Justicar Crucius Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Lets think about this ... how could Loken possibly survive horrible wounds and still live for thousands of years? What in the fluff - and in game terms - allows a SM to continue life for that long? [Hint, hint] If you think about it, Abandon is just as old as loken would be if not older Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Lets think about this ... how could Loken possibly survive horrible wounds and still live for thousands of years? What in the fluff - and in game terms - allows a SM to continue life for that long? [Hint, hint] If you think about it, Abandon is just as old as loken would be if not older Abaddon is older than Loken, according to rumour, and may in fact be amongst the very oldest space marines: "...(Abaddon) is rumoured to be the clone son of Horus himself, product of the earliest Primogenitor experiments." Codexs: Chaos, Second Ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 they better not bring Loken back!!! if they do, then that would just kill his character to me!! it'd be like saying the Night Haunter didn't die!! although i definitely agree about the whole aximand lowers shields thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godspear Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 they better not bring Loken back!!! if they do, then that would just kill his character to me!! it'd be like saying the Night Haunter didn't die!! although i definitely agree about the whole aximand lowers shields thing. Um, the Night Haunter may not, in fact, be dead... the vid screen cut out before anything happened. It's also been implied that he had multiple personalities as well, making it entirely possible for his other identity to take over on the instinct of self preservation and kill M'Shen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moranimal Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Lets think about this ... how could Loken possibly survive horrible wounds and still live for thousands of years? What in the fluff - and in game terms - allows a SM to continue life for that long? [Hint, hint] For those who want it specifically stated, ... Rumor has it that Loken will indeed survive, but will have to be interred within a dreadnought as his injuries are to severe to overcome. This dreadnought may be from whatever is left on Istvaan III, or more likely from spares on the IF fleet that shows up later to investigate. In Fight for the Abyss, there were a number of spare dreadnoughts on board for the future anticipated casualties, so this seems to be standard SM doctrine. Of course you know that only one was actually used, if you have read the book already. True to not, we shall see. Edit: Corrected spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigger-than-Jesus Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 In the Heresy artbooks, 8 marines and 4 normal humans are brought before the Emperor. All 8 of those marines were latent psykers who kept the ability under wraps due to the council of Nikea. At the end of FotE malcador fetches Garro and Qruze. Seems a decent enough argument for me that they helped found the Grey Knights, especially as how they put aside all loyalty to their legion and Primarch(who they viewed as the demigods who they'd gladly die beside) in order to leg it across the Imperium to warn the Emperor of what was going on. If that's not pure geneseed, I don't know what is(at least from the Imperium's point of view) they better not bring Loken back!!! if they do, then that would just kill his character to me!! it'd be like saying the Night Haunter didn't die!! although i definitely agree about the whole aximand lowers shields thing. Um, the Night Haunter may not, in fact, be dead... the vid screen cut out before anything happened. It's also been implied that he had multiple personalities as well, making it entirely possible for his other identity to take over on the instinct of self preservation and kill M'Shen. There's the minor issue of Zso Sahaal witnessing the whole thing. The Haunter got beheaded, Zso hunted her, he killed her pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 my point was that Loken's sacrifice made him cooler ;) much like the Haunter dying just to prove his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godspear Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 There's the minor issue of Zso Sahaal witnessing the whole thing. The Haunter got beheaded, Zso hunted her, he killed her pretty damn good. BAH! I haven't read Lord of Night yet! Don't tell me! It's on my bookshelf waiting for me to finish the Blood Angels Omnibus! You're like my room mate that told me, while I was watching Cowboy Bebop, that Spike dies at the end. ;) I had to put the series down. No point in watching it. my point was that Loken's sacrifice made him cooler :) much like the Haunter dying just to prove his point. I agree completely. Loken should stay dead. He died a hero, resurrecting him would cheapen the series, much like Battle For The Abyss already has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 BAH! I haven't read Lord of Night yet! Don't tell me! It's on my bookshelf waiting for me to finish the Blood Angels Omnibus! You're like my room mate that told me, while I was watching Cowboy Bebop, that Spike dies at the end. ;) I had to put the series down. No point in watching it. He probably should have used spoiler tags... but there's a hell of a lot more to the book than that bit. In fact, it's more of a beginning than anything. Read it, it's worth it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godspear Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 BAH! I haven't read Lord of Night yet! Don't tell me! It's on my bookshelf waiting for me to finish the Blood Angels Omnibus! You're like my room mate that told me, while I was watching Cowboy Bebop, that Spike dies at the end. I had to put the series down. No point in watching it. He probably should have used spoiler tags... but there's a hell of a lot more to the book than that bit. In fact, it's more of a beginning than anything. Read it, it's worth it. :) I intend to, I wasn't mad or anything, just amused at the parallel that immediately leapt to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonius Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I'm sure I read somewhere in Legion a bit where it is implied/hinted by Grammaticus or some other Cabal personage, that all Primarchs and all Marines are inherently psychic (presumably due to their genetic relationship to the Emperor), but that this potential has been sorpressed or something - not got it with me right now, so can't check. This would definitely give an option for Garro and his guys - maybe Loken, Tarvitz et al too - if they do get to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Well, all humans have a presence in the warp regardless of whether or not they can draw on that connection for psychic potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hmmm, what do people think of Loken being a dreadnought? I mean, I could see it, and it wouldn't bug me too too much. One, big, pissed off, vengeful, tank...with legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Hmmm, what do people think of Loken being a dreadnought? I mean, I could see it, and it wouldn't bug me too too much. One, big, pissed off, vengeful, tank...with legs. Because everything is scarier with legs. I wouldn't really *want* to see Loken come back, as a dread or no. I really thought that the ending of Galaxy in Flames heavily implied that Abaddon killed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEFF4i Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Hmmm, what do people think of Loken being a dreadnought? I mean, I could see it, and it wouldn't bug me too too much. One, big, pissed off, vengeful, tank...with legs. Because everything is scarier with legs. I wouldn't really *want* to see Loken come back, as a dread or no. I really thought that the ending of Galaxy in Flames heavily implied that Abaddon killed him. True, and I agree, but I could swallow a dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkey Kong Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Hmmm, what do people think of Loken being a dreadnought? I mean, I could see it, and it wouldn't bug me too too much. One, big, pissed off, vengeful, tank...with legs. Because everything is scarier with legs. I wouldn't really *want* to see Loken come back, as a dread or no. I really thought that the ending of Galaxy in Flames heavily implied that Abaddon killed him. True, and I agree, but I could swallow a dread. Wasn't it Ancient Rylanor, the Emperor's Children dreadnought that was rumored to come back, seeing as how he was guarding some underground hanger and didn't exactly get stepped on by our beloved titan friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Principality Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Please people, let him rest. If the Black Library writers have even an ounce of common sense then they wont raise him from the dead. Deus Ex Machina resurections have always been an extremly cheap plot device and i would hate to see it. For more Lunar Wolfs/ Sons of Horus drama ( if thats realy necessary...cause...it isnt like we have 5 other traitor legions + the loyalists which werent explored yet ) there are other characters which arent maimed by tons of stone, like Horus Aximand and his buddy (?) Abaddon. I agree, but Loken was just such a likable character. He made such a great hero without being boring and overdone. The entire series was an interesting concept, and I'm surprised that it's being treated like official fluff because it makes some statements that really clash with some of the things I believed about the 40k universe. I just liked him as a character so much that there is always part of me wishing he'll come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godspear Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Please people, let him rest. If the Black Library writers have even an ounce of common sense then they wont raise him from the dead. Deus Ex Machina resurections have always been an extremly cheap plot device and i would hate to see it. For more Lunar Wolfs/ Sons of Horus drama ( if thats realy necessary...cause...it isnt like we have 5 other traitor legions + the loyalists which werent explored yet ) there are other characters which arent maimed by tons of stone, like Horus Aximand and his buddy (?) Abaddon. I agree, but Loken was just such a likable character. He made such a great hero without being boring and overdone. The entire series was an interesting concept, and I'm surprised that it's being treated like official fluff because it makes some statements that really clash with some of the things I believed about the 40k universe. I just liked him as a character so much that there is always part of me wishing he'll come back. I think that's what makes his death so effective. For three books the reader is led through the beginning of the Heresy by this amazing character and when he's beaten into paste by Abaddon, then has a church fall on him, then gets orbitally bombarded, it completes the tragedy of both the series and the Heresy itself. I almost read his looking up and seeing the descending virus bombs as something of a literary tableaux vivant, but I could be giving the author too much credit. In death, Loken is a much more powerful character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imrix Posted November 8, 2008 Share Posted November 8, 2008 Hey, you know what Loken's future role could be? A CORPSE! Yeah, mark me down as part of the "he's a better character if he stays dead" camp. Resurrections are already a cheap plot device that plagues comics, I'd rather we didn't bring it into Warhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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