50 replies to this topic

[the great beaver]

wow, they don't have a combat knife? for serious?

and for everyone out there, the reason I bring up DA is because they're the newest marines codex i've seen.

I thought that if you had no CCW then you can't make CC attacks?

does this mean I can take a wolf guard battle leader with a storm sheild terminator armour and assault cannon, and still get to attack in CC?

thanks

[Gunstar]

wow, they don't have a combat knife? for serious?

and for everyone out there, the reason I bring up DA is because they're the newest marines codex i've seen.

I thought that if you had no CCW then you can't make CC attacks?

does this mean I can take a wolf guard battle leader with a storm sheild terminator armour and assault cannon, and still get to attack in CC?

thanks

Yes of course it does- he can club his enemies over the head with it (assault cannon) 4 times if i'm not mistaken!

[Bjorn the Fell-Handed]

It does. GH with Bolter and CCW get 3 attacks on the Counter Charge (one profile, one 2CCW, one CA), and 2 when they charge. But then again, thats what you want your GH's to do; to get close enough, hold a position, Rapid fire at the enemey and shatter their charge when they do.

I dont see it that way, GHs with bolters will only have 2 attacks no matter what
The counter rule gives a +1 assault bonus, and assaulting removes the +1 cc weapon bonus of the bolter, leaving 2 like normal assault.
so no need to roll for counter on those units, they have 2 attacks anyway

It states that you don't get a charge bonus if charging, it doesnt say that you don't get the +1 when counterattacking.It is most probably just me trying to find a hole in GW's rules.

Bjorn

[Max_Dammit]

You can always make you basic attacks with your basic strength.
and you always get +1 when charging, unless some rule says you don't.

Edited by Max_Dammit, 18 August 2008 - 06:00 PM.

[Crimson Devil]

Dark Angels and Blood Angels have Bolters and Bolt Pistols, but no CCW. Meaning that they can fire their pistols and then assault with 2 attacks. Chaos Marines have a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, & CCW. So they can fire a pistol and assault with three attacks. Space Wolves are rumored to get the Chaos load out.

Counter Attack gives a bonus attack as if we charged. That is why True Grit negates it and Blood Claws get +2 attacks.

True Grit is in no way a benefit anymore.

As long as a model as a number under attacks in their profile they may do so.

[KeithGatchalian]

http://uk.games-work.../news/errata/3/


no more rulings on storm caller means we get to strike first.

We've always been able to go first (when assaulted). This has not changed.

[Crimson Devil]

He is referring to going first when we Assault.

[Marek Grimfang]

You don't need anything to fight in close combat. Whether a model has a boltgun or no weapon at all makes no difference. But a boltgun is not a close combat suitable weapon, so a model would need two other ccw-suitable weapons to get +1 attack.

Until it becomes a club.

I am praying we don't fall to the DA/BA concept of a codex.

Dark Angels and Blood Angels have Bolters and Bolt Pistols, but no CCW. Meaning that they can fire their pistols and then assault with 2 attacks. Chaos Marines have a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, & CCW. So they can fire a pistol and assault with three attacks. Space Wolves are rumored to get the Chaos load out.

Counter Attack gives a bonus attack as if we charged. That is why True Grit negates it and Blood Claws get +2 attacks.

True Grit is in no way a benefit anymore.

As long as a model as a number under attacks in their profile they may do so.

True Grit shouldn't even be a discussin anymore since it has been for all purposes removed.

Counter-Attack is what we are salvaging and is what makes this army a beast to field.

[Crimson Devil]

For those of us with Grey Hunters armed with bolters it is a big deal. I really wish GW had just removed it with the FAQ.

[saphius]

Grey Hunter with Bolter and CCW on the charge - 2 attacks (1 base, 1 for 2ccw and NONE for charging as per True Grit Rules.)

Grey Hunter with Bolter and CCW on the Counter charge with a PASSED Leadership Check (Which Means they are treated as charging) - 2 attacks (1 base, 1 for 2CCW's and NONE for charging as per True Grit Rules.)

Grey Hunter with Bolter and CCW on the Counter charge with a FAILED Leadership Check - 2 attacks ([Still get the 'Counter-charge' Move but are not treated as charging] 1 base, 1 for 2CCW's as per rules of True Grit.)

Grey Hunter with Bolt Pistol and CCW on the Charge - 3 attacks (1 base, 1 for charging, 1 for 2 CCW's.)

Grey Hunter with Bolt Pistol and CCW on the Counter Charge with a PASSED leadership check - 3 attacks (1 base, 1 for charging, 1 for 2 CCW's)

Grey Hunter with Bolt Pistol and CCW on the Counter Charge with a FAILED leadership check - 2 Attacks (1 Base, 1 for 2 CCW's)

In any spot you can replace 'Grey Hunter' With any Space Wolf model with the True Grit rule and get the same results other than base attacks and special rules. (Blood Claws for example)

I think (this is the only part I am not certain about) that you can replace the word 'Bolter' anywhere with the word 'Combi-Weapon' and also have the same results. I don't have my codex on hand at the moment and haven't played in a while.

If you get charged and have a Wolf Pelt, you get and ADDITIONAL +1 attack whether you pass or fail your leadership check. (ADDITIONAL, this means that Space Wolves equiped with Wolf Pelts are Better on the Counter-Charge with a passed LD check than if they charged.)

This is about as clear as it gets if you want to know why we get what attacks when.

On a side not, I equip my Grey Hunters with Power Weapons and Bolt Pistols, and the rest with Bolters and CCW's so you can increase your damage with Power Weapons.

[Marek Grimfang]

Yip, it's going to get expensive point-wise again.

I used to run 3-4 GH packs all with bolters, a melta gun, WGL with PF.

Now Im thinking of going back to my 3rd Ed. list and adding two PW's into each pack with the PF WGL.

And I still prefer bolt pistol equipped GH's opposed to BC's.

Edited by Marek Grimfang, 19 August 2008 - 01:07 AM.

[the great beaver]

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[Jonny Wolf]

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What?

[Ullr Direfang]

forgive me if i sound dumb, but were has every one heard true grit is out of the picture? the faq says "use as written" and counter-attack is not an assult move. there for imo (and that of my local store) GH that have be charge can get up to 3 attacks (1 base + 1true grit + 1 counter-attack). unless i missed some thing about true grit totally going a way.

ullr

[Ullr Direfang]

and just to open a can of worms, if true grit is "use as written", then we can use combi-weapons in the same way as bolters.

ullr

[SpideyScott]

In the faq it states to use True Grit as written in the codex but use the Counter Charge rule as written in the 5th ed book. The new CC rule states you move as if assaulting i think. The SW True Grit rule states you dont get the bonus for charging. At least thats my interoperation of it.

[KeithGatchalian]

He is referring to going first when we Assault.

Which Wolves have not had since the early days of 3rd edition.

People don't read the rulebooks.

[JamesI]

and just to open a can of worms, if true grit is "use as written", then we can use combi-weapons in the same way as bolters.

ullr

Used to be able to. 4th edition took it away, 5th returns it.

[Crimson Devil]

He is referring to going first when we Assault.

Which Wolves have not had since the early days of 3rd edition.

People don't read the rulebooks.

I was clarifying not advocating. Be careful before judging.

[KeithGatchalian]

He is referring to going first when we Assault.

Which Wolves have not had since the early days of 3rd edition.

People don't read the rulebooks.

I was clarifying not advocating. Be careful before judging.

Sorry, that was aimed at the person I was originally responding to, not you.

[the great beaver]

I'm sorry is today be condescending day?

I went and looked at the rules that are written and the problem I was having was that I had 3 different FAQs from previous editions sitting in my head.

looks likes under the current rules ones Init is only ever changed when you charge into/over cover. so since you are charging into a unit that is not in cover and they are not charging you, then there is no actual change from charging without storm caller.

of course, if they charge you then you get to strike first as usual....

this is different than the FAQs of old stated and all anyone had to do was correct me (as opposed to being snarky)

[KeithGatchalian]

I'm sorry is today be condescending day?

I went and looked at the rules that are written and the problem I was having was that I had 3 different FAQs from previous editions sitting in my head.

looks likes under the current rules ones Init is only ever changed when you charge into/over cover. so since you are charging into a unit that is not in cover and they are not charging you, then there is no actual change from charging without storm caller.

of course, if they charge you then you get to strike first as usual....

this is different than the FAQs of old stated and all anyone had to do was correct me (as opposed to being snarky)

The point I was making is that there was a line in the 4th edition rulebook that basically said if you have a psychic power that counts you as being in cover, it has no affect when assaulting. From what I have gathered reading this forum is that no Space Wolf players ever saw that and tried to claim the going first when assaulting benefit.

[the great beaver]

I'm sorry is today be condescending day?

I went and looked at the rules that are written and the problem I was having was that I had 3 different FAQs from previous editions sitting in my head.

looks likes under the current rules ones Init is only ever changed when you charge into/over cover. so since you are charging into a unit that is not in cover and they are not charging you, then there is no actual change from charging without storm caller.

of course, if they charge you then you get to strike first as usual....

this is different than the FAQs of old stated and all anyone had to do was correct me (as opposed to being snarky)

The point I was making is that there was a line in the 4th edition rulebook that basically said if you have a psychic power that counts you as being in cover, it has no affect when assaulting. From what I have gathered reading this forum is that no Space Wolf players ever saw that and tried to claim the going first when assaulting benefit.

we all saw it. for 3 months we all stopped playing that way. then the FAQ for the 4rth ed. rule book came out and it explicitly stated that we go first while charging under the effects of storm caller. it was obviously copy pasted over from the older FAQ but no one could prove that.

perhaps you shouldn't tell people to read the rules when theyre simply getting mixed up by an official FAQ that came out after the 4th ed. rulebook that clearly contradicted a simple and easy to understand rule in that book. it was frustrating to say the least.

I'm just trying to get a hold of where we stand now that that clearly defined rule is no longer there. perhaps you'd like to add something constructive to what I wrote above?

[KeithGatchalian]

[

we all saw it. for 3 months we all stopped playing that way. then the FAQ for the 4rth ed. rule book came out and it explicitly stated that we go first while charging under the effects of storm caller. it was obviously copy pasted over from the older FAQ but no one could prove that.

perhaps you shouldn't tell people to read the rules when theyre simply getting mixed up by an official FAQ that came out after the 4th ed. rulebook that clearly contradicted a simple and easy to understand rule in that book. it was frustrating to say the least.

I'm just trying to get a hold of where we stand now that that clearly defined rule is no longer there. perhaps you'd like to add something constructive to what I wrote above?
[/quote]

At no time did that FAQ say Wolves went first. The Codex itself said that you went first when assaulted. There are plenty of threads on this issue, try using the search function.

[Spacefrisian]

Note on: use as worded (or something like that) the Errata talks about Venerable Dreadnoughts, however their are none as they listing it in the SW codex only a Spacewolf Venerable Dreadnought. (a difference of 9 letters).


BTW i just fix this prob with Imperial Armour.