23 replies to this topic

[VonMerrick]

I normally field a 5 man wolf scout squad in games over 1800 points. I usually give 2 of them power weapons and 1 has a melta gun. Is this too much?

Its been suggested to me that I drop one power weapon, and go with:

Scout w/ Power weapon
3 w/ Bolt Pistol and CCP
1 w/ meltagun
all have meltabombs


From your experience as I haven't played in forever, and won't be for a few more weeks, should I take a second power weapon?

[Roguemarine]

i definatley think this is worth it, i even play with a wolf guard with lightning claws in the unit, it makes it a bit pricey, but now you have a unit that can kill tanks as well as crash into a marine squad on the back line and more often than not win combat

[Dark Bjoern]

I´m running both of my scout packs with 2 PW. Specially if you face IG or Tau it could be very helpful to have two PW. In my last game against IG my scouts first blow up a Basilisk in turn two. In turn three they engaged the Colonel and his squad. After two cc phases the Colonel and his men had been dead meat. The remaining 4 scouts engaged a Platoon Lieutenant and his squad in turn 4 and killed the entire squad. In turn 5 My scouts whipped out one of the two IG squads of that Lieutenant. In turn 6 The last two scouts hacked their way through the second IG squad and killed seven men of them before the last scout was dead. That makes 1 tank, 1 Colonel, 1 Commissar, and 27 Guardsmen. Without the PWs i would had have some problems with the Commissar and the Colonel.

[Beef]

good idea if fighting marines or even low T troops.

[barek]

Dunno... My regular opponent uses Deathwing and he wisely stays away with his three vehicles from the table edge. Which means that usually my scouts get shot to pieces by things that are running/driving away from them. And the meltagun usually misses. So I keep it cheap. A power weapon and a meltagun.

[Marek Grimfang]

I haven't any scouts yet.

But when I do field them I will be doing the all bolters and either a HB or ML since our "Dex allows us to take one scout unit as equipped from C:SM.


I would max out at 6 scouts though. One extra isn't going to break the bank point-wise and it makes a second PW a little more viable and less likely to take a wound and die.

[Valerian]

I haven't any scouts yet.

But when I do field them I will be doing the all bolters and either a HB or ML since our "Dex allows us to take one scout unit as equipped from C:SM.


I would max out at 6 scouts though. One extra isn't going to break the bank point-wise and it makes a second PW a little more viable and less likely to take a wound and die.

Marek,

Please allow me to step in and interject, but I think the above isn't a great idea, unless this is going to be your setup for a second Wolf Scout pack that you intend to Infiltrate into a good firing position to make use of those bolters and your heavy weapon.

The added power/capability of the OBEL Wolf Scout pack is so great that I consider it to be mandatory for every Space Wolves army. Nobody, ever, should fight without one. However, the significant impact of this unit relies on their ability to consistently deploy at any point behind enemy lines, and move, shoot and assault. This capability has but two requirements - first, you have to maintain that mobility, and second, they have to bring the right weapons for the job.

Point one - mobility - in order to maintain their mobility, you can't give them rapid fire or heavy weapons. The heavy weapons can't shoot when you walk onto the table anyway, and firing either rapid fire or heavy weapons prevents you from charging. Thus, you want only pistols or other assault weapons as your ranged weapons. This means either a flamer, if you want to kill people, or a meltagun if you want to destroy a tank.

Point two - weapons - this is obviously interrelated with the point above, as the type of weapon you use affects your mobility and your ability to assault. At your option you can take up to 2 plasma pistols as backup for the meltagun (they'll penetrate the rear of most vehicles with no problem), and they are pretty good against heavily armored infantry. Now that you've got your ranged weapons figured out, you need to determine if you want any special close combat weapons - you can take up to two Power Weapons - to help you against infantry.


Figure out what you want your OBEL scouts to do. Do you want them to move in to tie-up or destroy a critical enemy infantry unit (1), or do you want them to take out a critical enemy vehicle as a sacrificial unit (2), or do you want them to have some staying power and the versatility to perform against both(3)?

For option 1, a good pack might be 6 Scouts with a Flamer and 2 Power Weapons.
For option 2, a common choice is just 4 Scouts with a Melta Gun and 2 Plasma Pistols.
For option 3 (the most expensive), a good combination is 6 Scouts with a Melta Gun and 2 Power Weapons, plus a Wolf Guard Pack Leader with a Power Fist.

Regards,

Valerian

[Level]

I always go with two power weapons in my scout pack and a WGL with a power fist.
This gives them the capability to handle both armour and infantry equally well and always causes my opponent to consider their deployment very carefully. If your scouts are geared up to only handle one or the other then the enemy only has to worry about half of what they put down.

[deedark]

Versatilaty is the name of the game with scouts.

For me tank busting is their first role so I have 2PP and MG but if after that I need them to tie up a unit in combat the PWs are a must

The WG with PF is a good addition extra leadership in a small unit and his 2 base attacks with the PF are nectar.

As for regular armed scouts I've just finished a pack of 6 with a mix of sniper rifles/bolters and MLauncher these infiltrate/outflank get set up in cover or on an objective and blast away.

D.

Edited by deedark, 01 August 2008 - 11:57 AM.

[Darkuwa]

Its a good idea, espesially in tourneys. If you just take the melta then sure they can obel and pop tanks, but what about heavy weapon troopers?

[Roguemarine]

i am yet to find something that just road blocks the scouts completely, they always have a chance to kill their points worth, unless your opponent knows not to leave anything back there, but now with 5th you can chose to out flank with them as well so it makes them even better.

[Jonny Wolf]

Since I've fielded scouts they've only been unable to kill things twice (my opponent had caught on and was no where near the OBEL edge).

Nonetheless:
1. Even ff they don't make contact, your opponent HAS TO deal with them his next turn...giving you flexibility elsewhere on the field.
2. If they do make contact (as everyone knows) you have a whirling dervish of death and destruction.

I haven't used Power Weapons with the scouts yet...but this thread is making me re-think that. Right now I roll with:

2 PP w/ CCW
3 BP w/ CCW
1 MG
All w/ Melta Bombs
WGBL - Combi Melta, PW, pelt and sometimes WTN

Edited by Jonny Wolf, 01 August 2008 - 12:36 PM.

[Coverfire]

i am yet to find something that just road blocks the scouts completely, they always have a chance to kill their points worth, unless your opponent knows not to leave anything back there, but now with 5th you can chose to out flank with them as well so it makes them even better.

Don't forget that you have to now state at the begining of the game whether they're OBELing or Outflanking. You can't
just leave them in reserve to pop out where they are needed.

[saphius]

I put this on another scout thread a while ago but I'm still one that's a big advocate of making scouts versitile, as you never know whats going to be "in range" of the OBEL move. This is my favorite unit that I field. And I never play without it.

6 Scouts w/ Flamer, 2 PW, Frag, Melta Bombs. - 140 pts. Can kill anything in charge range. (tank or infantry.)

Wolf Guard w/ TH, usually used a BP, but now I'd suggest maybe even a combi-melta with the new rules. - He can be pricey, depends on what you give him. I like him for the added ability of killing characters and specifically monstrous creatures if you come against any.

You can add two Plasma pistols for 20 pts to the squad but its about 200 for the six plus the pack leader and that's were I draw the line. Check out the old scout thread for more info/opinions though.

[OGNaaman]

Not sure how most people will play, but the trend with shotguns seems to be (at least for space marines) toward a S4, Assault 2 weapon. Now that rapid fire is "shoot twice moving or standing still," the shot gun needs that boost to be a viable choice. Anyway, if your scouts need mobility but want to avoid close combat unless absolutely necessary, the shotgun (S4, if your opponent will allow it), can be a good choice. You can do a lot more shooting damage prior to a charge (than with bolt pistols) so this can somewhat offset the loss of close combat atttacks (mathematically, it's similar: one extra shot that hits on a 3+, wounds on a 3+ or 4+ depending on the target). Actually, the additional shot with the shotgun is, on average, more likely to hit, never needing more than a 3+, whereas sometimes, they will need a 4+ to hit in hand to hand.

[deedark]

Are shotguns not S3?

Never used them in an age so may be wrong

I can see the logic a a 2 shots before assualt if thats what you plan to do
but then again less attacks on the charge and if combat might prove an issue
if you dont kill much pre-assault

[Azmodeus]

I used to like this combo for breaking up shooty vehicles hiding at the back and still have decent weapons to cut ppl apart afters -
WG with combi-melta + PF
1x meltagun
1x pp+ccw
1x bp+pw
2 to 3 other scouts

And yeah, shotguns are S3.
Only DA shotguns are S4.

Edited by Azmodeus, 21 August 2008 - 10:51 PM.

[Valhalla]

Don't forget if your opponent catches on and starts to keep his units away from the back edge you can use the Outflank rule and reach them from the side.

I run a 5 man squad with 2 PW and 1 MG which gives me a good balance as the squad can take down tough armor and heavy troops just as easy as an IG soldier.

[CaptInsaneO]

I use a small squad of scouts.

Bolt pistol and Close combat weapon
Plasma pistol and Close combat weapon
Shotgun
Meltagun.
WGL with Powerweapon, Wolf Pelt, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs and Frag Grenades.

Has worked perfectly for me in every game. Great for taking out tanks or beating up any devastator squads or units in enemy deployment zone. Only comes to 124 points aswell

[Ullr Direfang]

this is what mine usually look like

5 wolf scouts:
1: PW and BP
2: PP and CCW
3: MG
4,5: BP and CCW
all have melta bombs.

they usually do a great job at killing both tanks and infantry. just enough for both jobs.

[Denkal]

I've learned that Meltabombs are utterly useless against a defiler. The hard way.

So far, my scouts haven't worked at all in OBEL. The best things I've done was give them bolters with a heavy weapon and a few snipers and infiltrate into a good spot to hold down.

And a quick realization. If we can equip one scout unit like in C:SM, does that mean we can upgrade a scout to Scout Sergeant Telion when the new Marine 'dex comes out? If so...my friends are going to drop bricks.

[Valerian]

And a quick realization. If we can equip one scout unit like in C:SM, does that mean we can upgrade a scout to Scout Sergeant Telion when the new Marine 'dex comes out? If so...my friends are going to drop bricks.

Possibly; we'll have to see the exact wording of the Scout unit option once the new SM codex is released.

Valerian

[Vassakov]

And a quick realization. If we can equip one scout unit like in C:SM, does that mean we can upgrade a scout to Scout Sergeant Telion when the new Marine 'dex comes out? If so...my friends are going to drop bricks.

Possibly; we'll have to see the exact wording of the Scout unit option once the new SM codex is released.

Valerian

Technically... probably. If Telion is an "Upgrade" character (as some of the Daemons are) then yes - he is an option in C:SM. Also, he is a SW that got lost, quite clearly.

I run my scouts as:

1 Plasma Pistol
2 Power Weapons
Shotgun
Meltabombs
Pack Leader, Two Lightning claws.

Never, ever let me down. Killcount includes - At least 10 Russes, including 2 in one game; Stormtroopers, HQ Platoons and RaF Guard; Devastators; Heavy Weapon Guard; Lots and lots of Tau; A squad of Plague Marines and their Pet Spawn; and they would have had a Titan if not for the fact ours blew it up first (taking the scouts with it...)

[saphius]

I still think 6 Loaded scouts with a Pack leader is optimal. Even point wise. (See my squad makup in previous posts.)

But I seem some people arguing that their scouts just get shot when they come on, or your opponent just moves from the table edge. In both cases, you already won.

First you have to decide if you want to use your scouts to simply as another threat or as a kill machine.

If you use your scouts just as another threat, tool them fairly cheaply, and able to handle vehicles well. Your opponent has to do one of two things: Stand there and take it when you arrive, you win, or move forward to fight to rest of the wolves, again, you win.

But if you decide to run your scouts as a kill machine and depend on them then tool them up best you can. Make them versitille and deadly. (I posted what I think is the best way to run them in a previous post in this thread.) But whatever you do, make them out and tool them to take fight in CC and not just kill Vehicles, this will save them. Your opponent, again, is faced with two decisions, move forward, or take the charge. And if he doesn't know your fielding a seven man killing machine he's in big trouble.

But how to deal with someone that has the ability to move forward, or is willing to make the sacrifice to get out of range?

This is where I believe you can find success. Wolf Scouts work very well with Drop Pods. Not in one, but one to back them up. I nearly always field a single Drop pod with Grey Hunters to support my scouts when needed. Scouts OBEL and a Drop pod comes in either with them or shortly after/before and your opponent has much more to worry about than just a few guys coming off his board edge. He won't focus much fire on 6 scouts of a 10 man GH pack is in his face. The GH pack can take a charge, shots, or whatever your opponent throws at you while your scouts are free to run through his line. Done this many times and have found great success.

Either way you choose to field scouts, as I think I have shown, you can always use them greatly to your benefit.