. Then use the homer to place a large unit of Terminators smack in the middle of his gunline, I know that would make me break a sweat!


Space Wolves cannot teleport at all, it makes a big difference to know both the enemy and the army fighting them, also Space Wolves don't have Sergeants or Veteran Sergeants they have Wolf Guard Pack Leaders but thats a whole different ball game. Likewise the Space Wolves don't even have Assault Marines, they have Blood Claw Biker Squadrons that can swap their bikes for Jump Packs but as they are Blood Claws their WS and BS is less than a normal marine and their cost is higher than normal Assault Marines too. Space Wolves don't even have Terminator Squads they have Wolf Guard Bodyguards, which can be given Terminator Armor but to arm a Wolf Guard the same way as a vanilla Terminator comes out even more expencive than their normal marine counterparts. Space Wolves are designed very differently to their other Space Marine brethren.

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"The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris," Torgadon put in. "Because they're clinically insane."
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#9
Nanostorm

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Ok, I see I'm way out of my league here, so I'll leave it up to those in the know to help out (I agree with you Vash that me not knowing the Space Wolves makes it hard to give any real advice).

I also added a few thoughts to my last post, as you posted your long comment on my first reply while I was writing.

Sorry about that folks.

Rune

#10
Lion in the Stars

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tau comander in batlegear 2+save fusion gun cylic ion blaster. (and FNP) ~150

3 stealth suits ~100, unless heavily loaded.

10 fire wariours ~130
10 -------------- ~130

5 path finder ~100
devil fish ~100

2 paranas fusion gun burst cannon ~115

1 hammer head railgun ~165
and meny other upgrades i dont no the name of

That's about 1000 points.

short reach, and static.

That's also 29 infantry and 4 vehicles. 20 Fire warriors without transport depend on you coming to them to be able to do much. 3 stealth suits are marginally effective, 6 work better. And that commander's really short-ranged.

Go ahead and ignore the Stealth team, they're just there to harass you. 6-9 S5 shots inside 18" is just not worth paying attention to when you're in 3+ armor. that's only 3-4.5 hits/turn, and 2-3 wounds per turn. You might lose one marine to those guys every turn. If you're determined to wipe them out, sic a pack of BCs on them, but plan chasing them around the table. If he's got a fusion gun in there, he needs to get a lot closer, and a good Run roll will ruin his day.

Let your GHs deal with his FW, supported by a Pred D or LRuss Exterminator. FW don't like AP4, feed it to them, then have the GH assault in. Your Wolf Scouts should be OBEL, give one a meltagun instead of the plasma. Use them to pop the rear armor of his Hammerhead, then raise all sorts of trouble with either his Pathfinders or his FW.

I've never been impressed with small numbers of Piranhas, especially when they're mixed armament. With a Burst Cannon, the worst you should see is 2 hits/turn, maybe one wound. Ignore them, and kill his infantry.

After all the footsloggers are dead, you can start taking potshots at his commander, and/or his Piranhas and stealth team.
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#11
Vash113

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You mention that it's unlikely that the commander will be targeted by a lascannon, and I agree, but it is also unlikely that "a Tau player that knows what he is doing" is going to let a unit of footslogging marines wt Powerfists get close enough to assault, but again that's my opinion. Bikers or Assault Marines may be able to catch him though.


Well if I'm reading the first post right in his last game he got into combat with his marines so I'd say its fair to assume this Tau player does not know what he's doing but anythings possible. Plus with such a static position against bikes and Wolf Scouts its really not possible to avoid assault. OBEL scouts are an incredibly powerful tool against Tau as they can simply deploy from the opponents deployment zone and pop up right in the rear of your enemies army, to engage heavy weapons in combat, wipe out infantry lines, they're fun. At worst they get some shots on rear armor and tie up infantry guns for a while.

You do seem to disagree with almost all my advice, and that's to bad as I only wanted to offer some help. However it may seem like I have misunderstood most of the tacticas and advice I have read over at the dedicated Tau sites. I'll just have to surf over there and look again. :)


Well the general playstyle of Tau is almost always mechanised or very mobile hybrid. People don't often deploy Tau defensively or in static lines, but I did it for a long time and succeeded, its knowing what to kill when. Besides knowing how your Tau army works or how Tau work isn't necessarily the same as knowing how to kill them. It helps but some things are different such as priority of targets and how to go about doing it. For instance with Space Wolves assault marines really are not an option. Fast Attack Blood Claw Squadrons equipped with Jump Packs are very expencive compared to normal assault marines and less effective to boot, just not worth it. While normally assault marines are a good choice to slip up a flank and get into combat Space Wolves are best off relying on transports, drop pods or bikes if they have too.

That's about 1000 points.

short reach, and static.

That's also 29 infantry and 4 vehicles. 20 Fire warriors without transport depend on you coming to them to be able to do much. 3 stealth suits are marginally effective, 6 work better. And that commander's really short-ranged.

Go ahead and ignore the Stealth team, they're just there to harass you. 6-9 S5 shots inside 18" is just not worth paying attention to when you're in 3+ armor. that's only 3-4.5 hits/turn, and 2-3 wounds per turn. You might lose one marine to those guys every turn. If you're determined to wipe them out, sic a pack of BCs on them, but plan chasing them around the table. If he's got a fusion gun in there, he needs to get a lot closer, and a good Run roll will ruin his day.


Math-hammer is not the be all end all. Stealth suits may not cause a lot of wounds on marines but with two expencive Predator's on the field Stealth suits are great for infiltrating foreward and maneuvering to get side and rear shots on the tanks, even with just burst cannons thats still 9 shots on the rear armor of a Predator, with a decent chance of destroying one and just one tank down has paid for the Stealth Suits. Yes against infantry they aren't going to be that powerfull but you should never just ignore them completely. As for running if I understand it correctly you can't assault after having run, so its not so easy to catch those stealthsuits and they don't have to worry about having their rear armor visible like a Hammerhead does.

Let your GHs deal with his FW, supported by a Pred D or LRuss Exterminator. FW don't like AP4, feed it to them, then have the GH assault in. Your Wolf Scouts should be OBEL, give one a meltagun instead of the plasma. Use them to pop the rear armor of his Hammerhead, then raise all sorts of trouble with either his Pathfinders or his FW.


Firewarriors may not like AP4 but if their static they hardly care, they're probably going to be in some heavy terrain so the cover save will likely keep them pretty safe. Plus unless you have a plan to get them into combat a handful of Grey Hunters aren't going to make it across the table to the Tau intact. A single 10 man pack even against only 20 Firewarriors is going to take some hurt in getting close. As for the scouts even a meltagun won't ensure destruction against the Hammerhead if they even have a shot. It depends greatly on the deployment of the Tau forces. To take a shot at the hammerhead leaves a not cheap scout squad open to lots of rapid fire and doesn't lock up the shooting for incoming marines. While Pathfinders are a juicy target points wise their carbines aren't that great, even if they have Rail Rifles they still aren't putting out enough firepower to justify targeting over a big line of Firewarriors. Throwing the OBEL scouts into the Firewarrior squads can tie them up long enough for the bikes and ground pounders to arrive.

I've never been impressed with small numbers of Piranhas, especially when they're mixed armament. With a Burst Cannon, the worst you should see is 2 hits/turn, maybe one wound. Ignore them, and kill his infantry.


Again I have to disagree with the advice to ignore them, everytime my opponents ignored my Piranhas they've had a laughing good time blowing his/her armor straight to the dark depths. Even a Burst Cannon is an effective weapon against the rear armor of a Pred, plus if the two vehicles are in seperate squadrons they are even harder to take out. The two very cheap skimmers generate 4 seperate units all capable of destroying those expencive predators from the rear and all too capable of doing just that if ignored. Speed is more important than firepower, ignoring a unit capable of outflanking ones forces and destroying ones heavy armor is never a good idea. The infantry is the prime target but OBEL scouts can tie them up fine. Firepower should be focused on downing the Piranhas if at all possible as they are all too capable of turning both Predators into scrap by themselves. Especially if you ignore both them and the stealth suits the Tau player can easily turn the tables entirely and leave the Wolves chasing shadows they have no hope of catching up too.

After all the footsloggers are dead, you can start taking potshots at his commander, and/or his Piranhas and stealth team.


Thats if everything goes according to plan, 10 Grey Hunters and 10 Blood Claws are not exactly numerous to take a static position easily. If the commander, piranhas and stealth suits aren't dealt with beforehand they can easily finish off every last Space Wolf with ease. Ignore them and they get behind you, blow the Preds to shreds and have enough firepower to deal with a handful of bikes then what? They're speed is more reliable than sprinting and they're guns are longer range on the move, how do you catch them when the bikes and tanks are dead? You can't, thats the problem and it would mean a lot of dead sons of Fenris.

The Tau Firewarriors aren't going anywhere and some OBEL scouts are more than capable of tying them up. The Predators, Bikes, GH and BC's need to eliminate those things that are faster and can outflank them, the Piranhas and Stealths. The Commander will likely be hiding but he alone can be dealt with alright if you make sure your rear is secure. The Hammerhead also has its limitations, throwing a little bit of tank firepower at it to keep it shaken can help make sure it doesn't accomplish much. Keep moving towards the Tau lines after the Piranhas and Stealths are dead and the OBEL scouts have tied them up and victory is easily achieved. But to ignore those units most capable of outflanking the Wolves is not a good idea IMO.

"Are we going to scrap about it now. Argue which Legion is the toughest?"
"The answer always is, the Wolves of Fenris," Torgadon put in. "Because they're clinically insane."
-1st Captain Sigismund of the Imperial Fists and Captain of the Luna Wolves 2nd Company.

Comprehensive History Archive


#12
Lord Howland Greywolf

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When playing Tau I find that heavy bolters work best, killing those pesky fire warriors on a 2+. Also, close combat is the key to such things, as well as close range fire fights (you wont win them but they will happen and when you cannot do anything else other than shoo tback it is nice) and so i constucted this list http://www.bolterand...howtopic=141428 and no one has commented on it so it must ethier be realy good or so bad people dont want to say anything :o . tell me what you think.
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#13
OnlyInDeath

OnlyInDeath

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From my experience against tau, I'd make the following unit suggestions:

Definately keep your bikers in the game. As I said before, drop the attack bike and instead go with a total of 5 bikers. Flamer, PW and PF upgrades. Also, see if you cant convert up a model to serve as a wolf priest on a bike and give him healing potions and balms. This unit will allow you to assault the tau most likely in turn two. It will be a unit that will take a lot of shots in the first turn of shooting, but start them out in cover, then turbo boost in your first turn, using terrain as much as possible to shield you from shooting from the tau lines. This will give you a 3+ invuln save with the ability to ignore one failed save per turn. This kind of protects the points sink into this unit. Turn 2 you will have a 12 inch move, rapid fire on 5 bolters and a flamer, then a 6 inch assault move. Most definately one dead unit of tau per turn.

Consider dropping one of your predators and instead of using a full lascannon pred annihilator, go with the lascannon/heavy bolter sponson setup. This configuration is custom made for low points games. After you take out his armor, you will still be left with an effective anti-infantry fire base. Keep this model inside cover to make it just as pesky as a landspeeder with a 4+ cover save against things like a railgun shot or the fusion gun on the pirannahs.

Against squadrons of any vehicles (pirannahs, killa kans, etc) I would suggest getting yourself a Anti-tank equipped dreadnaught taken as an elite choice. This will allow you to use up to one dread as seen in in the space marine codex. Give it a missile launcher, TL lascannon, extra armor, venerable and tank hunter upgrade. I think it comes out to about 180 pts. As vehicle squadrons take glancing/pens just like a unit allocates wounds, if you take this bad boy and fire at the pirannahs, the lascannon (which is almost always going to hit) will smack with a str 10 hit, making it auto-glance a pirannah, while the missile launcher firing a krak will glance on a 2. If both weapons hit, you are looking at a better than good chance that you are going to take down one, if not both of the pirannahs in a single round of shooting from just one model. Use this to take out the hammerhead in the next round and you are free to start throwing frag missiles at some firewarriors thereafter. Again, start this model in cover to give it some staying power.

I would say that two units of scouts here would be key. OBEL scouts obviously are a must have against static armies, as has been pointed out previously in this thread. Sniper scouts will also give tau a headache. Have a unit of 6, 4 sniper rifles and a heavy bolter. It's a cheap (106 pt?) unit that can harass a tau player like no one else. Deploy it infiltrated off the tau flank and all of a sudden you will see shots going towards this pesky squad as opposed to your valuable troops choices. It's more of an expendable unit, but with the new rending ability of sniper rifles, I think you'll find that you will be able to take down more than a couple models per turn. Also, pinning does tend to work against tau as they dont have the worlds best Ld value. This unit also works pretty well for hunting crisis suits.

I know you said that your transports tend to get nuked early on in the game. I know this is frustrating, but against tau, not taking them really isnt an option. Give your rhinos extra armor and smoke launchers, have them start the game out of LOS of that hammerhead as much as possible. In your first turn, sprint forward with them and pop your smoke. This will give you a 4+ save to IGNORE any glancing or penetrating hits. Also, keep in mind that a transport that blows now does not auto-entangle you (you must fail a Ld test instead) and will only hurt you with a str 3 hit (4 if it explodes) so this is actually much better than the "wound on a 4+ " that it used to be. This means, even if your transport gets popped, you should still have the survivability to move on with most of your squad in the next turn. of course...this does come down to dice rolls, so pray to the dice gods....

Again, these recommendations are based on my experiences and I've only ever lost against tau once (o'shova list with 20 crisis suits ::shudder::). You will have to have the ranged ability to soften them up a bit to allow your troops to close in. You will need to move fast, as the longer you are under their guns, the more they will pick you apart. Use cover to the best of your abilities when you advance forward to try and limit the volume of fire coming your way. And remember, tau FW or pathfinders are just about the worst CC units in the game. Even your OBEL scouts will enjoy domination against them. And finally, try to prioritized your targets. Use your anti tank units to take the vehicles out ASAP. Use any ranged anti infantry to take out units like pathfinders that can marker light the crap outta your forces and make it mighty easy for the tau to shoot the crap out of you (hitting on 2's, wounding on 3's, OUCH) or any other real threat. Static tau are actually probably the most killable tau list, as they arent as mobile as a tau tank company, and arent as hard hitting as something like an o'shova list. I think with experience, you will find out the best way to kill them.

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