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Bash the HH books all you want, but...


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15 replies to this topic

#1
noblesavage

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... please don't state that "I could have written them better". Unless you are a published writer and have several 40 books to your credit.

Descent of Angels was trash. I will never get the time I spent reading that crap back. But I refrained from authoring a post full of typos and poorly constructed sentences--such as I've seen here--claiming that I could have written it better.

Don't scribble fan fiction about totally kewl Space Wolf dreadnaughts in your grade school notebook and think you can do what professionals can.

Edited by noblesavage, 29 July 2008 - 09:04 PM.

Wins vs. mEQs: 39,758,978
Wins vs. non-power-armor: 728,006,732
Draws: 1 (Got bored with the lack of any sort of challenge, and played both sides of a game; I almost lost to myself, but then pulled out a draw in Turn 7.)
Losses: 0

#2
Razrhaghul

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me written better?...no.
give second-hand opinions during the editing period, yes, probably.

don't read too much into what people boast about online, if you do you'll just get sucked into fray and have your soul rent apart by cocky masses of this media...erm daemons i meant daemons.
edit: wait this sounds off-topic.

Edited by Razrhaghul, 30 July 2008 - 03:11 AM.


#3
Aryx Blackheart

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I'll just say this, you like what you like. There will always be people who think "I could do better than that guy did!". Who cares! Let 'em say it, chances are they will never prove it. But, that kid writing about that dread in his grade school notebook, don't knock him, you might be reading his book some day! As for me, I can't even put together my own fluff without it getting ripped apart!! But once again, I really don't care.

Me fail english... that's unpossible!!!!
Through pain comes purity.

#4
Mr.(Space)Marine

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Me fail english... that's unpossible!!!!


Yes, ralph... :P

Well I liked all of the HH books, just a couple of things annoyed me, but not enough to make me go "I hate [insert HH book] because I could write it better because it sucks".

And contrary to popular belief, I actually really liked the Galaxy in Flames book, just the first third of it bores me (less talk more action!).

#5
Aryx Blackheart

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I thought that Galaxy in Flames was a great read, so that makes two. The only book I didn't really get into was Descent of Angels, not really my cup of tea.
Through pain comes purity.

#6
The Either

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i liked Galaxy in Flames two one of the few books i've reread this year!

so that makes 3 of us lol :P

Edited by The Either, 03 August 2008 - 09:26 PM.


#7
Godspear

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... please don't state that "I could have written them better". Unless you are a published writer and have several 40 books to your credit.

Descent of Angels was trash. I will never get the time I spent reading that crap back. But I refrained from authoring a post full of typos and poorly constructed sentences--such as I've seen here--claiming that I could have written it better.

Don't scribble fan fiction about totally kewl Space Wolf dreadnaughts in your grade school notebook and think you can do what professionals can.


Does this really deserve its own thread? Personally, I think anyone could write a better book than Battle For the Abyss. I read it at B&N because I wasn't going to pay 7 bucks American for toilet paper with a binding. I don't think you need to be published to realize you have more skill with diction than someone making a living off of unoriginal, unimaginative trash. Let them type, I say, and let them prove or disprove it.

Edited by Godspear, 03 August 2008 - 09:59 PM.

"Badges? We don't need no stinking badges."

 

#8
iamblakkmetal

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Ive only read the first 4 and am 4 chapters into Fulgrim but that book kind of annoys me so far. Not because of poor writing but because the Emperors Children really piss me off. Otherwise Ive liked em all.

Edited by iamblakkmetal, 03 August 2008 - 11:31 PM.

This is the judgement of the rightous!


40K Armies played: Imperial Fists (3000 pts and growing), Night Lords (2250 pts)

#9
Battle-Captain Garro

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Am I the only one that thought Descent of Angels was an excellent read? It added tremendous depth to the Dark Angel history and put much of what follows into perspective.

Garro

#10
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart

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Am I the only one that thought Descent of Angels was an excellent read? It added tremendous depth to the Dark Angel history and put much of what follows into perspective.

Garro


yes, yes you are.

Descent of ANgels probably would have been better recieved if it wasnt a HH book, because the first 399 of 400* pages details the life of Caliban in amazing detail, but in the HH series i dont want that much dedicated to the pre-Imp Caliban, but rather Heresy Era Caliban. atleast thats my opinion.

the HH books are the first easily accessible book detailing the actions of the Primarchs and their Space Marine Legions. I want to see more Primarch-Marine interaction, to gain some persepective on these turbulant times. I dont want 399* pages describing the steeds of the pre-Heresy Calibanites, or their warrior traditions.

make sense?

wolf lord kieran

* i know it is a slight exaggeration, but the book seemed to be a fantasy novel quickly adapted to sci-fi, and throw a few paragraphs of power armor at the end.

Edited by Wolf Lord Kieran, 09 August 2008 - 11:34 PM.

Space Wolves are badasses that operate just barely within the rules. 13th Co. didn't even know there were rules applying to how badass they could be. DepthCharge on the Space Wolves

I'm so pleased that GW have gone to such great lengths to produce these awesome Space Wolves basing kits. Wraithwing on the Thousand Sons Rubic Marine release

"The Fell Hand is a name that has been passed on through out the Legion. When one warrior bearing it died, the name is left to be earned by another. Thus it was passed from Floki to Volund to Erik to Geigor. And then the tradition died, because censored.gif Bjorn got the name and proceeded to live for 10 censored.gifmillenia." - Sagas of the Wolf Priests. Wispy


#11
Allerka

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Am I the only one that thought Descent of Angels was an excellent read? It added tremendous depth to the Dark Angel history and put much of what follows into perspective.

Garro

Nope, I enjoyed it as well, and thought it was a refreshing change of pace from the other HH books. In fact, I enjoyed all of them, even if I didn't like specific parts (like Horus' conversion dream, or the first fight between Fulgrim and Ferrus). Haven't gotten around to Abyss yet, though.

Anyway, people are going to talk trash and make boisterous claims. It's just part of the nature of the internet. Like 40K lore according to the BL editors, anything said on the internet is often exaggerated or accented in an unrealistic fashion. If people want to claim they could have done a better job, let them. Getting worked up over it is only going to lead to your own commitment to an asylum (or an aneurysm).

#12
Battle-Captain Garro

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Kieran I suspect that you missed the point of Descent of Angels. It was not meant to be another power armoured, boltgun blasting technofest. It was meant to explore the pre-history of the Dark Angels in a new way. We've all read the current and previous DA codicies and know the story of Luther's betrayal and the destruction of Caliban but now we have fleshed out characters to inhabit that old story. Luther is now...more human and a fascinating character study along with all of the major players in the book. The whole DA chapter has taken on a new perspective in my eyes...and yes I'm eyeing up the DA minis and thinking about army lists, time for an intervention methinks, are there rehab facilities for mini addicted gamers? :tu:

***Spoiler Alert*** ***Avert your eyes and go read Fulgrim, what's taking so damn long anyway?!***

Allerka, as for the Ferrus vs. Fulgrim showdown, I thought it was pretty cool, however, the Iron Hand history has always spoken of Ferrus going missing in that fateful confrontaion and the Iron Hands awaiting his return...not with his head on Horus's desk as a paperweight. They took all the mystery out of it, he ain't coming back and nor is he ever going to need to buy a hat again, trust me on this. I'm currently re-reading Jonathan Green's book 'Iron Hands' and they always harp on about his return but 'Fulgrim' puts paid to that theory.

Personally I think that the HH series of books is the best thing to have happened to the 40k universe for a long long time. Some of them are better than others (anyone else wish that Dan Abnett would have written them all?) but overall, inspiring stuff.

Garro

Edited by Battle-Captain Garro, 11 August 2008 - 11:19 PM.


#13
Allerka

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Allerka, as for the Ferrus vs. Fulgrim showdown, I thought it was pretty cool, however, the Iron Hand history has always spoken of Ferrus going missing in that fateful confrontaion and the Iron Hands awaiting his return...not with his head on Horus's desk as a paperweight. They took all the mystery out of it, he ain't coming back and nor is he ever going to need to buy a hat again, trust me on this. I'm currently re-reading Jonathan Green's book 'Iron Hands' and they always harp on about his return but 'Fulgrim' puts paid to that theory.

The IH book was written when the only real fluff about them was the IA article, which had Ferrus listed as "missing". However, for the HH card game, the lore was changed so that he was killed (the whole scene where Fulgrim presents his head to Horus was written a couple years before the book came out), which obviously angered a lot of IH fans, including myself. However, I found his final fight written in a way that satisfied me. The first fight between them, I wasn't quite as happy about, but the second one makes up for it. Still wish they hadn't made such a change to the lore, but ah well.

#14
Lexington

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... please don't state that "I could have written them better".

No problem.

However, is it still okay if I state that they never should have been written in the first place? Quality aside, the fact that they (or the plethora of other Heresy-era material) exists is a major blow to the feel of the whole universe.

gallery_23421_16101_14266.png


#15
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart

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Kieran I suspect that you missed the point of Descent of Angels. It was not meant to be another power armoured, boltgun blasting technofest. It was meant to explore the pre-history of the Dark Angels in a new way. We've all read the current and previous DA codicies and know the story of Luther's betrayal and the destruction of Caliban but now we have fleshed out characters to inhabit that old story. Luther is now...more human and a fascinating character study along with all of the major players in the book. The whole DA chapter has taken on a new perspective in my eyes...and yes I'm eyeing up the DA minis and thinking about army lists, time for an intervention methinks, are there rehab facilities for mini addicted gamers? ;)


I actually do understand that B.C. Garro, but i like the power armored look into the pre-heresy SM legions that i have never seen explored. DoA showed little of the power armor, but alot into pre-Imperium Caliban. which i did like, but wasnt expecting when i purchased DoA.

i play Warhammer FB and 40K for the background, and the HH books go into what was only casual hearsey and rumors and turn it into fact. it puts more life into the SM legions. when a book departs drastically from that pattern, of course feathers would be ruffled. hence the relative unpopularness of DoA. as a former DA player, the book revealed little we didnt already know, which kinda disapointed me.

1 thing i LOVE about DoA is the Lord Cypher, especially in relation to the current rouge (or is he?) space marine of that name. We know know that Cypher isnt his name, but his title, and his importance to the DA. which i found mind blowing.

hope this clears up how i feel about DoA.

wolf lord kieran

Space Wolves are badasses that operate just barely within the rules. 13th Co. didn't even know there were rules applying to how badass they could be. DepthCharge on the Space Wolves

I'm so pleased that GW have gone to such great lengths to produce these awesome Space Wolves basing kits. Wraithwing on the Thousand Sons Rubic Marine release

"The Fell Hand is a name that has been passed on through out the Legion. When one warrior bearing it died, the name is left to be earned by another. Thus it was passed from Floki to Volund to Erik to Geigor. And then the tradition died, because censored.gif Bjorn got the name and proceeded to live for 10 censored.gifmillenia." - Sagas of the Wolf Priests. Wispy


#16
Battle-Captain Garro

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hope this clears up how i feel about DoA.

wolf lord kieran


It does indeed, I think it is because of the negative reviews I read on the B&C forums that I enjoyed it so much. I was expecting something truly awful so it could only get better and indeed it cleared up alot about the chapter that wasn't known before. The other books explored the theme of the Imperium forcing their secular ideology on a religious and indeed a happy culture. It was interesting to see the effect on a culture from which an Astartes legion was to recruit. In fact it seems to have led to its downfall. Great stuff. Like Allerka said, it was a welcome change of pace.

Allerka, I wasn't aware that the death of Ferrus Manus had already been written in another source. I'm glad actually, it made it all the more shocking when it happened in the book.

I've been so inspired by the HH series that I bought a Red Scorpions veterans upgrade pack from Forgeworld to create some Mk.IV armoured heresy era Death Guard. In the Index Astartes article on the Death Guard there is a sidebar that speaks of Garro and the 70 faithful and that some say that Garro and the faithful are still fighting against the forces of Nurgle. I had in mind an image of them showing up out of nowhere to aid other battle brothers in a hopeless struggle against chaos only to vanish in the aftermath like the Legion of the Damned. Though it seems clear from Flight of the Eisenstein that he and the 70 are the beginnings of the Inquisition, might work either way...

Edited by Battle-Captain Garro, 12 August 2008 - 10:42 AM.