48 replies to this topic

[Amit]

What I don't get is why was a WARGEAR book released (anyone remember 'Wargear' for 4th Ed) ... The answer apparently (from the first page)was to list all items of wargear in a single volume and to incorporate clarifications and corrections for any disparity that existed between two items of equipment...

Case in point Assualt Cannon H4 Rending in C:SM but C:DH H3 ???? ... Why to end any connfusion/misunderstanding etc etc

NOW - GW, by saying that the wargear and items from the different codeci are not similar ... seems to me to be a complete u-turn, and I agree with the point why should one army's smoke launcher be different to anothers ? They are both smoke launchers!

I listened to the recent LA GD 2008 seminar podcast; and I do agree with the point that vanilla marines need some perks aswell ... For example: So SW can not have a Thunderfire Cannon, so what they can have a Leman Russ, I am not aware of any other chapter that can have them... Black templars can not have LR Reedemer, but what other chapter can have LRC's as a troop transport option?

I feel that if all the 'fringe' chapters (eg. Angels, SW, BTs etc etc) start cannabalising all the 'good bits' from the new C:SM, they loose their unique-ness. I just wonder if this desire to have all the best bits is a view expressed mainly by power-gamers ? If you have Sternguard/Vanguard do your Wolf guard become redundant do my Sword Bretheren become obsolete?

So in summary before I get lynched:

I AGREE that similar items of wargear/equipment should be uniform throughout. A Storm Shield is a Storm Shield

I DISAGREE that fringe chapters should get all the new goodies in C:SM

Amit

[Marek Grimfang]

Codex in 2 months and we don't know about it? As much as I'd love for that to happen I don't see it coming.

I was referring to the Space MArine Codex. Just clarifying.

I too am back and forth and sitting on the fence about our 8 year old rule book. It came out when my daughter was three. She's now 11 and starts grade six next week. I want something new and fresh, SW or otherwise.

But like its been posted, the C:SW is still a viable list and there are some kick ass choices for troops and upgrades.

Ultimately a marine force to me need not be a stand and fire type of army, but rather a fast striking one.

SW's are still that. Not many armies out there can take assault based squads with multiple power weapons or fists and still be used as Troops.

I am however, tempted to run a Codex army with a Wolf theme, and it won't change much of how I play.

Full Tac Squads with no HW's and an upgraded Sgt. with PF or PW.

Full Assault Squads without Jump Packs, Rhino-borne with double flamers.

Im sure there will be something in C:SM that will help us out if doing a switch. For me C:SW feels a little to "War-bandish".

Im upset that we are left out of the mix. Nervous and excited at the same time for the change.

[ProtoClone]

I fail to see why GW would make the same piece of wargear funtion differently in 2 diferent codexes as they would surly relise that the peple with the inferior version would make more fuss than it is worth and unless you use storm sheilds it should not affect you or we can just drown out GW playing around with more ale

Icewolf

they want to make SM a little bit different, and apparently better, by giving them slightly different stuff. I see what they are trying to do. They want vanilla SM to be the ideal SM while others are not as...um...perfect.

[Marek Grimfang]

No. I wont be happy.

I wont be buying the new Space Marine codex.

I refuse to use another list to make a Wolf 'themed' army.

Mock me or disagree with me or do what you like... I love 40K, I also play Fantasy and LoTR.

I am done with all of them.

Done.

Not one more penny.

Im frothing at the mouth waiting for you to chime in on a post in the distant future and you get caught buying the book.

Can't wait.

[kanaellars]

Im frothing at the mouth waiting for you to chime in on a post in the distant future and you get caught buying the book.

Can't wait.

Go for it.

I already bought my Games Day ticket and I will be going if for no other reason than to ask about the Space Wolves myself.

I will keep reading online about what is going on in the vain hope that they will eventually release the Wolves again.

Im not buying anything else.

[Marek Grimfang]

Pester them with our questions until they give in or you are escorted out!!!

[Valhalla]

What I don't get is why was a WARGEAR book released (anyone remember 'Wargear' for 4th Ed) ... The answer apparently (from the first page)was to list all items of wargear in a single volume and to incorporate clarifications and corrections for any disparity that existed between two items of equipment...

Case in point Assualt Cannon H4 Rending in C:SM but C:DH H3 ???? ... Why to end any connfusion/misunderstanding etc etc

NOW - GW, by saying that the wargear and items from the different codeci are not similar ... seems to me to be a complete u-turn, and I agree with the point why should one army's smoke launcher be different to anothers ? They are both smoke launchers!

I listened to the recent LA GD 2008 seminar podcast; and I do agree with the point that vanilla marines need some perks aswell ... For example: So SW can not have a Thunderfire Cannon, so what they can have a Leman Russ, I am not aware of any other chapter that can have them... Black templars can not have LR Reedemer, but what other chapter can have LRC's as a troop transport option?

I feel that if all the 'fringe' chapters (eg. Angels, SW, BTs etc etc) start cannabalising all the 'good bits' from the new C:SM, they loose their unique-ness. I just wonder if this desire to have all the best bits is a view expressed mainly by power-gamers ? If you have Sternguard/Vanguard do your Wolf guard become redundant do my Sword Bretheren become obsolete?

So in summary before I get lynched:

I AGREE that similar items of wargear/equipment should be uniform throughout. A Storm Shield is a Storm Shield

I DISAGREE that fringe chapters should get all the new goodies in C:SM

Amit

While I agree that all the goodies shouldn't be shared between the chapters, this is the wrong way to go about making them all "unique". They should've used a system similar to the chapter traits to give some of the chapters such as Legion of Doom, Imperial Fists and Raven Guard who don't have a codex some feel and character to them. I mean would anyone have a problem with a page or two in the C:SM that gave some ideas on how to play one of these chapters who don't have a stand alone codex? Not to mention they call them vanilla marines for a reason.

Giving different rules to standard wargear is just flat out disgraceful.

Edited by Valhalla, 26 August 2008 - 10:05 PM.

[Megalodon]

Giving different rules to standard wargear is just flat out retarded.

Quoted for truth!

[Crimson Devil]

.....I feel that if all the 'fringe' chapters (eg. Angels, SW, BTs etc etc) start cannabalising all the 'good bits' from the new C:SM, they loose their unique-ness. I just wonder if this desire to have all the best bits is a view expressed mainly by power-gamers ? If you have Sternguard/Vanguard do your Wolf guard become redundant do my Sword Bretheren become obsolete?....

Please don't start that nonsense. People want new toys because they are new and cool looking.

....They should've used a system similar to the chapter traits to give some of the chapters such as Legion of Doom, Imperial Fists and Raven Guard who don't have a codex some feel and character to them. ....

I would just like to say I would play the Legion of Doom chapter. Lex Luther, Gorilla Grodd, Solomon Grundy in power armor!!

[Valhalla]

....They should've used a system similar to the chapter traits to give some of the chapters such as Legion of Doom, Imperial Fists and Raven Guard who don't have a codex some feel and character to them. ....

I would just like to say I would play the Legion of Doom chapter. Lex Luther, Gorilla Grodd, Solomon Grundy in power armor!!

Oops, my bad. Legion of the Damned.

I guess my main point is that if you're trying to give the codex chapters more character there are better ways of doing it, such as allowing Raven Guard to take assault marines as troops and giving them infiltrate.

[Marek Grimfang]

I guess my main point is that if you're trying to give the codex chapters more character there are better ways of doing it, such as allowing Raven Guard to take assault marines as troops and giving them infiltrate.

Wait until 5th Edition Codex:SPace Marines: Reload. It will all be settled then.

[Gunstar]

To be certain i just had a butchers in the SW codex, such as it is, and Storm shields are in italics- meaning that we take the rules for them from the codex SM... so we get the 3+ inv save when it arrives.

[dietrich]

Dietrich

I've been using that wolf lord combo for a while now and its just nasty, though mine is attached to blood claws in a land raider.

Which combo? Storm Shield and Frost Blade or Thunderhammer? With or without TDA? What I don't like about attached an IC in TDA to a unit in PA is you lose the ability to run down an enemy (think this is Sweeping Advance in fifth, but I forget).

[Dark Bjoern]

According to Phil Kelly the other Space Marine codices will not have access to the "wargear" in the new Codex: Space Marines.

I believe this will apply to Space Wolves for wargear, but no vehicles/units that our book says to take from CSM.

No 3+ storm shields then.

We get 3+ SS cause you should read the top note on page 14 of C:SW Armoury. Every item that is printed italic will be used like descripted in C:SM. Even the guys from BoLS think so: Bells of Lost Souls. And don´t forget that our ´dex is not a stand-alone-´dex.

[Kurgan the Lurker]

This is the quote from the audio of the seminar (question starts at the 53 minute mark):
http://miniaturepedd...t-la-games-day/

The question was:

Is the new rules for Space Marine equipment going to transfer over to the equipment of the same name for all the other existing Marines?"

and the answer was:

Do you mean like Dark Angels? Space Wolves?.....No the Codex books are completely discrete. So even though it may seem a bit wierd that these SM have this, these SM have that. You'll remember these guys have been forging their own path in the 41st Millenium for thousands and thousands of years and they do have slightly different wargear, doctrines and even belief systems within the different Space Marine Chapters. So they do remain discrete from each other. And also it goes back to what I was saying earlier about the normal Codex guys they need some loving too, not just all the whacky stuff 'round the outsides. So um, yeah, just think of them as completely discrete.

**EDIT - Seems that the question was asked and answered differently in the 2nd seminar of the day. See Brother Tylers post here:
http://www.bolterand...p;gopid=1673176
**

Edited by Kurgan the Lurker, 27 August 2008 - 03:08 PM.
more info

[Wolf89]

Why not? Do we have the description how a SS works in our ´dex? If not we use the C:SM as a reference.

Summary in the back.

I'm currently in class, but I know for a fact we use SS according to SM codex. We have items listed as Italisized we use the SM Codex, and storm shields are italisized.

I'll get a better description later tonight.

[Valhalla]

Dietrich

I've been using that wolf lord combo for a while now and its just nasty, though mine is attached to blood claws in a land raider.

Which combo? Storm Shield and Frost Blade or Thunderhammer? With or without TDA? What I don't like about attached an IC in TDA to a unit in PA is you lose the ability to run down an enemy (think this is Sweeping Advance in fifth, but I forget).

Dietrich

My wolf Lord is in PA with a FB, storm shield and wolf pelt. He comes out to be around 110 points and is a great value and last week took on two 10 man ultramarine tactical squads by himself and won (maybe I should start a thread to re-tell his legends?). I used the Inquisitor Coteaz model and modified the left arm to hold a storm shield.

[Ullr Direfang]

i really hope things get cleared up in a new FAQ when the new C:SM comes out

[dietrich]

I usually don't bother with a wolf tooth necklace, but with so many ICs now going to WS 6, I'm thinking our lowly WS 5 ICs will need it.

[Ian Hockert]

Well I think the developers may have a tad bit more impetus to get a new Wolf codex completed once they realize how brutal the Wolf codex will be with the new marine dex. A couple Wolf Guard terminator squads with storm shields, two or three assault cannons and storm bolters and maybe a chainfist or thunderhammer for the attached character will definitely get the attention of the playerbase and hopefully the devs too. I'd be willing to bet that that will be the most ruthless thing to come out of the new SM dex and the poor Ultramarines won't even get it.

[Derangedgamer]

1.800.394.4263

call this ## once a Day every day untill you get an FAQ

if only 30 people do this i bet it will make a huge difference!!!!

I have many committed and if we all pitch in it will make there order lines busy with no orders!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ragnar Lodbrok]

1.800.394.4263

call this ## once a Day every day untill you get an FAQ

if only 30 people do this i bet it will make a huge difference!!!!

I have many committed and if we all pitch in it will make there order lines busy with no orders!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would you flood a companies sales lines just to complain to get a FAQ?

[The God Emperor]

I say that our wargears should be updated and use the rules from the Codex: SM instead.

The vanilla boys can keep their new goodies, just give me options for specific types of ammo for my Wolfguards at extra cost of course.

Vanilla can keep their Vanguard/Sternguard and Thunderfire.

I like the way our codex is, just increase the price here and decrease the price there and we're good and brutal again, not to say we're not brutal right now.

[Lord Ragnarok]

The problem we have over DA and BA is that our dex relies heavily on the SM codex. Unless there is a good FAQ, I don't see GW not allowing us to draw from it.

In terms of new/extra stuff not covered in our current dex/FAQ, I don't care that we don't get them. We have plenty of kiliyness in our dex.