DemetriiTZ Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 You obviously won't see the same resiliency of the squad members, but the weapon options, I believe, are still the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge4109 Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I, sir, am going to commit this write up to memory, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 well special weapons load out.. you know what never mind no, this tactica doesnt apply to tactical marines the fact they get heavy weapons and no FNP is totally differant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 (Bump. New, army-specific tactics are being added.) :jaw: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genome Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 THANKS!!! Good Stuff Demetrii! I've been using the advantages of a mechanized DG myself with 5th edition! Good generals think alike! but let me ask, are the 2 land raiders really necissary? i usually just take rhinos and a vindicator as my mech. element w/ obligatory prince's in support. I co-incidentally played against Necrons this last monday, a capture and control mission, and you are right on point with how to deal with them. Focus on the warriors force a phase. My mechanized units hit home really hard with 2 plasma, a melta squad, and vindicator in tow. I had one land raider to support and it didn't even get so much as touched. Now i know you favor 2 land raiders but i find it hard to support the points with smaller games,1500, i only used the one because it was a 2 team 4 player game with 2k per person :). Do you really assult with both raiders? are they worth it? Anyways i really enjoyed the read, lots of great observations. I'm looking forward to more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 2 Raiders, for me, is an 1850 standard. I can see 1 Raider functional in a 1500 mission, with Rhinos and a Vindicator (AV13), and Princes. You have plenty of firepower dispersal, so no tank is likely to die too quickly. And yeah, a double-Raider assault, supported by paired Warp Time princes, is my offensive push of choice. I recently handled a 2 x 10 Nob Biker + 2 Warboss Ork army with Death Guard, so I can safely say it's.. effective? :) Glad you liked it! As I've played all kinds of armies, I'll have more anti-army tactics posted soon. Stay tuned, and keep the foes of our Grandfather 'Counting the Seven'! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 ive also been testing out new death guard tactics. heres what im rolling alternative to my twin raider build. 3 dakka preds or 3 vindicators or 3 defilers. all three are supported by rhino squads. they work pretty straight forward, the idea is to thin down enemy lines until you can get them down to a comfortable number, the wonderful thing with all three of these builds is it takes fire away from your rhinos where the winning elements of the game are. with defilers you can also get into melee if you could.. what do you all think hm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I really enjoyed this thread so far. I used to run pure DG in the last codex, but couldnt find a proper build for some reason in the most recent codex, then i stumbled upon your 1850pt list demi, and fell in love with it. for 1500 points im currently running... Prince, mon, wings, warptime dread ccw missile dread ccw missile 7PM 2 flamers champ powerfist 7PM 2 flamers champ powerfist rhino 7pm 2melta rhino 7pm 2melta rhino land raider havoc launcher this list was limited due to what models i have, and the fact that i really like dread's, though i dont play in tournies only with friends, so its not a big deal if i lose as long as i have fun :D thank you for making this article, and thanks for giving me a idea for a list to use :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 No problem. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 i just came to the conclusion that all death guard need are some form of long range support, and the rest of the list tends to be pretty straight forward and cookie cutter, any type of long range support, be it cult havocs, raiders, preds, dreds, vindicators, defilers, or any mix of those and the marines easily take care of themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
da_doktor Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Hey!! Great post!! As a very new convert to WH40K I found it very helpful and informative!! I am curious what do you fear in opposing forces? (i.e. is there any unit/squad that you see an opponent having and think I am in for a hrd time here?) Thanks again!!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 uh... vindicators scare me.. defilers and leman russes.. anything with a high str ordanance template pretty much covers it. other than that not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 I'm unafraid of Ordnance. I'm more worried about a fast skimmer army with large amounts of Lance weapons and AP1 (Mech or Jetbike Eldar), or huge, super-durable, spammed Powerfist squads on wheels (Ork Nob Biker armies). However, there is nothing in 40K I 'fear' anymore. I've beaten it all. I just know the harder nuts to crack, and those are either armies which can keep me at arm's length with speed and firepower, or scare me because they have bigger 'arms' (close-combat power.) Everything in the game has a flaw, however; a good general can defend his own, and exploit his foe's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 ah common dude.. what is scarier then 72 inch battle cannons... they are rightfully feared if you ask me. they are longer than anything i can fight with, and they hit like monsters on my squads. sure there is a way around all of it but like it or not they are still scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 They just don't spook me. IG can fire battle cannons at me all day.. I'm going to roll up with Rhinos and Raiders, smoke up, and vape 'em on the following turns. S8 Ordnance is no issue. Vindicators are a little spookier, but a few lascannon shots, a poor scatter roll, or a smoke launcher can alleviate a problem like that. For 24'' Ordnance, just hang back and range 'em. For Battlecannons, drive a Raider into their face. Railguns, Lances, and Melta are what scare me, and powerfists up close. Pure mechanized DG has little to fear from Ordnance, if you keep moving and stay in cover, or smoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 This definitely has a place in the Librarium. Once you've decided you've finished it, DemetriiTZ, it would be great if you could submit it. Just follow this link and paste it in. Add some coding if it's not too difficult and then we'll go over before publishing it :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Just what I was searching for! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 hey! why arnt i included in this party ='( sad sad... iono demi, i personally think you are over estimating the land raider, i think from what ive seen from your posts that both of us use generally the same list, or something very close. and i dont think that battle cannons are so easy to shrug pal.. i mean rhinos and all are great but even in cover against IG they have so many high power guns that it will ruin your day trying to do that type of tactic. i really do think guard and guard related type armies, such as tyranids and orks are the crux of the death guard, tough and resiliant doesnt stand well next to that type of swarm army. not to say we cant beat them because thats not true what so ever, but its a tough trek. death guard tend to do much better facing off against other elite armies if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Imperial Guard strategies have been posted. I'll add more later. ;) And as for a Battle Cannon on a Land Raider.. Yeah, not so terrifying. Poor BS, a chance to scatter, and even when it does land, a glance is all he can hope for. Lascannons are slightly more worrisome, but not by much; a Raider in cover versus a Guardsman lascannon.. .50 * .16 *.33 *.50 = 1.36% The odds of a penetration landing, and destroying a Raider in cover, in the hands of a Guardsman. Battlecannon's chances of immobilization are worse. Really, lascannons and battlecannons are rarely an issue, at least for me. I've gone through everything from Armoured Company ( Something like 8 - 10 battlecannons.. ) to gunline Heavy Weapon spam Imperial Guard, and I've barely broken stride. Of all of those, Armoured Company is the largest threat, and only because the wrong approach (too much focus on his Lemans) means you lose.. You have to handle them delicately, but they're not all that spooky. On a Rhino, with smoke, we'll assume a Battlecannon lands on top of it. .75 chance to penetrate (due to 2d6 for armor penetration; normally, a 50% chance) * .33 (chance to destroy) * .50 (chance for smoke). You end up with a 12.375% chance for a bullseye Battle Cannon shot to destroy a smoked Rhino. These are very, very slim odds. They become even more slim when you realize the bullseye only happens 33% of the time. So.. 4.1% chance, rounded up, assuming scatter carries his hole on the blast marker away from the hull. Either way, it's not something our Guardsman (if he's smart) is going to count on. Finally.. I personally have never had a problem with any sort of horde army; I played Tyranids for a long time, and I know how they work, so I know precisely what to do, and what each of their units are designed to do. We have an abundance of Guardsmen where I live, so I get a lot of games in against a variety of their lists, also.. and Orks.. Well, Orks are more intimidating than both Tyranids and Guardsmen, and again.. 7 Death Guard with a powerfist and a pair of flamers will demolish 30 Orks on a charge. 30 Orks with a powerfist will not demolish 7 Plague Marines. The numbers scare a lot of people, and by that, I mean the number of bodies on the table. The numbers also make your foe overconfident, however, and the numbers a lot of players on both sides never look into are the statistics. Statistics are the only thing you can reliably plan for. I stopped being scared of Battle Cannons when I mechanized. There's no more 'Vehicle Annihilated, Everyone Dies' rule anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 haha im mech too but im still scared of guns just because there is always more than just that battle cannon on the field when you are playing against guard you should know that, and there is always more than one cannon and considering the ammount of points we are pouring out for basic troops we are gravely under point.. er.... trooped you know what i mean we dont have as many bodies on the field. haha iono i would love to get a game vs you goin hahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Sounds like it would be fun! :) Yeah, Guard have a few guns, but cover saves and removal of vehicle death on a 4 for a Penetrate really changed the game by a huge amount. On top of that, Guardsmen have garbage for ballistic skill.. Really, the scariest weapon in their army is still a Melta in the hands of a Storm Trooper, for me. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 i would worry more about 5 man serafin squads with melta pistols , drop vets with meltas as a LR rush meta [the banne of many IG armies] and those cyclop mini mine tanks . how I hate them outside KP missions . + its not only being destroyed that is the problem , immoblised is a problem too , because it breaks up the force and the pure DG army doesnt have lash to help there . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemetriiTZ Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 Yep. Deepstriking suicide melta is a much bigger threat than battlecannons and lascannons. Serafins are a real pain. Demo Charge dropsquads, also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkiraCho Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 which brings me back to why battle cannons are a problem, due to the fact we only have 2 LRs and 2 rhinos on the field, we are looking at a lot of punishment coming our way in terms of anti tank, maybe they arnt killing your raiders, but immobolizing or otherwise holding them back is doing a world of hurt, even with cover on our side the average guardsmen heavy weapon still has 50% chance to hit. and lots of guardsmen players take heavy weapons teams with lazcannons and sentinels with laz cannons hiding in cover. if they immobolized our rhinos we are walking, if we are walking we are taking shots from battle cannons, and if you take 2 russes and put them at opposite sides of the table and a demolisher in the center of the table, you are FORCED as death guard to only deal with one side, face it we are a focus style army, so here we are attacking one side of the table, where ever we go the demolisher will move away from while shooting at us the whole way while the other battle cannon makes a mess of us, their laz cannons also peppering us til one gets lucky. and they very often do. then we will get bombarded. the only counter i have for that is dual flight princes, but even they are not invinvible. and yeah jeske is right breaking up the force is the problem we are facing not the destroyed tanks. but being broken up AND weather battlecannons. we dont have the speed or THAT kind of durability as i said the only counter i have made for this strat is 2 flight demons deployed completely away from your army on the other side, and they have one goal to go right for that tank and then tie up some combat, keep them out of LOS and in cover as much as possible. but its a tough journy. haha.. hmm are you at all in SoCal demi?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neves Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Well I must agree on the not fearing battlecanons if you're mechanized and heavily agree on the small stormtrooper with melta's squads. My regular IG player fields two infiltrating units of 5 with 2 special weapons on both and they sting. Do most of you use the refused flank when Rhino Rushing? I've lately started using it with my Crimson Fists and to certain succes. I still have to fully mechanize my DG so haven't been able to use it with them, but I believe the effect is about the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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