1260 replies to this topic

[bannus]

Since we are no longer constrained by the Chapter Trait system and there is no fluff to support the concept, FA selections will not be limited. For the most part, we will be returning to our roots and pattern more closely off of the original IA article.

[IronFather Tim]

I think you are because the Iron hand took to the dark angles adaptation of the landraider aries

Can you quote a source of this info?

The fluff about the aries on the gw web site is where I read this.
Iron Father Tim

[bannus]

The only one I know about is this one, which doesn't mention the Iron Hands. Is there another?

[IronFather Tim]

I am still looking for it. however the Build of the aries does fit the Iron Hand big time.

I think that the Iron hand would field every Land Raider they can get of every type. With their use of terminator armor at the tac squad level, it is the only transport that will work for them.

ANd Doesn't it fit the idea that your fielding a armor 14 battle tank. rahter then a weaker Support assult tank with 13 nose and 12 sides,
I love the vindicator but the aries beats it hands down every time. and add the Brother Cronus (our verson of him) and you have a kiler MBT for the IH,

As for land raider I think the Iron Hand woudl field every verson there is if they can get it, and according to the land raider hyperion write up the Iron hand fielded it as well (land raider whirlwind)

Iron Father Tim

Edited by IronFather Tim, 07 January 2009 - 04:55 AM.

[bannus]

The Apoc-specific vehicles are designed for Apoc-scale games and go outside of the scope of this project.

However, the Ares can make for a convincing arguement to retain the Crusader/Redeemer in the list - if you can find the link.

We may still include it anyway. I have always felt that the Iron Hands would consider it an abomination and insult to the Omnissiah because it is tampering with an STC. But hey, I'm easy to get along with.....most of the time.

[bannus]

OK. Still trying to fix Bannus to fit with the new rules. The problem is I want to keep at 200 points or under, but a Ven Dread with assault cannon is already at 175. Leaving very little room to add perks.

He retains the chainweapon described in the novel and I upped his WS to 6 to make him "special". As a final touch, I gave him the Orbital Bombardment ability.

How does he look?

VENERABLE DREADNOUGHT BANNUS........200 points

	WS	BS	S	Armor F	Armor S	Armor R	I	A
Bannus	6	5	6	12	12	10	4	2

Unit Composition:

• 1 (Unique)

Unit type:

• Vehicle (Walker)

Wargear:

• Assault Cannon
• Dreadnought chainweapon
• Storm Bolter
• Smoke Launchers
• Searchlight
• Company Standard

Special Rules:

• Venerable
• Orbital Bombardment (see Chapter Master for rules)

Dreadnought Chainweapon: The dreadnought chainweapon is identical in all respects to a DCCW except it rolls 2D6 for armor penetration.

Edited by bannus, 27 January 2009 - 07:55 PM.

[IronVodka]

Greetings all

I thought I'd throw in my thoughts after reading the thread (an excellent thread by the way), to see how they are received.

Bannus, you were wondering how to distinguish MattMatt39's idea of 'normal' Bionics and 'The Flesh is Weak' Bionics. My thought is that normal would be a hand, or a foot, you know something normal. Where 'The Flesh is Weak' would be as much as possible; ie both legs, an arm and half the face, or both arms and a leg, with lots of extra tubes everywhere.

Now i believe i remember somewhere that the Iron Hands were involved in the largest armoured battle since the Heresy. So I thought a rule along the lines of adding 1 more Heavy Support slot in exchange for 1 or 2 fast attack choices.

Anyway, that's my thoughts. This project is looks very good so far and I will defiantly be keeping track.

[bannus]

Bannus, you were wondering how to distinguish MattMatt39's idea of 'normal' Bionics and 'The Flesh is Weak' Bionics. My thought is that normal would be a hand, or a foot, you know something normal. Where 'The Flesh is Weak' would be as much as possible; ie both legs, an arm and half the face, or both arms and a leg, with lots of extra tubes everywhere.

With the current range of models, trying to establish a consistent appearance for WYSIWG purposes might present too many issues as it would still be subjective. It also could cause a lot of existing Iron Hands players to choose to not employ these rules because it would require re-modelling huge portions of their pre-existing army (and I would have to be included in that catagory) - thus limiting the appeal of these rules to new army builders only. Given the low number of IH players to begin with, this seems like a big step in the wrong direction and not very practical. The safest way to ensure no confusion is to make bionics consistent throughout the army. More extensive bionics could be employed on special characters (as they are easy to distinguish) without issue - and might be better reserved for them anyway.

Edited by bannus, 02 January 2009 - 03:39 PM.

[bannus]

In the Codex Leveling Project, there is another idea being examined to represent the Iron Hands bionic attributes.

Rather than giving the army a 6+ Inv. Save, the Sergeants and IC's would gain FNP instead - more closely mirroring their original 3rd edition rules.

Any thoughts on this representation vs. the one we are using now?

[Brother Iron Handed]

As I am waiting on delivery of my models and have got everything ready to make an IH army, I am now a bit worried. I had it all planned out and was gonna follow the codex to the letter, as I have not been playing for a decade.

My main concerns are the fact that I have planned for a Ven Dread as HQ and was going to have my tac squad sgts as terminators. I guess ill just have to field them in the tactics of smurfs for official games and use the codex from here for friendlies.

Could you gurus of iron handedness answer me this though. I had planned to mod a tech marine into an iron father due to the original model being discontinued. What would be the best way to go about that now keeping to both codex's if ya know what I mean.

Thanks

[bannus]

While a bit OT, I used the mail-order Techmarine as my Iron-Father (he is the only "new" Techmarine that has a bare head and a tabbard to distinguish him). A few more details doesn't hurt either.

As an alternative, you could paint your "Iron-Father" black and your Techmarines in red.

[Brother Iron Handed]

sounds like a plan bannus, cheers geeza

[IronFather Tim]

So my Brothers we have had the holidays and it is time to see where we are in the project.

I think the new formation in the white dwarf of the Thunderfire formation looks very iron hand ish,, and we should add it.

Under the apocalips section of the codex,
I would like to see the formations of fury of the acients used by us as well as the line breaker squadron and the armored spearhead.

I think we should also have a recovery formation, of Tech marines and lots of servitors who's mission is combat repair and recovery,
3-4 tech marines , 3-4 razorbacks and in addition to the 5 servitors per tech marine 3-4 squads of 5-10 servitors who's job is battle field salvage and recovery of the Drop pods, and other damaged and destroyed equipment plus the artifact retreaval squad.

artifact retreavel squad 5 tech marines in terminator armor with servo arms deep strike

what do you think,,
Iron Father Tim

[bannus]

The other formations are legal for any Apoc army with the right models - so I don't see any real reason to add them to the Codex.

As for the recovery team. It is a neat idea and could be developed in the Apoc Datasheet forum - where a lot of unique Apoc units get to "cut their teeth".

Go for it.

[Sevano Tomasin]

I like the rec-mech team idea.
Can I suggest that we give the techmarine/MotF in charge an ARV?
Basically, a razorback but with the ability to repair vehicles it's next to. Also the Atlas ARV rules from IA:1 added to it, just so it can tow the objects/vehicles back.

Special mission - rescue damaged dreadnoughts from the field of battle. Basic story, in an earlier battle, a dreadnought was damaged but it was impossible (at the time) to recover it, so now the IH are going to get it back.

I've got another idea for the MotF and the chapter honour guard units. I've used them twice and they seemed balanced. However, I'm still play testing them.
The Apprenta
(30points) {Master of the Forge only, 0-1 per army} (If taken, MotF may not take a bike)
2 standard marines. May buy upto 3 extra marines at 15 points each
Each one may be take a servo arm at 20 points (but doesn't have Blessing rule)
Any marine may take a power weapon (10pts) & replace their bolter with a bolt pistol (free)
2 may replace their bolters with: flamer (6pts), melta gun (10pts)
They must follow the MotF at all times. MotF may not leave them. If MotF is killed, they take a LD test at -2 ld.

S.T

Edited by ServanoTomasin, 07 January 2009 - 12:37 PM.

[bannus]

Those are some cool ideas - only I'm not sure if they fit within the scope of this project.

I'm not sure if we could justify a unit composed exclusively of Techmarines (outside of Apoc anyway) or not - but it sure would look cool.

Any opinions on the bionics idea? Which one should we go with:

1) A 6+ Inv save for most of the army.

2) FNP for ICs and Sergeants.

[Dust01]

Any opinions on the bionics idea? Which one should we go with:

1) A 6+ Inv save for most of the army.

2) FNP for ICs and Sergeants.

Tough call. Feel No Pain seems logical for ICs and Sgts as these guys tend to be loaded with bionics, but can we really ignore the idea that every IH has bionics to a certain degree? Pls do correct me if I'm all wet here, but wasn't the intent behind the bionics trait rule in the last codex to simulate the idea of bionics spread throughout a chapter's units, i.e. sort of "averaging out" the effect of many models with augmetics attached to one degree or another?

If I had to vote, I think the 6+ Inv save reflects this idea the most closely of the two, but I've been wrong before.

[Sevano Tomasin]

I vote for 6+ for most of the army.
- I take that scouts would *not* be getting this?
I just suggest this because it appears that most of the models have bionics in some way. But, I've learnt my IH "knowledge" from few sources - IA3, WD and the few bits of info in the last 2 codex books.

S.T

[NuclearMessiah]

The Apoc-specific vehicles are designed for Apoc-scale games and go outside of the scope of this project.

However, the Ares can make for a convincing arguement to retain the Crusader/Redeemer in the list - if you can find the link.

We may still include it anyway. I have always felt that the Iron Hands would consider it an abomination and insult to the Omnissiah because it is tampering with an STC. But hey, I'm easy to get along with.....most of the time.

I think the IH would accept at least the crusader cause it was officially sanctioned by the mechanicus on Mars. Sadly i can not find mention that the redeemer is sanctioned by Mars, but I would wager if its in heavy use by the Salamanders then it is probably alright (considering their close ties to the mechanicus also). Just my take. Also if we still want to go with insults the Razorback is a very new vehicle for the SMs also and should fall into the same skepticism that the Redeemer and Crusader do if we choose not to use them.

Edited by NuclearMessiah, 10 January 2009 - 07:05 PM.

[bannus]

Looking at the newest fluff, it does seem to imply that the Crusader is actually being produced rather than converted - so that would justify some more consideration for the other Land Raider variants - at least the Crusader anyway.

Any other opinions on this or the representation of bionics?

[bannus]

OK, I added the Crusader and Redeemer back into the list and did not change the bionics.

Any other changes before we look more closely at Special Characters?

[NuclearMessiah]

I got a concern about the Iron Father

Case study: The original Iron Father mini



Ok he has the bolt pistol and the Servo Arm. But what do we do about that Axe. Perhaps the option of a power weapon that can be upgraded to a relic blade. I just thought of this since some peeps are mongers about WYSIWYG.

[Sevano Tomasin]

I think we keep the IF as he is.
In my opinion, the MotF entry has a typo. It says he can have a

power sword
thunder hammer
some other stuff.

However, I have yet to find "power sword" in the rules or the armoury of the current marine codex. I have found power weapon numerous times, and relic blade.
So, imo, the option should be power weapon, not power sword.

I mean, am I completely blind here? Is there a seperate entry for power sword and power axe/weapon in the codex? Or, am I right in that they are the same thing?

@bannus, do you have any specific characters in mind? Aside from your right and honourable self
S.T

[bannus]

I got a concern about the Iron Father

Case study: The original Iron Father mini

Ok he has the bolt pistol and the Servo Arm. But what do we do about that Axe. Perhaps the option of a power weapon that can be upgraded to a relic blade. I just thought of this since some peeps are mongers about WYSIWYG.

The power axe is a power weapon - and so fits within the context of WYSIWYG. If any weapon would be considered a relic blade, it would be the power axes from newer Techmarine minis - definitely two-handed weapons!

@SM - yeah, I saw the same typo - for game purposes, there hasn't been a difference in these weapons since 2nd edition.

Special Characters - we could go about this two ways:

1) Discuss what kinds/types of SCs we would like to see in the Codex (and how many).

2) Discuss some possible (and reasonable) special rules that would be thematic to the army and then determine how to sort them among appropriate SCs.

Other ideas?

[Scion of Ferrus]

Hello

This is my first post here.
My SM Chapter - Scions of Ferrus are IH Successors.
I vote for the 6+ Inv Save and HQ Terminator Squads.
The Iron Father works well!

Cheers Scion of Ferrus.