Luc O' Luck Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Oh come on! The Emperor screwed up, simple as. If nothing else, he certainly screwed up his first impressions with the Primarch's First impressions are important, and in several key places, the Emperor screwed his up. Angron and Lorgar spring to mind. Knowing that Angron is devoted to his men, what does Golden Boy do? Does he land with fire and thunder, unload some Custodes and help his son? Does he extract Angron and his army, surgically augment the ex-slaves and set Angron loose on his homeworld as a cathartic baptism of fire? No. He teleports Angron away, leaving the men Angron is singularly devoted to, to die. 'Nuff said, really. The Emperor has shown willingness to help the Primarch's through problems on their hoemworlds, so obviously he wasn't too pressed for time, and this sort of first impression is very important. You can talk as much as you like about how the Primarch's were simply expected to do their duty, but one of the foremost principles of a good commander is to make your troops like you, because if they don't, all sorts of trouble happens. And as for Lorgar... The waste of resources there was practically criminal. Yes, the Emperor wanted warriors, not priests, but faith need not be religious. One can have faith in an ideal, a virtue, or a vice. Faith in honour, in truth, in compassion, etc. Lorgar was given to being faithful- so what? Re-direct it, don't try to destroy it- and this is all putting aside the notion of warrior-priests, who have historically been horrifically effective. The Knights Templar were one of the most powerful military organizations of their day, and they were religious fanatics. After all, the Emperor was well aware of the threat of Chaos, and how much powerful belief could hurt it. So, upon being handed an entire legion of ready-made daemon-killers, he suits them up and makes use of the- Oh wait, sorry, that's what a sensible person would have done. There are more, of course, but I think I've made my point.. First off, the Emperor was well aware of Chaos, and how much powerful belief can feed it. Religion, faith in gods, all flows back to the Warp and the Chaos Gods. The building block of the Imperial doctrine leading up to the great crusade was "Science and Reason are the only Sensible Ways to manage mankind". The future was supposed to be bright, the future was supposed to belong to the Athiest. You educate humanity not to worship gods of any form, you steal the power from the Chaos gods. Humanity's faith is as much it's destruction as it is its salvation. The Emperor knew this, he'd lived through virtually all of Human History, so he knew what evil Religion could be, both in practical terms, and in Psycic and mystical ones. As for his judgement calls, you have to realise that the Emperor was always looking at the big picture. Not, "Build a Galaxy Spanning Empire" big picture, that was all abit too small scale for the Emperor. No, the Emperor's mission in life, from the moment he was Psycically immaculately conceived, was to guide Humanity towards it's destiny as a psycically aware, active and dominant life. To lead humanity to the next evolutionary level. It's possible to see the Emperor as the ultimate model of what an evolved human is, given that the Psykers of the 41st millenium are still amongst humanities evolutionary first steps towards the next direction in the species' history. The Primarchs were a means to an end. The Space Marines are a means to an end. The Imperium is a means to an end. So he has to upset one of his Primarchs in saving his life. Boo-frickin'-hoo. The Emperor created this Biological Weapon in a gestation tank underneath the himalayas. I hardly think that the walking weapon's emotional well being was at the height of the Emperor's concerns. Worst case scenario, he breaks the Primarchs and has to make new ones. It dosen't matter to him as long as it gets the job done. It's not like he has to worry about dying of old age before he gets the chance. Understand, the Emperor is a Grade A Pragmatic Bratwurst, no doubt about it. After living almost fourty thousand years amongst humanity, it'd be hard not to be. Everything is the big picture. What's a hundred years of preparing to reunite Terra, when you spent eight thousand years without a flushing toilet? End of the day, all the Emperor cared about was pushing Humanity towards its destiny as an uncorruptable pyscicly powerful race. Everything else in the Imperium and Galaxy was simply a means to an end to this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 See, I'd sympathize with the Emperor being a "pragmatic bratwurst" - if he'd won. But he didn't. And his being such a pragmatist, concerned with his plans and his vision far above his sons and their well-being, or his people and their well-being, is in large part what contributed to his downfall. It's understandable that he is so, but the failures this creates turn it into a great, great flaw. Which, of course, is wholly appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc O' Luck Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 What people seem to forget when they talk about the Emperor, is that at the end of the day, he was only human. Sure, he had psycic power unrivalled by any living creature, and the knowledge that Humanity teetered on the verge of extinction every second of every day, but he was still a member of the human race. Just very, very, very, very old and very, very, very, very alienated. He'd reached the next evolutionary step, and it fell to him to make sure that the rest of the species caught up. No pressure there, Empy. You're all that stands between humanity and extinction, but no pressure. Oh, you messed up... How very... Human of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Human? Not really. Only genetically. Mentally he is a whole mass of humanity. The minds of thousands of ancient shamans all living a single eternal life, and the powers of all of mankind's most powerful original psykers fused together into one soul that has the power to endlessly combat the combined might of Chaos is the Sea Of Souls. So consider the wisdom accumulated by the minds of thousands of wisemen over the course of more than 49,000 years and compound that into knowledge and wisdom wielded by one man. I think it's entirely plausible and in fact VERY likely that The Emperor made far less mistakes than you'd be lead to believe. Every step of the way he could have known he was causing rivalry between the Primarchs. He could have had a very clear idea of where his actions would lead him. There's no telling what lies in the power of a mind of such totally unfathomable scope. Perhaps his actual plan is still at work just as he intended 10,000 years ago. Perhaps discussing his parenting skills is actually silly, because maybe he regarded his Primarchs simply as his most valuable set of tools to achieve some greater destiny for mankind. But then again, who knows? He could have just been as easy to comprehend as any other simple fictional character. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 The irony is that by suppressing his human emotions and relationships, and expecting his sons to lack them as well, he actually caused his own downfall. He wasn't inhuman enough, and he wasn't human enough. A weaker man might have cared more for the Primarchs, and treated them less as objects and servants. A stronger man wouldn't have needed them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Mechanicum gives us one of his past identities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 And so I shall become master of Mankind. My people shall know me by my true name: Derick. -Emperor Derick during Unification Wars Why did you leave me Father? I love you! - Horus You know why. - Derick, Master of Mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evolved23 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 personally I feel that if the emperors name were revealed the whole universe would implode either that or it turns out its some looooooooooooooooooong name that takes decades to pronounce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Here's a point - what if knowing the Emperor's True Name gives you power over him, much like knowing a Daemon's True Name gives you power over it. Could Horus knowing/not knowing the Emperor's name been the key to the fight on Horus' Battlebarge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 All these complicated explanations... His name's The Emperor. His friends call him "The". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Janos Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 dont really see how THE EMPEROR is such a bad parent, i mean the primarchs were already fully grown when HE found them, at least HE went looking for them! Not many parents would conquer half the galaxy to find them then give them places of power commanding legions of gene-coded Space Marines for them to play about with! Personally I think the Heresy was simply because Horus was jealous of attention being spread among the other Primarchs. As for HIS name, it has carefully been carefully hidden in the human psyche scince the dawn of time, we all know what it is, we just dont know, that we know what it is... you will find no trace of Imperial Propaganda in this post whatsoever :eek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiss Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 ? Don't we know for a fact why the Heresy began? I mean, the whole word bearer thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I think if chaos knew his name they would use it as a perverse beltittling of him, but i have my own theory on where the emperor came from and why he has no real name. I believe it ties in with the two missing primarches (well just one at the moment), this particular primarch was sucked into the warp back through time to 8000 b.c, yes you heard me, the emperor is HIS OWN FATHER..........smacks of red dwarf does it not.. OurRobOrRos.... i know we will call him the emperor!!! GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 "And upon His armour was emblazoned a snake eating its own tail . . . ." I know that episode too. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Of course his sons knew his name: Father or The Emperor What kind of name could you give to the master of mankind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdoug99 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 OMG! the emperor's name is CHUCK NORRIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 superdoug99 Posted Today, 12:47 PM OMG! the emperor's name is CHUCK NORRIS I've been hearing a lot about this all over the B&C, so in response I may have to commit the biggest heresy ever seen on the B&C . . . Who's Chuck Norris? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Who's Chuck Norris? :P Is this a joke???? Chuck Norris man, who doesnt know chuck Norris, champion kickboxer and filmstar. Most famous for walker texas ranger, had a cameo in the recent dodgeball movie at the end as a judge. A force of one. Sidekicks. Does this help?? GC08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Ahh . . . . THAT Chuck Norris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 One of the dumber jokes that the internet has produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oor_Mate_vlad Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Ok, I've been seeing alot of talk on the whole Shaman deal. Wasn't that retconned with the Sensei and teh Star Child Theory? But if the Emperor is the will of the Shaman made flesh then surely he does nothing but sit on the Golden Throne all day singing "E's are good, E's are good, he's ebeneezer good" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 But after 10,000 years doing the same thing I guess you can grow a little bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamafore Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Oh come on! The Emperor screwed up, simple as. If nothing else, he certainly screwed up his first impressions with the Primarch's First impressions are important, and in several key places, the Emperor screwed his up. Angron and Lorgar spring to mind. Knowing that Angron is devoted to his men, what does Golden Boy do? Does he land with fire and thunder, unload some Custodes and help his son? Does he extract Angron and his army, surgically augment the ex-slaves and set Angron loose on his homeworld as a cathartic baptism of fire? No. He teleports Angron away, leaving the men Angron is singularly devoted to, to die. 'Nuff said, really. The Emperor has shown willingness to help the Primarch's through problems on their hoemworlds, so obviously he wasn't too pressed for time, and this sort of first impression is very important. You can talk as much as you like about how the Primarch's were simply expected to do their duty, but one of the foremost principles of a good commander is to make your troops like you, because if they don't, all sorts of trouble happens. And as for Lorgar... The waste of resources there was practically criminal. Yes, the Emperor wanted warriors, not priests, but faith need not be religious. One can have faith in an ideal, a virtue, or a vice. Faith in honour, in truth, in compassion, etc. Lorgar was given to being faithful- so what? Re-direct it, don't try to destroy it- and this is all putting aside the notion of warrior-priests, who have historically been horrifically effective. The Knights Templar were one of the most powerful military organizations of their day, and they were religious fanatics. After all, the Emperor was well aware of the threat of Chaos, and how much powerful belief could hurt it. So, upon being handed an entire legion of ready-made daemon-killers, he suits them up and makes use of the- Oh wait, sorry, that's what a sensible person would have done. There are more, of course, but I think I've made my point.. The Templars were also very good bankers :ermm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Here's a point - what if knowing the Emperor's True Name gives you power over him, much like knowing a Daemon's True Name gives you power over it. Could Horus knowing/not knowing the Emperor's name been the key to the fight on Horus' Battlebarge. Doesn't the Emperor have some sort of link to the "Illuminati" (I think they have been mentioned in some 40K sources, I could be wrong, somebody please retcon me if I am!). Any way, they would perhaps know his name, and of course it's known that the Illuminati are one for conspiracies, so maybe it was a conspiracy that hid his name even from the primarchs, because like Grand Master Tyrak says, could it be possible that if Horus knew the Emperor's true name, then he would have power over his own father. Just a thought. ;) :huh: -_- :) :blink: :geek: :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwenCrute Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 His name's Owen, of course. What are you all looking at me like that for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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