50 replies to this topic

[the great beaver]

http://uk.games-work.../news/errata/3/

biggest points for me:

counter attack is no longer even a rule for us: we have to do a LD check to do what we've been doiing all along?

no matter the odds is gone: why? it's not that over powering gosh!

true grit: says use as written. clarification questions below *

Fenrisian wolves can't turbo boost but nothing stops them from being ablative wounds now !!

no more two venerable dreadnaughts: sad, but expected

wolfguard battle leader may take an assault cannon: my question is what happens when you have 4 base attacks, but you're not carrying a weapon? I know I'm going to start taking assault cannon and storm sheild terminator battle leaders

wolf guard battle leaders can come in deployed with other units...but it doesnt mention other leaders? does that mean my rune priest can't drop pod in with my grey hunters?

Things that are missing(from my memory):

no more rulings on storm caller means we get to strike first.

no ruling on wolf pelt means it stacks



* for new marines who are equipped with a bolt pistol, bolter and CCW. do they get 3 attacks on the charge? 1BP+1A+1Charge? and do they get 2 attacks when charged? 1BP+1A?

if so then true grit no longer makes grey hunters better CC fighters. thanks for any help on this

Edited by the great beaver, 16 August 2008 - 09:56 PM.

[Bjorn the Fell-Handed]

http://uk.games-work.../news/errata/3/

biggest points for me:

counter attack is no longer even a rule for us: we have to do a LD check to do what we've been doiing all along?

no matter the odds is gone: why? it's not that over powering gosh!

true grit: says use as written. clarification questions below *

Fenrisian wolves can't turbo boost but nothing stops them from being ablative wounds now !!

no more two venerable dreadnaughts: sad, but expected

wolfguard battle leader may take an assault cannon: my question is what happens when you have 4 base attacks, but you're not carrying a weapon? I know I'm going to start taking assault cannon and storm sheild terminator battle leaders

wolf guard battle leaders can come in deployed with other units...but it doesnt mention other leaders? does that mean my rune priest can't drop pod in with my grey hunters?

Things that are missing(from my memory):

no more rulings on storm caller means we get to strike first.

no ruling on wolf pelt means it stacks



* for new marines who are equipped with a bolt pistol, bolter and CCW. do they get 3 attacks on the charge? 1BP+1A+1Charge? and do they get 2 attacks when charged? 1BP+1A?

if so then true grit no longer makes grey hunters better CC fighters. thanks for any help on this

1) The LD check is just to see if the squad benefit from the +1A for CA. You still get the 6 inch mug in move in CC. At least we can have te extra attack....

2) NMTO is gone. Just to get rid of one less USR. Ill put money that they will put stubborn in our next codex so its to sand that out, but watch this space.

3) Fenrisian wolves, it pains me to say, were always ablative wounds, and Im fairly sure they never could turbo boost, but Ill await confirmation by DB or someoen.

4) As you said, expected. 2 Ven dreads, wandering around? Not exactly the most healthy thing for an enemy to do in any circumstance.

5) Your priest can drop in with your GH's as far as I know, its just that the WGBL is a bit unclear as to his position in the army.

6) WGBL with an assault cannon has got a weapon, the Assault cannon. He will hit hsi enemies over the head with it It will just count as a CCW with no special effects.

SC is your call, it really is. Everyone seems to be at 6's and 7s over it. Use it as you have always done.
Wolf Pelts, well, Im stacking with mine, so.......

* for new marines who are equipped with a bolt pistol, bolter and CCW. do they get 3 attacks on the charge? 1BP+1A+1Charge? and do they get 2 attacks when charged? 1BP+1A?

if so then true grit no longer makes grey hunters better CC fighters. thanks for any help on this

It does. GH with Bolter and CCW get 3 attacks on the Counter Charge (one profile, one 2CCW, one CA), and 2 when they charge. But then again, thats what you want your GH's to do; to get close enough, hold a position, Rapid fire at the enemey and shatter their charge when they do.

Happy trails

Bjorn

[Bjorn Darkwolf]

Just wanted to throw this in about the Independent characters.

a friend of mine plays dark angels and wanted to deep strike a terminator squad in and accompany it with his Chaplin. some guy he was playing against would not let him as he was not part of the squad. i ended up calling GW support on this one, and there ruling was that because a IC cant join a unit other than his retinue before the battle he could not share a drop pod or teleport in with the unit, he would need to roll seperatly to bring him in and then separately to scatter.

this may change with the changing mechanics of drop pods but as far as the end of 4th ed. that was the way it was supposed to work.

also if i am not mistaken the rules on true grit are still going to apply on the counter charge, we (now counter assaulting) will gain our +1 charge bonus in addition to our 1 profile attack, the bolter won't grant us an additional attack until we are locked in combat. so our gray hunters will fight with two attacks no matter who charges or how long the combat has gone on, just like they always have. They were one of the few squads that where better off running in rapid firing and then taking the assault.

again this too will change with our new dex where we are rumored to be equipped like chaos marines and carry a Bolter a pistol and a close combat weapon. when that happens we will return to our rightful seat of astartes close combat superiority.

hope this helped,

-Bjorn

Edited by Bjorn Darkwolf, 17 August 2008 - 12:06 AM.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The rules for Dark Angels terminator squads allow an independent character to join them and deep strike.

[Crimson Devil]

http://uk.games-work.../news/errata/3/

biggest points for me:

counter attack is no longer even a rule for us: we have to do a LD check to do what we've been doiing all along?

Counter Attack page 74. We now have a bonus attack when counter attacking.

no matter the odds is gone: why? it's not that over powering gosh!

Outnumbering is gone, why keep it?

true grit: says use as written. clarification questions below *

see below

wolf guard battle leaders can come in deployed with other units...but it doesnt mention other leaders? does that mean my rune priest can't drop pod in with my grey hunters?

Page 94, third paragraph, under Preparing reserves.

Things that are missing(from my memory):

no more rulings on storm caller means we get to strike first.

Talk to your opponent about it.

no ruling on wolf pelt means it stacks

Yes

* for new marines who are equipped with a bolt pistol, bolter and CCW. do they get 3 attacks on the charge? 1BP+1A+1Charge? and do they get 2 attacks when charged? 1BP+1A?

if so then true grit no longer makes grey hunters better CC fighters. thanks for any help on this

What "new" marines? SW can't have three weapons. True grit screws any one with a bolter. No charge bonus attack if you are using your bolter as a 2nd ccw.

Edited by Crimson Devil, 17 August 2008 - 12:45 AM.

[Crimson Devil]

Just wanted to throw this in about the Independent characters.

a friend of mine plays dark angels and wanted to deep strike a terminator squad in and accompany it with his Chaplin. some guy he was playing against would not let him as he was not part of the squad. i ended up calling GW support on this one, and there ruling was that because a IC cant join a unit other than his retinue before the battle he could not share a drop pod or teleport in with the unit, he would need to roll seperatly to bring him in and then separately to scatter.

this may change with the changing mechanics of drop pods but as far as the end of 4th ed. that was the way it was supposed to work.

also if i am not mistaken the rules on true grit are still going to apply on the counter charge, we (now counter assaulting) will gain our +1 charge bonus in addition to our 1 profile attack, the bolter won't grant us an additional attack until we are locked in combat. so our gray hunters will fight with two attacks no matter who charges or how long the combat has gone on, just like they always have. They were one of the few squads that where better off running in rapid firing and then taking the assault.

again this too will change with our new dex where we are rumored to be equipped like chaos marines and carry a Bolter a pistol and a close combat weapon. when that happens we will return to our rightful seat of astartes close combat superiority.

hope this helped,

-Bjorn

5th edition allows Independent characters to join units in reserve. Page 94, third paragraph, under Preparing reserves.

[Marek Grimfang]

no more two venerable dreadnaughts: sad, but expected

I thought we could only have one Ven Dread, as a HQ choice OR an Elite choice, not both.

[Wolf89]

no more two venerable dreadnaughts: sad, but expected

I thought we could only have one Ven Dread, as a HQ choice OR an Elite choice, not both.

I believe this was a reference to taking a C:SM ven dread as an Elite (upgrade dread) and taking a SW ven dread as an HQ.

[Spacefrisian]

Mwa no problem for me i can still pick 2 venerable dreadnoughts (imperial armour), their is always a way around it.

[Max_Dammit]

It does. GH with Bolter and CCW get 3 attacks on the Counter Charge (one profile, one 2CCW, one CA), and 2 when they charge. But then again, thats what you want your GH's to do; to get close enough, hold a position, Rapid fire at the enemey and shatter their charge when they do.

I dont see it that way, GHs with bolters will only have 2 attacks no matter what
The counter rule gives a +1 assault bonus, and assaulting removes the +1 cc weapon bonus of the bolter, leaving 2 like normal assault.
so no need to roll for counter on those units, they have 2 attacks anyway

Edited by Max_Dammit, 17 August 2008 - 08:44 AM.

[barek]

Mr Max. Exactly what I thought. 2 attacks for GH with bolters, no matter the ... eh ... no matter what.

[Wolf89]

Yep Max is right, as if the unit themselves had assaulted.

[Marek Grimfang]

no more two venerable dreadnaughts: sad, but expected

I thought we could only have one Ven Dread, as a HQ choice OR an Elite choice, not both.

I believe this was a reference to taking a C:SM ven dread as an Elite (upgrade dread) and taking a SW ven dread as an HQ.

I had to read this a few times to get the substance of it. I have never seen it this way, but I would gather it is/was legal under 4th Rules.

Never even thought this.

I dont see it that way, GHs with bolters will only have 2 attacks no matter what
The counter rule gives a +1 assault bonus, and assaulting removes the +1 cc weapon bonus of the bolter, leaving 2 like normal assault.
so no need to roll for counter on those units, they have 2 attacks anyway

Agreed.

[the great beaver]

http://uk.games-work.../news/errata/3/

biggest points for me:

counter attack is no longer even a rule for us: we have to do a LD check to do what we've been doiing all along?

Counter Attack page 74. We now have a bonus attack when counter attacking.

ah, I get it, I thought it said to ignore the rule completely, not replace it with the one in the book. my bad

no matter the odds is gone: why? it's not that over powering gosh!

Outnumbering is gone, why keep it?

I meant as a concept. I think we ought to ignore the morale modifiers if we lose a fight ie: if I lose a fight by 2 wounds then I will have to test LD at -2. we ought to ignore that cuz we're drunk n awesome!

true grit: says use as written. clarification questions below *

see below

wolf guard battle leaders can come in deployed with other units...but it doesnt mention other leaders? does that mean my rune priest can't drop pod in with my grey hunters?

Page 94, third paragraph, under Preparing reserves.

Things that are missing(from my memory):

no more rulings on storm caller means we get to strike first.

Talk to your opponent about it.

gah! I've been doing that for 4 years and I want it done one way or the other, I'll just keep playing it as no init bonus because that's always what opponents want anyways. stupid crud, we only get one power, let it not suck.

oh and question: does storm caller now give us a 4+ cover save? I don't have me codex handy?

no ruling on wolf pelt means it stacks

Yes

* for new marines who are equipped with a bolt pistol, bolter and CCW. do they get 3 attacks on the charge? 1BP+1A+1Charge? and do they get 2 attacks when charged? 1BP+1A?

if so then true grit no longer makes grey hunters better CC fighters. thanks for any help on this

What "new" marines? SW can't have three weapons. True grit screws any one with a bolter. No charge bonus attack if you are using your bolter as a 2nd ccw.

Dark angels get a bolter and a bolt pistol. I'm wondering how it works for them? do they use the pistol on the charge and in subsequent close combats? thus giving them a virtual true grit except they will get 3 attacks on the charge? I haven't played a DA player for a long time so I don't know how having a bolter and a bolt pistol works and if it nullifies, in comparison, the benefits we receive from true grit.

[Legatus]

A Boltgun does nothing in close combat. Having a Boltgun and a Bolt Pistol does not give the model +1 attack. A Dark Angel cann use his Bolt Pistol in the Shooting Phase and then charge in the Close Combat Phase. If he had fired his Boltgun he would not have been allowed to charge. Having a Bolt Pistol enables him to at least fire one shot before charging. In teh combat he will have 2 attacks, 1 base attack and +1 for charging.

[Wolf89]

A Boltgun does nothing in close combat. Having a Boltgun and a Bolt Pistol does not give the model +1 attack. A Dark Angel cann use his Bolt Pistol in the Shooting Phase and then charge in the Close Combat Phase. If he had fired his Boltgun he would not have been allowed to charge. Having a Bolt Pistol enables him to at least fire one shot before charging. In teh combat he will have 2 attacks, 1 base attack and +1 for charging.

This is all over the place and I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

A boltgun counts as a CCW for purposes of true grit, but not in the turn that they charged, but proceeding turns it does. Grey hunters use bolters over bolt pistols because they're a counter charge unit and are best to get assaulted rather than assault. Your point about a Dark Angel is irrelevant on this topic as they don't have true grit or counter attack.

Again, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, if I've misunderstood your point, please let me know.

@ the great beaver

About your question "does storm caller now give us a 4+ cover save? I don't have me codex handy?" no, it still provides 5+ cover as always.

[Legatus]

This is all over the place and I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

I was refering to the post directly before mine, so I thought a quote would not be neccessary to understand the context. The person posting before me seemed to have the impression that the Dark Angels would be getting +1 attack in combat for having both a boltgun and a bolt pistol.

[Wolf89]

In teh combat he will have 2 attacks, 1 base attack and +1 for charging.

The definition of true grit however is that you do not receive the +1 attack from charging with a bolter.

[Legatus]

Dark Angels do not care too much about true grit anyway.

[Max_Dammit]

If you have a pistol, you have 2nd CC weapon and thus have 2 basic attacks and +1 when charging, giving 3

[Legatus]

If you have no CCW then the single bolt pistol will do no such thing.

[Max_Dammit]

so when you only have a bolter you have no CC ability?

This is a real gay area. Ill have to think about that one, but i dont have the darkangel codex, nor do I want it
and this being the fang, most of us don't care

Edited by Max_Dammit, 18 August 2008 - 10:58 AM.

[Legatus]

You don't need anything to fight in close combat. Whether a model has a boltgun or no weapon at all makes no difference. But a boltgun is not a close combat suitable weapon, so a model would need two other ccw-suitable weapons to get +1 attack.

[JamesI]

so when you only have a bolter you have no CC ability?

This is a real gay area. Ill have to think about that one, but i dont have the darkangel codex, nor do I want it
and this being the fang, most of us don't care

Dark Angels and Blood Angels get no bonus combat ability from their bolt pistol/bolter combo (except the ability to shoot before charging). They have no CCW, so no +1 attack for 2 CCWs.

[Max_Dammit]

Ok, my mistake
hope they dont do that to us