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Rhinos or Drop Pods


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32 replies to this topic

#1
VonMerrick

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I was hoping some gaming vets could shed some light and share some advice on the issue of running a traditional mechanized list vs. an entire drop pod army.

Does the reliability of the mech list, (ie. Its all on the board from the beginning) and the use of heavy tanks for anti armor outweigh the advantages of a tactical placement when a drop pod arrives? I was debating this with a friend who feels the wolves are best served with rhinos, Razorbacks, and other vehicles. I meanwhile can’t help but feel tempted by the eventual arrival of the new plastic pods.

Does three squads of grey hunters, Wolf Guard Terms, a Venerable Dreadnought, OBEL scouts, and deep striking land speeders with multimeltas all arriving where I want make up for the fact that they are in reserve and might be delayed in getting there?

#2
hendrik

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it all depends on your luck with the dices
with in 5th edition only troops being scoring and your drop pods autoarriving on turn 5
i don't know if i'm right but i would consider dropping the terminators in flavour of more landspeeders
i'm not sure, don't have my rulebook at hand but i don't know if the rulebnook says you must roll for reserves
else this is what list i would use and how i would use it

hq:
dreadnought
wolf lord (gets attached to the grey hunters)

troops:
1*9 grey hunters

2*10 bloodclaws

all in all 750-800pts
and then have
3*3 landspeeder tornados,maybe one in each pack upgraded with a multimelta
this should cost +-650pts if memory serves me well


the tactics
if the rulebook doesn't mention you must roll this is what i would do
roll for the landspeeders and the dreadnought only, deploy as much as needed of them near an enemy troops choice and watch them die,with some luck this would leave your opponent without troops after 1-2 turnsgiving you a chance to deploy your scoring troops on turn 5
i don't know if this tactic would be legal but i sure do see it working
then again i never played a droppod army before and always choice to go mechanized, a fear of heights i guess;):eek

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#3
deedark

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Drop podding on top of your target is great if you land where you intended and at the right time.

I just cant get away from the what if nothing appears on turn five or they scatter into the darkness - I know I shouldnt

I like my stuff on the board - but I like GH or Termi's leaping out of a pod and into battle

I'm sitting on the fence a bit but heart pods head deploy

D.
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#4
VonMerrick

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"I'm sitting on the fence a bit but heart pods head deploy"

I feel the same way. I love the idea of stoming 30 GH and 5 termis on my enemy suddenly, but the pragmatic person in me is more leary of leaving everything to chance. Thats why I wanted to know if it has worked or has backfired on any one. Bad dice rolls happen its part of the game, but I fear that bad dice rolls could end my game before I really get a chance to play.

#5
Captain Talon

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In the new CSM, half your drop pods auto drop on turn 1.

They can also be fitted with locator beacons that act like teleport homers, for any unit, not just teleporting terminators, so the later drop pods will come in without scattering.

I'm thinking....4 drop pods with 4 plasma outfitted Grey Hunters, wth a WG pack leader and maybe a WGBL with plasma, either pistols or combi plas. 2 come in at once and attack a flank, then the other 2 will eventually come in and reinforce those already down.

The rest of the army is in rhino's and speeds up to back up the drop podders, or we use landspeeders to flit around and seize objectives.

#6
Wolf89

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I ran a list at a 2500 RTT in 4th edition, it consisted of everything being in drop pods except for blood claws on bikes, and a Lord on a bike and OBEL scouts. In 5th I could see this army doing SO much better. There was only one game where one of my squads didn't come in (kept rolling 1's, it was very sad) but seeing as that can't happen anymore in 5th edition and they auto come in on turn 5 no matter what would make them even better.

The run rule helps to move your units a lot better if they scattered too far to shoot, or to gain a better position.

Like previously said, the drop pods will be better in the next C:SM when half come in on first turn, then the rest can be strategically placed next to them, making a more effective wall.

I lost only one game in the RTT by the way, and it was against a blood angels chapter using drop pods as well, I ended up going first, and ALL my army came in 2nd turn except for a squad of GH (that's the one that never came in). He just had a lot more luck and ended up getting to draw first blood, which you'd usually be able to do.

I'd say go with drop pods, they'll be more expensive, but they're higher AV and large size help create an effective wall to your advantage.
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#7
Valhalla

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I use a mix in my lists but for the most part prefer to use a rhino:

In my 1500 point list I have:

1 rhino: Grey Hunters
1 Land Raider: Blood Claws
1 Drop Pod: Dreadnought

For 2000 points I add a 2nd troop transport but also another drop pod for a Wolf Guard Terminator squad. It really just depends on your playing style and how well the scatter dice god's are too you.

#8
CaptInsaneO

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I'll always be a fan of the mechanised assault. And with the new tank rules I think they've made it harder to destroy the vehicles now aswell. This could also stem from the fact that the dice gods hate me when I take drop pods... <_<
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#9
saphius

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I'm a huge fan of tough Mech lists with few Drop pods. The drop pods can help OBEL scouts, of take an objective late. However they end up showing up.

Running something Like 15 BC's in a crusader. (including IC and Pack leader, or whatever you prefer)
Some GH's in a Razorback/Rhino. (Whichever you preffer, I like the Razorback for support.)
Leman Russ.
-Almost everything on the board is very survivable in the first turns. (AV 14 on the front of your Leman Russ) this gives you the needed survivability until help comes. And your dread (AV12) isn't getting shot by big guns. Just protect your 1 or 2 (depending on points being played) Transports with low av with your tougher stuff.
OBEL Scouts, always.
Then a ten man squad of GH's in a DP. (with whatever/whoever you like to trick them out with)
Dread in a DP for close support of the GH's/Scouts.

-This type of army is my favorite to field and a joy to play. Very mobile, very dependable. It can lack models, but with some smart play and using things for their designated role, it can be very tough to defeat.

#10
Coverfire

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In 4th Edition - Drop pods.

In 5th Edition - Mechanised.

In both editions it is all about the durability of vehicles. In 4th edition and depending on the terrain you usually could
not get far in a rhino or razorback and on top of that if the APC was wrecked your troops became entangled. In 5th Edition
it is much harder to destroy APCs, no entanglement rules, but there is a pinning test on the 'vehicle explodes' result.

Drop pods are unreliable too. We probably all have a horror story of most of their army not arriving until turn 5, but on
the right day and in the right circumstances entire drop pod armies supported by Landspeeder Tornados [using 4th edition]
is a beautiful sight and a pleasure to work with.
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#11
Grimfoe

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If those new rules hold true on pods I may have to consider them.....

Right now, I'm sold on Rhinos. Now that you can charge from a vehicle that has not moved I think Hunters may do pretty well in Rhinos that move across the board and pop smoke. I'll probably keep the hunters inside for the first turn or so. They can disembark and effectively charge 14" if I remember the rules correctly. That seems pretty good.

#12
MaveriK

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In 4th Edition - Drop pods.

In 5th Edition - Mechanised.

In both editions it is all about the durability of vehicles. In 4th edition and depending on the terrain you usually could
not get far in a rhino or razorback and on top of that if the APC was wrecked your troops became entangled. In 5th Edition
it is much harder to destroy APCs, no entanglement rules, but there is a pinning test on the 'vehicle explodes' result.

Drop pods are unreliable too. We probably all have a horror story of most of their army not arriving until turn 5, but on
the right day and in the right circumstances entire drop pod armies supported by Landspeeder Tornados [using 4th edition]
is a beautiful sight and a pleasure to work with.


its kinda funny how GW are finally going to release drop pods at a reasonable price, and now with the new 5th edition rules, I prefer going mechanized.

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#13
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart

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i am actually strongly considering putting a pack in a drop pod (due to autoarrival on turn 5, which to me equal objective stealing) with a deathwind laucher.

this means my 10 strong GH pack lands with a large blast S5 template, 7 bolters, 2 plasma pistols and 1 plasma gun to destroy whoever is holding a hard to reach objective.

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#14
Torin

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So does the mishap rules apply to droppods aswell in the 5th ed. If we land on enemy group or vehicle do we to roll for mishap aswell.

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#15
Wolf89

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So does the mishap rules apply to droppods aswell in the 5th ed. If we land on enemy group or vehicle do we to roll for mishap aswell.


No they do not, because they'd stop before going off the table, within an inch of an enemy, on top of your own units, and into dangerous terrain. ;)
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#16
KeithGatchalian

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If those new rules hold true on pods I may have to consider them.....

Right now, I'm sold on Rhinos. Now that you can charge from a vehicle that has not moved I think Hunters may do pretty well in Rhinos that move across the board and pop smoke. I'll probably keep the hunters inside for the first turn or so. They can disembark and effectively charge 14" if I remember the rules correctly. That seems pretty good.



You could disembark, move and assault from a non moving vehicle in 4th edition.

#17
JCarter

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It appears from the replies that the desirability of pods heavily depends upon the size of the army: 1750 and below are better with mechanized; above, there are enough units to benefit from the "wall efect" of pods.

#18
Grimfoe

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LOL...sry, never played 4th edition. Went from 2nd to 5th. Looking at the rules as I understand them now (and they may not differ from 4th as much as I thought) I'm thinking rhinos are still better. I like the versatility and reliability. The new ramming and tank shock rules are pretty good as well. I see real potential there.

#19
Wolf89

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LOL...sry, never played 4th edition. Went from 2nd to 5th. Looking at the rules as I understand them now (and they may not differ from 4th as much as I thought) I'm thinking rhinos are still better. I like the versatility and reliability. The new ramming and tank shock rules are pretty good as well. I see real potential there.


Best possible for a rhino would be 6+1+1 so a S 8 hit best situation possible, so yes it is nice, but most of the time you're looking at 4+1+1 so a S6 hit, still decent against most vehicles, ut not something that you'd risk unless it's a last resort.
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#20
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart

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my rhinos ram ork trukks all the time. its hilarious. :D

wolf lord kieran

Space Wolves are badasses that operate just barely within the rules. 13th Co. didn't even know there were rules applying to how badass they could be. DepthCharge on the Space Wolves

I'm so pleased that GW have gone to such great lengths to produce these awesome Space Wolves basing kits. Wraithwing on the Thousand Sons Rubic Marine release

"The Fell Hand is a name that has been passed on through out the Legion. When one warrior bearing it died, the name is left to be earned by another. Thus it was passed from Floki to Volund to Erik to Geigor. And then the tradition died, because censored.gif Bjorn got the name and proceeded to live for 10 censored.gifmillenia." - Sagas of the Wolf Priests. Wispy


#21
Grimmwulf

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Yeah, ramming can be fun ^^
Last game i ran my landspeeder which had all weapons destroyed directly into a killacan from an 18 " distance ^^

#22
Beef

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With the new ramming rules i would go with landraider and rhinos. Its more wolfy to ram stuff when all else fails
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#23
Grimfoe

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Kind of what I was thinking Beef. Once I've dumped the three squads of Hunters there's not reason my three rhinos can't zip around trying to run over or into stuff. Would be fun and might force the enemy commander to concentrate fire on these relatively useless units.

Edited by Grimfoe, 09 August 2008 - 02:55 PM.


#24
Wolf89

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Kind of what I was thinking Beef. Once I've dumped the three squads of Hunters there's not reason my three rhinos can't zip around trying to run over or into stuff. Would be fun and might force the enemy commander to concentrate fire on these relatively useless units.


They may be relatively useless, but they're still a kill point, so don't be too careless with them. :)
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#25
Grimfoe

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True. Some missions will ruin my fun somewhat. I like the idea of driving my empy rhino into a squad of guardsmen, guardians, etc. trying to hold an objective though. Can't wait to get them painted. Should be a blast. Can just picture the Hunter driving the rhino getting all liquored up and "aiming for the one in the middle."