The Legions Command

[ChaosLord Leon Enaek]

Hey, guys!

Listen, I need help. My mate is planning a Great Crusade/Heresy campaign thing, and we need to know the following;

-Did the Primarch have command over Ogryns, like they commanded the Army?

-Had the Cyclops Demolition Vehicle been invented?

-And finally-What key areas under the Legion's control rarely/always turned to Chaos along with the Legion?

 

Thanks!

[JEFF4i]

1. No. Ogryns are part of the Guard, and though I'm not sure at that point, most likely not even in the Guard in M31.

2. Not sure.

3. Everyone but Chaplians and a very few crazy dudes who stayed loyal to the Emperor.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

The exception to the Chaplains rule is the Word Bearers, whose Chaplains were heavily involved in turning the Legion, and now serve as Dark Apostles.

[JEFF4i]

Very true. I still hate the Word Bearers though.

[docbp87]

I still hate the Word Bearers though.

 

:D Why?

[metcalfedan]

I still hate the Word Bearers though.

 

:( Why?

I can answer that: The original evil guys. Nuff said.

[Mal]

aww c'mon you have to love the bad guys, without them we wouldhave not reason to shout MAIM! BURN! KILL!

[JEFF4i]

Few things bother me more than such zealotry as seen in the Word Bearers. Yes, I know it is very prevelant in W40k, but they take it to a whole new level.

[Pacific81]

Hey, guys!

Listen, I need help. My mate is planning a Great Crusade/Heresy campaign thing, and we need to know the following;

-Did the Primarch have command over Ogryns, like they commanded the Army?

The legions were very different to the current chapters in that, rather than just the command of marines, the Primarch's often had ultimate control over any units that made up a particular expidition. We know that this also extended to the ships, as in several of the HH books marines had been in control of the navy. An example is Ullanor where Horus planned the invasion by over 1 million soldiers, including his entire legion and the imperial army. I get the impression that control was delegated to his own captains and imperial army commanders, but ultimately the decisions rest with him.

 

I guess we don't know what 'abhumans' were part of the Imperium. The ratlings/ogryns/squats (beastmen?) and other stable mutations were discovered throughout the great crusade so I guess it would depend in what period you're setting your army, obviously unification-era armies would not have featured these. I do get the impression that there is more tolerance for this kind of thing during the GC - one of the founding principles being to bring humans back into the fold of Terra, even if they have strayed somewhat.

-Had the Cyclops Demolition Vehicle been invented?

Generally for pre-heresy stuff I would say 'yes' unless we are explicitly told otherwise. So stuff like the Razorback ("OMG why didn't we think of sticking a gun on the roof these past 5000 years?") and the LR crusader ("so thats how you stick all those bolters together!") is indeed restricted. However, even then its not clear cut - we've been told that various adaptations and other forms of vehicle were used during the crusade, with much more variety than in the 41st millenium, so I always say let your imagination go to town and then just think up a good story as to why you have included whatever unit in your army :P

 

-And finally-What key areas under the Legion's control rarely/always turned to Chaos along with the Legion?

From the books so far it looks like many of the rank and file just followed orders and did whatever their commanders told them to. At a higher, authoratative level, fights broke out and there were miniature coups in various space craft, titans, admech etc between the traitors and the loyalists. We can see this with stuff like the Dis Irae titan in the first trilogy, as well as the forthcoming novel Mechanicum which concerns a similar 'civil war' taking place on mars.

[Lucifer Fellblade]

The exception to the Chaplains rule is the Word Bearers, whose Chaplains were heavily involved in turning the Legion, and now serve as Dark Apostles.

 

Whether it was just overlooked, Chaplain Charmosian of the Emperor's Children seems to be an example of a Chaplain from another legion turning, he also seems to be the only Chaplain mentioned in the Horus Heresy books so far also (not read Mechanicum yet, but from the title it doesn't sound like it would have any in).

[Captain Kael]

But he got his head chopped off so he is rather a pointless character, only thier to show how amazing lucius is a dueling.

 

Captain Kael ;)

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I've had a llok at some older fluff and it seems the Primarchs did have direct control over the Imperial Army (not the Guard yet) elements in their crusade groups. They weren't part of the Legion structure, but they still answered to the Primarchs. Same deal with the Imperial Navy. Thats why after the HH the Navy, the Guard and the SMs were split up, so even if an entire IG army rebels it can't move off-world.

[insomniacpyro]

If you're trying to add Guard troops to whatever SM's you're placing on the field, I suppose you could have a 3rd person act as the Guard commander, but have the points stack overall with whatever SM troop they are fighting alongside.

 

I too got the impression that Primarch's where in more or less direct control of whatever their expedition comprised of, including Guard troops. However when it came to battle the IG commanding unit on the field had the final decision on how to conduct the battle unless otherwise instructed, i.e the Primarch is on the field with them at the time. While of course the guard commander could disagree with the Primarch (though really why would you need your face caved in) it was undoubtedly assumed the Primarch knew best and thus they did as ordered.