IA: Ice Lords

[Lysimachus]

Sorry, been away but back! Just read this through again and I’m very impressed again. Glad you got rid of the TDA under the ice and I think the monsters bit has been cut down appropriately – I think I understand it better now, in some ways it doesn’t even matter (IMHO) where Taramant went, just that he did for a while and then came back to a Chapter that was suddenly starting to become the opposite of everything he’d hoped.

 

I can’t really find anything I don’t like here, just a couple of grammatical issues:

 

This new threshold appeared to provoke the creatures still further, and the furious alien onslaught pushed Taramant and his forces back into the under-tunnels.

 

Surely this should start “Crossing this threshold…”?

 

The Ice Lords recruit extensively from every city on Franklin's World, though even more extensively from among the people of Falconscott.

 

Doesn’t sound quite right, change one of the ‘extensively’ 's perhaps?

 

 

 

The only other thing I might do is swap the first Placeholder bit (and move it up next to the Knights and Wolves bit) for another of those omniscient sidebars from Taramants point of view, y’know like “fury at Telemachus for abandoning his people, but also recognition of situation and hollow fear that all things happened before, all the things tried to prevent, might happen again”, etc. to my mind would just make clear how the new schism fits in with the past and the theme of the Chapter (I get it already, but someone reading the IA as a stand alone piece might not). Just a small thought, as always ignore if it doesn’t fit.

 

 

 

It’s actually very interesting, the question of loyalty to the people of the Imperium or loyalty to the Chapter and the Primarch. Can Taramant keep his men following his beliefs or does Telemachus’ change of viewpoint to something much more like their DA forebears and their Primarch, show that the selfishness (as Taramant sees it, anyway) of their attitude is something in their blood (or geneseed) that in the end he can’t change at all? Is he fighting for nothing, doomed to fail anyway?

Not sure, maybe I’m missing the point! :P

 

Anyway, every time I read it I like it more! Good stuff! :)

Edited August 19, 2008 by Strike Captain Lysimachus

[Octavulg]

I think I understand it better now, in some ways it doesn’t even matter (IMHO) where Taramant went, just that he did for a while and then came back to a Chapter that was suddenly starting to become the opposite of everything he’d hoped.

 

Indeed. I have my Space Hulk, and can eat it, too.

 

Wait...

 

I can’t really find anything I don’t like here, just a couple of grammatical issues:

 

Both fixed. :tu: I also did a few minor changes to the Omniscient Sidebar O' Doom.

 

The only other thing I might do is swap the first Placeholder bit (and move it up next to the Knights and Wolves bit) for another of those omniscient sidebars from Taramants point of view, y’know like “fury at Telemachus for abandoning his people, but also recognition of situation and hollow fear that all things happened before, all the things tried to prevent, might happen again”, etc. to my mind would just make clear how the new schism fits in with the past and the theme of the Chapter (I get it already, but someone reading the IA as a stand alone piece might not). Just a small thought, as always ignore if it doesn’t fit.

 

Very, very, very tempting. Really.

 

However, I think that would definitely be crossing into the "too much omniscience" side of things. Hell, if I could cut the current one back, I would.

 

It’s actually very interesting, the question of loyalty to the people of the Imperium or loyalty to the Chapter and the Primarch. Can Taramant keep his men following his beliefs or does Telemachus’ change of viewpoint to something much more like their DA forebears and their Primarch, show that the selfishness (as Taramant sees it, anyway) of their attitude is something in their blood (or geneseed) that in the end he can’t change at all? Is he fighting for nothing, doomed to fail anyway?

Not sure, maybe I’m missing the point! tongue.gif

 

More "reading more into the point than I ever did", but that's hardly a bad thing. ;)

 

It is very much an interesting question: Chapter or Imperium? Marines or humans? And each chapter seems to settle out its own way. Personally, I felt the fall of Caliban would be the sort of thing where any marine on the fence would swing toward Imperium - a DA chapter which hated/rejected Jonson would be more than possible. However, Dark Angels are all far too selfish and chapter-involved to switch sides...but the Fallen aren't.

 

That's the entire process behind the idea, right there. :P

 

Anyway, every time I read it I like it more! Good stuff! smile.gif

 

Thankee. :)

Edited August 19, 2008 by Octavulg

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Well, looks like everyone got to this one before I did. But it's great stuff. The bit about the Fallen replacing the officer cadre is... just nice. It's sweet. I love it.

 

Would like to see more... especially on those sidebars and the later sections. :P

[Octavulg]

You've been reading my sig, haven't you?

 

Thanks for the kind words. :P Honestly, I really want to rework the sidebars a bunch. The rest of it I'm fairly happy with at the moment. Of course, I haven't read it for a while...

[flameseeker574]

At the beginning of the knights and the wolves section you repeat the same sentence three times. :rolleyes: otherwise,excellent work.

[Octavulg]

Fixed. Danke.

[Octavulg]

And lo, it has been updated again. Sidebars revised and expanded/wildly improved. Writing tightened up. That sort of thing.

[Ecritter]

Hate to say, your banners are completely unreadable. I tried light colors with mine, they just don't work.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I've got to agree with Ecritter. It does suit your Chapter, but they really need to be a little darker in order to make out the writing.

 

Black were the first days of our history. But so are all days, until mankind is trumphant. - The Chronicle of the Ice Lords, III Canticle

 

Spelling.

 

and it hurt the Ice Lords, for they were weakened by the need to defend the people,

 

Isn't that their job, defending the citizens of the Imperium? :lol: I think I know what you are trying to say, that it uses up scarce resources in manpower and equipment, but I feel an additional qualifying sentence is needed.

 

The vulnerable planet had become the target of Orkin, Human and Dark Eldar raiders

 

Orkish?

 

There's one thing I don't get about Taramant. If he watched Caliban burn, how is he still around by the time of the 26th Founding? That would make his several thousand years old.

 

Other than that, I like. :yes:

[Telveryon]

There's one thing I don't get about Taramant. If he watched Caliban burn, how is he still around by the time of the 26th Founding? That would make his several thousand years old.

Because he's one of the Fallen...

 

Anyway, two things bother me in this last incarnation of the Ice Lords. The first being the Taramat side bar, I liked the previous one much more. Secondly, the term "Knight" is dropped a bit out of the blue in the "Beliefs" section. Either mention them in the "Knights and Wolves" section or change the the first sentence that mentions them in the "Beliefs" section to something like "Those marines that hold true to the original beliefs of the chapter are known as Knights." or variation there off.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

There's one thing I don't get about Taramant. If he watched Caliban burn, how is he still around by the time of the 26th Founding? That would make his several thousand years old.

Because he's one of the Fallen...

 

Ah. Yes. A fairly key point I missed there. :D :P

 

I still think it needs to be emphasised just a little more. I only found the bit about him watching Caliban burn in the sidebar. I assume it isn't meant to be shouted about, but another hint/reference or two would help, if only for idiots like me. ;)

[Octavulg]

Hate to say, your banners are completely unreadable. I tried light colors with mine, they just don't work.

 

IIRC, that's why there's a grand total of one. <_< Still. It'll be changed.

 

* * *

 

I've got to agree with Ecritter. It does suit your Chapter, but they really need to be a little darker in order to make out the writing.

 

Slightly darkened.

 

I could read them *mutter mutter sulk sulk*.

 

Spelling.

 

Damme, sir, damme.

 

Fixed.

 

Isn't that their job, defending the citizens of the Imperium? unsure.gif I think I know what you are trying to say, that it uses up scarce resources in manpower and equipment, but I feel an additional qualifying sentence is needed.

 

Their job is to fight the enemies of Man - defending a planet and its people uses time and resources that could be devoted to that.

 

Orkish?

 

Orkin has been used elsewhere in GW fluff beffore.

 

There's one thing I don't get about Taramant. If he watched Caliban burn, how is he still around by the time of the 26th Founding? That would make his several thousand years old.

 

Time travel, man. The Fallen went everywhen.

 

Other than that, I like. yes.gif

 

Danke.

 

* * *

 

From: Romania (bet you never heard of it)

 

It's on the coast of the Black Sea, just to the north of Bulgaria.

 

Please. I know everything. ;)

 

Anyway, two things bother me in this last incarnation of the Ice Lords. The first being the Taramat side bar, I liked the previous one much more.

 

Really? This one's (IMO) shorter, better written, and makes a number of things clear that weren't before (plus, I think, making all the old things clear as well). There's somewhat less explanation of motivation, admittedly, but a lot more explanation of what actually happened, which makes it read less like bad exposition and more like a chronicle of what happened which just happens to have some exposition attached. I even kept my favorite bits of writing. :D

 

Care to explain further?

 

Secondly, the term "Knight" is dropped a bit out of the blue in the "Beliefs" section. Either mention them in the "Knights and Wolves" section or change the the first sentence that mentions them in the "Beliefs" section to something like "Those marines that hold true to the original beliefs of the chapter are known as Knights." or variation there off.

 

Added.

 

* * *

 

I still think it needs to be emphasised just a little more. I only found the bit about him watching Caliban burn in the sidebar. I assume it isn't meant to be shouted about, but another hint/reference or two would help, if only for idiots like me. msn-wink.gif

 

The idea is that it's not strictly necessary knowledge for the IA - but that if you have it, it makes things read differently (if only slightly).

[Telveryon]

From: Romania (bet you never heard of it)

 

It's on the coast of the Black Sea, just to the north of Bulgaria.

 

Please. I know everything. :D

Wikipedia doth beeth thou's friend! ;)

 

Really? This one's (IMO) shorter, better written, and makes a number of things clear that weren't before (plus, I think, making all the old things clear as well). There's somewhat less explanation of motivation, admittedly, but a lot more explanation of what actually happened, which makes it read less like bad exposition and more like a chronicle of what happened which just happens to have some exposition attached. I even kept my favorite bits of writing. <_<

 

Care to explain further?

It left more to the reader's imagination, which I kind off liked. It might not have been as clear this it is now, but it was overall more exiting. And if I remember correctly it was less critical of the Lion giving the idea that Taramant saw the destruction of Caliban with regret rather then resent as he does now. If I'm wrong disregard that last bit.

[Octavulg]

Wikipedia doth beeth thou's friend! msn-wink.gif

 

I knew it before that, too. Conquering things in assorted games has taught me well.

 

It left more to the reader's imagination, which I kind off liked. It might not have been as clear this it is now, but it was overall more exiting.

 

True, but I find this still leaves some room for imagination and makes things clear enough people can easily get what's going on. Which was a bit of an issue with the last one. <_<

 

Plus, I really do think this one's rather better written. It's a lot shorter, at the least.

 

And if I remember correctly it was less critical of the Lion giving the idea that Taramant saw the destruction of Caliban with regret rather then resent as he does now. If I'm wrong disregard that last bit.

 

He was always supposed to resent the Lion - I evidently failed to make it clear.

 

He regrets his part in it. He resents the Lion for ordering it and himself for going along with it. I'm tempted to replace the Space Hulk IA with an excerpt from a diary or something - I'm not that pleased with either of the anecdotal sidebars, but I'm really unhappy with the SH one.

 

EDIT: 1st sidebar updated. I think it flows a little better now.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Octavulg

[Telveryon]

I knew it before that, too. Conquering things in assorted games has taught me well.

Really? Which games, I'm quite curios here.

 

He was always supposed to resent the Lion - I evidently failed to make it clear.

 

He regrets his part in it. He resents the Lion for ordering it and himself for going along with it.

Fair enough! When I read the first Taramant sidebar I interpreted that Taramant saw the Lion as a mentor that failed in the eyes of hist student and it was his duty to fix those mistakes, and that's what made it cool. But it's only my persona preference talking here, it's still very good and if you like it, all the better!

 

Though I think I spotted a bit of a mistake. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Dark Angels repaint their armor following the destruction of Caliba? If that's the case, wouldn't Taramant still wear black armor. Moreover, as Belicarius is a chaplain, shouldn't his armor remain black?

[Octavulg]

Really? Which games, I'm quite curios here.

 

Assorted Paradox Interactive games, mostly.

 

Fair enough! When I read the first Taramant sidebar I interpreted that Taramant saw the Lion as a mentor that failed in the eyes of hist student and it was his duty to fix those mistakes, and that's what made it cool. But it's only my persona preference talking here, it's still very good and if you like it, all the better!

 

Oh no. See, that'd require giving the Lion what the kids all 'credit'.

 

And since I see him as loathsome scum, I ain't a-gonna do that.

 

Though I think I spotted a bit of a mistake. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Dark Angels repaint their armor following the destruction of Caliba? If that's the case, wouldn't Taramant still wear black armor. Moreover, as Belicarius is a chaplain, shouldn't his armor remain black?

 

Er...they repainted the Chapter symbol, which goes on the shoulder! Yeah, that's it. So Belicarius' pauldron is white, just not the rest of him. :D

 

IIRC, the loyalist DA were repainted green prior to the drop on Caliban.

[Telveryon]

But it seemed that the artificers of the Great Crusade had wrought better than the artificers of the modern day, and his green armor had become white, as had the black of his two brothers.

This bit implies that he's white as snow :D

 

You might wish to fix that

 

IIRC, the loyalist DA were repainted green prior to the drop on Caliban.

Well, you learn new things every day!

[Ecritter]

New banner has an icy feel, is still light .... and is readable, good job. The White hand begged for bone white banners but I just couldn't make it work.

[Octavulg]

Why did you not just change the text color?

Hell, why didn't I?

Edited May 25, 2009 by Octavulg

[Ecritter]

Text changes but not the skull.

[Octavulg]

So don't use the skull headers.

[Ecritter]

I like the skull header

[ShadowCrescents]

I think the paint scheme is right on the money. I think it will be an awesome job once a squad or even a 2000 point army is done to those colors.

[Octavulg]

The squad was finished long ago (though the blue is not 100% accurate - a problem which plagues the Ice Lords. :D). Of their three incarnations (here, 40K and Epic), there are three different blues in use.

 

All of which are supposed to be the same. Gah.

 

As of right now, there's one or two squads done acceptably, two HQs, also done acceptably, and two squads in need of a wash or two. And some guys who need pieces reattached. :) It's a Terminator-heavy army, which helps a lot. All in all, I've got about 1000-1250 points painted. The pieces I'm pleased with, I'm very pleased with, the pieces I'm not, not so much, but that's usually the way.

 

The Epic army will likely be finished before much else is, since I'm rather disgusted with the 40K rules these days. Plus, my 'deceptive' style of painting lends itself well to Epic.

[Octavulg]

A number of low-quality photos for your 'enjoyment', which are likely still high-quality enough to demonstrate why I hang out in Liber. :)

Ah well. I like em. :D

From left to right, the second figure I did (first was the test figure, now lost to time, this one's the Sergeant of Red Squad),Taramant himself (with heretofore unmentioned bionic arm), and First Captain Darius.

Taramant by himself.

The Sergeant of Red Squad (who really needs a name) is the best painted of any of the figures I have. This is why he won't photograph for @#%(&^)(@. He was also the first model I did for the army, which raises all kinds of questions about my painting methods...

The only thing that did show up worth a damn was the thrice-cursed spot where the paint on his hair wore off. I curse the gods, I do.

Darius doesn't have any closeups because his shoulder turned pink at some point and I need to fix it. Also, I couldn't be bothered.

Oh - anyone who says the word highlight will have their life made a living hell. I am morally, aesthetically, culturally and religiously opposed to highlights.