32 replies to this topic

[L0NEW0LF]

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on 5th edition and how they effect our Glorious warriors of Khorne?

Personally out of the 2 games i've had since 5th has been released, i'm loving it!

1- now we can get so many more cover saves when closing on our victims
2- Rhino's now are much more resilient allowing us to get closer, quicker and into assault where WE want to be.
3- Close combats are much more brutal (if close combat with World Eaters could get more brutal ) and the sheer ammount of attacks WE can put out gives us a much better chance of causing more wounds and winning the combat
4- now our Bloodfeeder carrying lords can wipe out whole squads in 1 turn not just the ones in base contact
5- NO Consolidating into units after Combat, now i thought this was going to be a whole lot worse for us than it actually turned out to be. With good positioning and using rhino's to block LOS you can limit the enemies options when it comes to the inevitable returning fire.
also helps with some well co-ordinated attacks to tie up outlying units (lesser deamons are great for this)

all in all i'm loving 5th edition and think it's great i especially like the new way the missions work for some great variability.

1st game i played was anihillation and thats exactly what i did, totally destroyed his whole army in 5 turns with only a immobile landraider left. (WIN)
2nd game objective based (can't remember the name of the top of my head) and i was outnumbered more than 2:1 (dark angels 37men Worldeaters 17men)
still pulled of a draw and very nearly won it if it wasnt for a stray bolter round killing my Skull champion who was just within 3" of his objective (the rest of the squad were within 2" of him)

Your thoughts?

[styx]

I agree with many of your thoughts...

Power weapons are also of use as when WE go into cover with frags, they even the odds up. Granted I plan to mix the fist and power weapon in mine.

Also, you have a new wonderful toy again the Land Raider....roll up, and roll over your target...

[L0NEW0LF]

i'm a big fan of power weapons over power fists due to the furious charge means more kills before they can retaliate
as much as i love the landraider i do hesitate because of the cost in an army where even our basic troops are pricey and WE end up being outnumbered anyway.
as a personal choice i wouldn't take a raider unless i'm playing 2500pts (or 2000pts if i'm using kharn)

@Birdie - looks like mine but who's cleaned the blood off?

Edited by L0NEW0LF, 30 July 2008 - 04:37 PM.

[birdie]

@Birdie - looks like mine but who's cleaned the blood off?

Innkeepers wife got to it before we could tell her not to bother scrubbing it.

[L0NEW0LF]

thought i replied in the other post
that'll teach me to have 2 windows open at once

[Cheexsta]

3- Close combats are much more brutal (if close combat with World Eaters could get more brutal ) and the sheer ammount of attacks WE can put out gives us a much better chance of causing more wounds and winning the combat

As both a Khorne player and a Guard player, you need to be VERY careful with this. If you charge one squad and kill it, you can no longer consolidate into a new squad to lock it and avoid shooting. As such, take large squads (12+ when footslogging, 9-10 when in rhinos/raiders) and spread out as much as possible: you want to contact as many enemy units as you possibly can so you remain in combat throughout their turn.

Remember the math-hammer. Each Berzerker should kill 0.59 MEqs on the charge, and the Champion should kill around 2. Factor these averages in when you're trying to figure out how many enemies to engage: you want to engage more than this number so they can't shoot you in their turn.

4- now our Bloodfeeder carrying lords can wipe out whole squads in 1 turn not just the ones in base contact

I still think twin LCs are better.

Average roll of 2D6 is 7, so that's 12 attacks when charging, or 4 MEq wounds on average. You have the chance of getting significantly more (17 attacks), but you also have the chance of getting significantly less or even none at all, as well as a wound on yourself. Lightning Claws, on the other hand, get 6 attacks on the charge with a consistent 3 MEq wounds and the better ability to wound tougher enemies.

Of course, if you don't mind giving up your game completely to chance and if your dice like you, then be my guest and take the 'Feeder. I'd rather take the safer bet, personally.

all in all i'm loving 5th edition and think it's great i especially like the new way the missions work for some great variability.

Annihilation annoys me as a Guard player, but that's OT

Woot for a minimum of 4KPs per Troops choice!

[deepstrike]

Not so much about math hammer but about coordinating your attacks better. You dont need a calculator to tell you how many you are going to kill, I find that actual tabletop game experience really helps to know who to attack and who not to attack. The fact is with our low model counts and heavy close combat leanings, we have to get stuck in and kill the enemy as quickly as possible then move to the next enemy unit. If we dont, we lose because they will shoot at us whether we are standing around in cover afraid to engage or just slaughtered some of their squads. Supporting fire from armor and daemon skirmish screens help ease the way but it is with the edge of a chainaxe that we win victories.

[Brother Drakist]

Well the Khorne force I am putting together is basically going to consist of Zerker squads, Lord with Damon Weapon, Land Raider, and Rhinos. Due to the survivability of Rhinos and vehicles in general I will be using them to screen my units. I am a Space Marine player, however I am really looking forward to playing a Khorne Zerker/WE army. I am hoping to achieve an army like the following.

HQ
Khorne Lord and Blood Feeder

Troops
3x 8 Zerkers w/2xPlasma pistol, Skull Champ w/Power Weapon and Melta Bombs.
2 with Rhinos + EA

Heavy
Pred w/Autocannon + HB Sponsons + EA
Pred w/Lascannon + LC Sponsons + EA
Land Raider + Damonic Possession

1499 (9 KPs in all)

Strategy
The Lord and one of the Zerker Squads will be jumping into the LR for transport. The Land Raider and AC pred will be converted from an Imperial Pred and Inquisition Raider. Can't wait to Khorne them up! I will mostly likely try this list first and then build another without the LR in order to add another Zerker squad. I have always been a "troops" guy.

Why Khorne?
These guys are not nancy pleasure freaks, rotting corpses, or lame schemers. They are not out to torture, they are out to prove their worth to themselves and their Lord in the heat of battle. Their trade is death nothing more nothing less.

That and a bunch of Berzerkers charging up the board just sounds great to me! Go World Eaters/Khorne!

Edited by Brother Drakist, 02 August 2008 - 03:00 PM.

[deepstrike]

just dont forget you can shoot with your pistols. I like the list but for me I like the utility of summoned daemons. At 1500 I would use a similar list but drop one predator and one plasma pistol from each squad for some daemon packs, but thats just me.

[Cheexsta]

Not so much about math hammer but about coordinating your attacks better. You dont need a calculator to tell you how many you are going to kill, I find that actual tabletop game experience really helps to know who to attack and who not to attack.

You basically just said the same thing I did except in a different way.


You figure out how many men you can expect to kill (math hammer being one such method; experience being another, both should lead towards a similar result), and make sure you engage more so that you're not stuck in the open having slaughtered all of your enemies.

I'm not saying you should whip out your calculator, rather you should just do some quick maths in your head (divide the number of berzerkers by two, and add two if you have a champion: that's how many kills you should get, give or take) to get a rough idea of what to expect.

[Lord Doyok]

WE did rocks in 5th ed.

I had 3 more games yesterday and win all 3 games (for the total of 5 games and 5 wins since 5th ed begins).

The 1st game yesterday was against BA (Lemartes and Mephiston) in a Dawn of War (Capture enemy base). It ends so quick (My opponent concede by the end of turn 3).
2nd Game was against Tau (O'shovah) in a Spearhead game (3 objectives to capture). The game ended on turn 7 in which i capture 1 objective and wipe out the whole Tau forces.
3rd game was against Eldar (Lots of Skimmers!) in a Spearhead (capture enemy base). It was the most challenging game i had in which i win by controlling his objectives while he holds none.

The best part was that there were newcomers to the club and they were deeply fascinated with a pure WE forces (They never actually saw any before!). They ended up following all my three games and was shocked to see me win all three, especially against Tau and Eldar. I hope that leaves some high impression enough on them to begin collecting a WE army heheheh

[deepstrike]

The best part was that there were newcomers to the club and they were deeply fascinated with a pure WE forces (They never actually saw any before!). They ended up following all my three games and was shocked to see me win all three, especially against Tau and Eldar. I hope that leaves some high impression enough on them to begin collecting a WE army heheheh

I think the reason so many noobs think tau and eldar are so powerful is because they go to tau and eldar websites and read the battle reports and tactics. They always wipeout the enemy without losing anything, but in the real world things are quite different.

[Prot]

I think the reason so many noobs think tau and eldar are so powerful is because they go to tau and eldar websites and read the battle reports and tactics. They always wipeout the enemy without losing anything, but in the real world things are quite different.

You mean as someone would come here to read how successful World Eaters are? It works both ways.

I play Eldar, actually quite successfully, but I haven't played a World Eater force in 5th. In fact mine is probably the only 'true' World Eater force. I still can't help thinking a 'vanilla' Red Corsair army would do the job with any choices available like 'Lash' for instance, moving enemy troops into World Eater squads.

That being said I agree World Eaters look to benefit a lot from 5th compared to 4th. Almost as much as Black Templars do (IE. Accept Any Challenge). I am still contemplating a Berzerker force backed by close combat, fleeting Defilers. Talk about nasty if you make it.

Anyway, congrats on your wins. Mechanised Eldar played by a skilled general is no easy task, even in 5th. Good job. Lots of us are still feeling our way around 5th edition though so I imagine some things will change. Right now I'm just smitten with the Landraider possibility. I will hopefully have good news this week as I have a few games lined up.

[Lord Doyok]

I think the reason so many noobs think tau and eldar are so powerful is because they go to tau and eldar websites and read the battle reports and tactics. They always wipeout the enemy without losing anything, but in the real world things are quite different.

Things are just not as what they used to be anymore. We are all trying to get used to it aren't we?

That being said I agree World Eaters look to benefit a lot from 5th compared to 4th. Almost as much as Black Templars do (IE. Accept Any Challenge). I am still contemplating a Berzerker force backed by close combat, fleeting Defilers. Talk about nasty if you make it.

yeah you're right. CC army benefit much from 5th ed (except green horde). No wonder we can no longer consolidate into new units. That might be too nasty for shooty army too handle.

Anyway, congrats on your wins. Mechanised Eldar played by a skilled general is no easy task, even in 5th. Good job. Lots of us are still feeling our way around 5th edition though so I imagine some things will change. Right now I'm just smitten with the Landraider possibility. I will hopefully have good news this week as I have a few games lined up.

Thanks and good luck to you Prot. I cant game for the next 2 weeks. Enough is enough for now i guess.

[L0NEW0LF]

Nice results Lord Doyok, and glad to see you impressed the newbies and hopefully bring them over to the dark (red) side

as you mentioned with all the benefits assault orientated armies now have in 5th they had to have the "no consolidating into units" to balance things either that or all WorldEater games would be over by turn 3!

[styx]

Congrats on the win, but I have to note, that all those games had one or two named characters that is expensive. I've had serious success with my Tau testing the waters of 5th with either all wins or draws.

[Joah from Alberta]

Don't forget the fact that assaults are no longer in straight lines. More bloody carnage if you spread out more.

I am absolutely loving 5th.

Edited by Joah from Alberta, 04 August 2008 - 08:26 PM.

[birdie]

Don't forget the fact that assaults are no longer in straight lines. More bloody carnage if you spread out more.

I am absolutely loving 5th.

Not had a chance to play the 5th Ed yet, what do you mean by "assaults are no longer in straight lines" Joah

[deepstrike]

No disrespect to all you tau and eldar players out there but World eaters know there limitations and work to get around it and a lot of tau/eldar posters (which I seriously dont think play all that much except in their head) work off of number crunching and theory. Not that I blame them because quite frankly they are the people who do best with these armies anyway. I have played against some very good tau and eldar players and had a blast and most of them were close games. Some games I played against tau that because of the mission and having to go long ways down a 4x8 board or with minimal terrain, was a blood bath but not on my part, just me bleeding a lot. Now as an Mordian Iron Guard player, I look forward to the new blast rules, no consolidation after combat and the vehicle damage table. I think 5th edition will breathe life back into a number of armies that simply struggled against the uberlist play of 3rd and 4th and I say its about time. To all you weakling pathetic excuses for warriors out there, LOOK OUT, chain axes are this years starcannons

[deepstrike]

advanced tau tacticaBy the way. if you want to see some very good tau tactical material try this place out. It will illuminate you. Rivers of blood will flow. Better its there blood then mine.

Edited by deepstrike, 05 August 2008 - 01:02 AM.

[Reign]

As such, take large squads (12+ when footslogging, 9-10 when in rhinos/raiders) and spread out as much as possible: you want to contact as many enemy units as you possibly can so you remain in combat throughout their turn.

I think you meant 8... 8 Footsloggers, and 8 in Rhinos/raiders...

I'm almost absolutely sure you meant, eight...

*starts up his chain axe*

Eight, right?

[L0NEW0LF]

16 footsloggers, 8 in rhino's
anything else is just plain wrong!

[deepstrike]

16 footsloggers, 8 in rhino's
anything else is just plain wrong!

thats what I use 16 on foot or 8 in a rhino.

[L0NEW0LF]

just wondering anyone tried the "outflank" maneouver yet?
i should have a game this sunday and i'm considering a trying a unit of chosen out to see how the outflank goes.

[Prot]

I've only tried it with other armies. It is really hard to actually rely on due to the randomness, but at least it becomes an option. The option is great to have when your opponent is turtling, but otherwise unless you have 2+ units doing it, it's hard to really do something with it.

Let us know how it goes.