arbogast1 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 someone mentioned that the emperor knew all along that his actions would result in his sons rebelling and that he used this as a means to an end. i would have to disagree with that. his goal was to united mankind through-out the galaxy and to rule all of humanity. the great crusade helped him achieve that goal. the fact that he alienated half of his sons and returned to terra where he essentially ignored them doesnt really help that goal. there was no reason for him to induce a rebellion to solidify his power. he wasnt exactly in charge of a democracy, hence "emperor" as opposed to "the president of mankind". he was already all-powerful. leaders usually manufacture some sort of calamity or emergency to become even more powerful. he had no political opponents nor did he lack any type of political power. he had literally nothing to gain, and clearly a lot to lose, considering he practically died as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forgeman Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I also subscribe to the view that, not only did the Emperor foresee the Heresy but planned it. Horus rebelled against the Emperor because he believed the Emperor wanted to create a future where He would become a god and His loyal sons forgotten. By rebelling this is exactly the future Horus made happen and now the Emperor is now the Starchild and may one day be reborn as the New Man again. Realm of Chaos, The Lost and the DamnedThus the soul of the Emperor was cast adrift into the warp. While the Emperor's soul survived there was still hope for mankind. For just as the New Man had been born from the collective souls of the shamans of old, so the Emperor's soul might be reborn one day. But that day would lie far in the future, when the cries for a new saviour would strengthen the core of the Emperor's soul and rekindle it into new life. There's a short story in RoC LatD where the Emperor acknowledges to Himself that He could not see beyond the Heresy but I would say, suitably tweaked with all the material that has come out since then and most particularly in the HH series that in actual fact the Emperor wanted the Heresy to happen, as part of His overall long term plan to destroy the Chaos Powers by assuring His own apotheosis. As for His name this is also from RoC LatD: Only much later would he identify his birth as the eighth millenium BC or the place as central Anatolia, and by then he would have almost forgotten his early life among the barren mountains and cold streams. Almost forgotten but maybe the Emperor no longer remembered His name. Someone used a very similar idea as that presented to us about the life of the Emperor in the film The Man from Earth; not a massively great film but worth a watch I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-chaplain Astador Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 If you heard his name your head would explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Andrecus Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 His name is George. Why, you ask? It's in Mechanicum. When Dalia and the others went into the Noctis Labyrynthus and she got sucked into the book thingy that re-played memories, it played back, essentially, the story of Saint George and the Dragon. He's said to be a warrior in Diocletian's army, as some of the St. George lore indicates. And the king's daughter checks out, as well as the fact that the Dragon eats maidens... So yah. His name is George. Highlight the black boxes to see the spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 Saint George is only one of his guises IMHO. He was born 8000 b.c. after all. ^_^ His real name is Tracy, as told to us in the Book of Lastie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Skaav Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 =][= ORIGINAL COMMENT IN REGARDS TO THE ABOVE TOPIC POST BY "IMPERIALIS_DOMINATUS" DELETED =][= Let's just face it, I don't think it was ever GW's intention to even give the Emperor a name in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Saint George is only one of his guises IMHO. He was born 8000 b.c. after all. :huh: His real name is Tracy, as told to us in the Book of Lastie. I don't know about Tracy, but he probably had hundreds or thousands of names and names aren't the important issue when it comes to saving mankind, plus you don't know for sure that the Primarchs did not know one of his names...I would think either way that they would rise above such a mundane issue. Also: No parent is THAT good. With so many personalities friction and rebellion is natural. Don't put people on pedestals, even the Emperor (a human after all remember). You'd just be deceiving yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyundivided Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The Emperor clearly was a piss poor parent. When half your kids try and kill you, you clearly had bigger parenting issues than keeping your name a mystery. Worse than that, he lost contact with most of them for over a century! What kind of cuss-worthy parenting is that?!? TV: "Its 99 years since you last saw them, do YOU know where your children are?" Emperor: "I told you last night, NO!!" Anyway, The Emperors real name is Yelnik McGwawa. Thank me later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Hadafix Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Of the Emperor's parenting skills, well, look no further than those gods from Ancient to relatively Modern and none of them really match up to parent of the year. If he has a name then GW aint saying and He is so old and lived so many lives that unless they are recorded somewhere. And if Chaos knows they aint saying and who would believe those guys anyway. Use of the Eagle is a mainly Continental European and US thing, so must have something in the common with them in one of his lives. As is Empire building. Of being Neanderthal of origin or Homo sapient is an other question, Neanderthals have been shown to have been fairly peaceful and inventive, Homosapien's or what ever came after Neanderthals have a tendency towards violence, Archeological evidence is of this. Put to put things in perspective, its a work of fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaStone Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I reckon his name is *EPIC VOICE* ROBO-SAURAS! Regarding his parenting skills, I reckon the primarchs lacked discipline. He should of just been like 'Horus, what the hell do you think you're doing? If you don't call of this heresy you don't get Christmas OR a birthday!' That would have calmed Horus down ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Use of the Eagle is a mainly Continental European and US thing, so must have something in the common with them in one of his lives. As is Empire building. He was born in what is now Turkey. The symbol of the Patriarch of Constantinople was the double-headed eagle. It was also used by the Byzantines, Hittites, Holy Roman Empire, Russian Federation, German Confederation, and various other countries and institutions in a circle around Turkey. It's safe to say that that's where GW got it from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyundivided Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Homosapien's or what ever came after Neanderthals Homo Erectus apparently. As for the propensity towards violence thing, if using genetically-altered super soldiers to conquer half the galaxy through either diplomacy or force of arms isn't violent, then what is? Its violence, its just smart violence because The Emperor was at little if any risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 The Emperor is basically like a modern, super wealthy father who is so immerse in running his business that he has little time to spend with his sons. Moreover if they are 20 and are scattered around the galaxy! After all he decided to give some expensive toys to keep them occupied (the legions) and learn to run the company but at the end of the road it will always be a son or two who will blame his father for not spending enough time with him (Lorgar, Horus). Those sons soon begin to meet undesirable companions and start doing bad things. Not a new story... :P :P Now, one thing is getting upset or resented with your father for his lack of attention and other is try to kill him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battle Brother Loken Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 this is kinda relavent because of his whole name thingy Emperor: Old woman! Dennis: Man! Emperor: Man, sorry... What Primarch lives in that fortress over there? Dennis: I'm 37! Emperor: What? Dennis: I'm 37, I'm not old! Emperor: Well I can't just call you "Man"... Dennis: You could say "Dennis"... Emperor: I didn't know you were called Dennis. Dennis: Well you didn't bother to find out, did you? Emperor: I did say sorry about the old woman, but from behind you looked... Dennis: (interrupting) What I object to is your automatically treatin' me like an inferior! Emperor: Well I AM the Emperor... Dennis: Oh, Emperor, eh? Oh, very nice... And how'd you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By hanging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society! If there's ever gonna be any progress in our galaxy... Woman: Denny, there's some lovely grox-patties down here! [Noticing the Emperor] Oh! How d'you do? Emperor: How do you do, good lady. I am the Emperor, Emperor of the Imperials. Whose fortress is that? Woman: Emperor of the who? Emperor: The Imperials. Woman: Who are the Imperials? Emperor: Well we all are... We humans are all Imperials... And I am your Emperor. Woman: I didn't know we had a Emperor... I thought we were an autonomous collective. Dennis: You're foolin' yourself. We're livin' in a pseudo-fascist religious extremist dictatorship! A self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes... Woman: (interrupting) Oh there you go, bringing class into it again... Dennis: That's what it's all about! If only people would... Emperor: Please, please, good people, I am in haste. Who lives in that fortress? Woman: No one lives there. Emperor: Then who is your planetary-governor? Woman: We don't have a planetary-governor. Emperor: What? Dennis: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to sort of act as a sort of executive officer for the week. Emperor: Yes. Dennis: But all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting... Emperor: Yes I see. Dennis: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs... Emperor: Be quiet! Dennis: But by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major... Emperor: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet! Woman: Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Emperor: I am your Emperor! Woman: Well I didn't vote for you! Emperor: You don't vote for Emperors. Woman: Well how'd you become Emperor then? [Angelic music plays...] Emperor: The great shamans of old, in their inherent wisdom, combined their psychic forces to produce me, the Saviour of humanity! My mind sends forth a pure, iridescent beacon of hope from my Golden Throne. THAT is why I am your Emperor! Dennis: (interrupting) Listen, dirty ol' hippies creating psychic-babies in a mental orgy is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical drum-circle ceremony! Emperor: Be quiet! Dennis: Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because you poo in a posh commode! Emperor: SHUT UP! Dennis: Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because I'm a walking lighthouse, they'd put me away! Emperor: SHUT UP! WILL YOU SHUT UP! [Grabs Dennis] Dennis: Ah! Now we see the grim-darkness inherent in the system! Emperor: SHUT UP! Dennis: Oh, come and see the grim-darkness inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed! Emperor: (muttering) Bloody heretic! Dennis: Oh, what a giveaway! Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about! Did you see him repressin' me? You saw it, didn't you? Emperor: (firing bolter) DAKKA!DAKKA! (END OF SCENE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyundivided Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 This might be the Ork player in me, but is it not possible that people just accepted The Emperor as boss because he was bigger than everyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rindaris Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 'Nuff said, really. The Emperor has shown willingness to help the Primarch's through problems on their hoemworlds, so obviously he wasn't too pressed for time, and this sort of first impression is very important. You can talk as much as you like about how the Primarch's were simply expected to do their duty, but one of the foremost principles of a good commander is to make your troops like you, because if they don't, all sorts of trouble happens. Reading this made me think of the novel Ender's Game. Ender's crew liked him, loved him, and because of that they were able to win a war they never even knew they were fighting. Ender pushed them to their limits and beyond, but in the end their love for him is what made it all possible. The difference here is why the Emperor probably did love his Primarchs as sons, could those same Primarchs love the Emperor like a father? I doubt it. I don't doubt that there was some sense of love there, but honestly it was more likely akin to a genetic bonding rather then true fatherly-son affection. And then you have to consider all the marines who were brainwashed, effectively, into stern loyalty. The Primarch themselves didn't fall away from their Emperor. Their entire legions did, for the most part. The Emperor was flawed in many ways. The worst was that thinking just because he created something that it would remain loyal to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Sasha Posted January 22, 2009 Share Posted January 22, 2009 The Emperor's real name, along with all the gene coding for the primarchs, was on a CD-ROM that was left on a train by an MI5 employee... It had to be changed for security purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutteman Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I think somebody mentioned this earlier, but maybe the Emperor just sounds a hell of a lot better/imposing/commanding then Bob. I mean could you respect a Great Crusade launched by an all powerful man called Bob. Imagine it. Instead of "In the name of the Emperor" it would be "In the name of Emperor Bob you shall die...umm...Sir why are the Xenos scum sniggering". Also I partly agree with Raulmichile, The Emperor had pretty crap parenting skills.But then,lets face it. If you were running the galaxy you might feel a bit tempted to just buy your kids a few toys and leave it at that. I mean you can't expect the Emperor to be a good parent as well as everything else. (I'd also like to point out that Chaos kind of had something to do with it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Andrecus Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 'Nuff said, really. The Emperor has shown willingness to help the Primarch's through problems on their hoemworlds, so obviously he wasn't too pressed for time, and this sort of first impression is very important. You can talk as much as you like about how the Primarch's were simply expected to do their duty, but one of the foremost principles of a good commander is to make your troops like you, because if they don't, all sorts of trouble happens. Really? Isn't fear the greatest motivator of all? And when you go to such great lengths to get your men to love you, what's going to happen if you get killed? It breaks them apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Yes. I will make my armed troops fear me. Nothing could go wrong with that. Certainly there is no risk of one of them snapping and shooting my one day. And we damn well can expect the Empire of man to be a good parent when his children are his most important generals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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